Struggling to get on

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littlelessbloom

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I need a bit of help because I'm at my wits end.

My pony has never been easy to get on. Started off bad, got a bit better, then bad again, a bit better, bad again etc. She will stand by the mounting block if I'm by her head, but as soon as I pick up the reins or stand on the mounting block, she backs up. If someone's holding her, she'll probably bite them but she won't move.

She's also difficult to 'catch' in the stable until I put a lead rope round her neck, awkward to groom on her neck/face unless I have tied her up but absolutely fine to tack up now - she used to bite when saddle went on/girth done up but since being treated for ulcers, there's no issue.

Her teeth have been done recently, saddle has been checked every few months during the time I've had her with us getting a brand new saddle last year. She's been cleared for ulcers as mentioned above.

When I'm on, she's absolutely fine. She's a bit behind the leg when we do flatwork, but the only issue we are having is the right rein canter as mentioned in a previous thread. Our trot/canter transitions could do with being better but, again, that's just when we are doing flatwork. If we are jumping or doing poles, her transitions are spot on. She works over her back when warmed up, tracks up nicely, jumps nicely and doesn't refuse.

Also, some mounting blocks she's easier with than others.

Training issue? Probably, as I've never really taken the time to properly train her to stand there and usually result in either not riding or getting someone to hold her.

I know it could also be pain related, but I also know it can be a money pit if you start x-raying/investigating everything.

Anyone had issues like these and can give me any tips?
 
littlelessbloom said:
I need a bit of help because I'm at my wits end.

My pony has never been easy to get on. Started off bad, got a bit better, then bad again, a bit better, bad again etc. She will stand by the mounting block if I'm by her head, but as soon as I pick up the reins or stand on the mounting block, she backs up. If someone's holding her, she'll probably bite them but she won't move.

She's also difficult to 'catch' in the stable until I put a lead rope round her neck, awkward to groom on her neck/face unless I have tied her up but absolutely fine to tack up now - she used to bite when saddle went on/girth done up but since being treated for ulcers, there's no issue.

Her teeth have been done recently, saddle has been checked every few months during the time I've had her with us getting a brand new saddle last year. She's been cleared for ulcers as mentioned above.



Training issue? Probably, as I've never really taken the time to properly train her to stand there and usually result in either not riding or
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I think you've answered your own question. Either learn to vault on or take time to train her. Go back to basics.
 
This sounds like potentially a few things going on at once, but on the face of it, yes this absolutely can be just a training thing.

Horses don't naturally stand at the mounting block or let you brush their heads, you have to teach them what you want them to learn, and not inadvertently reinforce the reactions they have that you don't want.

It doesn't generally take a long time to teach a pain-free horse to stand at the block and wait patiently but you do have to be ultra consistent and not in a rush to just get on and get going.
If there's some remembered pain it may take a bit longer but if she's generally good to ride I would not anticipate a big issue. I'd expect to put 30 mins to an hour at the start to just quietly re-park her and teach her to stay put at the beginning and then subsequent days it should improve reasonably quickly. Basically when you start to address it I wouldn't aim to do a lot of ridden work because if it's been a lengthy session at the block you'll both be mentally tired.

Likewise you can teach her to accept being brushed calmly but will need to spend time patiently showing her its ok and she can accept it quietly even if its not her favourite thing.

The main thing is training yourself, as her handler, to be consistent and calm/ patient enough to put the time in on this and not revert back to letting her move around because you can't be bothered to teach her that day.
 
Milliepops - I think that's my problem and where the issue has stemmed from: I am a naturally impatient person that I do get frustrated and just want to get on and ride. I managed to get her to be somewhat good before with a lightweight mounting block that I was told to move to her side whenever she moved. Even after a few months, she'd always move but then she'd just sort of sigh and be like ok fine get on. But I've lost access to the lightweight mounting block and have to use a heavier one which I can't move around so easily. I'm guessing that that training didn't really help the situation as she was still able and allowed to move.

