Supplement Comparison

[sarahmac77]

Hey everyone.

My new horse is on quite a few supplements and I’ve been looking online at maybe finding alternatives or some that do two or more things at once (one is insanely expensive) and I wondered if anyone knows a table or website of supplement comparisons? For example, each different brand of glucosamine has a different amount of glucosamine per dose and I’d like to work out the best without, ideally, reading every page of every supplement that exists! A bit like how a supermarket tells you cost per gram!

As an extra query. The pricey supplement is the Equine America Cortaflex HA Super Strength with Super Fenn if anyone had any advice or alternatives or insight!

 

[poiuytrewq]

Equine America Cortaflex won’t say what levels of ingredients they use. As a result they usually seem to come out pretty badly on comparison charts.
I use Equine Answers because as far as I can make out it contains the correct levels of what I want except MSM which is slightly low so I supplement that with extra pure MSM from Aviform.

 

[sarahmac77]

Equine America Cortaflex won’t say what levels of ingredients they use. As a result they usually seem to come out pretty badly on comparison charts.
I use Equine Answers because as far as I can make out it contains the correct levels of what I want except MSM which is slightly low so I supplement that with extra pure MSM from Aviform.

Which Equine Answers product? There’s a few... and thanks!

 

[poiuytrewq]

Sorry that didn’t really answer your question! There are tables I’m sure someone can point you in the right direction!

 

[poiuytrewq]

Which Equine Answers product? There’s a few... and thanks!

I use Premierflex plus. Just because It has devils claw added and one of my horses gets old and stiff!
I never checked the level or recomended level of that though as it’s just a bonus ?

 

[iknowmyvalue]

I use the Feedmark bespoke stuff for mixing supplements (horse is on livery so want it to be as simple as possible for them!) and as far as I can see their joint supplements have pretty decent levels of active ingredients (depending on which one you pick, there’s a few different “levels”). It’s not the cheapest stuff, but you do get a discount the more products you add to the mix...

 

[Equi]

For starters what are the supplements and what are they trying to target? Also what weight is the horse being given them?

 

[brighteyes]

What scientific evidence and proof the supplement is effective would be my first question.

https://www.doctorramey.com/supplements/

In fact read his entire web contributions. Save yourself a ton of money.

 

[DabDab]

What scientific evidence and proof the supplement is effective would be my first question.

https://www.doctorramey.com/supplements/

In fact read his entire web contributions. Save yourself a ton of money.

That is a very strange article, and tbh I am quite surprised that the writer is a vet.

Maybe it is true in the USA that there is a huge amount of horses that are underweight and lacking energy for their work, but it is pretty unusual in the UK. I also don't know many (any) people that feed supplements for improved energy, and the deficiencies in UK soil often amount to more than a touch of low selenium.

 

[Ownedby4horses]

For starters what are the supplements and what are they trying to target? Also what weight is the horse being given them?

Totally agree. What supplements do you have your horse on and what is it you are wanting to target? It would be far easier to list on here rather than try to search for comparison tables (If anyone has indeed done a comprehensive and reliable study!)

Ive seen people feed a whole raft of supplements because its seen as the done thing on their yard but they’re actually not clear on what they’re feeding and why.

I once had a (UK) vet who exclaimed to me that all supplements are a complete waste of money as they dont work. He then added, the only supplements that did work where the ones he made at home and sold himself!!! ?

 

[Auslander]

I stopped feeding any supplements about 3 years ago, and noticed absolutely zero difference in my horse. It was a bit of a wake up call!

 

[sarahmac77]

Totally agree. What supplements do you have your horse on and what is it you are wanting to target? It would be far easier to list on here rather than try to search for comparison tables (If anyone has indeed done a comprehensive and reliable study!)

Ive seen people feed a whole raft of supplements because its seen as the done thing on their yard but they’re actually not clear on what they’re feeding and why.

I once had a (UK) vet who exclaimed to me that all supplements are a complete waste of money as they dont work. He then added, the only supplements that did work where the ones he made at home and sold himself!!! ?

Not sure of his weight but he’s a 16.3 ESH. He’s 14 and has the aforementioned cortaflex super fenn, turmeric, and seaweed and rosehip. his vet report showed slight muscle atrophy on his right hand croup and sensitivity in his metatarsal Ii and advised radiographs of his hocks in a year or so.
he’s basically a 14 year old ex-eventer!
I was thinking to move from the cortaflex onto glucosamine. I guess it’s broadly preventative joint supplements he needs. Very open to advice. If anyone swears by what he’s on I may just keep him on it. It’s just so £££!

