Such a SAD day for so many fantastic horses ... The Grand National

applecart14 said:
I would just like to say how sickened I was when I watched the replay of the National that we taped earlier in the day. It has made me ashamed to be british and even more ashamed that I put a bet on. You cannot compare racing to eventing. The two are nothing alike. And horses run because they are herd animals and will therefore not be left behind. So they all run to keep up with each other like they would in the wild, safety in numbers, etc. Not because they like taking death defying leaps over fences designed to 'challenge' them.

It is a horrid race, I don't for the life of me know why I watched in and I am digusted with myself for having a bet this morning upon it. RIP the lovely horses who gave their lives in the name of 'sport'.

And I agree with Dovorian about the inane remarks. When Clare Spalding spoke to the jockey he mentioned about having to veer around the fallen horses and the chap to the left of him changed the subject so that it was not 'focused' on. I have to agree that these incidents ARE NOT discussed, the BBC seem to gloss over them and the horses aren't even mentioned. Its easy to forget that these are living breathing animals, who feel pain, fright, worry and goodness knows what else. When you see a fataly injured horse try desparately to rise to its feet in the name of sport -I can't help but think that the British public and the racing industry is doing something wrong somewhere.

And please do not slag me off for my opinions.
Click to expand...

Clare Balding - not Spalding.

Out of interest, what makes you special that you can say what you like unchallenged, when everyone else is debating their point of view?

You clearly have no concept of the racehorse's brain, or how he acts on the course, during or after a race. And I think we watched different races, because at no point today did we see a (and I quote ) ''fataly injured horse try desparately to rise to its feet in the name of sport''
 
I do wonder if there needs to be stricter qualifications for the National. Not sure which horse is was, but one of the trainers interviewed before the race said that he wasn't a good jumper. Seems like a silly risk to take on such a gruelling course- not just for the horse in question, but for any horses unlucky enough to get tangled up/brought down if the bad jumper falls.

On the same note, having less horses in the race would likely make it safer. Most of the falls happened early, and I think that how bunched up they get at fences plays a big part.

Having a limit of say, 25-30 really top class horses would make it just as good a race, but hopefully one with less risk.
 
I would also like to say that the winning horse was extremely lucky not to have collapsed and died after the race. When you saw it walking whilst being led, it looked like it was about to go down at one point. Disgusting, the excuse about it being hot was just that, an excuse. Yes it was hot but the other horses didn't seem to be so affected as the winner. Maybe questions should be asked around his fitness level. The horse giving it all he could does not wash with me either.[/QUOTE]

I think that is an excellent idea, i'm sure that Donald McCain Jnr and Snr would welcome any advice and training tips you could offer, maybe you should contact them? Out of curiosity what sphere of competition do you/have you worked? in I ask with genuine interest not sarcasm.
 
sleepingdragon10 said:
Did Clare Balding not say how she felt unable to be jubilant about the winner knowing that 2 horses had lost their lives during the race?
Click to expand...

Yes, I thought that Clare Balding displayed the perfect balance of her love for the sport, but genuine sadness for those lost, and respect to the stables left in mourning.

Re. the fallen horses being referred to as 'obstacles' it has occurred to me that the GN is quite a 'family' viewing event, and the BBC are probably aware of that, hence their terminology. Plus, of course the need for clarity as to which horses are injured and allowing a little time for those connected, who care for the horses personally, to be notified before it is broadcast on the tv.
 
glenruby said:
Worth also taking into account that racing has a much lower "human" fatality rate than eventing. 35 riders lost their lives from 1997-2008 and I believe 22 since 2008. Nowhere near this number of jockeys have been killed in NH racing in the same time period. And those who say that eventing makes changes following horse/rider deaths and racing does not - thats not true. Regardless of the changes eventing has brought in there have still been a significant number of deaths (especially human) since their ntroduction.
Teagreen - yes I think it was Tom Scudamore yesterday. Sam WC had a rough fall before the GN too though. Nope - Peter Toole was the one hospitalised - RP reported he was regaining conscousness as he was being moved to hospital.
Click to expand...


