Sycamore trees do kill!

[charliecrisps]

I've been posting on Facebook sites and alerting yards in my area about sycamore trees... as it's that time of year. I had such a tragic time when mine came down with atypical myopathy last year. But would seem people aren't taking in the advice... Someone who even commented on my warnings on Facebook groups thanking me for posting, carried on grazing the field & now the companion horse who was in field come down with AM & got PTS. Then today I find out that they all carried on grazing the field still and now another is on a drip with it: they was warned but chose to carry on grazing without any steps at all???!!
I feel very sad. And rather hacked off my efforts have gone unheard :-(

Please please don't make the mistake. Mine grazed the Same field for 5 years & had no adverse effect until last October. The field had horses on it ten years previous! I don't know why now ... But don't be a part of the 'it won't happen to me gang'

 

[Patchworkpony]

I was just about to post about this to ask how many seeds do people think it takes to kill a horse?

 

[charliecrisps]

Unfortuantly no one knows... This is partly the problem! :-( If you have to graze the field you need to Fence off the area, or Hoover the seeds up. Ideally Don't graze 24/7 & Supplement with hay. It's only for a couple of months ... Believe me it's not worth the risk. Horrid disease with high death rate.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

The thing is, there's a million and one things that can end a horses life. If I tried to guard against every little (or big) thing, I'd find I couldn't keep my horses anywhere unless I won the lottery and bought my own land to then have it landscaped into the perfect horsey paradise with snipers employed to guard all edges against stray rabbits which may decide to dig a hole in my field. And the horse will still die of *something* some day.

So I, like many others I expect, decide to do the best we can with the facilities we have available and to focus on enjoying our horses. Nobody goes out and buys a horse because we look around at out lives and decide we don't have enough annoying chores or enough things to worry us. It's supposed to be fun. My horses will have a good quality of life for the time that they're with me, they will live in a manner that enables them (and me) to be happy and if something occurs to cause them irreversible suffering they will be swiftly PTS.

I understand that having lost one to atypical myopathy you will be keen to prevent it again and it will be a big thing for you. It's good that you're warning others as they can then make an educated decision rather than doing things in ignorance. But if people choose to do things differently to you, you can't let it upset you or you'll spend most of your life distressed. I'd offer you a hug but you probably want to slap me by now!

 

[charliecrisps]

Yes I guess it may be my bugbear now, I'm just a bit upset for the horses... It was just so horrible to watch mine go through it. And when it's people I know who aren't fencing off the trees it's upsetting too. Haha, but def No slaps needed

 

[minkymoo]

But S&S, OP is pointing out that this can kill and there is a way of preventing it. I know someone whose horse quickly died from AM, it was devastating and I don't know why people actively choose to ignore the reasons.

I appreciate it's each to their own, but I can't imagine this is a nice way for a horse to die. It's just such a waste. Knowledge is power, it was certainly not something I knew very much about.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Friend's horse pts with it 2 nights ago.

 

[hairycob]

There have been a lot of deaths over the last week or so. It's only for a few weeks in spring & autumn that you need to take precautions. Is that really too much to ask to save your horse from an agonising death?

 

[Patchworkpony]

It's only for a few weeks in spring & autumn that you need to take precautions.

When do you consider these weeks to be. Also I would love to know how far the seeds can travel in a gale. You can't find every single seed - it's impossible. We have these wretched trees along the lane by our land and I'm now seriously considering not buying any ponies and giving up the horse world as I don't want to kill something. It's very sad as this wasn't the intention when we bought our house. I didn't realise (like so many people) that these trees were so dangerous. The irony is I avoided land with oak trees but acorns are far easier to pick up than winged seeds!

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

But S&S, OP is pointing out that this can kill and there is a way of preventing it. I know someone whose horse quickly died from AM, it was devastating and I don't know why people actively choose to ignore the reasons.

I appreciate it's each to their own, but I can't imagine this is a nice way for a horse to die. It's just such a waste. Knowledge is power, it was certainly not something I knew very much about.

There's a way of preventing laminitis too. But I still turned out a horse who had laminitis before I bought, onto a lush field in spring. Because that was the facilities available. Except stabling and horse didn't like being only one in and I needed a rest from the mucking out etc of winter, so a quality of life issue for both of us. Horse was fine but I was prepared for the risk I'd have to PTS. On livery and no opportunity to restrict grazing without stabling and I detest muzzles with the way they rub and frustrate the horse. Life is all about choices.

Many many things *can* be prevented with enough effort on the owners part. It bugs me far more to see a horse with recurrent mud fever forced to live out, with the owner often wailing about how there is nothing they can do (except stable it at night and apply barrier before turnout, but they don't want to), as that is something affecting the horses happiness and quality of life. Horses care about how they feel today, they dont worry about how they may die in the future. I realise I have a different outlook to a lot who post on here.

