Stupid out hacking, related to being field boss?

Auslander

Auslander

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Ive been thinking (this is quite a rare occurence!)

Alf always used to be the low ranker in the field, and was also known as the hangover horse for hacking. Since I moved to my own place, and Lola came back into his life, he has always been the boss, and took his responsibilities VERY seriously. He is very sharp and silly out hacking - always looking for things to spook at, and rarely goes a whole hack without a dramatic spook/spin/attempt to sod off back from whence he came. He's been on holiday since Lola died, and Jim, the new guy, has taken over the No1 spot. Alf has been really relaxed and happy in the field since he dropped down the pecking order, and I wonder if his idiotic behaviour out hacking has been related to leaving his girl and his herd unsupervised.

I'm going to hack him out today, and see how he behaves.
 
possibly more to do with feeling insecure without a more confident horse around to look out for them all.
I don't think horse really look for things to spook at, it cannot be a nice place to be mentally (apprehensive), if they are spooking they are at best alert for a reason at worst scared witless.
sounds like his new field companion makes him feel more relaxed.
 
twiggy2 said:
possibly more to do with feeling insecure without a more confident horse around to look out for them all.
I don't think horse really look for things to spook at, it cannot be a nice place to be mentally (apprehensive), if they are spooking they are at best alert for a reason at worst scared witless.
sounds like his new field companion makes him feel more relaxed.
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He's not a horse who lacks confidence though. He has hacked all over the New Forest alone for most of his life, meeting all sorts of weird and wonderful things, and was never unduly spooky. When I first got him, he was turned out with a group where he was well down the pecking order, and remained very sane to hack. His explosiveness, which always results in him attempting to head home at high speed, has started since Lola (who he was obsessed with) joined his herd.
 
maybe he does not rest so easy if he is up the rankings in the herd and it makes him a bit more edgy?
maybe he just wanted to be with the lad in his life?
some horses are not born leaders and it can create stress
 
I used to have a mare who was top dog and was a peach to hack out.
I don't think it's possible to pin hole them like that.
In your boys case it may be what happens, it will be very interesting to see, please let us know.
My mare was always top dog.
 
Sounds like he isn't a natural leader and finds it stressful. Mine loves to lead and gets a little bit sulky if she's made to follow another out hacking and she rarely spooks at anything.
 
twiggy2 said:
maybe he does not rest so easy if he is up the rankings in the herd and it makes him a bit more edgy?
maybe he just wanted to be with the lad in his life?
some horses are not born leaders and it can create stress
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Thats what I think may be the case. He went from being the underdog to the boss ina very short space of time, and was a very 'busy' herd leader - always on the prowl making sure standards were upheld - so on reflection it probably was stressful for him to be taken away from his herd! I was a bit peeved when Jim took over and started pushing him around, until I noticed how calm he had become!
 
teabiscuit said:
I used to have a mare who was top dog and was a peach to hack out.
I don't think it's possible to pin hole them like that.
In your boys case it may be what happens, it will be very interesting to see, please let us know.
My mare was always top dog.
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I could well be completely wrong, but it's just interesting that he is so much calmer in the field - be interesting to see if the new attitude extends to leaving the field.
 
Kat said:
Sounds like he isn't a natural leader and finds it stressful. Mine loves to lead and gets a little bit sulky if she's made to follow another out hacking and she rarely spooks at anything.
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He always leads out hacking - even when hes being a wally! Nothing else can keep up with him when he's got his march on!
 
Only a small sample but the most confident hackers I've known have been herd leaders. The spooky ones have been lower down the ranks.
 
Bernster said:
Only a small sample but the most confident hackers I've known have been herd leaders. The spooky ones have been lower down the ranks.
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I guess he's the exception to the rule! Having said that, I wouldn't say he is under-confident out hacking - he prefers to be in front when in company, hacks alone and isn't nappy. When he's in one of his silly moods, he spooks at things that aren't there, and ignores things that would send most horses into orbit. He's special!
 
Yes, I would think that's very likely - purely because I have a horse for whom being in a position of leadership upsets him. He has to know that someone else is in charge (either human or horse), and when he is suddenly in charge in any area of his life it upsets his inner 'zen' :)

I had a real problem for a while when he was young because he would be an angel for me to handle but with someone else on the end of the rope who allowed him to lope along he wouldbe very silly, and I could always tell when I came up later in the day because he would be all out of sorts and then uncharacteristically nervy to ride.

He has a good brain and I think he just over thinks things a little, and although not at all needy or particularly nervous I think he is prone to being a bit of a worrier. Not sure if Alf is remotely similar, but just thought I'd share.

