starting from scratch ???

[mariebx19]

I have a highland x welsh x cob-domino who is 4 yo.i bought him at 3.in the time i have had him he has:
.bolted-under saddle and on ground
.bit while being tacked up
.kicked while being groomed
.reared under saddle
.bucked
.dragged me when leading and kicked me to the ground because he kicked while bolting away from me
.refused to move forward under saddle and on ground
.wont stand nice when tied up
.pulls back and rears when loading
.pulls back or bolts forward when trying to wash him

because of his behaviour i have had vets in and people at my yard check him for soreness/lameness,and i was always told he as ok and it was JUST his manners,but i still had a feeling something was wrong so i mostly just done groundwork wth him and occasionly light riding-WHEN HE MOVED FORWARD.he is my first horse and i had never dealt with a horse with any of these issues-when i bought him i was told he was 100% fine in all ways.the first few months i was actually scared to handle him (but had no choice as i dont have a horsey family and the first yard i was at wasnt willing to help) i have been to 4 different yards since and people that have helped me out have treated him badly and domino just gets worse-(one was a horse trainer and she told me she had a horse like domino and she beat it up in its stable and it changed since then).anyway at the start of december i got an equine massage therapist out to see him and straight away they found a problem-he had 11 or more sore muscle knots/spasms,so i decided to just turn him away.i also recentlyfound out he was being ridden at 2 and jumpng at 2 or 3 and had been to 3 or 4 different homes before i got him.he will be brought back into work around aprl/may by myself.i will be starting from scratch,so i am just looking for advise on everything he should be taught ? any trainers/methods you recommend ? is clicker traing a good way to teach your horse ? and the main problem-how to get a horse good at leading (stop him bolting/pulling from you

 

[mariebx19]

i forgot to mention,he doesnt-bite,kick,rear or buck anymore-the main problems now are the leading and not moving forward.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

If you don't like blunt I suggest you don't read further. There are no books, DVD's, or magic fixes for what you've got going on here.

Don't talk about how he had 4 different homes before you bought him when your moving him from pillar to post in search of free help. Then people aren't being nice to your horse.

The horse needs professional help. He needs consistent confident handling for as long as it takes to get over all that's happened to him by age 4. He could also use a vet exam instead of a massage therapist. But I get the feeling the answer will be you can't afford it. Find grass livery until you can save for proper help.

That is the best suggestion. Your horse needs a confident consistent person in his life to help him. He's been let down at every angle.

Terri

 

[Morgan123]

Hello, I am just replying becuase I had to start my horse from scratch again too. But I do agree wiht Equilibrium above insofar as you can't expect to see changes if you keep moving him!! But maybe you've been moving him as the yards aren't suitable - in which case, are you now somewhere you are settled? Because you can't really hope to mvoe forward until you both decide to settle somewhere. He really needs consistency. It sounds like you hvae come some way to changing his behaviour already as he has stopped bucking, kicking etc.

How long have you turned him away for, and have you continued to get the massage therapist to treat him? If not, do.

So rules s far:

settle at one yard (ideally a nice quiet one)
Because he needs consistency have a routine
Get the massage therapist back

I gave mine six months off just to get used to eachother. I also did find that clicker training was exceptionally useful. HOWEVER my horse was nervous, and it's not clear from your post whether your horse is being bolshy or nervous? If it's bolshiness, it probably arises from nervousness anyway, but still clicker training would not be a good idea unless you're pretty experiences at it, since it's also very easy to reward bad behaviour when you think you're rewarding good behaviour. There's loads of useful informaiton on the internet about how to try clicker training, so have a read. Ben Hart;s book is excellent.

You said he is your first horse and that you have never dealt with a horse with these issues. Are you a novice rider? How did you end up wiht a three year old?! If you have an instructor who you trust then I would definitely recommend that you get them to help you, or else that you find someone that can help. Again you need to be really consistent so try adn find out about someone first, maybe hvae a lesson on another horse with them before you take them to him, etc.