Racing may make changes but not to the same extent as eventing! Now I do take you point though about the human fatalities and a good conter argument would be to suggest that eventing only takes each and every horse fall seriously ( where the horses shoulders touch the ground ) because of this higher rider fatatlity rate whether this is the case we will neve know.

The rider fatatlities though are due to the difference in mainly speed of the sports, jockeys even in rotational falls due to their higher speeds mainly but also a littel to the fact they have very short stirrup legths and are already out of the saddle tend to be thrown clear, not so in most eventing rotational falls.

Sorry to hear of the jockey who is in hospital though hope he is not serious and back to full health soon.
 
applecart14 said:
Well this poster obviously doesn't appear to have a lot of empathy towards horses is the point I was trying to make.
Click to expand...

Well you think wrong, I have plenty of emptahy towards them. I love my horses dearly. I don't enjoy seeing them die. But in a high risk sport, I could rather see the horse die than the human. I am more concerned about how the jockey is in this case than the horse that died. I am sad for it, my heart truely aches for the connections because I have seen how awful it is - but it can be replaced. The poor boy who has been injured cannot.

There is a chance in any equine sport that horse or rider might be injured. And each time, I'd rather the horse was than the human. Because a human life is so, so precious.
 
applecart14 said:
I have empathy for both horse and human. But the human has the choice of whether he risks his life or not, the horse does not.

I'd rather nothing died to be honest. But in reality that's never going to happen.

All I would say is that I am extremely grateful to God that a) I am not a horse, and b) that I am not your horse in particular :(

And that is all I have to say.
Click to expand...

Coming from someone who this week posted a thread about how they bute their horse every weekend to compete, that is blooming ironic!!
 
Didn't bet on it, didn't watch on it. The footballing fraternity involved are enough to put me off. Take part in high risk activities by all means, if it all goes pear shaped, don't expect any sincere sympathy from me.
 
Caledonia said:
Clare Balding - not Spalding.

Out of interest, what makes you special that you can say what you like unchallenged, when everyone else is debating their point of view?

And I think we watched different races, because at no point today did we see a (and I quote ) ''fataly injured horse try desparately to rise to its feet in the name of sport''
Click to expand...

I don't watch much racing and stuff so I got her name wrong, apologies.

And I don't think I am special and that means I can say what I like unchallenged. I just said don't slag me off. Bit of difference.

And I wasn't referring to today by saying about the fatally injured horse, however the one that landed in a heap at Beechers did try to rise but couldn't unless I am mistaken. I am guessing that was one of the ones that died, by that I mean pts. I saw it raise its head but couldn't lift its body.

And I don't watch racing anymore although when I was young I did gamble quite a lot on horse racing almost to a point of addiction but that's another story. But I am entitled to my opinion. My tastes have changed.
 
Puppy said:
Re. the fallen horses being referred to as 'obstacles' it has occurred to me that the GN is quite a 'family' viewing event, and the BBC are probably aware of that, hence their terminology. Plus, of course the need for clarity as to which horses are injured and allowing a little time for those connected, who care for the horses personally, to be notified before it is broadcast on the tv.
Click to expand...

That's a fair point, I didn't think about the children watching and the parents who might not want their children to know what was under the Tarps.
 
I havent read all of the posts as there are so many so sorry if i am repeating someone else.

Out of all of the posts i have read no one mentioned how well the winner was looked after. I thought it was very good of thejockey to get off the horse the trainer and lads to get the horse un tacked and cooled off as quick as possable. I thought Claire Balding looked very sad and looked like she meant it when she was talking about the horses that were put down today.
Also if the horses that were put down today were 'pet' horses they would not of been put down as quickly wether they were in the field, eventing, polo or hunting. They would be waiting on a decision with what to do with the horse. Where as these racehorses during a race have vets travelling next to them.
 
