Symptom of colic???

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foxtrot

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Got a horsey on loan, so obviously i dont know all her little quirks yet as havent had her long. After feeding her tonite on a small happy hoof chaff feed she went straight down for a roll, i had never seen this before and was always taught if a horse rolls after a feed this is not a good sign.
i stood with her for an extra 10 mins after this and she never attempted to roll again, no kicking, pawing etc...and quite happily then stood eating the small grape full of silage i offered her. Why did she roll????what caused this??? i think im being a little bit over anxious about this but as she is not my horse.
 
I would say that if she is eating hay/lage she will be fine. I have found that the first sign of colic is looking at the flanks and general signs of discomfort and they usually stop eating..
I feel for you as it is always more difficult when you don't know the horse well. TBH I have never heard the thing about the horse rolling after a feed before. I would have thought that it is probably an old wives tale (or old farmers tale) based on the fact that rolling after a feed could maybe cause colic, in theory.

ETA I had missed the 'silage' in the OP. Please don't feed her silage, it is intended for cows which have a very different digestive system.
 
It wasna an itch as she kicked her belly a few times before rolling & was round & round like they do when thay have colic but once she had rolled....nothing.

I know what they say bout silage and have read a little bout it i.e..botulisim. As far as a i know as long as the field the silage came off was not treated with a particular agent (canna mind the name), and they are only eating it on the day/day after it is opened it should be quite safe for horses to eat. I do know under no circumstances are they allowed pit silage as it is to chopped. If i am wrond about any of the above it would be great to know as i dont want to be feeding my horses the wrong things.
 
she is not given full access to an open bale of silage and quite often also gets hay depending on which is left, easier to give!!
due to when we live and the quite often high winds hay once on the ground wouldnt last a pip, at least silage has a little weight about it
 
If you are feeding silage you should not be looking after a horse!! no wonder he/she is uncomfortable, if this where my horse you had on loan i would be taking it back immediately and you would be paying all future vets bills, if they where in any way related to being fed silage, as it is unsuitable and clearly you are inexperienced and irrisponsable!!!
 
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/05-055.htm
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=202712
A bit of info for the OP, maybe think twice about what your feeding her. You may find it easier now to be feeding this, but would buying a hay feeder really be that hard? Certainly a lot easier than treating colic and the other conditions it's feeding has been associated with.

Also, to add, her discomfort is probably down to the high protein causing digestive disturbances, as it's intended to be eaten by animals with 4 stomachs!
 
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Well.. id stop feeding the silage for a start. And as for the rolling, she probably rolled because she felt like it! Had you put new bedding down for her? My horse sometimes kicks his belly when he rolls, if you watch a horse rolling, they generally tend to flail around like that. If she was fine after and ate properly after i really wouldnt be concerned. But the silage concerns me.

ETA: Silage has been associated with colic as it is. If your worried about colic id get her off it immediately.
 
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stroppy said:
If you are feeding silage you should not be looking after a horse!! no wonder he/she is uncomfortable, if this where my horse you had on loan i would be taking it back immediately and you would be paying all future vets bills, if they where in any way related to being fed silage, as it is unsuitable and clearly you are inexperienced and irrisponsable!!!
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Thankyou for your lovely upbeat comment :rolleyes: couldnt possibly have said it any nicer myself!!!!:confused:
i came on here to get information about a matter i was unsure of this obviously regards me as irresponsable...& by no means am i inexperienced perhaps inexperienced in feeding horses silage but not in keeping horses pls do not make assumptions based on what you can pull from the above statements as i cannot write my life story on here.
i previously stated i have researched feeding horses silage i would not do anything delibrately to harm a horse, but without having to explain start to finish how we made our silage it would be difficult to get u to understand.
The 'silage' was not baled in 24hrs and actually lay for about 3 days so had a chance to dry but was unturned, the field was not fertilised or treated in any way so contains no harmful chemicals...again i do belive if its real silage horses hate the taste due to the acidity, she is by no means starved into eating it and is doing by her choice!!!!
 
If you had any idea of the damage silage can do you would not be feeding her it, and the fact that you have stated fedding silage is 'easier' just highlights your laziness and irresponsability, send the horse back to its owner as you clearly can't be bothered to look after her properly, if left with you she will more than likely suffer painful, unpleasant death, you disgust me!
 
