Strasser - should I leave well alone?

[Tinypony]

I'm in New Zealand!! We have lots of people trimming over here - it's probably less frowned upon than in the UK!! Some are Strasser trimmers and some of them are very good - not too extreme!! I know of one endurance horse that is trimmed by the main Strasser trimmer who also conducts clinics, who (the horse!) has done many miles barefoot!! We also have other style trimmers....so whereabouts are you? Scott O'Malley is more of a horse trainer than a trimmer!! And he lives in the South Island, north of Christchurch....

Alyth - Scott isn't a trimmer. I was wondering if he might have been able to recommend someone. ;-)
Op, I agree with the others and really feel for you, having been in a similar situation even though I'd have avoided Strasser trimmers like the plague.

 

[lucemoose]

I literally have been doing everything the right way since the beginning. Feed, supplements, varied terrain and as much movement as poss. Horse has been sound barefoot! I just wanted a trimmer and so when someone reccomended a trimmer I was naive enough to believe it was "just" a trimmer and that the horse would literally have the rough edges rasped, a discussion on balance and a pat on the back about the diet etc. Not an extreme, laming trim and to be told to take the horses rugs off, and a slide show of the Strassers hunting barefoot and bridle less.

 

[Tinypony]

Don't beat yourself up, I don't think people realise how easy it is to be misled by a bad trimmer, or farrier for that matter. We've seen some dreadful trims and shoeing pictures on here. The Strasser trimmer who came to me was going on about making acorn tea as a wormer at one point... I even watched his first couple of trims, but when I relaxed and started to get on with jobs instead he obviously decided he could start to follow his own agenda. My horse told me there was something wrong, she actually knelt down on him during the trim, but it was too late.
Personally I would avoid putting shoes back on to "protect" the feet, and would boot and pad, but hopefully you can find someone good locally to help you.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Thank you.

I am really not in any way shape a numpty about hoofcare or horse care either and Im so gutted that I cant find a professional to assist me.

Im in NZ now.

Poor you - NZ is one of the worst countries for finding a good farrier - I know because my hubby and family nearly emigrated there as they were desperate for agood farriers

 

[BeesKnees]

Poor you. It's hard enough when you move to a different area, let alone a new country! It's clear you are trying to do the best for your horse, so try not to feel too bad. Just get the horse comfy, and then whilst it's recovering, you can find a different trimmer.

 

[Pale Rider]

I wouldn't use a Strasser trimmer. You cannot trim a foot into being good, there is much more to it than the actual trim, I'm just not comfortable with this.

 

[amandap]

If she is "walking on hot coals" I suggest you get hold of some boots and pads for her and/or keep her on soft conforming surfaces such as deep shaving, soft earth.
I wouldn't panic about another trim for a while, I am imagining she will need to grow more/back hoof and sole first. The support of a good trimmer/farrier as to the best way to get her comfortable would be good though.
These trimmers do remove a lot of sole, heel and bar in the more radical trim. She will need protection to her sole if this has been done.
I am so sorry for you and her. x

ps. Some of these trimmers are masters at talking the talk, someone I know was deceived only last year.

 

[ester]

There's a reason farriers spend 7 years training. No one but a fully qualified & time served farrier will ever get near my horses feet.
As per nic....when we have the best farriers & training system in the world why go elsewhere.

errr cos the OP is in NZ ....

 

[cptrayes]

There's a reason farriers spend 7 years training..

They don't.



OP I feel so sorry for you. When I started in this country there was only a Strasser trimmer available to me and I saw some pictures of what one in NZ had done and couldn't believe the blood! "opening notches" to cure contracted heels. You can't cut structure in like that. I went it alone, like you are at the moment, and it was really frightening, so I know exactly where you are coming from. If you can get your horse comfortable, then my best suggestion would be to try to work your horse on abrasive flat surfaces to match her growth rate with the wear, and let her trim herself for a while. I hope you have her happy on her feet soon.

 

[lucemoose]

Thank you for the soothing words. Its not in HHO nature to do back rubs and "there there"s but thats what I needed. I do feel very alone and up until the trim was merry happy in the knowledge I was doing future good for the horse.

I am surrounded by people who want to solve issues with shoes, and those that are barefoot just because. Had almost envisioned myself as a little poster child trying to do as much as possible sans shoes too!

Shes out 24/7 and theres good grass coverage for her to be on.

Cant help but think now the poor horse would be better shod in the interim now, so effectively the trimmer has not only harmed the horse, but also the barefoot reputation.