Should also add that my horse is great to hack - alone and in company
 
DabDab said:
Yes, I would think that's very likely - purely because I have a horse for whom being in a position of leadership upsets him. He has to know that someone else is in charge (either human or horse), and when he is suddenly in charge in any area of his life it upsets his inner 'zen' :)

I had a real problem for a while when he was young because he would be an angel for me to handle but with someone else on the end of the rope who allowed him to lope along he wouldbe very silly, and I could always tell when I came up later in the day because he would be all out of sorts and then uncharacteristically nervy to ride.

He has a good brain and I think he just over thinks things a little, and although not at all needy or particularly nervous I think he is prone to being a bit of a worrier. Not sure if Alf is remotely similar, but just thought I'd share.

Should also add that my horse is great to hack - alone and in company
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You could be describing Alf here! He takes any sort of responsibility very seriously, and although he chose to assume the herd leader role, and was very good at it, he was always very much on high alert. He's almost breathed a sigh of relief now that Jim has taken over. Funny you should say that about other handlers, as he is noticeably more tense when someone else does him. Hes also not keen on being ridden by new people - he has a rap sheet as long as my arm for dumping people when they first get on him. He used to try it with me in the early days, but it doesn't even cross his mind nowadays. He's also happy for other people to get on if I'm there - he reckons that if I'm ok with them riding him, he's ok with it too!

Despite his outbursts, hes my favourite horse to hack ever. I forgive him the prattish bits, because he's lovely the rest of the time!
 
Bernster said:
Only a small sample but the most confident hackers I've known have been herd leaders. The spooky ones have been lower down the ranks.
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not sure about this. Last horse who was as bold as anything, top hoss in field, always wanted to be in front, 110% in traffic, never refused an obstacle etc had a massive spook in him-usually when I was daydreaming/birdwatching etc and usually at something like a rock, daffodil or suspicious looking blackbird on a fence. I wouldn't have classed him as spooky as he wasn't all the time or at everything but he was sharp. Once I'd learned to ride it, I would laugh and he'd do a little nose toss as if to say ha! We mostly hacked alone, for hours-can't remember him ever napping or refusing to go forwards.

Auslander, a behaviourist would look at the horse's body language while he was spooking, as well as taking a detailed history of when it occurred. How the horse spooks can indicate whether it's discomfort, insecurity, plain high spirits or being a little testing. Not saying you want or need one but you could well be correct-changes in management/herd dynamics can often lead to changes in ridden behaviour.
 
We used to have a Clydesdale mare, who was the herd leader, who exuded confidence in virtually every situation you can think of. She once led 2 nervous complete strangers, as well as her own scaredy-cat companion, past a bus on a very narrow road with cars waiting to cross the junction. She would hack out on her own but always wanted to rush on the way back. She was absolutely fine if she was out with any of her field companions. We used to laughingly say that she didn't trust them to manage without her but actually, if she went out with the also very confident cob, who was definitely 2nd in the herd, leaving the 2 numpties together in the field with no-one in charge, she didn't try to rush.
My current riding horse is also the boss in her field but is not as confident about asserting her authority and can be challenged by some horses. However she is extremely confident when hacking alone. She is actually more likely to react to something if her companion does, than when she is on her own.
I shall be interested to hear how Alf goes on today.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
not sure about this. Last horse who was as bold as anything, top hoss in field, always wanted to be in front, 110% in traffic, never refused an obstacle etc had a massive spook in him-usually when I was daydreaming/birdwatching etc and usually at something like a rock, daffodil or suspicious looking blackbird on a fence. I wouldn't have classed him as spooky as he wasn't all the time or at everything but he was sharp. Once I'd learned to ride it, I would laugh and he'd do a little nose toss as if to say ha! We mostly hacked alone, for hours-can't remember him ever napping or refusing to go forwards.

Auslander, a behaviourist would look at the horse's body language while he was spooking, as well as taking a detailed history of when it occurred. How the horse spooks can indicate whether it's discomfort, insecurity, plain high spirits or being a little testing. Not saying you want or need one but you could well be correct-changes in management/herd dynamics can often lead to changes in ridden behaviour.
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I'd be fascinated to see what a behaviourist thought of him. He comes across as very bold, and when he's not spooky, he's very forward going - he'll go anywhere and pass anything on the buckle end of the reins. I can tell the moment I get on him whether he's going to be silly or not - he's very black and white (in a bay kind of way!) Even if I deem him to be in a stressy mood, I hack him on a long rein - if I don't, he jogs, canters on the spot, head waves and spooks the whole ride, rather than just during the isolated incidents!