Feeding silage concerns me, its not designed for horses, its designed for cows!

It can cause a lot more problems that just botulism, they can get all kinds of poisoning from it, the younger the horse the greater the risk, older horses stand a better chance of coping with it, but it still should not be fed.

It is however becoming increasingly popular in some countries to feed silage to horses, but it is not in the horses best interest, the popularity stems totally from the humans perspective, its cheaper but comes with risks!

As for the horse possibly having colic, it doesn't sound like colic, possibly discomfort and I'd lay money on it the silage is responsible for it :(
 
Toast said:
Surely if you have experience in keeping horses, you shouldnt have needed to ask the question in the original post. It made you out to sound like a very inexperienced horse owner.
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Totally agree, the OP comes across as extremely inexperienced.
The subject of correct forrage and understanding colic is as basic as it gets, I genuinely believe if you are not knowledgeable in such areas, you really shouldn't own a horse because getting it wrong or not knowing could kill said horse!! :(
 
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foxtrot said:
she is not given full access to an open bale of silage and quite often also gets hay depending on which is left, easier to give!!
due to when we live and the quite often high winds hay once on the ground wouldnt last a pip, at least silage has a little weight about it
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Maybe should be about what is best for the horse, not what "which is left, easier to give" Silage is simply not suitable, could be making her ill.

Our horses also live high up, but they get haylage in the field.
FDC
 
i've known the symptoms of colic since i was 11 which is when i started to get involved with horses.
if your horse is eating i wouldn't think she has colic, check for gut noices on both sides, check for fresh droppings etc,its not hard to learn the symptoms of colic :o
 
This is exactly why so many people are put off from posting here, all you needed to do was answer the op's question and maybe offer a little advice on what they feed, but to call her an irresponsible owner who doesn't deserve a horse really is a unfair, you really need to put it into perspective, at least the op is on here looking for advice, to me that is not such a terrible owner.

Lighten up its christmas.
 
Oh dear oh dear. So many people freaking out cos she called it silage. OP - why do you call it silage and not haylage? The only difference between silage and haylage is water content. Everything else that people are twittering on about is determined by the species and stage of growth of the grass (more or less anyway). For example 'Silage' prepared for hill suckler cattle will be lower in energy than most 'horse haylages', especially the green horsehage. From the OP description, I'd say she is feeding her horse haylage, and she has possibly learnt her description from someone who calls all wrapped forage 'silage' and unwrapped forage hay. I have dealt with 'hay' that has a higher moisture content than some 'haylage'! It wasn't very nice hay!

Botulism or clostridium botulinum is not a problem specific to silage. Indeed if all silage contained it, there would be very few cows around as they too are susceptible to botulism. However, they are slightly less sensitive than horses but very far from immune. All preserved forages are susceptible to contamination with clostridium botulinum. This occurs when the grass is cut too low, or the ground is uneven or there are molehills and soil (where the bacteria is found) is lifted with the grass and incorporated into the bale. The anaerobic conditions (no oxygen as the wrap seals it out) are ideal for the clostridium botulinum to thrive and multiply and produce the toxin which casues botulism poisoning.

Alll this said, even 'horse prepared haylage' can upset the digestive system of many horses - some cannot cope with the alteration to the pH caused by feeding preserved forages. So indeed, the forage may be the cause of the digestive discomfort but then again, so may be a decreased water intake in this very cold weather!

Also, I sincerely hope your horse is in a field with a lot of grass or is only 8hh as a 'small feed of happy hoof and a small grapeful of silage/haylage/whatever' is by FAR insufficient to sustain anything larger!! Insufficient feeding can also casue colic symtoms.

In answer to your original question, yes rolling can be sign of colic. It can also be a sign that your horse fancied a roll!! If this was unusual behaviour, I'd be watching for additional signs of distress or unease(such as increased breathing rate/effort, pulse rate, general restlessness/unusually subdued behaviour, looking at/biting flanks etc) for a few hours afterwards.
 
