Strange behaviour, vet stumped

[Waysandmeans]

I had a horse a couple of years ago who stood camped out now and then. He was under vetinary care for many things but I felt it was because his back was sore (some kind of relief to stand like that). Although I was dismissed at the time, I was proven right, although his issues were nothing like yours. Hope it all works out for yours

 

[Floofball]

My horse has been through similar. Obvious discomfort and very quiet. I thought it was going to be a massive bean. Vets did a thorough clean and check - no bean. Wasn’t passing urine and getting more uncomfortable. Endoscope to have a look in bladder and couldn’t see anything due to the sludge, urine sample taken at the same time as well as bloods. Bladder flushed to clear sludge and electrolyte soups given. Results showed no infection, no stones and normal kidney/liver function - but did show severe dehydration. He had just started a Pergolide trail so this was stopped as the only thing that had changed management wise. He continued to improve with electrolytes but took a few weeks to get back to full strength.

2 months later I noticed signs of dehydration again. Started giving electrolyte mashes and monitored water intake. 3 days later showing signs of discomfort again that needed pain management from the vet (weekend as usual!) Vet gave fluids via tubing on the Sunday to keep him hydrated then he went into the vets Monday morning for monitoring and bloods - he had stopped eating by now and was a very poorly horse. As long as he had pain relief he started nibbling on steamed hay and after 3 days was eating and drinking without pain relief so came home with a tonic as bloods this time showed slight anaemia.
Thinking at this point is - something makes him feel unwell (viral or environmental) - he stops drinking, gets dehydrated, urination becomes painful then he stops eating I am suspicious of hind gut ulcers due to anti inflammatories (he was on a daily bute in summer and high strength Boswelia the last bout) so introduced a brewers yeast based gut supplement.

Bloods were checked after 2 weeks on the tonic and he was no longer anaemic but a liver ‘insult’ was detected. Bloods were re-checked last week and liver results were slightly raised still but lower than the previous test so hopefully going in the right direction.
He’s had to go back on some soaked hay (not all of his daily rations - as was suspicious of that being the cause first time around but vets ruled it out) as showing slight metabolic signs and he’d regained all his lost weight rather quickly! I‘ve reintroduced his joint supplement at a low rate as he was stiffening up and will add milk thistle to this too to hopefully help his liver along. Plan is to repeat bloods in 8 weeks and see where we’re at. If liver still raised vets want to biopsy I will be hard at work managing grass consumption yadaya - honestly, he’s hard work but love him to bits - just want him as healthy and happy as he can be.
Hope you get improvement and some answers. I’ll update if I get anymore insight into what’s going on with my lad

 

[AWinter]

Just an update on this in case anyone is looking for answers for their horse in the future because this is a complex, if not very interesting, one. Just to remind all of his bloods etc are fine, he is eating, drinking, bright and happy.

So back in Feb the vet came out and did an abdominal and transrectal ultrasound, only thing we found was slightly excessive sludge in his bladder which was also confirmed on a urine sample. The vet said the only next step they could offer was to take him in and put a camera up and have a look but there wasn’t really any treatment per se, just management. Given how bright he is and that his only symptom is standing camped out for a few seconds at times I decided against anything more invasive at this time and got down to research and picking brains of relevant professionals.

One thing that came up that just felt right in my gut was a link between nerve damage/compression in the bladder causing this and back pain in horses. This horse has had a terrible time with sore feet and poor posture for the 6 months previous to this but I was stuck in a situation where I wasn’t allowed to shoe and he kept throwing boots.

I immediately put him on a kidney tonic from Trinity consultants, then we started booting his hinds 24/7 with wedge pads to give him some heel and relieve some of the tension in his hind end. Within 5 days the camping out seemed to completely stop.

Someone else had pointed out to me that his droppings were quite small, compared to the other horses his piles would be about half the amount, sometimes less, sometimes more but definitely recognisable as smaller. As the camping out stopped his droppings went back to normal. We have come up with a theory, just like in humans I guess, that his posture has been so compromised it is affecting the nerves internally and when he’s feeling crappy it affects his bowels and his bladder.

About 3 weeks into this, I’d left his rug off and we had a rough night of weather and he regressed, caught him camping out again and his droppings were small. I was gutted, but by the afternoon he seemed fine again. This has happened a few times since and I have now come to the conclusion it’s not the temperature it’s when the ground gets wet and slippy, walking on sloppy mud causes the tension and he regresses.

