Suspensory surgery (PSD) - your experiences/results

[LEC]

I think his feet look fine with good angles and nothing which would make me too worried. Its not terrible conformation but for a horse with several issues there is a lot that doesn't fit together as well as it could for longevity and angles. I am obsessed about the hind end. The goose rump and the link to the loins is tilted which for me places additional strain on the SI and thus will often impact on the suspensorys and hocks as well. Now the question is how much is postural and how much is frame? for me I would say it was mainly frame with additional issues around posture. You will improve some of it but there will always be a weakness and a fundamental pressure on those key areas. The hip to hock is long and combined with a low set neck means that its going to jam the front end for a bit until a balance can be found despite having a decent wither. That in itself would not worry me but its another thing to take into account.

My question to myself is always - is the horse going to do the job I want especially with a young horse with medical issues? what will the realistic future look like for this horse? I am always anti serious intervention (surgery) in young horses but that is a personal preference as I have found the outcomes poor in KS, Suspensorys etc. I tend to find something else will crop up fairly soon after.

 

[IrishMilo]

I wouldn’t do a neurectomy, that is cruel and I speak as an owner of a horse who had n & f prior to me owning him. He’s a quiet hack now, no tight circles.

Are you maybe thinking of the palmar neurectomy (bottom of the leg) where feeling in the foot is lost after de-nerving? With the neurectomy of the plantar they still retain sensation in the foot. Out of interest why do you think they're cruel? (if not referring to the former).

 

[LEC]

Are you maybe thinking of the palmar neurectomy (bottom of the leg) where feeling in the foot is lost after de-nerving? With the neurectomy of the plantar they still retain sensation in the foot. Out of interest why do you think they're cruel? (if not referring to the former).

Well any neurectomy is illegal in competition. When you look at the wording for the main disciplines. The difference is people get away with it as you have to look hard for the PSD surgery.

I have a horse with shaved suspensorys as I had them scanned back in December when having a horse who was subsequently found to have a pulled muscle and I have been paranoid at competitions that someone will say something as very obvious even several months later. I guess if I got pulled up for it I would get them to ring my vet who is luckily high up in eventing vet world.

 

[Regandal]

I was referring to the neurectomy for psd, which is a branch of the deep plantar nerve I think. It will leave an area on the leg numb, albeit a small area. My main objection though is that it may take away the pain but leave the underlying issue. I’m not sure which nerve they cut for navicular pain, I think that’s illegal in the uk. Or to compete the horse after de-nerving is.

 

[IrishMilo]

Well any neurectomy is illegal in competition. When you look at the wording for the main disciplines. The difference is people get away with it as you have to look hard for the PSD surgery.

Did you mean to quote me there? I know it's prohibited and didn't mention anything about competing.

 

[Willow1306]

I’ve known of multiple horses have PSD surgery with excellent results, either returning to the same level or higher. However, they were all good candidates for the procedure in terms of conformation etc. Based on the history and information of your own horse, I’m afraid I think that you’d likely be throwing good money after bad and, if it were me, I would probably not proceed with this particular horse. Having said that, I’m not a vet…

 

[TPO]

No first hand experience of PSD but I did own an ex-racer with less than ideal conformation who had, I found out later, fractured his pelvis in racing as a 2yr old.

It's a very long story involving a useless vet and changing his records from when I paid them to vet check him prior to purchase.

He ended up with a chronic, and seemingly undiagnosable, hoof issue that wouldnt resolve despite two surgeries and countless other things to attempt to cure it. Putting all the pieces together it appears as if he was compensating for the years old pelvis injury and the additional loading of his "good" leg caused, and then prevented the healing/caused the constant reoccurrence of, the hoof issue(s).

I did all the straightening and correcting posture work with him (very!) slowly starting from scratch several times over. Every time he progressed a wheel would fall off elsewhere. Basically he'd developed his own compensations and making him "correct" took them away which in turn caused damage elsewhere. It really was a vicious circle and a cycle that nothing managed to break.

He was the sweetest horse so I tried for him for as long as he was happy and comfortable. With the benefit of hindsight I should have let him go a lot sooner for my sake but I wouldn't have heard of it whilst in the midst of it.

The best thing for him was turning him out and letting him be, but he wasn't in any level of daily discomfort. He was field sound and not in pain until old(ish) age and a hard life being started at 16mths caught up with him aged 16.

Some of them when they have been so badly damaged by racing sadly can't be fixed. I've had friends in very similar positions with ex racers too.

Personally I dont find denerving of any kind to be ethical. As said above it doesn't fix anything. I'm also not a fan of joint injections so I'm definitely the odd bod in most horse circles ?

 

[Trouper]

Before I went down the operation route I think I would ask Tom Beech (The Osteopathic Vet) for a second opinion. With so many things going on I would want a holistic look at the horse and a view of how the whole picture might be able to be put back together. I think we sometimes get lost in treating individual conditions without fully considering the inter-connectedness of them all - hence my recommendation of Tom.

 

[Michen]

Another with an ex racer with a list of five plus problems that was just not fixable. It dawned on me when he had just galloped around the field with his mate and he couldn’t or wouldn’t lock his knee as he didn’t want to put the weight on his feet. His back legs continuously switching resting to try and ease the discomfort.

He was PTS the next day.