I also want to just say, as soon as I get on, she doesn't rush to hurry off. I know that that's a big factor in a lot of pain-related mounting issues but I could literally get on and spend 5 minutes chatting to someone before I start working. (Unless we are hacking and then she wants to go but I'm presuming that's because we get on at a different block and she knows that we are hacking)
 
Ok so you need to get on top of your own frustration because with things like this you have to exude "zen" and you can't let the horse press your buttons. I would always re-park the horse at the block rather than move the block, because at a show or out on a hack, you may need to get on from an object that you can't move.

That's why I personally prepare myself to calmly spend an hour on it when I get a wriggler to work with, it means you aren't getting twitchy if they still move their feet after 20mins. You have to really buy into it, to fix it.
 
littlelessbloom said:
I managed to get her to be somewhat good before with a lightweight mounting block that I was told to move to her side whenever she moved. Even after a few months, she'd always move but then she'd just sort of sigh and be like ok fine get on. But I've lost access to the lightweight mounting block and have to use a heavier one which I can't move around so easily.
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I have a small, three-step stepladder that I initially bought to keep in my horsebox as an out-and-about mounting block, but which was so useful I now use it all the time. A friend's horse would never stand at a solid mounting block, but was happy to stand at the stepladder, and this training has carried over to a solid block.
 
That makes sense, thank you. I am going to block out time to spend on just getting on instead of planning what I'm going to do schooling-wise. I know it'll take time, but I just want to be able to park and get on without someone holding her. It's a strange thing when you're jealous of how easy people can get on their horses!

Obviously my mind has gone to it being pain-related (especially KS), but if people don't immediately think the same then that's good.
 
Pippity said:
I have a small, three-step stepladder that I initially bought to keep in my horsebox as an out-and-about mounting block, but which was so useful I now use it all the time. A friend's horse would never stand at a solid mounting block, but was happy to stand at the stepladder, and this training has carried over to a solid block.
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That's sort of what I was using. But like I said, she would still fidget at it until eventually I guess she got bored of fidgeting or it was just easier to let me on? But even the last time I used it, about a month or so ago, she was still fidgety at it. But it did go from about 45 minutes to 5 minutes so there was some improvement
 
I must also add that her back has been done by a chiro 2 weeks ago who said there was nothing unusual. I know obviously the chiro doesn't have x-ray vision, but she wasn't concerned
 
Good advice here - but maybe the first couple of times when you get on and she has been good give her huge amounts of praise for a few minutes and get off.
If you think about it, being made to work hard when someone finally gets on you isn’t much of an incentive to be good!!
 
I would use titbits - at first give them straight away and increase time she has to stand with you on before she gets them. Patience is the key.
 
My only experiences of horses who were tricky at the mounting block were pain related and as soon as the pain was resolved the behaviour improved dramatically. I know you say veterinary investigations can become a ‘money pit’ but if there is a physical issue would you not wish to get to the bottom of it?
 
I agree with all the above comments - you need to set aside some time to train your horse to stand quietly at the mounting block whilst you get on. I had a pony who was tricky to mount - I spent one session literally just standing him up to the block, getting on, walking round the field, then getting off & doing it all again. Did this for a good 1/2 hour then a walk up the road which he enjoyed then put him back in field. Repeated the following day & never had another problem with him. He would then stand up to gates, logs, banks, anything I asked. Just takes a little time, patience and lots of praise when he stands quietly. Good luck!
 
Flicker said:
My only experiences of horses who were tricky at the mounting block were pain related and as soon as the pain was resolved the behaviour improved dramatically. I know you say veterinary investigations can become a ‘money pit’ but if there is a physical issue would you not wish to get to the bottom of it?
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Yeah, don't get me wrong, I am willing to investigate if it's a pain related issue. I just wouldn't know where to start. From experience, if you tell the vet what's wrong, they will do everything and anything which is great if you can afford it but I can't. The mounting issue is one of the reasons I called the vet out when she was diagnosed with ulcers. 90% of the other symptoms have gone now since she's been treated and scoped clear of them. It's just the mounting issue and the 'catching' in the stable issue.
 
