Still too many people without High Viz

pennyturner said:
So he rides without a hat. Big deal. He's taking a marginal incremental risk. His decision. How about if he gets a new, spooky nutter of a horse. Should he be allowed to ride it? He'd probably put a hat on, so perhaps that's OK.

Occasionally it might be I'm not wearing a hat - for example a while ago when I lent mine to a child who'd forgot theirs rather than abandon the ride. Risk is relative, and sometimes it's OK to choose the wind in your hair.
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Does it get tiring being deliberately controversial??

That's a ridiculous argument anyway - everything carries some risk but we each have a responsibility to ourselves and those who depend on us (or on whom we may depend...) to minimise risks where we can and make sensible decisions about our own safety and the safety of those in our care. No one is expected to be H&S conscious all the time but arguing against taking sensible precautions where it's so flippin easy is just daft.
 
pennyturner said:
So he rides without a hat. Big deal. He's taking a marginal incremental risk. His decision. How about if he gets a new, spooky nutter of a horse. Should he be allowed to ride it? He'd probably put a hat on, so perhaps that's OK.

Occasionally it might be I'm not wearing a hat - for example a while ago when I lent mine to a child who'd forgot theirs rather than abandon the ride. Risk is relative, and sometimes it's OK to choose the wind in your hair.
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So there is no end to your stupidity??

1: You gave an adult fitting hat to a child. That'll obviously fit well.
2: If your horse did spook and you came off, you're a lot more likely to be knocked out on the tarmac without your hat. That's really what a child wants to see; either you dead in the road or the childs pony and your horse bolting off as you're unconscious in the road.

I really do think you're a troll poster, a total moron or so self-certain of your idiotic beliefs that you believe nothing untoward will happen to you.

I sincerely hope that nothing bad happens to your horse
 
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Aarrghimpossiblepony said:
It's not that attitude that bothers me, it's a piss poor excuse but people will always try and make excuses.

It's the attitude displayed here that if you do everything you can, accidents don't happen.
And somehow what a person does, affects what happens to them so there are deserving victims and not so deserving victims.

And as long as that attitude is around, people will carry on killing people with their cars and getting little more than a few years prison and a slightly longer suspension.

It feeds into the gestault that everything is somebody else's fault.
We see it every single day in the newspapers/courts.

One wants to wear high vis fine, but it ends there.
Somebody else doing different is no reflection on you or them whatsoever. Too might self righteous indignation on display.
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Thank you.
 
Wearing Hi Viz is just plain commonsense. Most of us don't have the option of only riding off road and there's still plenty of reasons why you should still wear it if you do. I hope some riders who are not contributing to this thread start to wear HV as a result of reading the comments here.
 
I can't remember the last time I saw somebody else wearing hi-vis on the roads.

What I find most amusing is friends that ride out with me wearing hi-vis yet ride out with others (who don't wear hi-vis) without. They clearly don't feel daft wearing it when I'm there as I'm decked out like a Christmas tree. I don't preach about it, but having been hit by a car whilst riding on a bright summers day, I can't see why you wouldn't. I'd only opted for fluorescent front boots on the horse that day, maybe if I hadn't been being so fashion conscious the car driver would have seen us earlier and had time to stop. Yes, he was going too fast, but now I'm a driver myself I can see how we'd have disappeared for a couple of seconds in the dazzling sunlight.

Luckily, on that occasion my horse and I were ok. But the aftermath wasn't good.

We're responsible for not only our safety but that of our horse and of other road users. If hi-vis gives a car driver three extra seconds to hit the brakes, not damage my horse, not damage me and not have them live with the guilt of injuring/killing somebody then I don't care looking "awful". Hell, I'd wear a chicken costume if that's what it took!
 
Aarrghimpossiblepony said:
It's the attitude displayed here that if you do everything you can, accidents don't happen.
And somehow what a person does, affects what happens to them so there are deserving victims and not so deserving victims.

