Such a SAD day for so many fantastic horses ... The Grand National

They made changes that in theory should make the race safer but yes it seems that it may have had the opposite effect.
 
Such a shame this great race has been marred by the tragic deaths of Ornais and Dooleys Gate.

I love NH racing - there is no other sport quite like it, but it doesn't mean that I don't feel extreme sadness when horses die in a race.

But what do we suggest? Ban racing? Ban eventing?

In an ideal world, all the horses would come home safe and well, and they often do, but sadly, I had a feeling that there would be fatalities today due to the ground.

Interestingly, in 2001 there was public outrage that the GN was run on appalling ground - a complete mud bath which saw only four horses finish - two of them had fallen and been remounted. But there were no fatalities, so perhaps the ground conditions are a major issue....

I don't have the answers, and I don't begrudge anybody their opinion, but I do feel some perspective is needed.
Riding is a risk sport - any riding. And fatal accidents occur regularly - even out hacking. Nobody likes it, but unless we wrap horses up in cotton wool and never let them see daylight, they will continue to happen.

My thoughts are with the stable staff of Ornais and Dooleys Gate who will wake up to empty stables in the morning, and papers full of sensationalised reporting, and graphic images of their beloved charges meeting their ends. :(
 
Just finished reading all the posts, shook my head at some, gasped at some, laughed at others, then applauded Dubs right at the end. so Well articulated! We really need a 'like' button here dontcha think :D
 
Caledonia said:
Nothing to do with flight. If they didn't want to do it, and flight was their preferred option, they'd bugger off in the other direction.
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I disagree - I think racing taps directly into horses' flight instinct. See my previous post for a clip that shows a top trainer expressing exactly this view.
 
Nobody likes it, but unless we wrap horses up in cotton wool and never let them see daylight, they will continue to happen.
Mine was wrapped in cotton wool in foal to Merit (beat the mighty Istabraque)
broke her leg in the paddock, where do you go ,cant ban turning them out:(
 
hedgehog.jpg
 
fburton said:
I disagree - I think racing taps directly into horses' flight instinct. See my previous post for a clip that shows a top trainer expressing exactly this view.
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:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Oh dear..... I got bored after a load of fat people on fat horses....... no relevance to my mind.........
 
I should add, that's at some of the replys to this thread, not the GN or anything that happened today, before I get jumped on, wrapped in cotton wool and a carrot stuck to my nose :)
 
well, reading these replies have made me LOL.

Shame i didnt have any pop corn.

It amazes me how people can be so rude and insulting to other people.
(but i admit, the come-backs have been funny to read)

It also amazes me how many threads about the Grand National have popped up and it all ends up with the same argument.

yes.

RIP horses and wishing the jockeys a speedy recovery.
 
fburton said:
I think it's highly relevant. Skip to 6:10 by dragging the slider over.
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so you weren't insinuating that he was a muppet then, you actually believe they are running away. So what about the horse yesterday and the day before that let the rest of the field go at the start and refused to run, had that one been taking brave pills?
 
HHmmmmmm - It's just come to my attention that 3 TBs were fatally injured on Friday at Aintree, during one race or another? Might have been three in the same race? (I don't know) - 5 horses in 2 days, that the main thing really (to me) ..... Gets better and better! Or not.. Night all x
 
I love watching the GN but I too feel that there are too many runners in it.

With regards to the fences, the only one I don't really like is Beechers. With such a large drop on landing I think the liklyhood of horses falling is massively increased. The horses have to jump out otherwise they're going to peck on landing. Jumping out can't be all that easy if your right up someone elses tail. As someone said before, The Chair seemed to be one of the best jumped out of all the fences. Is it just the size of the fence that makes horses/jockeys respect it or is it the slopping profile that encourages a good jump?

RIP Dooneys Gate and Ornais, and I shall certainly be thinking of the jockey who had the nasty fall earlier.
 
chestnuttymare said:
so you weren't insinuating that he was a muppet then, you actually believe they are running away.
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Luca Cumani said he believes horses race because of their flight instinct. One of the posters was called a muppet apparently for expressing this view. I was simply asking if that meant Alligator40 thought Cumani was also a muppet for holding the same view.
 
fburton said:
Luca Cumani said he believes horses race because of their flight instinct. One of the posters was called a muppet apparently for expressing this view. I was simply asking if that meant Alligator40 thought Cumani was also a muppet for holding the same view.
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Oh dear - LC trains flat horses .......
 
I think what happened today in the National is very, very sad. I was brought up by a father who loved racing and it was his proud boast that he'd taken me to every racecourse in the country by the age of fourteen! I was happy to take my dad to see the National as a treat when he was seventy .... now many years ago. From the age of fourteen I rode flapping ponies (racing ponies - flat, not jumping). I always thought they enjoyed it as much as I did.

