Sudden epiphany, followed by more doubt

[HufflyPuffly]

Mine don't get balancers are on what is normal livery size grazing (ie not acres and acres) and I've never noticed any difference in them from when I have tried balancers... I had a rep from Spillers I think, weigh and assess Topaz, stated she was 'perfect' condition asked what I fed (hay and grass) and then suggested a balancer *face palm*.

Question, has anyone noticed a difference using a normal off the shelf standard balancer?

I could see maybe the benefit of supplementing if you've done an analysis of the grazing/ hay and found specific deficiencies and then supplement them, but as the off the shelf ones are generic how do you know they match any 'deficiencies' in the forage you provide?

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

I feel exactly the same as you, so my compromise is to give half the recommended amount of pelleted balancer. I don't really know why half! It's just that the full amount seems like loads, and I'm of a generation where scruffy ploddy ponies never had supplements at all (I guess it's the same as buying vitamins for my kids, but never remembering to actually give them every day! Thinking about it, the pony has a far better diet than the kids do ?‍)

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

Mine don't get balancers are on what is normal livery size grazing (ie not acres and acres) and I've never noticed any difference in them from when I have tried balancers... I had a rep from Spillers I think, weigh and assess Topaz, stated she was 'perfect' condition asked what I fed (hay and grass) and then suggested a balancer *face palm*.

Question, has anyone noticed a difference using a normal off the shelf standard balancer?

I could see maybe the benefit of supplementing if you've done an analysis of the grazing/ hay and found specific deficiencies and then supplement them, but as the off the shelf ones are generic how do you know they match any 'deficiencies' in the forage you provide?

Also, if the balancer provides enough nutrients to correct potential deficiencies, then surely it would be enough to overdose if those deficiencies don't actually exist? That said, I do still give a bit of balancer, because, well, marketing I guess ??

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I know the feeling of wanting to give a bucket feed! I too compromised with the grassnuts, chop and pink mash so they can have something after they've been ridden, but I know it's only because it makes me feel good...

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Question, has anyone noticed a difference using a normal off the shelf standard balancer?

When we first started to feed haylage we put the horses on NAF Haylage Balancer. It made them very footy and jumpy. We stopped it and haven't used anything else since.

 

[Pedantic]

There is no one thing fits all horses, they are all going to be needing different requirments for feeding rugging or not rugging clipped not clipped blah blah due to breed age etc, whether stabled a lot or 24/7 turnout into bare fields or lush fields bare concrete paddock etc, I do what works for "mine" and his yard/grazing, not what others "think" I should be doing, had my Ginger Sausage part Arab part New forest for nearly 17 years, I am an expert on him, not others.

At 27, Winter he gets One large scoop of Haygates Twighlight for breakfast with carrot with Prascend in it, plus gold label Bute Free joint supplement, as much hay as he can eat whilst mucking out etc.
Teatime comes in and one scoop of Haygates and one large Net overnight, I will add a bit on the floor if I am going to be a bit later in the morning.
He gets my apple core or a bit of my peanut butter sandwhich or Teacake whilst I am eating

Unless it's going to be raining "all day" "and cold", he isn't clipped so no rugging, he seems fine with this, having his winter coat he has all the rugs he needs and changes them himself accordingly, even when it's rained all day, his undercoat is still dry.
He seems fine with this, but I monitor him as nothing is written in stone.

 

[Annagain]

Both mine only have a tiny token feed of high fibre cubes to get boswellia into Archie (retired with arthritis) and a gut supplement into Charlie (pretty light work at the moment, hacking twice a week and 30mins in the school twice a week) as he has a very... erm... active tum without it. So not 100% grass/haylage but as near as makes no difference. They would 100% grass /haylage if it wasn't for the supplements. They have pretty decent grazing on well drained land (on top of a hill) and are in with adlib haylage for about 12 hours overnight. They're both about 16.3 ID types (unregistered breeding) and pretty decent doers, although neither is particularly greedy. There are 6 in their herd on 7 acres for most of the year but for about 3 months in late summer / autumn they go onto the 18 acres of hay fields with the other herd of 5 while their fields rest ready for winter.

 

[AutumnDays]

There is no one thing fits all horses, they are all going to be needing different requirments for feeding rugging or not rugging clipped not clipped blah blah due to breed age etc, whether stabled a lot or 24/7 turnout into bare fields or lush fields bare concrete paddock etc, I do what works for "mine" and his yard/grazing, not what others "think" I should be doing, had my Ginger Sausage part Arab part New forest for nearly 17 years, I am an expert on him, not others.