Pippity said:
I have a small, three-step stepladder that I initially bought to keep in my horsebox as an out-and-about mounting block, but which was so useful I now use it all the time. A friend's horse would never stand at a solid mounting block, but was happy to stand at the stepladder, and this training has carried over to a solid block.[/QUOTE

I have the same thing but Dad put a 'box' on top made of wood which clasps on that fix to the claspy thing that he fixed on the ladders.

This was because when I did my disc in my back I couldn't literally get my leg up. It's really handy as it's given me a good 6" of height that I wouldn't have had for my stepladders. When I tow to the local pub car park as the area has some lovely hacking I have to leave it at the side of the trailer and always worry about it getting stolen, but touch wood it hasn't so far.
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Doesnt want to be mounted, behind the leg and struggles to bend to the right in canter.
Pain.
You need to find the cause of the ulcers.
I appreciate noone has an endless supply of money but you have a responsibility to make sure your horse isn't hurting. Shes only got so many ways to show you shes unhappy.
 
Bellaboo18 said:
Doesnt want to be mounted, behind the leg and struggles to bend to the right in canter.
Pain.
You need to find the cause of the ulcers.
I appreciate noone has an endless supply of money but you have a responsibility to make sure your horse isn't hurting. Shes only got so many ways to show you shes unhappy.
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Okay, so when I ring the vet, where do I tell them where to start? I'm not denying it could be pain and I'm not saying I'm not willing to figure out what the pain is.

I just also know that I haven't been particularly good at training her to stand still at the mounting block
 
littlelessbloom said:
Okay, so when I ring the vet, where do I tell them where to start? I'm not denying it could be pain and I'm not saying I'm not willing to figure out what the pain is.

I just also know that I haven't been particularly good at training her to stand still at the mounting block
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Thats their job and they're only human, tell them your concerns regarding budget.
It's hard to say without seeing your horse but they might have zone days (cheaper call out), come and see her and give you some options.
An xray in itself isn't expensive if you're thinking ks. Hind gut is also something to rule out without costing lots.
Struggling on the right would make me think gut related.
You've already done a lot treating the ulcers but it would be a shame if they came back because the primary cause hadn't been found.
 
I don't think it's ever wrong to get a vets opinion on a problem but from the other post about bending the wrong way on the right rein in canter, this also sounds like a hole in training rather than something that sets alarm bells ringing. I hope you don't take this the wrong way OP, but you have said you are impatient and keen to crack on, so it feels like an extension of the same thing... there's not a quick fix, and some fairly repetitive focused work is what is needed to get to the bottom of these things and really make progress :)

it's not very exciting and you won't get much of an adrenalin rush but it's very satisfying to improve your pony's training and then everything becomes easier and more enjoyable :)
 
Bellaboo18 said:
Thats their job and they're only human, tell them your concerns regarding budget.
It's hard to say without seeing your horse but they might have zone days (cheaper call out), come and see her and give you some options.
An xray in itself isn't expensive if you're thinking ks. Hind gut is also something to rule out without costing lots.
Struggling on the right would make me think gut related.
You've already done a lot treating the ulcers but it would be a shame if they came back because the primary cause hadn't been found.
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I thought they couldn't scope for hind gut? Or am I just showing my ignorance? Also, I know it varies, but how much does an xray cost in general for ks?

milliepops said:
I don't think it's ever wrong to get a vets opinion on a problem but from the other post about bending the wrong way on the right rein in canter, this also sounds like a hole in training rather than something that sets alarm bells ringing. I hope you don't take this the wrong way OP, but you have said you are impatient and keen to crack on, so it feels like an extension of the same thing... there's not a quick fix, and some fairly repetitive focused work is what is needed to get to the bottom of these things and really make progress :)

it's not very exciting and you won't get much of an adrenalin rush but it's very satisfying to improve your pony's training and then everything becomes easier and more enjoyable :)
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Oh definitely not taken the wrong way! I know that if this is a hole in training rather than pain, it's entirely my fault for not properly training her and being patient. I am a perfectionist, so when things don't go right, I get frustrated but it's always at myself never at her.