Anyway don't worry, all these thigns can be sorted - but it's going to take time, consistency, patience.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Here is something to remember, and I say this to you as someone who starts horses for a living. I can't ride Grand Prix anything . I can't do my horses own teeth, or feet, or know every little ailment that could affect horses so I have vets.

It's very much the same with starting young horses. It's a skill too but yet people seem to think its not really. So I get upset when I see people looking for some quick fix to a very large problem. You don't know your horse won't buck or rear anymore because he won't go forward at all. And he will still tank off when being led. He's very defensive and who can blame him. He's only 4 and been through the ringer. So please if you want your horse to have the fairytail ending than do right by him. Send him to someone who can help both of you.

Terri

 

[rowy]

I don't really agree with getting the vet back out as she already said that she had got one out and he didn't find anything.

Did the massage therapist suggest another treatment? As usually if their backs are that bad they need another treatment not long after. Or possibly get a physio out as they will be able to look at much more than just the muscle.

Poor boy sounds like he has been through the mill and it sounds like you really want to do right by him I would suggest possibly sending him to someone you know and trust to back him slowly as from experience, it's really good to see how someone else backs a horse, particularly if you are inexperienced, as you learn so much! Try to find someone close to you so you can watch them work with him everyday or at least a few times a week.
It takes a lot of patience but I'm sure you will get there in the end.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

I question vet at all having visited. First off any vet could have told her what the massage therapist did. Secondly never in the same sentence do I say "I've had vets and people in the yard look for lamness". Um, ya. When you see these posts over and over again not hard to read between the lines.

Terri

 

[kirstykate]

Echo everything Terri has said, for god sake get someone to help who know what they are doing. Its very seldom you get a bad horse, the problem comes for poor starting.

 

[kc100]

I think he needs to be sent away, probably for an extensive length of time, to a professional yard who specialises in youngsters. As the others have said, how you ended up buying a 3 year old for your first horse is beyond me, I've ridden for 18+ years but never owned, but I wouldnt dream of buying a horse much under the age of 7 or 8 simply because I would have no idea what I was doing with a young horse!

You have well and truly over-horsed yourself here, and the poor boy has had a very bad start to life. The question is can you afford a lot of professional help to get him back on track? You would be foolish to do this alone, and foolish to keep moving yards in the hope you will find other horse owners to help you out. Just because these other people own horses does not make them experts either, you need to get a team of professionals to start working properly with you - a good vet, a physio, this massage person (if you had seen a decent vet they should have told you the same thing as the massage therapist told you), equine dentist and a good farrier. Once you have his care sorted and a team of qualified pro's to make sure he is in the best health possible, then at the very least you need weekly lessons with a good instructor, again someone who is good with youngsters to help get you going.

When you bought him, did you have him vetted? Or did you just take the previous owners word that he was fine? Did you ride him when you went to see him? Surely you would have seen these issues when you went to see the horse? If you had him vetted how did none of this come up?

If you can afford it, then send him away to a professional yard to start him again. If you cant afford it, then at the very least find a good instructor to give you weekly lessons. And buy A LOT of books on youngsters and how to break a youngster, it sounds like he basically needs to start again being completely re-backed. I know this isnt what you want to hear but I just cannot see it being possible for someone who has never owned a horse before to re-back and bring on a problem horse like this. You are going to need every book and DVD under the sun, and to spend a lot of money with this massage person or even better, a physio to get these muscle spasms under control. Turning him away for a few months is unlikely to have cured him, chances are he might be a bit better but he is still going to need further help before you can even think about starting to work him again.

Or the better option for the horse (again not what you want to hear) is to be sold, and only sell him to someone who is VERY experienced with youngsters and can give him a chance at a good life. You wont get much for him, if anything to be honest because of his issues, but at least you wont be able to do any more damage to him either.