It’s such a bizarre, interesting thing and I’m sure my vet thinks I’m slightly mad, but I am convinced this is what is happening with him. He shows no signs of dripping or incontinence and urinates normally.

We are now at the start of a very long road of rehabbing his hooves, already he is looking much better but his body has been through a lot.

I just wanted to share because I know I wish someone had written this post before me as when I got the potential diagnosis from the vet the prognosis seemed fairly bleak. There is so, so much to posture that we don’t know or think about I think it’s fascinating. I will keep you updated and if things go well I will post before and after photos of him, he looks like his front and back end belong to two different horses at the minute.

 

[lynz88]

Mine can do this when his hock arthritis is really bothering him.

 

[lynz88]

Just an update on this in case anyone is looking for answers for their horse in the future because this is a complex, if not very interesting, one. Just to remind all of his bloods etc are fine, he is eating, drinking, bright and happy.

So back in Feb the vet came out and did an abdominal and transrectal ultrasound, only thing we found was slightly excessive sludge in his bladder which was also confirmed on a urine sample. The vet said the only next step they could offer was to take him in and put a camera up and have a look but there wasn’t really any treatment per se, just management. Given how bright he is and that his only symptom is standing camped out for a few seconds at times I decided against anything more invasive at this time and got down to research and picking brains of relevant professionals.

One thing that came up that just felt right in my gut was a link between nerve damage/compression in the bladder causing this and back pain in horses. This horse has had a terrible time with sore feet and poor posture for the 6 months previous to this but I was stuck in a situation where I wasn’t allowed to shoe and he kept throwing boots.

I immediately put him on a kidney tonic from Trinity consultants, then we started booting his hinds 24/7 with wedge pads to give him some heel and relieve some of the tension in his hind end. Within 5 days the camping out seemed to completely stop.

Someone else had pointed out to me that his droppings were quite small, compared to the other horses his piles would be about half the amount, sometimes less, sometimes more but definitely recognisable as smaller. As the camping out stopped his droppings went back to normal. We have come up with a theory, just like in humans I guess, that his posture has been so compromised it is affecting the nerves internally and when he’s feeling crappy it affects his bowels and his bladder.

About 3 weeks into this, I’d left his rug off and we had a rough night of weather and he regressed, caught him camping out again and his droppings were small. I was gutted, but by the afternoon he seemed fine again. This has happened a few times since and I have now come to the conclusion it’s not the temperature it’s when the ground gets wet and slippy, walking on sloppy mud causes the tension and he regresses.

It’s such a bizarre, interesting thing and I’m sure my vet thinks I’m slightly mad, but I am convinced this is what is happening with him. He shows no signs of dripping or incontinence and urinates normally.

We are now at the start of a very long road of rehabbing his hooves, already he is looking much better but his body has been through a lot.

I just wanted to share because I know I wish someone had written this post before me as when I got the potential diagnosis from the vet the prognosis seemed fairly bleak. There is so, so much to posture that we don’t know or think about I think it’s fascinating. I will keep you updated and if things go well I will post before and after photos of him, he looks like his front and back end belong to two different horses at the minute.

Very, very interesting and glad you got to the bottom of it. How very bizarre though. I think it's similar between humans and horses in this respect tbh.

 

[PurBee]

Just an update on this in case anyone is looking for answers for their horse in the future because this is a complex, if not very interesting, one. Just to remind all of his bloods etc are fine, he is eating, drinking, bright and happy.

So back in Feb the vet came out and did an abdominal and transrectal ultrasound, only thing we found was slightly excessive sludge in his bladder which was also confirmed on a urine sample. The vet said the only next step they could offer was to take him in and put a camera up and have a look but there wasn’t really any treatment per se, just management. Given how bright he is and that his only symptom is standing camped out for a few seconds at times I decided against anything more invasive at this time and got down to research and picking brains of relevant professionals.

One thing that came up that just felt right in my gut was a link between nerve damage/compression in the bladder causing this and back pain in horses. This horse has had a terrible time with sore feet and poor posture for the 6 months previous to this but I was stuck in a situation where I wasn’t allowed to shoe and he kept throwing boots.

