RLF
Well-Known Member
oh i'm not sure Sooty this story made the press!
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/wale...91466-20521183/
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/wale...91466-20521183/
stopped by the police on my horse!!
- Thread starter ajones
- Start date
Sooty
Well-Known Member
That actually made me LOL! I love the fact they went on a log flume...
Oh what I mean is: absolutely disgraceful waste of taxpayers' money.
RLF
Well-Known Member
yes i did chuckle too
the watcher
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
This is a joke, right? For what possible reason did they have a right to ask for her passport? Is it part of what passports are for? No? Is there any relevance to what she was doing, which was asking them to slow down? No. Was it a deliberate attempt at intimidation? Yes. Did it potentially screw up her day after they had effectively endangered her life? Yes
I do so hope this goes to the national press
E
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the delayed reaction - sometimes work gets in the way...
It was a government directive that whenever a member of the public is stopped a spoken to that contact will be recorded, using a form very much like the producer, and whilst this is being abandoned in many areas, or at least cut back because becaue 'the management' realised what street officers have been saying for years, that asking members of the public for their name,address and their assessment of their ethnic origin, amongst other things, is good only for stats and upsets the public.
So, just maybe those officers HAVE to fill in a form, and since they are doing it, it is no extra work for them to request the passport, which is a crime reduction measure
This is a joke, right? For what possible reason did they have a right to ask for her passport? Is it part of what passports are for? No? Is there any relevance to what she was doing, which was asking them to slow down? No. Was it a deliberate attempt at intimidation? Yes. Did it potentially screw up her day after they had effectively endangered her life? Yes
I do so hope this goes to the national press
E
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry for the delayed reaction - sometimes work gets in the way...
It was a government directive that whenever a member of the public is stopped a spoken to that contact will be recorded, using a form very much like the producer, and whilst this is being abandoned in many areas, or at least cut back because becaue 'the management' realised what street officers have been saying for years, that asking members of the public for their name,address and their assessment of their ethnic origin, amongst other things, is good only for stats and upsets the public.
So, just maybe those officers HAVE to fill in a form, and since they are doing it, it is no extra work for them to request the passport, which is a crime reduction measure
skewbaldpony
Well-Known Member
but the point is, or seems to me to be, that the request for a document to be produced was rendered pointless by their inability to describe the horse, and their not even examining the passport.
I'm not a great fan of big brother, but I can see the point if you are asked to produce documents for a car of this make and model and that registration number, and you duly arrive down at the station where someone checks that the description and the document tally.
I don't think the police have the right to demand documentation on a totally spurious basis. No amount of passports or lack of would make this horse a shetland!
They can't have it both ways. If they are to be empowered to ask for documentation proving ownership of the horse (which opens a whole nother can of worms, since there is as yet no law requiring you only to ride a horse you own) then they must be trained to fill in the producer in such a way that it is a meaningful transaction, checking it against the passport.
Otherwise, it is a waste of our time, and also of theirs.
I'm not a great fan of big brother, but I can see the point if you are asked to produce documents for a car of this make and model and that registration number, and you duly arrive down at the station where someone checks that the description and the document tally.
I don't think the police have the right to demand documentation on a totally spurious basis. No amount of passports or lack of would make this horse a shetland!
They can't have it both ways. If they are to be empowered to ask for documentation proving ownership of the horse (which opens a whole nother can of worms, since there is as yet no law requiring you only to ride a horse you own) then they must be trained to fill in the producer in such a way that it is a meaningful transaction, checking it against the passport.
Otherwise, it is a waste of our time, and also of theirs.
the watcher
Well-Known Member
Indeed, but there are steps afoot to reduce the whole raft of information required on the producer (did you know in Thames Valley the slip is nearly 12" long?), so expecting there to be space for white marks, whorls etc isn't going to happen. clearly a training need has been identified there in terms of describing horse.
Helen Evans has produced an excellent video for Police about dealing with horses and identifying them - but I imagine it hasn't got that for through the country yet.