Sorry if this is a bit harsh, I do think you want to do right by him but honestly I think trying to re-back a problem youngster with no experience of ever owning a horse is an impossible task, and you are only going to cause more problems for him.

 

[mariebx19]

Equilibrium Ireland
i am not oving him for free help.i have paid everyone that has helped me out.the first one i moved him from was because i wasnt getting help and the lady was hard to get along with,2nd because the lady told me to punch him in the face if he pushed into me (she is the one that fed him,so i wasnt wanting that to happen),3rd because they were selling the yard,4th because domino was scared from the man and reared everytime he was near him (that stopped as soon as i moved yards),and 5th bevause he wasnt allowed turnout for 6 months so the fields were nice for summer and i found whip marks on his side (i didnt ask for help at this oneso nobody should have been near him) and theman that owned it went into dominos stable one day and domino was running round the stable,nearly squashing the emt,the emt asked him to leave and he didnt,then ran out of his stable but i got him straight away-now he is on grass livery at a nice,quiet,friendly yard.i am now confident with him (i wasnt for the first couple of months) but i am now,i think i will have x-rays done after the equine massage therapist has been out to see him again and i will hear what they think.

Morgan123
yeah,we are both happy where we are now.he was turned away on 7th december and will be brought back into work may/june.i had the emt out twice,they got rid of most of it and they advised me to turn him away and have him checked again before i work him and 2 weeks after.and after that (if it has helped) i will probably have them out 3-3 times every year.i will certainly be using clicker training,as i think a target might be useful in getting him to move forward.he is very timid but very friendly (the yard i am at now said he is the friendliest horse she has met).i hve only ridden for 2 years (i am not a novice,but could do with some improvement,so will be having lessons)i know it will take time,but i am willing for it to take as long as he needs,

Equilibrium Ireland
i am not looking for a quick fix,i know it is going to take as long as it needs to,i am going to do it myself at least for 3 months but i have had trainers help and it only makes it worse because the way he is treated and i think he is the type of horse that would work better with trust and communication.if the emt checks him again and he is still sore then i will be getting x-rays (2 vets have checked him before and said there was nothng) and even if it is nothing 'fixable' i will still be keeping him and he can just be a 'bid' pet.

rowy
yeah i have to see them again before working him and 2 weeks after,they said they got rid of most of the knots but some were really that bad,mostly all of his back right side was sore (which is the one he used to try and kick me with).i might try a physio before getting a vet out.i know alot of people who got apparently good horses who tuerned out similar to domino and were trained by themselves even though they had no experiance (and everyone starts somewhere,i will have a coach advising me but i will do the work myself) if there is no chnge in a few months i will see what else can be done,thanks.

Equilibrium Ireland
i HAVE ha the vet out (2 different ones) i have the bill to prove it-would you like me to scan and email it to you the first one did feel some inflammation on his back right leg (after a while of looking) and was given 3 weeks box rest and bute,im sure after that he was better,then a few months later he changed again.the 2nd one didnt find anything.what could cause that in his back right leg,but the horse has no sign of lameness/soreness ???

kc100
it is not just 'people from yards' i had help from - one person came in who trained horses,and 2 of the yard owners-1 trained young horses and the other trained racing/school horses so it isnt just anyone i am getting help from-i just dont agree with bullying and using force by punching/kicking/twitching horses.no i didnt have him vetted(but while i have had him he has been seen by 2 vets-so woulld anything have been noticed anyway) i got the old owner to ride him and then i did-looking back now i can see the signs-they were weary to let me lead him and barely moved away from me when i was on him,he did pull a bit but i was just assuming it was to get back into the trailer or ecause it was a new place.and im sorry but there is no way i am EVER going to sell him,he is really happy with me and too many people have given up on him and i am not exactly damaging him,i am doing everything i can to help him apart from send him to a trainer who is going to abuse him.i am going to get his pain fixed-first get in a physio,the emt because they know where he was sore and they can tell if that has fixed,if there is till soreness the the x-rays and train him myself-the yard i am at now trains horses with any type of behaviour so i will give him 3 months and if there is no change i will get them to help.