I immediately put him on a kidney tonic from Trinity consultants, then we started booting his hinds 24/7 with wedge pads to give him some heel and relieve some of the tension in his hind end. Within 5 days the camping out seemed to completely stop.

Someone else had pointed out to me that his droppings were quite small, compared to the other horses his piles would be about half the amount, sometimes less, sometimes more but definitely recognisable as smaller. As the camping out stopped his droppings went back to normal. We have come up with a theory, just like in humans I guess, that his posture has been so compromised it is affecting the nerves internally and when he’s feeling crappy it affects his bowels and his bladder.

About 3 weeks into this, I’d left his rug off and we had a rough night of weather and he regressed, caught him camping out again and his droppings were small. I was gutted, but by the afternoon he seemed fine again. This has happened a few times since and I have now come to the conclusion it’s not the temperature it’s when the ground gets wet and slippy, walking on sloppy mud causes the tension and he regresses.

It’s such a bizarre, interesting thing and I’m sure my vet thinks I’m slightly mad, but I am convinced this is what is happening with him. He shows no signs of dripping or incontinence and urinates normally.

We are now at the start of a very long road of rehabbing his hooves, already he is looking much better but his body has been through a lot.

I just wanted to share because I know I wish someone had written this post before me as when I got the potential diagnosis from the vet the prognosis seemed fairly bleak. There is so, so much to posture that we don’t know or think about I think it’s fascinating. I will keep you updated and if things go well I will post before and after photos of him, he looks like his front and back end belong to two different horses at the minute.

Regarding the ultrasound bladder sludge, and his improvement on a kidney tonic - i am wondering if your horse at the last yard when this kicked off, has been exposed to eating large amount of docks? Or was there lots of docks in the hay?

Docks contain oxalic acid (especially high in curly dock) - oxalic acid binds with calcium in plant tissue = excess toxic oxalic acid calcium dealt with by liver and kidneys to filter the toxic oxalic acid - which is known high oxalic acid foods for humans causes kidney stones or crystals, which can make their way as crystals to the bladder and be pee’d out. Some crystals form stones, and calcium ones are the most common type, oftentimes due to oxalic acid binding from foods.

Some study info about it:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S221080332300060X

(As an aside, in the above study they mention that certain plants will emit oxalic acid to stop excess ‘herbivory’ - grazing animals eating them. Its a protection mechanism plants have, to emit certain pungent compounds to stop being over-grazed and killed-off. This is something i’ve been researching regarding horse paddocks being over-grazed and their natural grazing style/behaviour when grazing backs-up this theory that grass emits certain off-putting compounds causing the horse to move on to a different patch of grass. A few studies suggest this and im compiling the info together to form a clearer wider picture, as this info is valuable for paddock maintenance, and horse health.)



For horses, there’s some plants containing oxalic acid, with dock being the most common one they have access to. Curly dock more toxic than flat dock. Dose dependent toxicity means they can have a bit of flat dock but not a fair amount regularly, due to oxalic acid.

This study below about horses with urine sediment, covers the consequential symptoms that these horses can suffer with, including motor neuron issues, muscular issues, as you describe.
The study doesnt bother discussing the cause of urinary sediment, but focuses more on downstream effects of the condition.
They found calcium crystals are the most common bladder sediment.
These crystals irritate the bladder wall, causing inflammation, leading to urinary irritation, which can lead to nerve/muscle issues.

Sabulous cystitis in the horse: 13 cases (2013–2020) - PMC

The objective of this study was to describe the clinical findings, medical management, and outcomes of horses with sabulous cystitis, and to describe a high flow bladder lavage procedure in horses that are standing or under general anesthesia. The ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is like a chicken/egg scenario - if its thought nerve issues causes bladder irritation with calcium sediment build-up we’d be seeing the issue backwards….especially as nerve issues dont irritate the bladder wall raw and cause sediment to build up - thats a biochemical process occurring.
Yet sediment build-up and irritation cause the bladder wall to become inflamed which then affects nerve function, small nerves that run throughout the body by being inflamed themselves, or ‘pinched’ by inflammation of tissues etc etc.

Nerve issues and urinary problems without sediment are likely to be linked because the bladder cannot function properly due to nerve issues. Spinal injuries/accidents/falls etc.
When sediment in bladder or kidney are found/tested/confirmed - then that alters the picture of causation, as the study above points to the sediment being the primary causation to the downstream issues coming from it, despite them not discussing cause of sediment in this particular study.