And as long as that attitude is around, people will carry on killing people with their cars and getting little more than a few years prison and a slightly longer suspension.

It feeds into the gestault that everything is somebody else's fault.
We see it every single day in the newspapers/courts.

.
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But no one said it would stop accidents!! It won't! It reduces risk - that's not the same as saying it prevents all accidents.
And victims are victims but we can each choose to try and minimise the risk of being a victim in myriad small ways. So some people will put themselves at greater risk than others - it's not about being "deserving", that's a totally different thing.
 
Is the rudeness of many posters on this thread normal, or related to the topic?

For the record:
Hi Viz has its place. I wouldn't ride in poor light without it.
Hats are useful too, but not compulsory. I usually ride in one.
If you fall off when your horse spooks, you should probably wear a hat.
If your child's pony bolts, you should probably get a new pony.
 
pennyturner said:
Is the rudeness of many posters on this thread normal, or related to the topic?

For the record:
Hi Viz has its place. I wouldn't ride in poor light without it.
Hats are useful too, but not compulsory. I usually ride in one.
If you fall off when your horse spooks, you should probably wear a hat.
If your child's pony bolts, you should probably get a new pony.
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Sounds fair enough.

Disclaimer. I use hi viz and wear a hat but personally the biggest danger of not wearing hi viz, is found amongst teenagers walking to school on dark winter mornings dressed in black. I'd like to see the wearing of hi viz for school children compulsory.

I'd also like to see better hi viz for riders. Cyclists and runners have different requirements in sports wear to riders. How many equestrian jackets designed for the winter have an option of hi viz colours with reflective strips ?
What are Musto, Horseware, Toggi and the others thinking of ?
 
JennyConnor said:
So there is no end to your stupidity??

1: You gave an adult fitting hat to a child. That'll obviously fit well.
2: If your horse did spook and you came off, you're a lot more likely to be knocked out on the tarmac without your hat. That's really what a child wants to see; either you dead in the road or the childs pony and your horse bolting off as you're unconscious in the road.

I really do think you're a troll poster, a total moron or so self-certain of your idiotic beliefs that you believe nothing untoward will happen to you.

I sincerely hope that nothing bad happens to your horse
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Hang on a mo no you don't know that the hat did not fit the child I did not pay vat on some of my hats because I take a child size in some brands.
 
horserider said:
Sounds fair enough.

Disclaimer. I use hi viz and wear a hat but personally the biggest danger of not wearing hi viz, is found amongst teenagers walking to school on dark winter mornings dressed in black. I'd like to see the wearing of hi viz for school children compulsory.

I'd also like to see better hi viz for riders. Cyclists and runners have different requirements in sports wear to riders. How many equestrian jackets designed for the winter have an option of hi viz colours with reflective strips ?
What are Musto, Horseware, Toggi and the others thinking of ?
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It amazes me the musto etc and the like don't make good hi viz jackets , and in some ways it's worse in summer to find nice lightweight stuff why can't you buy a good lightweight riding cut waistcoat with a zipped pocket for your keys and somewhere for your iPhone , well made in decent fabric with the styling the the good brands do so well.I would buy one like a shot.
 
Goldenstar said:
Hang on a mo no you don't know that the hat did not fit the child I did not pay vat on some of my hats because I take a child size in some brands.
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But if it has been worn by an adult as she quoted 'I usually ride in one' This strongly suggests that it will have moulded (like any hat does) to the adults head shape which will not be the same as a developing child.

One of the liveries on my yard has the same hat with the same sizing as me. However, we know when we get the hats mixed up and her's falls over my eyebrows and mine is a little tight on her forehead.
 
JennyConnor said:
But if it has been worn by an adult as she quoted 'I usually ride in one' This strongly suggests that it will have moulded (like any hat does) to the adults head shape which will not be the same as a developing child.

One of the liveries on my yard has the same hat with the same sizing as me. However, we know when we get the hats mixed up and her's falls over my eyebrows and mine is a little tight on her forehead.
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But you don't know that the hat did not fit my nephew fits my hats perfectly ATM won't for long though he's going to big.
 