 

[kc100]

I'm just very sad for your horse. I know your heart is in the right place and you think that because he's had a bad past you are the best person to help him - but someone with only 2 years of riding experience trying to do a monumental task like this alone is only ever going to damage the horse. It is your naievity that makes you think you can do this and it will work - sorry but you dont have a clue.

NO-ONE buys a horse without a vetting, NO-ONE buys a horse without riding it, NO-ONE believes that someone could be a 'trainer' if they advocate punching horses, NO-ONE would move to a yard without asking about turnout first.....I am honestly astounded by this post. And that takes a lot with me!

There is no advice that can help you, because you are (from the sounds of this) beyond help. You are going to carry on regardless with your own little plan, just because you think you can do it. Sending him away to a professional yard would not mean he is going to be abused, in fact it would prevent him from any further abuse. There are many good professionals who break horses (i.e. back youngsters, thats what I mean by 'break'), and they have gentle and patient methods.

This horse has been abused by various people whilst in your care, you have to accept that whilst he has been with you, you have not looked after him very well. So it can only get better by sending him away to a kind, gentle and professional person who deals with youngsters for a living. I dont mean he has to go away for ever, just a few months while they sort out his behaviour and start his ridden work properly. Not with a novice rider 'having a go'.

I am sorry to have to say these things to you, I know its not nice but it upsets me more to know that this horse has been abused whilst in your care, and now you, someone with no clue about anything equine, is trying to re-start this horse again. He is on the verge of being ruined for life and I'm sorry but no rider with only 2 years experience is going to do this sucessfully, so it seems you will be the one to ruin him and then there is only going to be 1 end for this poor horse.

I hope at the very least you can get a trainer to work with you from the start, if you even attempt 3 months of doing it alone he will be ruined by then. From day 1 if you had a trainer supervising everything you do then perhaps he stands a small chance.

 

[rachyblue]

All I can say is wow.

And not at the OP, at some of the "helpful" posts..

I'm sorry but people make mistakes when they buy horses. I bought a horse when I was a teen without having it vetted (luckily for me it turned out ok) and I'm sure I can't be the only other person in the world to have done so! How rude to assume that someone doesn't have the money to care for their horse just because they are a novice.

She has at least recognised there is a problem, which is more than a lot of people do! Turning him away to get to know each other and give him a rest was probably the best thing to do.

However OP, I am going to suggest that you get an experienced professional in to help you. I have owned my own horses for over 20 years, but I still sent my 3 year old away to be backed, as it really is a specialist job, especially if they have issues.

There are people around who will come to you to do so that you can be involved (and you will learn a lot in the process) and less stress for him. If you want to PM me with where you are I can point you in the direction of some suitable people.

Obviously it goes without saying you should get him looked over by a vet and possibly a physio and/ or saddle fitter before he does any work. I also would have his teeth looked at, as a baby his mouth will be going through a lot of changes at the moment and if he is uncomfortable here this would also stop him being forward.

You recognise there is a problem and you want to help him - that's the first step.

 

[TarrSteps]

As above. Well said.

 

[mariebx19]

thank you both,yeah i am willing to get someone in to help me and domino through the training,i just could not send him away,because i dont know how he is being treated,his teeth are due to be done so i think i will do that asap,i didnt use the saddle most of the time but will need to get a good fitting one,the first thing i will do is physio/massager/vet/teeth and then get a trainer in to help us,thanks

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Really, well I get the horses that people screw up. So I'm sorry I have a different view altogether. I have no doubt she loves her horse, but the best thing for him is a consistent professional to help her and the horse. Not once in awhile and not reading up on clicker training and other various methods. Hands on at least a few times a week.