When he does the spook and spin, it feels quite considered. He'll be marching along, then he'll suddenly slam the brakes on, jump backwards, then spin and drop a shoulder. If I'm not lightening fast at picking up the reins, he'll set his jaw, and tank off down the road as if the hounds of hell are after him. I usually catch him in time - he'll bounce up and down on the spot, then when I turn him round, he'll walk on as if nothing has happened, ignoring whatever it was that he deemed worthy of a massive spook! If I give him a kick/smack him when he first slams the brakes on, he'll squeal, wave his head around and bounce, but then walk on normally!

He's not a young horse btw - he's 18, very well educated, and has seen a lot in his life. He's had a lot more freedom over the last few years - previously he was in a competition yard environment, with individual turnout, and a lot more structured work than he gets now. He's out 24/7, has the winter off, and mainly hacks nowadays, with the odd play in the school when we feel like it.
 
Auslander said:
Despite his outbursts, hes my favourite horse to hack ever. I forgive him the prattish bits, because he's lovely the rest of the time!
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You see, I have seen a lot of posts from you which comment on neck straps for hacking this one, first time in a while hacking this one, how absolutely silly he has been... and it is always with affection, and dare I say it fun (although I am aware that not every second is fun!).

I suspect Alf knows the above quote, he knows you inside out and is jesting you, becasue you do not REALLY mind, most of the time at least.

OH's horse was like this, would behave well with a nervous person and be a pratt with someone who would enjoy the comedy. In fact Jay can be a bit like it too. Neither of them seemed to drop people though, although some days I can feel he sails a bit close to the wind!

Edited to add - it was like a rite of passage when Charlie trusted you, that you were good enough and had a sense of humour, so he could be a pratt.
 
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Red-1 said:
You see, I have seen a lot of posts from you which comment on neck straps for hacking this one, first time in a while hacking this one, how absolutely silly he has been... and it is always with affection, and dare I say it fun (although I am aware that not every second is fun!).

I suspect Alf knows the above quote, he knows you inside out and is jesting you, becasue you do not REALLY mind, most of the time at least.

OH's horse was like this, would behave well with a nervous person and be a pratt with someone who would enjoy the comedy. In fact Jay can be a bit like it too. Neither of them seemed to drop people though, although some days I can feel he sails a bit close to the wind!

Edited to add - it was like a rite of passage when Charlie trusted you, that you were good enough and had a sense of humour, so he could be a pratt.
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You've got me! Even when he is a real plonker, I love hacking him! I've only come close to coming off him once, when I hacked him in a leather saddle (his saddle has a suede seat), and I rarely feel unsafe on him, even when he is on a meltdown mission (there has been one instance where I seriously considered getting off and walking home!). Most of our hacks have an element of drama in them, but we always come back with a big grin on both our faces!

I'm very careful about who else is allowed to hack him alone- not because I think I'm the only person who can ride my precious pony, but because I am the only person who knows exactly what's going to happen when he goes off at a tangent - and how to manage it!
 
Auslander said:
You've got me! Even when he is a real plonker, I love hacking him! I've only come close to coming off him once, when I hacked him in a leather saddle (his saddle has a suede seat), and I rarely feel unsafe on him, even when he is on a meltdown mission (there has been one instance where I seriously considered getting off and walking home!). Most of our hacks have an element of drama in them, but we always come back with a big grin on both our faces!

I'm very careful about who else is allowed to hack him alone- not because I think I'm the only person who can ride my precious pony, but because I am the only person who knows exactly what's going to happen when he goes off at a tangent - and how to manage it!
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Ah well, you have got me as there was one occasion where I did get of Jay Man and drag him home, whilst lecturing him on what a pig he was, whilst not believing a word of it. I mean, a stubble field was exciting, a bicycle was an addition we could have done without, but the cyclist stopping and getting out a map was a step too far.....

... see I understand because I make all the excuses in the world for Jay. He really does keep me safe though.
 
Red-1 said:
Ah well, you have got me as there was one occasion where I did get of Jay Man and drag him home, whilst lecturing him on what a pig he was, whilst not believing a word of it. I mean, a stubble field was exciting, a bicycle was an addition we could have done without, but the cyclist stopping and getting out a map was a step too far.....

... see I understand because I make all the excuses in the world for Jay. He really does keep me safe though.
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Mine was when we finally got through the ford (after several months of trying, and him saying that water was dangerous and dressage horses didn't have to go in it!). He finally manned up and went in, following a girl on a little mare who appeared from nowhere and gave us a lead. He stopped to have a splash and a drink, then realised that the mare had gone - she'd got to the other side and cantered off up the bridlepath.