When you updated and mentioned the sediment found my immediate thought was excess calcium/gout-type conditions and oxalates in foods are the primary cause for humans, which just so happen to be problematic and toxic for horses too from certain plants - dock leaves being the most common toxic cause of excess oxalate in their diet.

The curly dock can be very well hidden in their paddocks as it can grow a low flat ring of small leaves and not easily be seen from a distance. Walking fields is needed to spot young docks taking over. I’ve had plenty of it in hay over the years - one load of hay heavy with dock, so it can easily be coming from the hay he was eating rather than paddock - both need considering.

Here’s a pic of young-ish curly dock leaves - they look harmless enough in a field but must be dealt with if there’s a fair amount growing in paddocks:






The sediment should pee out and clear the bladder, allowing bladder healing and improvement overall of nerves/muscles, providing the cause IF its food cause, is stopped.
Other causes are usually complications of other diseases, and kidney diseases in general. The primary cause is usually food-based in otherwise healthy individuals/animals.

 

[AWinter]

Regarding the ultrasound bladder sludge, and his improvement on a kidney tonic - i am wondering if your horse at the last yard when this kicked off, has been exposed to eating large amount of docks? Or was there lots of docks in the hay?

Docks contain oxalic acid (especially high in curly dock) - oxalic acid binds with calcium in plant tissue = excess toxic oxalic acid calcium dealt with by liver and kidneys to filter the toxic oxalic acid - which is known high oxalic acid foods for humans causes kidney stones or crystals, which can make their way as crystals to the bladder and be pee’d out. Some crystals form stones, and calcium ones are the most common type, oftentimes due to oxalic acid binding from foods.

Some study info about it:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S221080332300060X

(As an aside, in the above study they mention that certain plants will emit oxalic acid to stop excess ‘herbivory’ - grazing animals eating them. Its a protection mechanism plants have, to emit certain pungent compounds to stop being over-grazed and killed-off. This is something i’ve been researching regarding horse paddocks being over-grazed and their natural grazing style/behaviour when grazing backs-up this theory that grass emits certain off-putting compounds causing the horse to move on to a different patch of grass. A few studies suggest this and im compiling the info together to form a clearer wider picture, as this info is valuable for paddock maintenance, and horse health.)



For horses, there’s some plants containing oxalic acid, with dock being the most common one they have access to. Curly dock more toxic than flat dock. Dose dependent toxicity means they can have a bit of flat dock but not a fair amount regularly, due to oxalic acid.

This study below about horses with urine sediment, covers the consequential symptoms that these horses can suffer with, including motor neuron issues, muscular issues, as you describe.
The study doesnt bother discussing the cause of urinary sediment, but focuses more on downstream effects of the condition.
They found calcium crystals are the most common bladder sediment.
These crystals irritate the bladder wall, causing inflammation, leading to urinary irritation, which can lead to nerve/muscle issues.

Sabulous cystitis in the horse: 13 cases (2013–2020) - PMC

The objective of this study was to describe the clinical findings, medical management, and outcomes of horses with sabulous cystitis, and to describe a high flow bladder lavage procedure in horses that are standing or under general anesthesia. The ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is like a chicken/egg scenario - if its thought nerve issues causes bladder irritation with calcium sediment build-up we’d be seeing the issue backwards….especially as nerve issues dont irritate the bladder wall raw and cause sediment to build up - thats a biochemical process occurring.
Yet sediment build-up and irritation cause the bladder wall to become inflamed which then affects nerve function, small nerves that run throughout the body by being inflamed themselves, or ‘pinched’ by inflammation of tissues etc etc.

Nerve issues and urinary problems without sediment are likely to be linked because the bladder cannot function properly due to nerve issues. Spinal injuries/accidents/falls etc.
When sediment in bladder or kidney are found/tested/confirmed - then that alters the picture of causation, as the study above points to the sediment being the primary causation to the downstream issues coming from it, despite them not discussing cause of sediment in this particular study.


When you updated and mentioned the sediment found my immediate thought was excess calcium/gout-type conditions and oxalates in foods are the primary cause for humans, which just so happen to be problematic and toxic for horses too from certain plants - dock leaves being the most common toxic cause of excess oxalate in their diet.