I would also like to say that the winning horse was extremely lucky not to have collapsed and died after the race. When you saw it walking whilst being led, it looked like it was about to go down at one point. Disgusting, the excuse about it being hot was just that, an excuse. Yes it was hot but the other horses didn't seem to be so affected as the winner. Maybe questions should be asked around his fitness level. The horse giving it all he could does not wash with me either.[/QUOTE]

But all the jockeys (or the majority) got straight off the horses after the race - I have never seen them do that before so I can only assume that decision had been made earlier that that was what they were going to do. I agree the horse looked tired but every one of those horses at the end were untacked very swiftly and were having buckets of water thrown on them. Of course they were tired, once the adrenalin starts to wane and the lactic acid has built up in the muscles then they will feel it. When you saw the horse being lead back to the stables though later on I thought he looked like he'd come round a bit again though and was fine.

Oddly, I did actually think the horses looked to be running on quite strongly coming up the home straight compared to some other years when i have seen the race. I actually think the trainers and the stable staff do an excellent job to ensure the horses get immediate attention after the race.

I do think they should reduce the numbers for this race and I also think the horses should have to qualify and be up to the standard that is required. It think one had only done a couple of hurdle races before being put in the GN. I think that's daft. Then again, the horse that came 4th (his name escapes me at the moment) hadn't raced since last years GN!! Hmm, maybe maximum 30 horses would be a better race and would lessen the serious incidents.
 
Last edited:
Puppy said:
Coming from someone who this week posted a thread about how they bute their horse every weekend to compete, that is blooming ironic!!
Click to expand...

For gods sake, on vets advice with a sound horse who is seen by the vet as and when necessary, and who has had £3k of veterinary treatment to put right the spavin he is suffering from. Who is not lame. Who is given the best of everything and who is loved as much as a horse could be loved.
 
3Beasties said:
That's a fair point, I didn't think about the children watching and the parents who might not want their children to know what was under the Tarps.
Click to expand...

Sadly this just doesnt happen in racing. A mare died on the yard before christmas, her body taken to top of yard to be near the driveway for the meat wagon. Neighbors kids were looking out of window asking why the horse was there,they were told she was asleep.Tarp put over her and they were told this was a blanket:(
 
I would also like to say that the winning horse was extremely lucky not to have collapsed and died after the race. When you saw it walking whilst being led, it looked like it was about to go down at one point. Disgusting, the excuse about it being hot was just that, an excuse. Yes it was hot but the other horses didn't seem to be so affected as the winner. Maybe questions should be asked around his fitness level. The horse giving it all he could does not wash with me either.

^^^you cant be serious?! He WON the GN and you think his fitness needs questioning??? Really?!
I sat down today to watch the GN knowing full well there was little chance with the ground and todays immensely irregular heat for this time of year, that everyone was going to get home safe. It's sad, but its part of the risk of racing. Personally if I owned a horse running in todays national, I wouldnt have run it, the odds were stacked against them today but racing in general is risky, as are other equestrian sports. I'm amazed the two fallers were todays only fatalities tbh. I too did have a huge pang of worry for the winner when he came in, he was very close to collapse at one point.
Each to their own, I know many people that wouldnt watch todays race (and wont watch the national in general) One of them had a horse running at aintree today but her husband attended without her as she doesnt like watching the national, thats fair enough to me. Its not nice to see horses run to their deaths, and it was pretty much (in my opinion) a foregone conclusion that there would be fatalities today. I still choose to watch it. Its an immense test of the best, its gruelling and yes dangerous, amazing to watch though. Dont forget this is what these horses are bred for, they simply wouldnt exist at all without racing and as someone pointed out in an earlier post we all benefit from the racing industry and so do our horses.
RIP Ornais and Dooneys Gate. Thoughts to all the connections of these horses who will undoubtedly be very upset this evening. Huge thoughts to Dooneys Gates Jockey as well who had a truely horrific fall, I hope he is ok.
 
If he's not lame or in pain, why does he need the bute?
Racehorses are drug tested to ensure they are not given bute to camouflage pain. They have the best care in the world, and I'm sure that the owner of Monet's Garden would have something to say to all those who say that their horses are not loved.
 
teagreen said:
The jockey is in a critical condition. Please, get some perspective and pray for him :(
Click to expand...

I am sorry that the jockey has been injured, of course I am. I hope he goes on to make a full recovery. We all run the risk of injury or death doing the sports we love and no one likes to see anyone injured, that is not in dispute.
 
lhotse said:
If he's not lame or in pain, why does he need the bute?
Racehorses are drug tested to ensure they are not given bute to camouflage pain. They have the best care in the world, and I'm sure that the owner of Monet's Garden would have something to say to all those who say that their horses are not loved.
Click to expand...