Also, re the right rein thing, she used to do it in trot too and I thought she was broken until somebody else got on her and they're a lot better rider than me and they managed to get her to bend correctly without force (she doesn't respond well to force anyway!).
 
Some horses are just impatient to get going and anticipate and do not stand well. You don't see anyone trying to make racehorses in the paddock stand still to be mounted. That would be a recipe for mayhem and jockeys are just legged up quickly and with as little fuss as possible. Too much fuss over the whole mounting malarky can be counterproductive depending on the temperament of the horse. I have owned a number of horses and never have they patiently stood to be mounted and then waited to be told to move off. I treated them all the same and have the same expectations but they were all a bit different in the amount of patience they showed. In my younger days it didn't bother me at all, I just hopped on whilst they were in motion if need be and got on with the day. As I get older though, I increasingly am less impressed with horses that will not stand for a few moments at the mounting block for me to safely get on board. What I'm saying is that different riders have different tolerance for this so your horse has probably never been taught properly to be relaxed at the mounting block. If that is what you want, then if saddle etc is all comfortable and you are sure that you mount sympathetically and are not digging your toe into their side and thumping down in the saddle, then it really is a training issue. It does sound from your other comments about handling and schooling generally that your horse may not have been well handled and started in life and so may not have been taught to behave in a civilised manner in the first place. It is all going to depend on the expectation of the rider and being absolutely consistent as to what you expect of the horse. Every single time. And you need to go about it without winding the horse up more, they need to learn to relax and stand at the mounting block. Maybe it would help to make that your focus, rather than getting on. Pay attention to just doing that regularly without getting on until it becomes normal to stand at the block without anyone getting on for a minute or two, then walk away and repeat, and repeat.... Then once you can achieve that, move onto the next stage of mounting sometimes too and sitting for a short period and getting off again - until that is normal and calm too. Break it down into stages and achieve each one calmly before moving on. The important point is not to move on until you have achieved the previous step consistently. If you are impatient it isn't going to work I'm afraid.
 
They cant scope for hind gut so it would be a case of trying a supplement. The succeed test is known for having false negatives.
Just dug out an old invoice and it was £200 for the back xray.
This thread alone is one thing but honestly after reading a few of your threads I'd put money on pain.
Has she stopped biting you when you put on her rugs now? Stopped the running off when you do up her girth? Stopped the angry faces and swishing her tail in canter? She ran off with another confident rider didnt she?
 
I'd agree that, at the moment, I'd pursue the training side and if, despite the training, it continues or even worsens, which is possible, I'd go down the pain route.

I had a similar issue with my boy at the mounting block when I first had him 7 months ago. He wouldn't walk off or react to me getting on but would spin his back end away from the block every time. I set aside a session with no intention of riding, just with the aim of getting on and off him 3 times in a row without him moving from the block. I started by just lining him up, getting him to stand for a few moments then giving him a treat. I then stood on the mounting block near his head and he got a treat and lots of "good boy" once he stood still for a few moments - this took a few attempts as he'd walk off as soon as I stood on there but I just turned him round without talking to him or even looking at him and put him back. I then moved onto standing near the saddle area. This was more tricky as he kept backing up to look for treats so we abandoned the treats and went for nice wither scratches instead. Once he was doing this well, putting some weight over the saddle, then in the stirrup and finally getting on were the next stages with lots of scratches and praise for standing still. The whole thing took about 45 minutes and then about 10 minutes the next day. Since then I've got on him first time, almost every time with just one or two little blips.
 