As I've got older I've questioned more about what we do with horses. My personal feeling, and I appreciate that other people feel differently, is that two dead horses, a horse that needed oxygen and couldn't make it to the winner's enclosure, other horse(s?) who have died at the same meeting, a jockey in critical condition, and (according to the guardian) a five day ban on the rider of the winner of the national for excessive whip use is a big price to pay for a few days of 'sport'. The statistics suggest that the number of horses who die on this particular course is very high. I think it is appalling that these dead/dying horses were described as 'obstacles' and agree with the poster who said that 'receiving on-going veterinary treatment' might have been more sensitive and a lot closer to the truth.

I think the link posted by fburton is interesting in its take on racing. Luca Cumani does indeed say that racing harnesses the flight instinct of the horse. As he points out, why would a horse push himself through the pain barrier? He says that the jockey is 'agitating' the horse, and the horse that runs the fastest survives - or not, in the case of these horses that have died. In the herd, one gets frightened and runs, and then everyone else runs. As commented in the clip, racing has harnessed fear and turned it into a multi million pound industry. I think there is a lot of truth in this view - certainly I see no reason why LC would say these things to camera unless he believed them to be true - and I'm sure he knows a hell of a lot about horses!!

It's obvious that these kinds of events won't be banned. It's also obvious that the people who know and care for these horses will be deeply upset at their loss. The guy who owned the flappers I rode cried like a kid when his favourite pony died in an unforseeable and tragic accident. I think that if anything can be done to make the sport safer in any way, than that can only be a good thing. No one wants their horse to die in a race. No one wants to have ridden a horse to his death. I am disappointed to read some posts on this forum that seem to belittle the loss of these horses - there is always a lesson to be learned from these events ... I don't think that expressing the view that it is not really such a big deal is very constructive.

apologies if this has already been posted

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sands--end-dog-food-French-dinner-plates.html

sensationalist reporting definitely I think, given the timing, but nevertheless there is truth in here somewhere and sadly gives more fuel to the fire that horses are viewed as a commodity by the racing 'industry', to be chewed up and spat out when superfluous to requirements.

The DM has also printed some pictures which personally I find pretty horrific. In fact, some of them are so graphic that I am surprised they have been printed, given the fact that they show a jockey being apparently crushed as well as the fate of a now dead horse in pretty clear detail. However, I think it is important that these pictures are shown because only when people see what really goes on in these situations can they make an informed judgement as to whether it is acceptable or not.

RIP brave horses that lost their lives today. I hope no other horse (or human) has suffered serious injuries as a result of today's events.
 
tess1 said:
I think what happened today in the National is very, very sad. I was brought up by a father who loved racing and it was his proud boast that he'd taken me to every racecourse in the country by the age of fourteen! I was happy to take my dad to see the National as a treat when he was seventy .... now many years ago. From the age of fourteen I rode flapping ponies (racing ponies - flat, not jumping). I always thought they enjoyed it as much as I did.

As I've got older I've questioned more about what we do with horses. My personal feeling, and I appreciate that other people feel differently, is that two dead horses, a horse that needed oxygen and couldn't make it to the winner's enclosure, other horse(s?) who have died at the same meeting, a jockey in critical condition, and (according to the guardian) a five day ban on the rider of the winner of the national for excessive whip use is a big price to pay for a few days of 'sport'. The statistics suggest that the number of horses who die on this particular course is very high. I think it is appalling that these dead/dying horses were described as 'obstacles' and agree with the poster who said that 'receiving on-going veterinary treatment' might have been more sensitive and a lot closer to the truth.

I think the link posted by fburton is interesting in its take on racing. Luca Cumani does indeed say that racing harnesses the flight instinct of the horse. As he points out, why would a horse push himself through the pain barrier? He says that the jockey is 'agitating' the horse, and the horse that runs the fastest survives - or not, in the case of these horses that have died. In the herd, one gets frightened and runs, and then everyone else runs. As commented in the clip, racing has harnessed fear and turned it into a multi million pound industry. I think there is a lot of truth in this view - certainly I see no reason why LC would say these things to camera unless he believed them to be true - and I'm sure he knows a hell of a lot about horses!!