My suggestion that somebody horsey do a short presentation on one of their training days was quite genuine - how else are they to learn?
Helen Evans has produced an excellent video for Police about dealing with horses and identifying them - but I imagine it hasn't got that for through the country yet.
My suggestion that somebody horsey do a short presentation on one of their training days was quite genuine - how else are they to learn?
amandaco2
Well-Known Member
that is just amazing.how dare they!its unbelievable.
glad you stood your ground!
defo complain
glad you stood your ground!
defo complain
skewbaldpony
Well-Known Member
What about someone from Mounted Police? Surely they must know how to describe a horse (not to mention how to behave around one) and could produce some training materials?
minerva
Well-Known Member
That's unbelievable, do they not have anything better to do, if the police are that chippy what hope does this country have.
make an official complaint, and drag their asses through the system
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/index/complaints/who_complaint.htm
make an official complaint, and drag their asses through the system
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/index/complaints/who_complaint.htm
pinktiger
Well-Known Member
should you really on, a forum b discussing cases/senerios your husband is dealing with, sorry but having used this system would be horrified if you continued refering to your husbands encounters.... just a thought!!!
showjumpinglover
Well-Known Member
I would personally make sure that everyone in your local area (well not literally because i probably dont live any where near you) knows what has happened. go the the press, the police and complain. Ok fair enough you were probably in the wrong for mouthing them, but at the end of the day they were not obaying the law themselfs. but you are in the right here, it is unfair that you have been stopped whilst hacking out.
This just makes a point that ALL people need to be awear of everybody around them whilst there are horses on the road.
sorry it is a bit long, but had to make a point.
This just makes a point that ALL people need to be awear of everybody around them whilst there are horses on the road.
sorry it is a bit long, but had to make a point.
Eceni
Well-Known Member
Why is someone in the wrong for telling an arse he's an arse? Does it matter that he's in uniform if he's just buzzed past without slowing?
Seems to me it's a perfectly reasonable response.
E
Seems to me it's a perfectly reasonable response.
E
the watcher
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
What about someone from Mounted Police? Surely they must know how to describe a horse (not to mention how to behave around one) and could produce some training materials?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not every force has a mounted section...
What about someone from Mounted Police? Surely they must know how to describe a horse (not to mention how to behave around one) and could produce some training materials?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not every force has a mounted section...
skewbaldpony
Well-Known Member
No, I am aware of that, but surely the ones that do have computers? Or failing that photocopiers and stamps?
the watcher
Well-Known Member
I'm sure they would send them out if asked. But I will make it my mission this week to obtain a copy and send it to North Wales
skewbaldpony
Well-Known Member
Now that would be amusing. Unsolicited appearance of information pack concerning the identification of equines, and basic safety procedures ........
oinkmoooink
Well-Known Member
About their deicind to link it to a stolen shetland
Everyone i know- (mostly people who dont know anything aobut horses)
can, if they can recognise any breed of horse, recognise a shetland. They are making fools of themselves using that as an excuse
Feeling very sorry for you, wouldnt be surprised to find a magazine or newspaper which would publish it, its drawn enough attention on here!
Any news yet?
On another forum there was a post about carriage driving, and the whip aids recommended in the highway code being cnosidered offencsive by motorists/riders
very odd
Everyone i know- (mostly people who dont know anything aobut horses)
can, if they can recognise any breed of horse, recognise a shetland. They are making fools of themselves using that as an excuse
Feeling very sorry for you, wouldnt be surprised to find a magazine or newspaper which would publish it, its drawn enough attention on here!
Any news yet?
On another forum there was a post about carriage driving, and the whip aids recommended in the highway code being cnosidered offencsive by motorists/riders
very odd
Enfys
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
'never in 54 years on this planet have "I" met a bright copper yet, I'm sure they have to have an NVQ in being thick to get in the force, lets face it, any body with intelligence isn't going to go in the force to start with'
You wouldn't consider this to be in anyway insulting, unpleasant or just downright rude then?
I would.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bit of a generalisation I would say, but then I am biased as my Mother was in the Police Force and my GrandFather was a Chief Constable and neither of them could be classed as nit wits!