 

[amandap]

There may well be nothing to fix a shoe to and if sole has been removed peripheral loading may not be the best plan. She will regrow all that has been removed quite quickly and I hope she is comfortable soon.

 

[lucemoose]

Oh god , I have never ever had this problem before. So I have to wait until there is growth enough to shoe? Christ, I never envisioned this sort of problem.. It's enough to hope someone has put a one way ticket home under the tree.

 

[amandap]

Of course I don't know about there being enough hoof to shoe. She will need time to recover and become sound again anyway. She will be ok I'm sure, just needs a bit of time I expect.

 

[WebLeC]

Try to keep open minded but Thoroughbreds feet are often very UNSUITABLE for this type of managment, especially ex racehorses with collapsed heels. It may not be a case of "if it doesnt work..." - one client I know took 3 years to get her two horses sound again after barefoot trimmer of this school. They can do a lot of damage. We are VERY lucky in this country to have the best farrier training in the world. They are not all perfect but why use someone who has done a two week course when you can use someone who has gone through 5 years hard graft and regular exams before qualifying?

 

[amandap]

Hopefully one trim wont have done too much damage and nothing irreparable, it's horses that are successively trimmed this way aggressively that seem to have long lasting problems. The constant aggressive taking of live sole/bar etc. can damage the coria I believe.

ps. I believe the Strasser training is very, very intensive and challenging. It's just what she teaches regarding the trim that is a major problem for trimmers, owners and horses out in the field.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I agree with what Amandap said about soft ground etc. Some boots and bute if necessary, in the short term. If the horse was sound unshod before, she will come right again. The hoofs will harden up again and/or the horse adjust to what's been done. Get the horse self trimming on tarmac like cptrayes says and you can rasp the rough edges yourself.

I had a farrier butcher my horses feet before and though they looked awful and the horse felt like he had laminitis when riding him, he came sound with a few days box rest and a week in the field, then I rode on sand for a few months before starting again with roads. For years, I needed to rest for 2days, then boot for 2days after any professional trim was done. Then I stopped having people trim and did it myself. I left the hoofs longer, like the horse wanted. No more resting and booting. Now I don't trim at all, the horse does it all on the road.

Try not to panic about your horse they're tougher than we think.

 

[TigerTail]

OP take a really really big deep breath and let it out slowly, and repeat......

This isnt your fault, you trusted someone with more training than you and it went wrong - what horse owner hasnt had that happen?!

Let the horse settle down a bit and adjust to what has been done, try and get some boots and pads so you can walk her out in hand if necessary so that she gets some stimulation to start regrowing hoof.

Do not do a knee jerk reaction and shoe - that would be very uncomfortable for the horse at this point! Just let her be - if its been a rather severe trim then she will be ok for 8 weeks or so anyway.

Keep calm and carry on!!! *hugs*

ETA - suggest you email the trimmer that your horse, who was sound and working fine is now lame and as such you will NOT be requiring her 'services' again! (always good for the anger management!)

 

[cptrayes]

They are not all perfect but why use someone who has done a two week course when you can use someone who has gone through 5 years hard graft and regular exams before qualifying?

Oh please weblec not this rubbish again How about because the courses are actually over a year and during that time they will be taught an order of magnitude more about keeping a hard working horse sound without shoes on than any farrier is taught during his 5 (it's normally 4 years 2 months, actually) years of being taught how to keep horses sound with shoes on.

There are good farriers who know how to do it, but it is a mistake to believe that they are all taught it, because it is NOT in the syllabus.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Trimmers course are not full time and over a year. I have a friend who recently did the training. A handful of horses, a couple of weekends and bob's your Uncle, out and earning money as a trimmer.

Meanwhile my farriers apprentices are working 6 days a week starting before light and often still working away til 7pm at night. They do a good trim for working horses too but without the fancy prices.

 

[amandap]

There are good farriers who know how to do it, but it is a mistake to believe that they are all taught it, because it is NOT in the syllabus.

It really is time it was in the syllabus! Farrier training is missing a big trick here and letting horses and owners down. Bit like Strasser trimmers have to learn again (on their own!) how to trim hard working barefoot horses...

Training should prepare students fully for what they will have to do/advise in the real world to keep horses comfortable. Too many owners are having to pluck up the courage to go it alone! It's just not good enough imo.

 

[YasandCrystal]

This debate is always the same the farrier v trimmers.