Sugar coating and offering suggestions on the Internet isn't going to sort the pony.

Terri

 

[TableDancer]

All I can say is wow.

And not at the OP, at some of the "helpful" posts..

I'm sorry but people make mistakes when they buy horses. I bought a horse when I was a teen without having it vetted (luckily for me it turned out ok) and I'm sure I can't be the only other person in the world to have done so! How rude to assume that someone doesn't have the money to care for their horse just because they are a novice.

She has at least recognised there is a problem, which is more than a lot of people do! Turning him away to get to know each other and give him a rest was probably the best thing to do.

However OP, I am going to suggest that you get an experienced professional in to help you. I have owned my own horses for over 20 years, but I still sent my 3 year old away to be backed, as it really is a specialist job, especially if they have issues.

There are people around who will come to you to do so that you can be involved (and you will learn a lot in the process) and less stress for him. If you want to PM me with where you are I can point you in the direction of some suitable people.

Obviously it goes without saying you should get him looked over by a vet and possibly a physio and/ or saddle fitter before he does any work. I also would have his teeth looked at, as a baby his mouth will be going through a lot of changes at the moment and if he is uncomfortable here this would also stop him being forward.

You recognise there is a problem and you want to help him - that's the first step.

Great post The key thing is getting help from the right person right from the start - because of your lack of experience, OP, it does sound like you have involved some of the wrong sort of people - the horse world is FULL of self-proclaimed trainers and experts, but if they are resorting to violence, you need to give them a wide berth, as you yourself have deduced. However, there are also lots of genuine horsemen/women who will help you restart your horse in a kind, fair way, so he can move forward with his education. So please, please don't try to do it all on your own, or just using books, find the right person to work with, who will explain to you and train you, along with your young horse. You will both benefit, and under the right supervision, you can make a success story of this If you need help sourcing the right person, lots of us on here may be able to point you in the right direction: either post on the thread, or PM someone for advice, saying where you live.

The very best of luck to you and your youngster.

 

[mariebx19]

here is a video of omino if you could have a look and see where the soreness/lameness is and what could be causing it ???

http://youtu.be/ndZ7Q_crPzY

here are some pictures BEFORE i got him-he qould have been 2 or 3

here he is in the time i have had him

 

[mariebx19]

 

[TableDancer]

Marie, he is properly cute I and I see why you love him, but you cannot expect people on an internet forum to diagonse soreness/lameness on a video - anyone who does is reckless, ignorant or mad. If you think he is hurting, get a vet out, if you think he needs training, get some sympathetic, knowledgeable help.

 

[mariebx19]

thank you and i am not exactly asking you to dignose,i am looking for advise on what area it could be as vets have said nothing and if it does just look like muscle pain or something more serious like a fracture or tear or something.before he is brought back into work he will be seen by physio/equine massage/vet for x-rays.so all i am looking for until then is advise

 

[TrasaM]

Marie. I've been riding two years and I am very much a novice still.
Anyhow you are where you are. You have taken on a big challenge but you sound very committed to sorting it out which will happen with the right sort of support and training for you both. My friend took on a similar case for her first horse through being badly advised with similar instructions issued as to how to deal with him (stick ) but a year on he's a nicer chap most of the time anyhow. We've made progress with him through being consistent and firm but always fair and kind. He's now almost 6 but we are still dealing with a lot of teenage type behaviours from him. Good luck.

 

[mariebx19]

thank you.and well done for sticking at it with your/your friends horse.yeah i am definately commited i would never give up on him,thats exactly how i am going to be with domino-firm but fair and i know it will take as long as he needs but i plan to have him for the rest of his life so to me it doesnt matter how long he takes,i will definately have help/advise from a trainer,thanks

 

[TarrSteps]

No one can tell you if/where he hurts from photos. And anyone who says they can is either ignorant or lying. Please don't act on that sort of information.