If its pointless horse riders wearing hi viz then surely it's pointless anyone wearing it? Motorway workers they don't need hi viz the car drivers should be going slower, railway workers they don't need hi viz the train drivers should be more careful.
 
weebarney said:
If its pointless horse riders wearing hi viz then surely it's pointless anyone wearing it? Motorway workers they don't need hi viz the car drivers should be going slower, railway workers they don't need hi viz the train drivers should be more careful.
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Who said it was pointless to wear hi viz ?
Thinking about the colour orange is not good to wear in autumn it tones to the back ground colour .
 
Goldenstar said:
Hang on a mo no you don't know that the hat did not fit the child I did not pay vat on some of my hats because I take a child size in some brands.
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Ah Goldenstar, I should be so lucky. My kids have HUGE heads. Six of them, plus me means lots of hats. Some of the modern ones are adjustable, and add to this the couple of wooly hats kicking around in the boot of the car (extra padding if needed) means if we're missing one, a quick reshuffle gets everyone suitably hatted.

Doesn't happen often, but believe me, if you've got half a dozen kids ready, caught and tacked up 7 horses and remembered everything else - you make do.

So if you see a ride where everyone's girths are just slightly too loose, and mum is riding bareback, one of the kids has forgotten a girth...
 
weebarney said:
If its pointless horse riders wearing hi viz then surely it's pointless anyone wearing it? Motorway workers they don't need hi viz the car drivers should be going slower, railway workers they don't need hi viz the train drivers should be more careful.
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In both those instances the people are operating/working where people are not expected to be.

What seems to me to be missing in this argument is anger that car drivers have got to the point attitude wise where other than themselves, nothing and nobody is going to be on the road.

It's not so much about high vis, it's the resigned acceptance that drivers can behave like selfish idiots. In fact it's so expected, people have to make sure they don't get in their way. People on horses/bicyles, children going to school, workers, ect., everybody has to live and put up with car drivers behaving like selfish b'stards.

Instead of saying "you must be able to be seen clearly" I would much prefer people saying "there is always something/somebody on the road, it doesn't belong to car drivers".
Car drivers have no right to expect any road to be without any kind of traffic or other users. And so they should drive accordingly.

Massive attitude change is needed, hurt somebody in a car, you never drive again.
Millions manage to drive their whole lives without hurting anybody.
Why should we pander to and make excuses for those who do?
 
Just a point about road and railway workers they are wearing hi viz to seen by the others yes but also to make them visible to their colleagues when a lot of people are working and operating machinery and men are working on the ground it helps to keep everyone aware of where everybody esle is.
 
JennyConnor said:
But if it has been worn by an adult as she quoted 'I usually ride in one' This strongly suggests that it will have moulded (like any hat does) to the adults head shape which will not be the same as a developing child.

One of the liveries on my yard has the same hat with the same sizing as me. However, we know when we get the hats mixed up and her's falls over my eyebrows and mine is a little tight on her forehead.
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Yes that's true, but don't riding schools, trekking centres have hats for hire for customers without their own ?

In a perfect world we'd all have hats conforming to the highest specification and replaced regularly or after every knock.

Not quite on the subject but the last time I hit the tarmac with my head, the ground missed the part protected by the hat. I landed on my blooming face.:o Maybe I need an American football type helmet.
 
There are soooo many additional safety measures I could take each day, but don't.

I use my judgement, and defend for anyone the freedom to do the same.
 
But the general argument against seems to be that it's the car drivers fault if they cannot see the horse, that would be like saying its train drivers fault for hitting the workman
 
Aarrghimpossiblepony said:
In both those instances the people are operating/working where people are not expected to be.

What seems to me to be missing in this argument is anger that car drivers have got to the point attitude wise where other than themselves, nothing and nobody is going to be on the road.