The point is imo you can't beat a GOOD open minded farrier, but (I am a farrier's wife) I also concede that there are some really poor ones out there and actually I would probably prefer to see a self trim to the really poor work.
A good farrier should be recommending BF holidays for shod horses and also recommending BF where they feel the horse and owner can manage that.

There are some really bad trimmers out there too and one has to remember training time aside that trimmers generally see a lot less horses than farriers, hence probably the reason they charge so much more. As for the feeding advice - that doesn't really wash these days as any 'interested' owner will look at the web and understand about a healthy hoof diet.

Another important point to me is that BF shoud largely be self maintaining if your horse is doing the correct varied work.

 

[amandap]

This debate is always the same the farrier v trimmers.

Actually I don't think it is in this case. The training of farriers and trimmers is being questioned.

 

[YasandCrystal]

Actually I don't think it is in this case. The training of farriers and trimmers is being questioned.

Ok are we absolutely sure that BF trimming is not now being included in the syllabus? I would be surprised if it's not. My husband who is long qualified has learnt about trimming a working foot and certainly if he had an apprentice he would be imparting that knowledge and the dietary advice he has learnt about.
The number of BF horses has risen significantly over the past few years in our experience.

 

[Tinypony]

Trimmers course are not full time and over a year. I have a friend who recently did the training. A handful of horses, a couple of weekends and bob's your Uncle, out and earning money as a trimmer.

Working as a trimmer accredited by one of the professional organisations? In which case, which one please?
Or is she someone who has been on an owners course and taken it upon herself to start charging people?
Is she insured would be a good question.

 

[cptrayes]

Trimmers course are not full time and over a year. I have a friend who recently did the training.

And neither are farriers.

A handful of horses, a couple of weekends and bob's your Uncle, out and earning money as a trimmer.

That is not any recognised trimming qualification. So you are not comparing like with like. Your friend has done "some" training. They certainly have not done "the" training which takes thousands of pounds and many, many months.

Meanwhile my farriers apprentices are working 6 days a week starting before light and often still working away til 7pm at night. They do a good trim for working horses too but without the fancy prices.

You farriers apprentices will be better trained than most, if your farrier has hardworking barefoot horses on his books. If the master that they train with does not have hardworking barefoot horses on his books, they won't learn about them at all. The FRC should sort this out pronto.


There are good trimmers and bad trimmers. There are good farriers and bad farriers.

But the standards could be made much more consistent if all trimmers who charged had to be qualified with one of the organisations which subscribe to the NOS standards, and if all farriers were required by their syllabus to learn about hardworking barefoot horses and barefoot rehabilitation of poor feet.

 

[amandap]

Ok are we absolutely sure that BF trimming is not now being included in the syllabus? I would be surprised if it's not. My husband who is long qualified has learnt about trimming a working foot and certainly if he had an apprentice he would be imparting that knowledge and the dietary advice he has learnt about.

Good point, I made the assumption CPT knows the syllabus off by heart. Was the diet advice taught in your OH's training too then?

ps. Did your husband learn about trimming a working foot in his training or is it something he has learned since?

 

[cptrayes]

Ok are we absolutely sure that BF trimming is not now being included in the syllabus? I would be surprised if it's not..

What they learn is dependant on what their master has on his books. If the master does not believe that horses can do lots of roadwork with no shoes on then he will teach that to his apprentice. If the master believes that the only way to help a horse with navicular is with bar shoes, then that's what he'll teach his apprentice.

The syllabus as written pays the tiniest of lip service to horses working without shoes on.

 

[cptrayes]

Good point, I made the assumption CPT knows the syllabus off by heart. Was the diet advice taught in your OH's training too then?

ps. Did your husband learn about trimming a working foot in his training or is it something he has learned since?

It is freely available online. I suggest anyone who is interested reads it.

 

[cptrayes]

The full syllabus does not appear to be available right now, but here is the practical marking sheet, for the practical exam. You will see from it that there is no requirement to be able to demonstrate trimming a foot for any purpose than the fitting of a shoe. Most trimming for the purposes of fitting a shoe requires removal of callouses to provide a flat plane for the shoe to sit on and would render most barefoot horses unsound.

http://www.wcf.org.uk/files/Annex F Practical Marking Sheet.pdf

 

[YasandCrystal]

Good point, I made the assumption CPT knows the syllabus off by heart. Was the diet advice taught in your OH's training too then?

ps. Did your husband learn about trimming a working foot in his training or is it something he has learned since?

This is all learnt by him since his training. I think the problem is like with many professions you will get those who are dedicated and are open to and will learn new techniques.