It's obvious that these kinds of events won't be banned. It's also obvious that the people who know and care for these horses will be deeply upset at their loss. The guy who owned the flappers I rode cried like a kid when his favourite pony died in an unforseeable and tragic accident. I think that if anything can be done to make the sport safer in any way, than that can only be a good thing. No one wants their horse to die in a race. No one wants to have ridden a horse to his death. I am disappointed to read some posts on this forum that seem to belittle the loss of these horses - there is always a lesson to be learned from these events ... I don't think that expressing the view that it is not really such a big deal is very constructive.

apologies if this has already been posted

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sands--end-dog-food-French-dinner-plates.html

sensationalist reporting definitely I think, given the timing, but nevertheless there is truth in here somewhere and sadly gives more fuel to the fire that horses are viewed as a commodity by the racing 'industry', to be chewed up and spat out when superfluous to requirements.

The DM has also printed some pictures which personally I find pretty horrific. In fact, some of them are so graphic that I am surprised they have been printed, given the fact that they show a jockey being apparently crushed as well as the fate of a now dead horse in pretty clear detail. However, I think it is important that these pictures are shown because only when people see what really goes on in these situations can they make an informed judgement as to whether it is acceptable or not.

RIP brave horses that lost their lives today. I hope no other horse (or human) has suffered serious injuries as a result of today's events.
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Just to say... I'm in her camp ^^^^^.
 
tess1 said:
I think that if anything can be done to make the sport safer in any way, than that can only be a good thing. No one wants their horse to die in a race. No one wants to have ridden a horse to his death. I am disappointed to read some posts on this forum that seem to belittle the loss of these horses - there is always a lesson to be learned from these events ... I don't think that expressing the view that it is not really such a big deal is very constructive.
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Agree with this. I don't want to see the National banned, but I don't think that these deaths should be shrugged off as part and parcel of racing either. We need to find out exactly what were the factors that resulted in this horses falling and dying and use that knowledge to try and improve the race in future.
 
The main factor that I think led to the fatalities was the fast ground. I hate to watch this race run on fast ground. Apparently - I could be wrong mind - I have heard the powers that be did not water. If so then I think it wrong - that track could definitely have done with a bit of water in my opinion. Hasn't the Grand National moved forward a week? Maybe that is a factor in the state of the ground too.

Apart from the fatalities there were a lot of horses finishing very dehydrated which was another way the waeather influences the race. However no one likes to see horses slogging through bottomless ground and finishing (or not finishing) exhausted, as they did in Red Mrauders year.

Also I would prefer to see the field capped at 30. I don't think it should be banned or the fences made easier AGAIN, it is a unique spectacle and part of our racing heritage but I firmly believe that it is not a race that should be run on fast ground.

Apologies if I am repeating others but no time to read 25 pages.
 
minesadouble said:
The main factor that I think led to the fatalities was the fast ground. I hate to watch this race run on fast ground. Apparently - I could be wrong mind - I have heard the powers that be did not water. If so then I think it wrong - that track could definitely have done with a bit of water in my opinion. Hasn't the Grand National moved forward a week? Maybe that is a factor in the state of the ground too.

Apart from the fatalities there were a lot of horses finishing very dehydrated which was another way the waeather influences the race. However no one likes to see horses slogging through bottomless ground and finishing (or not finishing) exhausted, as they did in Red Mrauders year.

Also I would prefer to see the field capped at 30. I don't think it should be banned or the fences made easier AGAIN, it is a unique spectacle and part of our racing heritage but I firmly believe that it is not a race that should be run on fast ground.

Apologies if I am repeating others but no time to read 25 pages.
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Yes 25 pages and many do echo your sentiments of reducing numbers... which can only be a good thing!!!!

It's the easiest most logical solution.

Why is it so long anyway? Why twice around?

I know we don't throw people in with the lions anymore, but why do we run horses to death? Barbarism disguised as civilisation.
 
I just find it sad that anyone finds it normal for any equestrian event to start with 40, finish with 19 and kill 2, all in a few minutes.

That's just over 50% of horses not finishing, and 5% dying. There would be uproar if we had those types of statistics in any other equestrian sport, so its not surprising this is highly controversial.
 
Caledonia said:
That says nothing about the figures for horse injuries, or falls for them.

Whatever they do, there are still equine fatalities.
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Off course there are as there are in any equine sport however they try and reduce the risk, does nh do a full report on every horse fall? And if less than 50% of entrys failed to complete there would indeed be uproar!

However agree with tgm, I love the national would hate it to be no more, but I would also hate to see all 3 of these deaths (total number during aintree ) just shrugged off.


agree with the comments the speed was a major contirbutory factor and the ground, yesterday I had my first cc run, am not so far from aintree in the grand scheme of things and the ground was rock hard!
 
TGM said:
Agree with this. I don't want to see the National banned, but I don't think that these deaths should be shrugged off as part and parcel of racing either. We need to find out exactly what were the factors that resulted in this horses falling and dying and use that knowledge to try and improve the race in future.
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My sentiment in a nutshell.
 
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