The curly dock can be very well hidden in their paddocks as it can grow a low flat ring of small leaves and not easily be seen from a distance. Walking fields is needed to spot young docks taking over. I’ve had plenty of it in hay over the years - one load of hay heavy with dock, so it can easily be coming from the hay he was eating rather than paddock - both need considering.

Here’s a pic of young-ish curly dock leaves - they look harmless enough in a field but must be dealt with if there’s a fair amount growing in paddocks:

View attachment 139248View attachment 139249




The sediment should pee out and clear the bladder, allowing bladder healing and improvement overall of nerves/muscles, providing the cause IF its food cause, is stopped.
Other causes are usually complications of other diseases, and kidney diseases in general. The primary cause is usually food-based in otherwise healthy individuals/animals.

You are insanely knowledgeable I really appreciate your insight on my posts and the time it must take you to write it. There were a lot of docks in the hay!! This is the same hay that caused them both liver damage from the mould. I always assumed they didn’t eat them as the stems were always left, but I guess they’ll have eaten the leaves in the hay. That’s really fascinating insight, the vet did mention something about dietary relation but didn’t really know any details beyond don’t feed too much calcium.

There are some docks around our fence line/hedgerow in the new place but I haven’t seen the horses touch them. Is strimming and collecting the best way to go? We can’t spray. Or are they only a concern in hay?

I’m now wondering if my other horse was also affected just not as badly. I know another horse who moved from that yard 2 months after mine and I’ve just convinced them to get a liver panel run (4 months later!) as he looks so awful and his liver enzymes are through the roof. Absolutely shocking as this is a big, well known “holistic” type livery yard.

Thank for your reply I was struggling to find much info online and my vet wasn’t particularly knowledgable on the matter. I suppose it’s one of those things that goes unnoticed in a lot of horses until things are more severe.

 

[PurBee]

You are insanely knowledgeable I really appreciate your insight on my posts and the time it must take you to write it. There were a lot of docks in the hay!! This is the same hay that caused them both liver damage from the mould. I always assumed they didn’t eat them as the stems were always left, but I guess they’ll have eaten the leaves in the hay. That’s really fascinating insight, the vet did mention something about dietary relation but didn’t really know any details beyond don’t feed too much calcium.

There are some docks around our fence line/hedgerow in the new place but I haven’t seen the horses touch them. Is strimming and collecting the best way to go? We can’t spray. Or are they only a concern in hay?

I’m now wondering if my other horse was also affected just not as badly. I know another horse who moved from that yard 2 months after mine and I’ve just convinced them to get a liver panel run (4 months later!) as he looks so awful and his liver enzymes are through the roof. Absolutely shocking as this is a big, well known “holistic” type livery yard.

Thank for your reply I was struggling to find much info online and my vet wasn’t particularly knowledgable on the matter. I suppose it’s one of those things that goes unnoticed in a lot of horses until things are more severe.

Youre very welcome…you’re post reminded me of the gout episode i got once because i was obsessed with healthy eating and eating leafy greens, with lots of chard and spinach containing oxalic acid. I got stiff joints, back ache, bladder issues etc - it took ages for me to realise the cause, as all info said it was due to excess meat and alcohol - 2 things i hadnt had for years! I really love chard and spinach but have to be careful of dose and not having them daily.

Docks are a grey area regarding toxicity because they can have a few leaves of the flat dock here and there, and be totally fine. But curly dock, is more slender than flat dock with rippled edges mostly, and far more loaded with oxalic acid.

If there were lots of docks in the hay, that is likely the cause, rather than a few docks in the field. Dose is important. Higher dose more regularly = toxic build-up in liver and kidneys. Some horses will have eaten less, some more, hence varying symptoms. Dock leaves are sometimes palatable, and likely more tasty dried in hay than fresh in the field. Fresher leaves are likely more bitter and put them off…which is probably why you havent seen them being eaten by the horses.

Field docks can be strimmed down and collected, but in reality, the time it takes to do that - which is a temporary measure as theyll only grow back again because dock is a persistant weed - youd be better off using your time to dig kill the whole plant with as much root as possible, and taking them out of the field.

If you use a grass edging cutting tool it would be quicker than using a spade or fork to dig them out. It would disturb the soil less too. With the half moon shaped blade of a grass edging tool you could slice near the base of the plant deeply cutting out the majority of the root if you angle the tool 45 degrees downward.
Docks are very difficult to pull up by hand as their roots are very firmly embedded when theyre mature. Younger ones are easier.