'never in 54 years on this planet have "I" met a bright copper yet, I'm sure they have to have an NVQ in being thick to get in the force, lets face it, any body with intelligence isn't going to go in the force to start with'
You wouldn't consider this to be in anyway insulting, unpleasant or just downright rude then?
I would.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bit of a generalisation I would say, but then I am biased as my Mother was in the Police Force and my GrandFather was a Chief Constable and neither of them could be classed as nit wits!
FMM
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Indeed, but there are steps afoot to reduce the whole raft of information required on the producer (did you know in Thames Valley the slip is nearly 12" long?), so expecting there to be space for white marks, whorls etc isn't going to happen. clearly a training need has been identified there in terms of describing horse.
Helen Evans has produced an excellent video for Police about dealing with horses and identifying them - but I imagine it hasn't got that for through the country yet.
My suggestion that somebody horsey do a short presentation on one of their training days was quite genuine - how else are they to learn?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a prime example of why the police should now be using mobile data and not manual forms for this. My company provides systems like this and the police forces in the England and Wales have been "given" £50m to mobilise their police forces - i.e. use mobile data rather than voice and pen and paper. So in this instance, a computerised form would have been produced from a PDA/handheld computer, which would be datestamped and tracked. There would be no way that anything could be covered up.
The reason for using mobile data is generally to allow police to save a minimum of 1 hour per day in going back to the station to complete paperwork, but if it can also protect the general public, then so much the better.
Someone also made a snide comment about police always being stupid.
What an idiotic thing to say. You need to be thankful that that isn't true and that the police force in the UK is something to be proud of. In most ways we are far ahead of any other country, and our police forces are often being visited by overseas police to look at the best practice initiatives that have been set up in this country.
I am now working with two ex police officers and I promise you they are two of the most intelligent people I have ever met. In addition, the training they have received in how to deal with people means that they are incredibly quick to pick up on situations and can direct conversations back to the right channels which is extremely useful in a sales environment.
Please don't make generalisations - there are good and bad people in all professions.
As far as the original complaint is concerned, it sounds like they were trying to scare you for some reason and this is unacceptable behaviour. I hope that you are successful in following this up.
Indeed, but there are steps afoot to reduce the whole raft of information required on the producer (did you know in Thames Valley the slip is nearly 12" long?), so expecting there to be space for white marks, whorls etc isn't going to happen. clearly a training need has been identified there in terms of describing horse.
Helen Evans has produced an excellent video for Police about dealing with horses and identifying them - but I imagine it hasn't got that for through the country yet.
My suggestion that somebody horsey do a short presentation on one of their training days was quite genuine - how else are they to learn?
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a prime example of why the police should now be using mobile data and not manual forms for this. My company provides systems like this and the police forces in the England and Wales have been "given" £50m to mobilise their police forces - i.e. use mobile data rather than voice and pen and paper. So in this instance, a computerised form would have been produced from a PDA/handheld computer, which would be datestamped and tracked. There would be no way that anything could be covered up.
The reason for using mobile data is generally to allow police to save a minimum of 1 hour per day in going back to the station to complete paperwork, but if it can also protect the general public, then so much the better.
Someone also made a snide comment about police always being stupid.
What an idiotic thing to say. You need to be thankful that that isn't true and that the police force in the UK is something to be proud of. In most ways we are far ahead of any other country, and our police forces are often being visited by overseas police to look at the best practice initiatives that have been set up in this country.
I am now working with two ex police officers and I promise you they are two of the most intelligent people I have ever met. In addition, the training they have received in how to deal with people means that they are incredibly quick to pick up on situations and can direct conversations back to the right channels which is extremely useful in a sales environment.
Please don't make generalisations - there are good and bad people in all professions.
As far as the original complaint is concerned, it sounds like they were trying to scare you for some reason and this is unacceptable behaviour. I hope that you are successful in following this up.
showjumpinglover
Well-Known Member
i just thought it were stupid to say it. oh it dont matter