Well - blow me if he didn't throw everything in his repertoire at me. He jogged, cantered on the spot, piaffed, passaged, levade'd, courbette'd, leapt, bronced, reversed at high speed - the list goes on. He was an absolute nutjob, and there were deep ditches on either side of the bridlepath. I knew if I trotted on that he was going to explode completely, and I knew that if I turned round, he was also going to explode. I got him moving forward in a forward/upward/sideward sort of way, hung onto the neckstrap for dear life, and tried not to touch his mouth or his sides, whilst saying "Good Boy, Good Boy" through gritted teeth. The temptation to get off was pretty huge. I got myself through the hellish mile of bridlepath wildness by saying "If you get to that tree, you can get off if he's still being dangerous" and so on and so forth. Finally got to the end of the bridlepath, and he felt tarmac under his feet and started behaving! He was white with foam all over - and I was white with fear!!
 
Auslander said:
Mine was when we finally got through the ford (after several months of trying, and him saying that water was dangerous and dressage horses didn't have to go in it!). He finally manned up and went in, following a girl on a little mare who appeared from nowhere and gave us a lead. He stopped to have a splash and a drink, then realised that the mare had gone - she'd got to the other side and cantered off up the bridlepath.

Well - blow me if he didn't throw everything in his repertoire at me. He jogged, cantered on the spot, piaffed, passaged, levade'd, courbette'd, leapt, bronced, reversed at high speed - the list goes on. He was an absolute nutjob, and there were deep ditches on either side of the bridlepath. I knew if I trotted on that he was going to explode completely, and I knew that if I turned round, he was also going to explode. I got him moving forward in a forward/upward/sideward sort of way, hung onto the neckstrap for dear life, and tried not to touch his mouth or his sides, whilst saying "Good Boy, Good Boy" through gritted teeth. The temptation to get off was pretty huge. I got myself through the hellish mile of bridlepath wildness by saying "If you get to that tree, you can get off if he's still being dangerous" and so on and so forth. Finally got to the end of the bridlepath, and he felt tarmac under his feet and started behaving! He was white with foam all over - and I was white with fear!!
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Mine can throw himself about a bit, but if I start to fall off he stops, replaces his sensible head, and even catches me if I have slipped a bit far. We have fun, Jay and I, and I do feel safe on him, even though he came with a very chequered history.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
New pants eh? :wink3:

Glad you made it back to report on what a nit he was!
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This wasn't today! This was his one and only SPECTACULAR meltdown which made me realise what he was capable of when he was really not on side!

I've not ridden him yet - too busy bullying teenage son to carry out 'blue' tasks in the garden!
 
Red-1 said:
Mine can throw himself about a bit, but if I start to fall off he stops, replaces his sensible head, and even catches me if I have slipped a bit far. We have fun, Jay and I, and I do feel safe on him, even though he came with a very chequered history.
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I don't think Alf would try and catch me - he'd probably look at me on the ground, stick his tongue out, say "Ner Ner Ner Ner Ner" and ddo a couple of victory laps, laughing his socks off!

He has a chequered history too - mostly awesome (and quite incredible for a common old Irish bog horse), but some of it a bit hairy (broncing people off for no apparent reason the second their backsides arrived in the saddle!)

He is still the most fabulous horse who ever walked the earth though, even though he can be trying!!

10426634_10152517677570730_1903346336530003725_n.jpg
 
Auslander said:
This wasn't today! This was his one and only SPECTACULAR meltdown which made me realise what he was capable of when he was really not on side!

I've not ridden him yet - too busy bullying teenage son to carry out 'blue' tasks in the garden!
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Lol, that will teach me for skimming till I get to the last paragraph :redface3:
Has son got childline number? :wink3:
 
So much for the hack! Lobbed all his gear in the car, grabbed him, groomed him, put his bridle on, and as I put his saddle on, realised I'd forgotten his girth! Dumbass!
 
Auslander said:
Ive been thinking (this is quite a rare occurence!)

Alf always used to be the low ranker in the field, and was also known as the hangover horse for hacking. Since I moved to my own place, and Lola came back into his life, he has always been the boss, and took his responsibilities VERY seriously. He is very sharp and silly out hacking - always looking for things to spook at, and rarely goes a whole hack without a dramatic spook/spin/attempt to sod off back from whence he came. He's been on holiday since Lola died, and Jim, the new guy, has taken over the No1 spot. Alf has been really relaxed and happy in the field since he dropped down the pecking order, and I wonder if his idiotic behaviour out hacking has been related to leaving his girl and his herd unsupervised.

I'm going to hack him out today, and see how he behaves.
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He's breathing a sigh of relief! No longer has he got to protect his 'bitches'😜 He's retired from professional & personal work!😀
 
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