I’m afraid I think it’s very rare that these horses with issues all over can ever be in any sort of work. There is usually so much more than even what’s been diagnosed.

 

[IrishMilo]

I'm incredibly pessimistic when it comes to any type of prognosis and occasionally I've said 'Oh it's never going to come back from that' and then it has, and so I'm trying to not be such a cynical old bag about this. He's clearly not exactly a hardy type although that does make it easier to spot when he's in pain. My trainer has two horses who were both vet write-offs - one is 23 and in his 19th season BE still winning, and the other won his affiliated the other day. The horse in my avatar was niggled with lameness his whole life and despite being a wonky donky would happily skip a 1.25. I think I'm hoping for some kind of fairytale ending which I know very well is somewhat daft! I've been doing this long enough to know better...

 

[Regandal]

I'm incredibly pessimistic when it comes to any type of prognosis and occasionally I've said 'Oh it's never going to come back from that' and then it has, and so I'm trying to not be such a cynical old bag about this. He's clearly not exactly a hardy type although that does make it easier to spot when he's in pain. My trainer has two horses who were both vet write-offs - one is 23 and in his 19th season BE still winning, and the other won his affiliated the other day. The horse in my avatar was niggled with lameness his whole life and despite being a wonky donky would happily skip a 1.25. I think I'm hoping for some kind of fairytale ending which I know very well is somewhat daft! I've been doing this long enough to know better...

Don’t be too hard on yourself. With hindsight, my boy had lots of problems which culminated in his psd. He cannot do hard work of any description, but that suits me just fine, as I work full time and have zero interest in competing. It really depends on how he responds to treatment and what level of work you wish to return to. I really hope it goes well for you and him.

 

[IrishMilo]

Don’t be too hard on yourself. With hindsight, my boy had lots of problems which culminated in his psd. He cannot do hard work of any description, but that suits me just fine, as I work full time and have zero interest in competing. It really depends on how he responds to treatment and what level of work you wish to return to. I really hope it goes well for you and him.

Thank you. Well he's scuppered my plans to BS him so now I'll take whatever he can give!

I had a message from a friend tonight to say he had choke. He's had a few episodes over the last few months but luckily resolved very quickly.

Adding it to the list of things he's determined to bankrupt me for!

 

[IrishMilo]

Update to 'finish' the thread for anyone in future who might go through similar:

Spent most of the day with the vet today. She did blocks from the foot to the suspensories. He blocked positive to the suspensories on both legs but still not 100% right in trot. She's unsure if that's because of the SI or because of the old pelvis break or because he's just chronically under-muscled and unbalanced.

She X rayed the suspensories which showed the abnormalities in more details and did the hocks which showed mild changes in both.

She thinks the issues with him coughing and not being able to eat properly (the food is coming back out his nose on a daily basis now) is due to his tie back and not something that will be resolved.

With all these separate issues that are big and difficult in and of themselves, I'm not going to put him through a painful surgery for what is already a shit prognosis.

 

[TPO]

Liked in sympathy and support

Sorry that it wasn't better news ?

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I’m so sorry ? xx

 

[Regandal]

So sorry IM. He’s got a lot going on there ?

 

[LEC]

Sad to read this but you have explored everything.

 

[Cragrat]

I am so sorry to hear this

 

[BBP]

I’m really sorry to hear it. I’m in a similar position albeit with some different issues for mine and it’s rubbish.

 

[ycbm]

Update to 'finish' the thread for anyone in future who might go through similar:

Spent most of the day with the vet today. She did blocks from the foot to the suspensories. He blocked positive to the suspensories on both legs but still not 100% right in trot. She's unsure if that's because of the SI or because of the old pelvis break or because he's just chronically under-muscled and unbalanced.

She X rayed the suspensories which showed the abnormalities in more details and did the hocks which showed mild changes in both.

She thinks the issues with him coughing and not being able to eat properly (the food is coming back out his nose on a daily basis now) is due to his tie back and not something that will be resolved.

With all these separate issues that are big and difficult in and of themselves, I'm not going to put him through a painful surgery for what is already a shit prognosis.

You and he deserved better luck than that. Sorry IM.
.

 

[Birker2020]

Oh no, that's rubbish, I'm so sorry to hear this. x

 

[Trouper]

It's so sad when they are just not fixable. But you have tried everything and tested everything and done your very best for him so he could not have been in better hands. Many aren't so lucky.

 

[hock]

Sheeesh that’s gutting. Helps to make a confident decision but what a kick to the stomach. I am so very sorry.

 

[Jeni the dragon]

I'm really sorry to hear this.

 

[ycbm]

IM it might be too soon, but I just want you to know that whatever decision you make about safeguarding his future now will be the right one. Look after yourself.
.

 

[throwawayaccount]

So sorry to hear this x

 

[IrishMilo]

This forum is such a lovely place. He's being put to sleep on Tuesday. x

 

[Willow1306]

Sorry to hear that the outcome was not more positive, but fwiw I think you're making the best decision for both you and him.

 

[milliepops]

really sorry to read this. But as above it sounds like the only choice at this point. He's lucky to have an owner who puts his interests first.

 

[TPO]

He's lucky that you found him even if you don't feel very lucky right now.

It's the final heartbreaking kindness that can be done for them. I hope you can find some comfort knowing that no stone was left unturned. Take care of yourself x