At 27, Winter he gets One large scoop of Haygates Twighlight for breakfast with carrot with Prascend in it, plus gold label Bute Free joint supplement, as much hay as he can eat whilst mucking out etc.
Teatime comes in and one scoop of Haygates and one large Net overnight, I will add a bit on the floor if I am going to be a bit later in the morning.
He gets my apple core or a bit of my peanut butter sandwhich or Teacake whilst I am eating

Unless it's going to be raining "all day" "and cold", he isn't clipped so no rugging, he seems fine with this, having his winter coat he has all the rugs he needs and changes them himself accordingly, even when it's rained all day, his undercoat is still dry.
He seems fine with this, but I monitor him as nothing is written in stone.

View attachment 64218

Lovely picture!

 

[Tarragon]

When I hear people talk about not horses not needing special feed, as horses in the wild don't, they are forgetting that horses and ponies in the wild, or those access to a large area to graze, have a huge selection of things to eat. From gorze, hedgrow plants, all sorts of grasses and other plants, seeds and berries. This is a hugely different kettle of fish to a horse kept in a small field with an electric fence and a minimal amount of choice.
So yes, I do feed my two Exmoor ponies a supplement (Thunderbrooks basemix fed in a basic chop) because I think they need a bit of help. They are kept at livery so I haven't thought about getting the grasses tested. They share their field with sheep so it is whatever the farmer thinks doing for his sheep.

 

[Squeak]

After one of mine was having reactions to feed I've cut it down to just grass supplemented with haylage and a pelleted balancer and joint supplement. He's looking well and much better to ride.

The ex-racer on the other hand gets buckets full of feed and would never survive without.

 

[AutumnDays]

When I hear people talk about not horses not needing special feed, as horses in the wild don't, they are forgetting that horses and ponies in the wild, or those access to a large area to graze, have a huge selection of things to eat. From gorze, hedgrow plants, all sorts of grasses and other plants, seeds and berries. This is a hugely different kettle of fish to a horse kept in a small field with an electric fence and a minimal amount of choice.
So yes, I do feed my two Exmoor ponies a supplement (Thunderbrooks basemix fed in a basic chop) because I think they need a bit of help. They are kept at livery so I haven't thought about getting the grasses tested. They share their field with sheep so it is whatever the farmer thinks doing for his sheep.

Thinking along the same lines as you, but then I tend to over think and chase my tail... if only I had my own land, and the money to turn the grazing into proper meadow, then I wouldn't be such a wet lettuce!

 

[LEC]

Events off grass in the summer......

I do not get this obsession with feeding horses. I just don't feed them unless they need it and then I keep it simple. If they have plenty of energy, are the right weight and I keep mine lighter than a lot of people then they are fine.

 

[Squeak]

Events off grass in the summer......

I do not get this obsession with feeding horses. I just don't feed them unless they need it and then I keep it simple. If they have plenty of energy, are the right weight and I keep mine lighter than a lot of people then they are fine.

Out of interest what level have you managed to event to without supplementing with feed?

 

[LEC]

Out of interest what level have you managed to event to without supplementing with feed?

Novice - depends on the horse and grass cover. I wouldn't feed for 90/100. My caveat is that I do feed in the summer if its hot and the grass has turned. I wouldn't for 90 but I often do for 100 depending on what their autumn plans are. TBH I don't tend to event in August which solves some of the issues unless going to a championship. I tend to gear them back up for the August BH weekend as it nearly always rains.

Summer (June) onwards I do tend to feed for Novice because grass has usually lost all its energy. If its hot and sustained heat I will feed as well. I tend to run them lighter and fitter if its hot. I want to see them just covered over their ribs. If you are hitting above 25 degs frequently i will look to strip any fat off them which is done through exercise and feed (remove them from good grass and place them on sparse, in at day on hay, supplement with hard feed and electrolytes.)

 

[Squeak]

Novice - depends on the horse and grass cover. I wouldn't feed for 90/100. My caveat is that I do feed in the summer if its hot and the grass has turned. I wouldn't for 90 but I often do for 100 depending on what their autumn plans are. TBH I don't tend to event in August which solves some of the issues unless going to a championship. I tend to gear them back up for the August BH weekend as it nearly always rains.

Summer (June) onwards I do tend to feed for Novice because grass has usually lost all its energy. If its hot and sustained heat I will feed as well. I tend to run them lighter and fitter if its hot. I want to see them just covered over their ribs. If you are hitting above 25 degs frequently i will look to strip any fat off them which is done through exercise and feed (remove them from good grass and place them on sparse, in at day on hay, supplement with hard feed and electrolytes.)

Thanks, I think I'm going to have to give eventing mine without hard feed a go, it's only going to realistically be 90/100 this year so I wont start flapping about it until next season when he's hopefully moving up the levels.