 

[cobgoblin]

I was a bit surprised last week when my farrier said he had just been to a horse with laminitis. He was moaning because the laminitis was caused by the vet giving a large amount of glucose ( horse was a known laminitic), turned out that the horse had recovered from AM. I explained that the vet had saved the horses life and had no choice. My farrier had no idea about sycamore poisoning. Hopefully he is now spreading the word.
If a farrier, who frequently works with local vets and visits all the local yards hasn't heard about the dangers of sycamore, how many horse owners are living in ignorance?

 

[Dave's Mam]

Flipping things fly for yonks.

 

[sare_bear]

I do agree, in the most part. I have my own land and have removed quite a few trees, but cannot remove all, as would have no trees left as they are nearly all sycamore! and lots are bordering others land. What I thought was sycamore free areas, with the gales last week is now not. Cannot believe how far the seeds have gone this year. Miles!! I can not hoover up 20+ thousand seeds. I have long grass, and they won't eat hay and nor do I have stables for them as I had plenty of land for them to live out. So what more can you do. I will be gutted if something happens, but I have no where else to move them too. Not everyone has loads of options available to them.
Also, I would say it is nearly a 6 month worry, as last winter we didn't really get any frosts to speak of, so there were cases also through the winter months.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

We have these wretched trees along the lane by our land and I'm now seriously considering not buying any ponies and giving up the horse world as I don't want to kill something. It's very sad as this wasn't the intention when we bought our house.

I don't really understand this. Why make yourself unhappy over something that may not happen? If the land is yours you could take some preventative measures if you wanted. Horses are born and die. Many don't have good lives or owners who will call a vet as needed rather than "wait a bit" when horse is suffering, to try to avoid the fee. A horse could do a lot worse than be owned by someone caring like yourself, even if their life was shorter than in the mythical "ideal" home.

 

[EstherYoung]

I have the same with my fields. Sycamores are the most common tree in this area. And the seeds travel a long way. It's not just a few weeks - the trees have been shedding for months. It does scare the bejesus out of me, we're sweeping the seeds up twice a day, we supplement with 24/7 fibre, they're well fed, they get extra vitamins. I don't know if it's enough. But I'll tell you now, there isn't a single field in our bit of west Yorkshire that isn't within seeding distance of a sycamore - they line every road, motorway, train track, and many field boundaries. So we cope and we pray, it's all we can do. Where would we move to?

 

[L&M]

I have to say I am with S&S - if we worried about every danger, we would never contemplate horse ownership.

Having said that, common sense must prevail, so if it is possible not to graze near sycamore, then that is the sensible option.

 

[Inthemud]

I live in the New Forest and we have a gazillion oak trees and sycamore trees around.. Most of the ponies (roaming or in fields) are fine. Some sadly die.

To me, commoning your animal and letting it wander over roads, at night, with no reflective neck band, is negligently stupid. To other people it is "a way of life" and fine.

Keeping horses seems to be a series of risk assessments and hopes for the best.....

 

[Patchworkpony]

I don't really understand this. Why make yourself unhappy over something that may not happen? If the land is yours you could take some preventative measures if you wanted. Horses are born and die. Many don't have good lives or owners who will call a vet as needed rather than "wait a bit" when horse is suffering, to try to avoid the fee. A horse could do a lot worse than be owned by someone caring like yourself, even if their life was shorter than in the mythical "ideal" home.

I wouldn't gallop a horse on the road knowing it had a chance of coming down and breaking its leg and by the same token I wouldn't willingly put an animal in a field that held even the slightest health risk. I love my ponies too much and couldn't bear to lose one knowing it could be my fault. Perhaps you wouldn't worry about putting a horse in a field full of ragwort either. Years ago I bought a beautiful welsh cob out of a field full of ragwort (against my better judgement) and I lost him eventually to liver cancer. Never again!

 

[lelly]

I am worried about the sycamores but have nowhere else to put my horses. After yesterday's storm the fields are covered in seeds and leaves. I am clearing up as much as possible but can't keep on top of it. I have advertised for grazing or livery, I check all the advertising boards in shops and ask everyone locally with no luck. So I am one of the many with no choice.

 

[hairycob]

Much as it goes against the grain with me - I'm very much a keep out as much as possible person - if you have a sycamore risk probably the best thing to do is stable for at least part of the day. I wish I could turn the clock back to last spring & not turn out 24/7 as soon as I could.

 

[Red-1]

I feel very sad. And rather hacked off my efforts have gone unheard :-(

'

Well I thanked Hairycob at the time when she (I presume) told me in a thread about her experiences. I knew to sweep up acorns, but had no idea Sycamore could be a problem. (As neither did many vets!).