Get a good advisor. Ask on here for reputable trainers in your area, call a few up and have a chat about your situation. Anyone good will be able to help you not only with the training, but will also be a source of guidance in other areas of care. They should not replace specialist help, but they should be able to assist you in coordinating and assessing it.

A few people have spoken harshly to you, but I think they do it with the best will in the world. You are standing at a bit of a crossroad with your very cute little horse, whom you clearly love. But love is not enough. It is no substitute for knowledge.

You have chosen to undertake this task of educating this young horse without knowing much about the task. But here you are, so go forward with care and sense.

Yes, people have to start somewhere and everyone will make mistakes. But every single one of those mistakes costs the horse, sometimes permanently. You do not want that for Domino, do you? Those of us who work with young horses did NOT gain our knowledge by making random mistakes on unsuspecting innocent horses. We learned by being mentored and trained by skilled teachers. I have spent time and money equivalent to a university education learning about how to make nice horses. Please don't devalue that by saying you will figure it out all on your own, because you will not.

Find someone good to help you. Someone who has Domino's - and your - best interests at heart and can make him the best pony he can be. Please don't let your pride stand in the way of doing what's best for one you love. This is one of the big lessons of life and you have a chance to be a better person than many people - people much older than you - become.

 

[mariebx19]

yeah i will have a trainer for advise along the way but i will be doing the actual work myself,and trust me it has nothing to do with pride i just dont trust other people with my pets as basically everyone that has got involved with domino has treated him badly in some way and i do know what has to be done in order to break in a youngster,and you can actually tell with a horses conformation if it is injured but i meant the video.

 

[dominobrown]

yeah i will have a trainer for advise along the way but i will be doing the actual work myself,and trust me it has nothing to do with pride i just dont trust other people with my pets as basically everyone that has got involved with domino has treated him badly in some way and i do know what has to be done in order to break in a youngster,and you can actually tell with a horses conformation if it is injured but i meant the video.

I am sorry, and I am trying to put this in the politest possible way, but with this attitude you probably will only make things worse for the horse, or at best stay the same.
It is very smug of you to think that you are the only one capable of looking after your horse, as a lot of horse trainers are probably better than you.
You can't do this on your own, you need proper help, and I understand you love your pony, but he would also prefer to be happy. A horse who does those things is not happy.
As another poster mentioned training a horse cannot simply be learnt in a few sessions. Maybe you need to put in the effort to find a good trainer, and maybe send your horse away for training. You could ask for recommendations on here.
At the end of the day you need to do what is best for the horse.

 

[TarrSteps]

yeah i will have a trainer for advise along the way but i will be doing the actual work myself,and trust me it has nothing to do with pride i just dont trust other people with my pets as basically everyone that has got involved with domino has treated him badly in some way and i do know what has to be done in order to break in a youngster,and you can actually tell with a horses conformation if it is injured but i meant the video.

Well, then you're all good then.

Re photos and lameness. . .there are aspects of conformation that can predispose a horse to certain weaknesses - which does not necessarily mean there IS a problem - and occasionally you can discern a bit through stance or carriage, but if it was as simple as looking at photos then we'd just send one through to the vet and be done with it. You mention the possibility of a neck fracture. . .how would anyone diagnose that by looking? I've worked with quite a few horses with neck injuries and frankly, they can be tough to diagnose with the horse standing in front of you! Any responsible adult who gave you serious horse health advice on the back of a few random photos on the Internet should frankly be shot. As to the video, you have not supported it for mobile platforms so hey ho, I'll never know.

Good luck with him, he looks cute.