 

[sarahmac77]

I use the Feedmark bespoke stuff for mixing supplements (horse is on livery so want it to be as simple as possible for them!) and as far as I can see their joint supplements have pretty decent levels of active ingredients (depending on which one you pick, there’s a few different “levels”). It’s not the cheapest stuff, but you do get a discount the more products you add to the mix...

Looks great but it’s so pricey! More than what I pay right now! If I win the lottery...! Thx tho ??

 

[TPO]

I'd drop the seaweed. Its high in iron and, unless diagnosed anemic by a vet, horses dont need it supplemented in general.

UK soils tend to be high in iron and low in copper. High iron also inhibits the uptake of copper, so a double whammy.

Look at a general supplement/balancer from Progressive Earth, Forage Plus or Equimmins advance.

 

[Bernster]

What TPO said is the advice I’ve had from a horse nutrionalist - avoid iron, add copper and basic vit and mins. Currently using forage plus. Oh, and salt.

 

[TPO]

What TPO said is the advice I’ve had from a horse nutrionalist - avoid iron, add copper and basic vit and mins. Currently using forage plus. Oh, and salt.

Yes and salt. Access to a salt lick isnt enough and salt should be added daily, even in winter.

 

[Wishfilly]

Yes and salt. Access to a salt lick isnt enough and salt should be added daily, even in winter.

Sorry to derail, but can I ask why you say this?

 

[TPO]

Sorry to derail, but can I ask why you say this?

What part?

 

[Wishfilly]

What part?

I'm just curious as to why you say a salt lick isn't enough and salt should be added to feed instead?

 

[TPO]

I'm just curious as to why you say a salt lick isn't enough and salt should be added to feed instead?

Horses need sodium for brain and muscle function. Their tongues aren't designed in a way that enables them to lick enough.
Even if they licked a block all day it still wouldn't be enough.

Also most people use Himalayan salt blocks and they are also high iron.

So yeah, horse should get loose salt daily.

Just had a quick google and this was one of many articles about why horses need supplemented salt

https://www.thehaypillow.com/blog/why-horses-need-salt-why-salt-blocks-are-not-the-answer#

 

[milliepops]

yes and in addition, if you use a balancer/vits and mins from progressive earth (others may be the same) they don't add salt because they say it can degrade the quality of the product if pre-mixed.
horses excrete excess and don't have problems with blood pressure etc like people do from ingesting too much so it is totally safe (as well as necessary) to add.

 

[Reacher]

Link to comparison thread from 2010
(1) Joint Supplements - April's Amateur Analysis | Horse and Hound Forum

Also...
Years ago I downloaded a couple of comparison spreadsheets from the internet (probably from a link on here) - one for vitamins / minerals and one for joint supplements.
I thought I had lost them but dug them out the other day.

I have had a go at updating the joint supplement spreadsheet by updating the cost of a tub - note I have not made any attempt to get the cheapest deal and have been fairly inconsistent in terms of the size of the tub chosen, which affects price per day.

I have assumed that the maintenance dose and the amounts of ingredient have not changed, though this may not be the case. Column P gives you the updated cost per day for a 500 kg horse. (Column O is the original cost per day .)
(I did update Suppleaze to Suppleaze Gold as I could not find Suppleaze on the web - data in red have been updated accordingly).
Columns R and S indicate the assumed cost of a tub and its size.

NB2 the original spreadsheet states that for Cortavet and Cortaflex the amounts of ingredients are not available on internet.
The dark grey hashed cells indicate not applicable.

Below are maintenance dose data:


Below are loading dose data:

 

[Reacher]

This is the original vitamin/mineral spreadsheet I found on the internet years ago - I have not updated the prices (or done any checking to see if any of the ingredients have changed)

 

[Wishfilly]

Horses need sodium for brain and muscle function. Their tongues aren't designed in a way that enables them to lick enough.
Even if they licked a block all day it still wouldn't be enough.

Also most people use Himalayan salt blocks and they are also high iron.

So yeah, horse should get loose salt daily.

Just had a quick google and this was one of many articles about why horses need supplemented salt

https://www.thehaypillow.com/blog/why-horses-need-salt-why-salt-blocks-are-not-the-answer#

yes and in addition, if you use a balancer/vits and mins from progressive earth (others may be the same) they don't add salt because they say it can degrade the quality of the product if pre-mixed.
horses excrete excess and don't have problems with blood pressure etc like people do from ingesting too much so it is totally safe (as well as necessary) to add.