It's not so much about high vis, it's the resigned acceptance that drivers can behave like selfish idiots. In fact it's so expected, people have to make sure they don't get in their way. People on horses/bicyles, children going to school, workers, ect., everybody has to live and put up with car drivers behaving like selfish b'stards.
QUOTE]

So true. Van went past my pony trap so fast at the weekend that I when I tried to hit him with the whip the lash wasn't fast enough!
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weebarney said:
But the general argument against seems to be that it's the car drivers fault if they cannot see the horse, that would be like saying its train drivers fault for hitting the workman
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If a driver in bright weather drives too fast to see when he drives into shade it's no different to meeting a dark coloured slow moving car it is the drivers fault.
Many accidents are not drivers fault but not seeing what's on the road
in daylight is the drivers responsiblity
A train driver is very unlikely to be able to stop a train when they see a workman I sincerely hope they have a better system than hi viz to protect workers on the railways from trains .
But it will make the workers aware of each other and they are using dangerous machines.
 
weebarney said:
So why do all these workers wear them during the day ? Maybe perhaps they DO make a difference between life and death
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As I said, the examples you gave are where people are not expected to be.

Why does any car driver on a public road have the attitude that there won't be a pedestrian. horse rider/cyclist on the road?
And why aren't they constantly looking out for them and slowing down when they can't see round a corner on a narrow road?

Maybe it's learning to drive in London so it's an inbuilt attitude for me, there is always something/somebody on the road that you will hit if you aren't taking enough care.
An empty road is an exception not the expected.
 
weebarney said:
But the general argument against seems to be that it's the car drivers fault if they cannot see the horse, that would be like saying its train drivers fault for hitting the workman
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I don't think anyone is saying it's the car drivers fault if they can't see you. I have said previously that I wear hi viz on iffy days. However the idea that a car driver on a normal day can't see a half ton horse (or group therof) is laughable.

I ride on the road with the kids alot. We don't have any problem being seen, and are fortunate that generally drivers here are kind and considerate. However we meet the odd one that is a danger to everyone (e.g. speeds up when they see you, overtakes dangerously, etc.), and no amount of hi viz would make a blind bit of difference.
 
pennyturner said:
I don't think anyone is saying it's the car drivers fault if they can't see you. I have said previously that I wear hi viz on iffy days. However the idea that a car driver on a normal day can't see a half ton horse (or group therof) is laughable.

I ride on the road with the kids alot. We don't have any problem being seen, and are fortunate that generally drivers here are kind and considerate. However we meet the odd one that is a danger to everyone (e.g. speeds up when they see you, overtakes dangerously, etc.), and no amount of hi viz would make a blind bit of difference.
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Good grief, have you not studied the pictures posted earlier in the thread? Those horses and riders are barely visible in the bright sunlight. They speak for themselves surely! Yes there is the odd driver who is a complete idiot and will speed up or drive too close. However, most drivers will slow down for horses and behave courteously and in a safety conscious way. I certainly appreciate it when I see riders with hi-viz as it means I can see them those few seconds earlier and make sure I have slowed down and had time to check the road ahead as well as behind. Also, if I'm driving along a narrow, bendy country lane, I'm much more likely to notice a hi-viz over a hedge before I turn a bend. Much more preferable to turning the corner into the back of a horse that I could've seen much earlier. If we expect drivers to be courteous to us, surely they deserve us to be courteous in return by giving them as much chance to see us as possible. It's a two way street. No wonder horses and riders have such a bad name on the roads if there are so many people who refuse to wear hi-viz out of some sort of weird refusal to 'go along with the crowd'.

Hi-viz is not about fashion or looking good or conforming. It's just good sense, surely it's better to be safe than sorry. I have to say, it's worrying if you are taking out groups of children without hi-viz. Talk about setting a bad example. I definitely wouldn't let my little girl ride out with someone who won't wear hi-viz.
 
I wouldn't waste your time Clare. She's obviously a troll poster who likes the drama and won't listen to anyone with simple advise. People like her should not be allowed out on a horse.
 
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