 

[TrasaM]

Whilst there are some parallels between this thread and the recent Dream Pony thread by Emma91 I do get the impression that Marie is at least trying to do the right thing. Some good advice has been given but the tone has been a bit harsh in some. There were lots of criticisms posted on the dream pony thread about how posters had scared the poster away with their comments. I don't know whether this is the case because I never got the impression that Emma91 would take heed to what she was being advised to do.
I have some sympathy for OP because I've got a friend who was in a similar situation. There were times when I used to watch her ride and just wanted to pull her off the horse and slap her because I could see where it was going. But it was a case of deep breaths and trying to say calmly 'please stop doing that'.
And then getting the message through to her by her seeing that he could be a good boy when he was ridden nicely but firmly. And that he is not a bad horse just confused and green.
Getting anywhere with a horse like this is about being clear in what you are asking it to do and being consistent but firm. but you do have to know what you are doing or you risk just teaching the horse bad habits and letting it know that it is powerful and can get away with using his strength against you. I'm happy for you to pm me for support Marie but with regards to ground work etc you need a reliable trainer who shares your ideas about where you want to get to with your horse. And it sounds from what you've written that you do have someone who can help you.
PS. Our chap also had physical issues. Stifle and back plus saddle wasn't right so some of his reactions were down to pain initially but then he learnt that he could remove the annoyance from his back when he wished so each time he succeeded he got a bit more powerful. This is what people are trying to tell you. Get it wrong and you have a whole set of new problems

 

[mariebx19]

well when people keep coming at me i am going to defend myself,and i dont think i am the only one capable but i do think the way i will do it ,with alot of trust and groundwork and the RIGHT sort of communication that is what will be what could change him into a good little horse and my horse IS happy,he is probably still a little sore,so would any horse that was badly ridden,overbent at 2 or 3,and he thinks too much aboout food which is why he pulls when leading which is why i think he will benefit ffrom clicker training,and obviously when he wasnt on turnout he was worse but when he has turnout he is so good-i used to have to lead him on a country road for 5-10 minutes to get to his field,an really i would say i am thinking about my horse which is the reason i will not be sending him away,i will be willing to get someone in but i am not going to send my horse away.

 

[TrasaM]

Good for you. follow your instinct and there's no need to send him away when you can get someone to come to you and where he is in a familiar environment and relaxed he's more likely to play nicely.
Our cob also liked to graze and breaking that habit was one of my major achievements with him. He still tries it on though. He sees green and all other thoughts go out if his head. Food..yummy. Cobs eh

 

[EstherYoung]

1) Nice pony.

2) No-one is going to be able to give you an answer from a youtube video. Unless the horse is hopping (which he is not), if you look at any video for long enough you'll see something.

3) Muscle knots are not a cause. Everyone has them. Muscles function better without them, of course, but the first time anyone gets 'done' there will be several. They may or may not have been the issue, and they may or may not be indicative of another problem - if they come straight back within a week of being freed off then you may need to ask some more questions. My youngster had a few after he was backed - he wasn't in pain, it was just a result of him having to use muscles he hadn't used before. Plus up till 6yo they are growing all the time so those muscles are getting stretched which can cause soreness.

4) He's a baby and (with the greatest of respect) so are you. The old saying 'green plus green equals black and blue' is a true one, unless you can find a really good mentor and trainer who you trust.

I do know where you're coming from. When we first bought our arab he was an unbroken, neglected 4yo stallion and we had next to no experience - about as wrong as you can get on paper. I'll be the first to admit we made mistakes. And people are horrid - rather than help they will b*tch and gossip and set you up to fail. What did we do? We found a VERY good instructor who worked with us not against us, and then another very good instructor after her. We trained for our NPS exams and got experience with as many different horses as we could. And I'll tell you what, that horse is now 27yo and we've been all round the country together. He's my soulmate. He has been a saint to put up with me at times but we made it through. You can too but you will need someone on the ground that you can trust who can work with you to teach you how to give this horse calm, consistent handling. YOU CANNOT DO THIS ALONE. I've got another babypony now (rising 4 this year) and so I'm starting from scratch again too, and I've still got a back up team behind me who are worth their weight in gold.

Where are you in the country? Maybe one of us can recommend someone?