Leandy said:
Some horses are just impatient to get going and anticipate and do not stand well. You don't see anyone trying to make racehorses in the paddock stand still to be mounted. That would be a recipe for mayhem and jockeys are just legged up quickly and with as little fuss as possible. Too much fuss over the whole mounting malarky can be counterproductive depending on the temperament of the horse. I have owned a number of horses and never have they patiently stood to be mounted and then waited to be told to move off. I treated them all the same and have the same expectations but they were all a bit different in the amount of patience they showed. In my younger days it didn't bother me at all, I just hopped on whilst they were in motion if need be and got on with the day. As I get older though, I increasingly am less impressed with horses that will not stand for a few moments at the mounting block for me to safely get on board. What I'm saying is that different riders have different tolerance for this so your horse has probably never been taught properly to be relaxed at the mounting block. If that is what you want, then if saddle etc is all comfortable and you are sure that you mount sympathetically and are not digging your toe into their side and thumping down in the saddle, then it really is a training issue. It does sound from your other comments about handling and schooling generally that your horse may not have been well handled and started in life and so may not have been taught to behave in a civilised manner in the first place. It is all going to depend on the expectation of the rider and being absolutely consistent as to what you expect of the horse. Every single time. And you need to go about it without winding the horse up more, they need to learn to relax and stand at the mounting block. Maybe it would help to make that your focus, rather than getting on. Pay attention to just doing that regularly without getting on until it becomes normal to stand at the block without anyone getting on for a minute or two, then walk away and repeat, and repeat.... Then once you can achieve that, move onto the next stage of mounting sometimes too and sitting for a short period and getting off again - until that is normal and calm too. Break it down into stages and achieve each one calmly before moving on. The important point is not to move on until you have achieved the previous step consistently. If you are impatient it isn't going to work I'm afraid.
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Unfortunately, I have found out she wasn't very well handled before me. I'm not entirely sure how she was broken in, but I think it was done by amateurs and whilst I know some amateurs who have broken in some amazing horses, an amateur breaking in a pony that's already been through a traumatic situation is possibly the reason for this if it's not pain.

Bellaboo18 said:
They cant scope for hind gut so it would be a case of trying a supplement. The succeed test is known for having false negatives.
Just dug out an old invoice and it was £200 for the back xray.
This thread alone is one thing but honestly after reading a few of your threads I'd put money on pain.
Has she stopped biting you when you put on her rugs now? Stopped the running off when you do up her girth? Stopped the angry faces and swishing her tail in canter? She ran off with another confident rider didnt she?
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Okay, thank you. I will look into back xrays.
Yes, stopped biting when putting rugs on.
Yes, stopped running off when I do her girth up.
Yes, stopped angry faces and swishing tail in canter.

She did, but if you'd read what I'd put in that thread, she's done that before but has also been very, very well behaved with other riders of varying abilities. So, whilst if it was a standalone case, I'd agree it would be cause for concern but the fact it's happened before but also not happened before (if that makes sense), it's not too concerning. I am thinking of asking another girl at the yard to have a sit on her (someone who's a lot better than me but is also very quiet) to see how many of her issues are mine and how many are pony's.
 
littlelessbloom said:
Unfortunately, I have found out she wasn't very well handled before me. I'm not entirely sure how she was broken in, but I think it was done by amateurs and whilst I know some amateurs who have broken in some amazing horses, an amateur breaking in a pony that's already been through a traumatic situation is possibly the reason for this if it's not pain.



Okay, thank you. I will look into back xrays.
Yes, stopped biting when putting rugs on.
Yes, stopped running off when I do her girth up.
Yes, stopped angry faces and swishing tail in canter.

She did, but if you'd read what I'd put in that thread, she's done that before but has also been very, very well behaved with other riders of varying abilities. So, whilst if it was a standalone case, I'd agree it would be cause for concern but the fact it's happened before but also not happened before (if that makes sense), it's not too concerning. I am thinking of asking another girl at the yard to have a sit on her (someone who's a lot better than me but is also very quiet) to see how many of her issues are mine and how many are pony's.
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You're obviously a caring owner, good luck and let us know how you get on.
 