I don't know but I tell you what I'll give you the vets number if you want and you can ask him. It was his suggestion. It was either bute everyday for life (14 per week) or one or two every week or fortnight.

And I didn't say that racehorses aren't loved, for Gods sake, why does everyone feel the need to twist everything someone says on this forum. I'm sick of it. All I said was that my horse couldn't be more loved. I wasn't referring to anything else.
 
teagreen said:
The jockey is in a critical condition.
Click to expand...

:( This is why these horse sports perhaps won't last out into the future. Too many great, well prepared riders are hurt and killed. There are safer ways of getting a thrill and making a living than leaping large fences on horses.

To the people arguing about who does and doesn't love their horses, horses couldn't give a monkeys about whether anyone loves them, they just want to be comfortable and have their needs met.
 
I have had been fascinated with the Grand National since I was a little girl and my beloved Grandad who loved a flutter would put "50p each way" on a horse of my choosing. In my naivity as a child I wondered at the spectacle of it all and adored the fairy tale stories of horses like Rummy and Aldaniti.
I am now 37 and very much a "grown up" that owns an ex flat racer of my own. (My dream horse!) I still watch the "National" but now with a feeling of trepidation. I appreciate that the horses are bred to race and I am sure that they love it. My own horse loves nothing more than a good canter out with his buddies. But I am sure that it could still be a specticle if it was made safer for both the horses and jockeys.
I accept the arguement that horses die in all areas of horse sport and suffer life ending injuries in their fields but do we routinely turn out horses in groups of 40? Are horses regularly entered into 4* events after less than perfect preparations? I often feel that some of the runners are there to make up the numbers or as a last chance before calling it a day, rather than because they have a genuine chance of winning the race. I am sure that others have made this point before (I haven't read all the replies) but I just felt I should add my p.o.v. x
 
applecart14 said:
I don't know but I tell you what I'll give you the vets number if you want and you can ask him. It was his suggestion. It was either bute everyday for life (14 per week) or one or two every week or fortnight.

And I didn't say that racehorses aren't loved, for Gods sake, why does everyone feel the need to twist everything someone says on this forum. I'm sick of it. All I said was that my horse couldn't be more loved. I wasn't referring to anything else.
Click to expand...

Some feel the need to twist other peoples words, to justify their own reasoning. Don't take it to heart, your opinions are just as valid as theirs.:)
 
Actually, I didn't say that Applecart implied that the horses were not loved and cared for, but others on this thread have, hence re-read what I have written 'to all those who'.

I have no gripe with Applecart, and apologise if he thought I had twisted his words, it was not my intention.
 
i couldn't watch it after the first bad fall, just left a sick feeling in my stomach. i ahve an exracer and i havent been able to enjoy racing since i got him for some weird reason. i know there are risks in every sport, but there just seems to be too many horses jumping together to be safe.

i don't think it comparable to eventing or showjumping, where a horse and rider pretty much have complete control and awareness of the course. grand national horses don't have that control in such a large field, if a horse goes down it can easily end up killing another one behind it. i know this happens in racing too, but such a large field gives unfair odds for safety.
 
Quote from RP

6.50pm Jockey Peter Toole, who fell on Classic Fly in the Maghull Novices' Chase earlier on the card, is being kept under sedation in hospital with possible head injuries - according to trainer Charlie Mann.
Click to expand...

And Cornelius Lysaght on twitter:

'Doctors say jockey Peter Toole in a critical condition in hospital after a fall in one of the early races on Grand National day'

Thoughts to him and his family. :(
 
lhotse said:
I have no gripe with Applecart, and apologise if he thought I had twisted his words, it was not my intention.
Click to expand...

My fault too I guess. And I am a she not a he. :eek: Its my Dad in the photo holding the horse and my O/H and our beagle bitch Candy!! Someone else referred to me as a he the other day, I think I'm going to get my siggy changed! he, he. :) Its me jumping in the middle photo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top