Foxtrot hun, be careful about using your horse's likes and dislikes to judge what is or isn't ok for her to eat. As an example, some horses and ponies that have eaten ragwort actually develop a taste for it. Some horses develop a taste for acorns. The list goes on. The horse hasn't read the text books on what is safe for them to eat. They rely on us, the owners, to keep them safe. And don't say oh, nobody tells feral ponies what to eat and they seem ok. Many of them aren't ok at all. Take care hun. Feed your horse according to what YOU know is safe for her to eat, not according to what she will or won't eat herself x
 
MarleyMoo said:
This is exactly why so many people are put off from posting here, all you needed to do was answer the op's question and maybe offer a little advice on what they feed, but to call her an irresponsible owner who doesn't deserve a horse really is a unfair, you really need to put it into perspective, at least the op is on here looking for advice, to me that is not such a terrible owner.

Lighten up its christmas.
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The op has had her query answered and people have given advise, and the general perspective is silage is not good for her horse.
As for irresponsible etc, I think its a fair point as the basics on feeding and symptoms of colic really should be known by anyone who owns a horse, as I stated earlier, lack of knowlege in such areas can lead to a horses death and a horse dying due to ignorance would be deemed irresponsible to most horse owners I think.
The OP appears to still be happy feeding her horse silage, so has no intentions of taking advice on board, so its all pretty irrelevant anyway :D
Thats if it is silage, of course we can only go by what the OP stated in her original statement, I now question if it is silage or haylage, and now wonder why I even bothered with the thread to start with ! :(
 
as i live on a farm large wrapped bales are still called silage, i do belive it is likely a horse minded person that may have come upon the name haylage?? i apologise if this has caused confusion but if the said product is called silage day in day out in my life that is what im gonna say.
thankyou to all the sensible people who posted and any1else if you are truly concerned about the welfare of my horses i invite u to proceed with the appropriate actions. I have full confidence in my ability in caring for horses & will not be bullied or belittled by people such as 'stroppy'.
The comment easier was said losely and i meant how difficult it has been to access food of late due to the weather conditions (we were dealing with -18 conditons and over 10in of snow in places) but i should not have to explain myself.
perhaps i worded the first question wrong but i was trying to decipher is was she possibley becoming impacted and did her rolling help shift any blockage could i re-occur...had any seen symptoms get worse from what she was displaying rolling after feed??? but people on her tend to get lost in their own opinions and judgements and away it goes.
 
The fact you claim to know what you are doing in two seperate posts,but still felt the need to ask about symptoms of colic,just goes to show you don't know as much as you think you do,or know as much as you should when looking after a horse of you own
 
As for horse having colic symptoms just based on him/her rolling after eating, its very hard to tell .

Things you need to take into consideration are ...

* droppings ? ( ie are there many droppings, what is the texture of the droppings (no need for feeling :p) colour .
* Does horse seem dull ? check membranes ( with my mare I can normally tell just by looking at her eyes as she goes quite sleepy and dull in the eye)
* stomach noise on both sides
* Temperature, sweating etc .
* Wanting to continue to roll, kicking out at flanks, just generally looking uncomfortable.


Just a few things, hopefully once you get to know all the little "quirks" of your new loan horse, you should hopefully be able to establish what is normal behaviour .

Hope that helps . :)
 
stroppy said:
The fact you claim to know what you are doing in two seperate posts,but still felt the need to ask about symptoms of colic,just goes to show you don't know as much as you think you do,or know as much as you should when looking after a horse of you own
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i was enquiring about a situation i had not seen before!! a horse displaying colic symptoms immediately after eating a feed and then appearing to be fine. i was trying to find out if the situation was likely to escalate
 
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foxtrot said:
i was enquiring about a situation i had not seen before!! a horse displaying colic symptoms immediately after eating a feed and then appearing to be fine. i was trying to find out if the situation was likely to escalate
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There's some general information about colic on this website
http://www.liv.ac.uk/equinecolic/index.htm

For your individual horse, I guess all you can do is wait and observe her carefully to see if she shows any further signs. Monitor how much dung she passes, water/food she drinks etc.
Hope she's ok,
S :D
 
The 8 YO TB in the stable next to me at my yard has suffered from a low grade colic intermittently over the last few weeks. He does not roll or try and get down but absolutely drips with sweat, box walks, digs up his bed, looks round at his tummy and tries to kick it every now and again. The vet has advised soaking his hay and I believe when the ice clears he is off for investigative tests.
 
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