In my experience, vets are usually pretty good at identifying at least a starting point based on a clear history. So, reluctance to be mounted, behind the leg in the school, issues on one rein in canter and unwillingness to be handled in the stable start to paint a picture. Also, most vets are pretty understanding when it comes to budget. Some people have endless money to throw at something, others don’t.
What would generally happen in my experience is that the vet would come out, do a general lameness / pain workup and move from one area to the next. This may involve nerve blocks depending on where they think the pain may be located.
Also, remember, common things occur commonly. Depending on the age, type and build of the pony, the vet may start with more common causes of lameness in that type. So, for example, I have always had big ISH types. From about the age of 13, they are really predisposed to arthritis in the hocks and feet. So, lameness workups have generally focussed on locating which leg, then x-raying the joint for signs of changes and medicating from there.
This can often all be done on the yard without the need for transport to horsepital or really expensive investigations. Personally, I don’t have the money for this and most of the time the veterinary advice that I have been given in this situation is that a diagnosis may be possible with this level of intervention, but based on the clinical symptoms of the horse involved it was unlikely to make any difference to her prognosis for recovery so I chose to PTS.
If it was me, I would probably give my vet a ring, arrange a time when they are able to have a proper conversation with you and just talk through what you are noticing, how long it has been going on for and any concerns you have. If they are a good, caring vet, they should have some suggestions for what to do next.
Good luck, I really hope you and your pony are able to resolve this together xx
 
Flicker said:
In my experience, vets are usually pretty good at identifying at least a starting point based on a clear history. So, reluctance to be mounted, behind the leg in the school, issues on one rein in canter and unwillingness to be handled in the stable start to paint a picture. Also, most vets are pretty understanding when it comes to budget. Some people have endless money to throw at something, others don’t.
What would generally happen in my experience is that the vet would come out, do a general lameness / pain workup and move from one area to the next. This may involve nerve blocks depending on where they think the pain may be located.
Also, remember, common things occur commonly. Depending on the age, type and build of the pony, the vet may start with more common causes of lameness in that type. So, for example, I have always had big ISH types. From about the age of 13, they are really predisposed to arthritis in the hocks and feet. So, lameness workups have generally focussed on locating which leg, then x-raying the joint for signs of changes and medicating from there.
This can often all be done on the yard without the need for transport to horsepital or really expensive investigations. Personally, I don’t have the money for this and most of the time the veterinary advice that I have been given in this situation is that a diagnosis may be possible with this level of intervention, but based on the clinical symptoms of the horse involved it was unlikely to make any difference to her prognosis for recovery so I chose to PTS.
If it was me, I would probably give my vet a ring, arrange a time when they are able to have a proper conversation with you and just talk through what you are noticing, how long it has been going on for and any concerns you have. If they are a good, caring vet, they should have some suggestions for what to do next.
Good luck, I really hope you and your pony are able to resolve this together xx
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Thank you. This is what I did in the first instance and they came up, did flexion tests that all went fine(although I know they're not 100% spot on for locating all types of lameness) and then we scoped. She had a few ulcers, so we went ahead with 4 weeks of medication and a rescope. Over that time, the majority of her issues went but a few were still lingering. To be fair, she did get slightly better to get on and she wasn't as awkward in the stable. We then rescoped and all clear. Told to come off medication. Should I put her back on the medication and see if that has any affect? The other symptoms such as being girthy etc are still completely gone. Or do I ring the vet again and ask them to do more tests or do I wait until I've at least tried to see if it's behavioural? I obviously want to do what's best for her.
 
On a side note, the easing of getting on her seems to occur in the summer. Like I said, still not the easiest but I'm not sure if that's got any correlation or if I'm just looking too far into things for answers.
 
littlelessbloom said:
Thank you. This is what I did in the first instance and they came up, did flexion tests that all went fine(although I know they're not 100% spot on for locating all types of lameness) and then we scoped. She had a few ulcers, so we went ahead with 4 weeks of medication and a rescope. Over that time, the majority of her issues went but a few were still lingering. To be fair, she did get slightly better to get on and she wasn't as awkward in the stable. We then rescoped and all clear. Told to come off medication. Should I put her back on the medication and see if that has any affect? The other symptoms such as being girthy etc are still completely gone. Or do I ring the vet again and ask them to do more tests or do I wait until I've at least tried to see if it's behavioural? I obviously want to do what's best for her.
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Was she on omeprazole? Gastrogard or peptizole? These drugs should be weaned off gradually.
 
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