Thank you!

I don't give a hard feed at the moment, because Blue is, if anything, gaining weight over the winter. I do have a salt block in his stable, but I can see that's not enough.

Is it worth giving a feed of chaff to supplement salt? And if I'm going to do that, would you add any other minerals/supplements as well?

 

[TPO]

Thank you!

I don't give a hard feed at the moment, because Blue is, if anything, gaining weight over the winter. I do have a salt block in his stable, but I can see that's not enough.

Is it worth giving a feed of chaff to supplement salt? And if I'm going to do that, would you add any other minerals/supplements as well?

I'm not saying that its right or what you should do but my fatty gets a palmful of pink mash with a scoop of Progressive Earth Pro balance and salt. He also gets the smallest single handful of topspec zero mixed through.

Personally I don't think that small a "feed" makes any difference to his weight loss. He gets soaked hay (well usually, hes been getting dry hay while we've had freezing temps) and theres next to no grass and zero goodness in it so I want to give him minerals.

Hes still steadily losing weight and looking healthy/shiny despite being neglected!

 

[milliepops]

Yeah if they're not massively fussy I'd do similar. My foal learned to eat a progressive earth mineral mix in some grass chaff as her "feed" really early as that's all her mum needed and I feel quite happy about that cos I expect that's all she will need until she starts work ?

 

[Wishfilly]

I'm not saying that its right or what you should do but my fatty gets a palmful of pink mash with a scoop of Progressive Earth Pro balance and salt. He also gets the smallest single handful of topspec zero mixed through.

Personally I don't think that small a "feed" makes any difference to his weight loss. He gets soaked hay (well usually, hes been getting dry hay while we've had freezing temps) and theres next to no grass and zero goodness in it so I want to give him minerals.

Hes still steadily losing weight and looking healthy/shiny despite being neglected!

Yeah if they're not massively fussy I'd do similar. My foal learned to eat a progressive earth mineral mix in some grass chaff as her "feed" really early as that's all her mum needed and I feel quite happy about that cos I expect that's all she will need until she starts work ?

I'll definitely consider doing this. I'm in Cornwall, so it's (comparably) warm still, and I think the grass still has a fair amount of nutrition in it (it's still growing and hay in the field is being ignored).

I don't think he'd be fussy about feed, so hopefully he would accept a low calorie feed. I've still got some feed from when he first arrived, as he was getting a small feed in his old home- so I would probably use that up first.

He seems healthy without supplements, but I obviously want to keep him that way, so I will definitely do some research!

 

[milliepops]

I was thinking about this earlier because my retirees live out with just grass, hay and whatever they forage from the hedges and they seem basically healthy.

But my growing and ridden horses I feel like I want to give the optimum nutrition, at least in a fairly practical way. Whether it makes a difference or not to a good doer, I'll never know as I don't have a control sample ?‍ funny old business but I notice little signs when my diet is really good instead of just OK so assume the same is true for horses

 

[sarahmac77]

Link to comparison thread from 2010
(1) Joint Supplements - April's Amateur Analysis | Horse and Hound Forum

Also...
Years ago I downloaded a couple of comparison spreadsheets from the internet (probably from a link on here) - one for vitamins / minerals and one for joint supplements.
I thought I had lost them but dug them out the other day.

I have had a go at updating the joint supplement spreadsheet by updating the cost of a tub - note I have not made any attempt to get the cheapest deal and have been fairly inconsistent in terms of the size of the tub chosen, which affects price per day.

I have assumed that the maintenance dose and the amounts of ingredient have not changed, though this may not be the case. Column P gives you the updated cost per day for a 500 kg horse. (Column O is the original cost per day .)
(I did update Suppleaze to Suppleaze Gold as I could not find Suppleaze on the web - data in red have been updated accordingly).
Columns R and S indicate the assumed cost of a tub and its size.

NB2 the original spreadsheet states that for Cortavet and Cortaflex the amounts of ingredients are not available on internet.
The dark grey hashed cells indicate not applicable.

Below are maintenance dose data:
View attachment 62274

Below are loading dose data:
View attachment 62275

This is great! Just what I was after! Excellent.

 

[Reacher]

This is great! Just what I was after! Excellent.

Suggest you don’t take the cost per dose as at all accurate - as per my disclaimers - though with better researched price data it would be easy to improve the comparison.
ETA - am happy to provide the spreadsheets if you wanted them - probably have to email them