Now, I got rid of one tree, trimmed another, and my horse came off his field and has been on arena turnout for a week already, as soon as they were dropping in numbers.

You don't know who you are helping.

But, at the same time each to their own, most horses will be out with Sycamore to no ill effects.

People have the freedom to see to their horses as they see best, it is all bound up with the fantastic experience that is horse ownership.

To quote an old trainer " you can't save them all".

For me, Hairycob helped me make a connection with October and swollen legs. Now my horse is safer than he was. You just don't know who you are helping to make connections, to tip the balance (with other evidence) to change management.

 

[leggs]

I (just having moved to this house) am cutting the ******** down (luckily only 2) and taking precautions in a meanwhile, not letting them graze in the fields that have the trees. Sorry for your loss but PLEASE keep venting your warnings, there are people that listen!!

 

[charlie76]

I have two trees. I have fenced them off and only turn out for four hours max, we have a huge amount of grass. I'm picking them up but its an impossible task.
Those that sadly lost horses.. Were they out all day\24\7?

 

[siennamum]

Could people who have sycamore trees near or as a boundary to their fields not create a pen which can be kept sycamore free and feed hay for a month or two. I have a somewhat relaxed attitude compared to some, but am surprised that people are happy to take the risk. I also know 2 horses who died locally a couple of years ago from AM. It is not a remote risk.

 

[charlie76]

I'm not happy to take the risk, it worries me everyday, I have reduced the risk( I hope!) By fencing a huge area off where the two trees are , have a vast amount of grass,pick up seeds daily( which is impossible tbh) , give ad lib hay over night and when they come in and only turn out for four hours max.I'm lucky in that I only have two trees but two yards I teach at are bordered by them, over two hundred acres each surrounded by them. They have no choice but to risk it.
However, both yards have well over 100 hundred horses , they have , between them , lost three horses to am in the past ,in a time span of over twenty years, both were when the seedlings were out and not the seeds.
I guess they have far more deaths from other causes over the years.
Its so difficult, a bit of me thinks I should keep mine in but then what? Do they get colic from being in? Or go beserk when they finally get back out? Its so difficult. I hope that my couple of hours out each day serves to prevent any of it.
At my previous yard we also lost three horses to it having never had a problem in the past.
All horses I know that have died from it have had no grass and were out ,24/7 and had been out for a few days without coming in. They were all fatties so weren't having hay.

 

[diamonddogs]

I feel your pain, I really do.

I lost my beautiful mare nearly three years ago now. She showed all the signs of AM (though I didn't know anything about this ailment at the time) and she died 24 hours after she first collapsed. I subsequently read the new research on sycamore seeds, and was horrified to see hundreds of them around the yard this week - it'll be three years on 10 November since I lost her, so roundabout the same time. I mentioned it to another livery, but I wasn't taken seriously. I keep sweeping them up and bagging them up (I daren't put them on the muckheap as they'll use it to spread on the fields next spring and I don't know how long the toxins stick around) but nobody seems bothered.

I'm 99% sure there aren't any sycamores in our fields, but like someone else said, they can travel for miles.

Oh well, I'll just continue to be diligent about sweeping up and hope that someone will take this seriously.

 

[Mynyddcymro]

Hoping one of you could answer my questions! We have what I think are sycamores bordering the land where I keep my two Shetlands. I have literally just moved them off their bare paddock onto a very lush rested paddock for winter. They go out 10 hours a day and have adlib hay at night when they come in. Is this okay? I'm hoping lots of grass means they will be more picky with what they eat. Although lots of grass and Shetlands is a juggling act in its self!
Must admit AM seems to be becoming more and more prominent - maybe because we're sharing experiences? Like others I thought acorns were my biggest problem!

 

[MagicMelon]

The thing is, there's a million and one things that can end a horses life. If I tried to guard against every little (or big) thing, I'd find I couldn't keep my horses anywhere unless I won the lottery and bought my own land to then have it landscaped into the perfect horsey paradise with snipers employed to guard all edges against stray rabbits which may decide to dig a hole in my field. And the horse will still die of *something* some day.

I think the problem with this AM is that the temperature / weather conditions have made the issue far worse than usual? I totally agree that there are plenty of things that can basically lead to the death of a horse but if something like this is proving to be worse than normal than I would certainly do my best to try to avoid it. I cut down my 2 sycamore trees which were lining the field as soon as I saw they were starting to seed, one of the trunks is now used as a little XC jump

 

[maree t]

I have a large field with 5 big oak trees down one side. The horses are fenced off from them . I didnt realise the problems with sycamore TBH. If they were in my field they would be fenced off, I know how easy it is for horses to do themselves harm so I need to make sure that I do my best to get rid of anything that I know is a risk .

 

[charlie76]

Sadly I can't cut mine down,I'm on a rented yartsd and oneis huge!