 

[Littlewills]

Question, has anyone noticed a difference using a normal off the shelf standard balancer?

I could see maybe the benefit of supplementing if you've done an analysis of the grazing/ hay and found specific deficiencies and then supplement them, but as the off the shelf ones are generic how do you know they match any 'deficiencies' in the forage you provide?

A dramatic one with equimins, and less so with progressive earth. Perodically I have stopped them and found hoof quality deteriorates enough to be noticeable. Theres a post on the Progressive Earth page showing mine, but it was eons ago and I cant find it!

I'm on a yard with different hay suppliers so cant do any analysis, so I use one that matches average grazing. We know the UK is high in iron and high copper and zinc balance that out. So while I'd probably get slightly better results if I did analyse soil and had a consistent hay source etc, I dont, so do the best I can.

 

[LegOn]

My old YO evented to 3 star with her horses on grass/hay alone! Depends on the horse - your horse, your decision!

 

[Elno]

As of yesterday my horse is back on only forage and a mineral saltlick.

I'm truly fed up with constantly over analysing every feed and supplement and counting minerals and vitamins down to the nanogram. I've been doing this for almost a year now with her and I can't really honestly say that my horse is any better (behaviour or conditionwise) than she was when she had only ad lib forage and a salt lick. So many hours and money spent on expensive balancers, supplements and spread sheets....

 

[L&M]

My cob hunts every season of good quality haylage alone, grass in the summer and all year round access to a salt lick. If he drops/gains weigh I just adjust the forage.

Has loads of energy and looks well on it - but appreciate a cob's diet is probably more easy to manage.......

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Out of interest who is offering a mineral block and what brand are you using? I do a token balancer/ chaff feed but its mainly grass and hay. He does have access to a salt lick though but perhaps i can drop the hard feed and just stick a bucket of mineral lick in the field instead!

 

[Annagain]

Archie gets a handful of nuts to mix his boswellia (for arthritis) into and Charlie gets a handful of chaff to make him think he's having something when everybody else is but neither has any vitamin or mineral supplements. Arch is 25 and has never had any so I figure Charlie will be ok on none too.

ETA: Ah I see I answered this a few months ago - that'll teach me not to read it all! I've stopped Charlie's gut supplement now that he's more settled. I don't think it made much difference to him to be honest.

 

[milliepops]

many horses won't lick enough off a salt or mineral block to meet their needs. they don't have a rough enough tongue really.

 

[LEC]

many horses won't lick enough off a salt or mineral block to meet their needs. they don't have a rough enough tongue really.

David Marlin opened my eyes to this and i do more about salt levels and electrolytes.

 

[Muddywellies]

Im a great believer in this. If I could keep a horse this way I absolutely would. Sadly my horse has extra needs so does need various bits n bobs in her feed.
I believe hard working horses would need some sort of feed, but leisure horses in light work, I'm sure can survive perfectly well with decent grazing and hay.

 

[hollyandivy123]

hay, oat chaff and basic mineral mix.........needs the bucket for when the others are fed otherwise its very angry.........but is placated with oat chaff......

 

[PurBee]

Go and research the average nutrients in the average mixed grass hay, then from that see that there generally are excesses of some nutrients and deficiencies of others.

That’s why i add minerals/balancers mainly to the basic forage/salt/water diet.

If our horses could do as their wild counterparts do/did - forage thousands of acres of barks, varied grasses, plants, barks, berries, roots etc - then we wouldnt have to give them anything as they would source their needs.

In domestication, of neat grass fields and maybe some blackberry bushes/trees here and there, we’re already causing an imbalance nutritionally and have to make-up the shortfall.
It’s hard work to balance a diet of such a large animal as they require so much food - but get the basics balanced and their health is great. Common health issues from strains/copd/laminitis/colic etc are mainly due to what we do with them and how we manage them, in domestication.

When we compare wild to domestication we see a huge rift in differences. Closing the gap as much as possible yields better health.

 

[Cortez]

I hav'nt fed anything but grass and hay for 20 years. This winter I've probably put hay out 6 times, and the horse is in great condition. There is salt available.

 

[AutumnDays]

Thanks for all your replies everyone ? currently we are in preventative fat camp, with poor, sparse grass patches and bare earth. We have free access to a mineral and salt lick, and I managed to get some proper meadow grass hay with herbage, to ration out for her. This is suiting us both great! I'm hoping that this can be kept up, as I have mentioned before, the rest of the land we livery at is monoculture ryegrass, and managed with dairy cows in mind... It's coming through lush and vivid at the moment!