A tool like this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazooli-Garden-Edging-Border-Trimmer/dp/B0BWNWTTZ5/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3LJ2DZOSIUDRH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.b6S9flKR9BswpNPh8KgGnaw8JD803H6ibhslbsuEzVSpaHPhqxtUuLcjr7u0Ff3L96P7C4XsJxoNWpZ1QbUpFX4Ar-spqpaFTpIYlPXOFP0l7zpASLwTsS8UV_F8-irJ35rDt937i0nyV59T9kU0YpGdS7FrDCkeMNKQEm7a-dUx3Z-ZZm3x4eSNFwwwe31BB-UZRfwN5OFV44CK3FffSzxxBOwM667iwMPJKYUPg4c.yS1Q-VO6d_TONStc57hXlO0sONHgY7oqB5n-i15n6Y8&dib_tag=se&keywords=grass+edging+cutter&qid=1715601508&sprefix=Grass+edging%2Caps%2C233&sr=8-3

If you dont have time to dig them, strimming them and raking up the chopped bits to throw away, is a good temporary measure. Keep checking for regrowth and be prepared to strim again later on in the season.


The silky strings that surround real corn on the cob are very good for kidney issues. I dont know if horses can have them, so youd want to check, but theyre used in humans for kidney cleansing, and likely can be bought from herbal suppliers online. I think theyre called ‘corn silks’ - a tea is made of them. For a horse they could be brewed up as a tea, left to cool, and then the water and silks added to mash/beet pulp bowl feed. You might find your kidney tonic contains them.

 

[Charrose77]

I have done a mad research/Google/call experienced professionals afternoon and come to the conclusion we are going to treat change a few things and wait and see. Putting him on a kidney tonic from trinity and we are in the middle of dramatically changing his hoof balance.

Interestingly found this which really fits with my horse as he’s had awful postural issues and NPA in his feet. Have discussed with vet and she’s happy to wait then retest the urine in a month and see where we’re at, as he is functional and not in continent I’m hoping we’ve caught it early.

How is he doing now? Did you ever get to the bottom of it all? I have just ordered L94 from trinity for a liver problem, we don’t know the cause yet. How is your boy in himself now, still quiet?

 

[moorhillhorses]

Just throwing this out into the forum in the hopes someone has come across this before.

12yo gelding, very well in himself, eating/drinking/droppings/urinating all normal and fine.

I keep catching him standing very camped out as if he is going to urinate, he will stay there for maybe 30 seconds then just walk off and go back to normal, doesn’t look to be straining and doesn’t drop. He can also occasionally get a bit tail swishy and stampy and drop his penis but this isn’t as often and may be unrelated. I initially thought he was colicing and we had the emergency vet but now we really don’t think this is the case.

He has had his sheath looked at under sedation and the vet could find nothing, all clean and normal no swelling, no beans, nothing, have taken a swab that came back normal but he just doesn’t strike me as itchy and irritated (which he is in the summer with his sheath). I am going to get a urine sample just to check.

Had bloods run and the only thing that was thrown up was raised livery enzymes, so they came back and ran a full liver panel on both of my horses as they have lived together and eaten the same forage etc. Just got results back and they both have very similar slightly elevated AST and bile acids, plasma fib is within normal range. They are now on a liver tonic to retest in a month.

Vet said this is likely showing a historical cause either viral or mycotoxins from forage, the yard they were on previously to November kept getting awful mouldy hay so I’m assuming/hoping this is the cause. They have both been through a lot of stress and 2 yard moves in a short space of time, the latest one being 3 weeks ago.

I also strongly query if this is new behaviour or it just hasn’t been noted as they were on full livery up until 3 weeks ago and it’s so brief and non-distressed you wouldn’t really notice it if you weren’t paying attention. I do recall a fellow livery telling me he was standing camped out in the autumn but I assumed that was related to his sore feet at the time. Just a bit of a puzzle I’m trying to piece together. Sorry it’s a bit disjointed there are many parts to it.

I have shown the video of the behaviour to my physio and she did query if he’s trying to relieve some sort of musculoskeletal/postural discomfort as he has ongoing issues with hoof balance and tension. Happy to PM anyone the video don’t really want to post him on an open forum.

Ulcers I would think