Tacking and leaving yard issues. Help ??

[EllieMc]

Hi all. Not quite sure if this belongs here. First post.

ok so. I have a 17.3 refuses the bridle. Giraffe neck goes straight up and as you can imagine, It’s hard to get on. Lots of praises and patience and eventually we get there. Any tips?
Also the bigger problem. If people or his buddies are in their stable /yard he plants. Roots to the ground and will not budge. I’ve tried getting on him outside the yard but no difference. I’ve even had to get people lead rope us with force out the yard, he happy hacks with others. Once out he is having the time of his life. Forward happy doing all I ask etc

For months prior to this we have been happy to leave the yard . Literally get I on tell him to go and he goes. No kicks etc to get him going.
Any thoughts?

 

[Orangehorse]

For a change in behaviour there is a cause.

Have his teeth been done recently? They should be done twice a year.

Otherwise, have you tried to offer a Polo in your hand when you want to put the bridle on? Or some other tempting treat.

As for the not wanting to leave the yard, if you can rule out lameness, or teeth or saddle issues, ulcers, etc. then has he become very attached to one of the other horses and doesn't want to leave.

What does your instructor think?

There is a book called "Brain, Pain or Training?" which just about sums up the problems there are. I'm sorry I can't be any more help, but I don't have enough experience dealing with problems like this.

 

[Cortez]

For bridling a very tall horse, stand on an upturned bucket or chair, and make sure the reins are over his neck before you go to put the head stall on. If the horse is ignoring your aids and there’s nothing physically wrong , you’ll just have to make him do things. Horses soon learn to take the pee when they figure out you’re not going to be insistent.

 

[EllieMc]

Thank you.
he is fine me putting the reins on it’s just the bridle. I know he is taking the pee. It’s almost like he is changing his behaviours to see what he can challenge me with.

 

[EllieMc]

For a change in behaviour there is a cause.

Have his teeth been done recently? They should be done twice a year.

Otherwise, have you tried to offer a Polo in your hand when you want to put the bridle on? Or some other tempting treat.

As for the not wanting to leave the yard, if you can rule out lameness, or teeth or saddle issues, ulcers, etc. then has he become very attached to one of the other horses and doesn't want to leave.

What does your instructor think?

There is a book called "Brain, Pain or Training?" which just about sums up the problems there are. I'm sorry I can't be any more help, but I don't have enough experience dealing with problems like this.

thank you for your comments. I believe it’s the horse in the stable next to him as we were walking out no issues before the horses came in. Just a pain as I can’t chuck every horse out of their stable for me to happily leave the yard.
He is due his teeth to be done too so yes that could be part of the problem.

 

[BBP]

For bridling a very tall horse, stand on an upturned bucket or chair, and make sure the reins are over his neck before you go to put the head stall on. If the horse is ignoring your aids and there’s nothing physically wrong , you’ll just have to make him do things. Horses soon learn to take the pee when they figure out you’re not going to be insistent.

Im about to duck for cover as Im not usually one to go against Cortez as they are so much more experienced than me i have no doubt, but as I’ve got older I seem to have got further away from this way of thinking. It works and will get the job done if you think it is taking the pee, but I’m now more minded on how my horse feels about life now. I don’t think they take the pee so much as communicate messages that we don’t particularly want to hear. So if my horse didn’t want to accept the bridle I wouldn’t be standing on chairs or buckets, I’d be working on taking the time to make my horse comfortable enough to lower its head so that I don’t have to reach up to giraffe ears. That might mean not riding for a while and investing in the relationship. So that’s going right back to how the horse is to catch and bring in. Does it come up to you and lower its head to be haltered? Does it stand but turn its head away or lift its head or roll its eye back/harden its eye, even fractionally, as you go to put the head collar strap over? If so, that is where I would be starting. But I have all the time in the world. Working on the pillars of relaxation, that sort of thing. I honestly believe that if you can work on those things and help the horse to relax into things like haltering and bridling, a lot of other issues melt away because the foundations of trust and relaxation are there. I made loads of mistakes with BBP, but I am enjoying a new way of thinking and being around my horses now.

 

[BSL2]

If health checks done, I put honey on the bit helps the pony think the bit is a nice tasty thing. I prefer to actual treats.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Put a headcollar on him and put over his neck then stand on something and put the bridle on him you have a lot more control, I find a little treat each time helps get the head where you want it.

One of mine didn't hack alone I started by handwalking a very short route everyday for about a week, then I would get on just as I get into the woods as the few metres of road was his worst sticking point, then eventually I could get on straight away once they do this easily without any napping, I then introduce another short route in hand and repeat the whole thing again and again.

Mine is not cured but his better and I don't have battles with him I simply get off if he doesn't go forward, as forcing him just got him very upset and it just wasn't a positive experience.

 

[EllieMc]

Im about to duck for cover as Im not usually one to go against Cortez as they are so much more experienced than me i have no doubt, but as I’ve got older I seem to have got further away from this way of thinking. It works and will get the job done if you think it is taking the pee, but I’m now more minded on how my horse feels about life now. I don’t think they take the pee so much as communicate messages that we don’t particularly want to hear. So if my horse didn’t want to accept the bridle I wouldn’t be standing on chairs or buckets, I’d be working on taking the time to make my horse comfortable enough to lower its head so that I don’t have to reach up to giraffe ears. That might mean not riding for a while and investing in the relationship. So that’s going right back to how the horse is to catch and bring in. Does it come up to you and lower its head to be haltered? Does it stand but turn its head away or lift its head or roll its eye back/harden its eye, even fractionally, as you go to put the head collar strap over? If so, that is where I would be starting. But I have all the time in the world. Working on the pillars of relaxation, that sort of thing. I honestly believe that if you can work on those things and help the horse to relax into things like haltering and bridling, a lot of other issues melt away because the foundations of trust and relaxation are there. I made loads of mistakes with BBP, but I am enjoying a new way of thinking and being around my horses now.

thank you. It’s a tough one because he has had so many riders and lost confidence in many things. I’ve spoken to the last few riders he had and he has always been a problem getting to his bridle on. He will lower his head happily but hates his ear bonnet being put on but couldn’t care less if he is chomping on food from his bowl. He will happily come to me be caught come when called let’s me groom him out his head collar on etc. one thing I have noticed is that his bonnet and bridle pass his eyes and I’m wondering if he has sight problems. Which I’m going to get checked. It’s almost like it’s big enough to see and make him out his head up away from things. He also has never allowed fly masks to be put on

he has gained so much confidence since I’ve had him. He used to spook at everything. Pigeons rabbits we’ve spun around and bolted at dogs and now we merrily walk on by. He loves being out now and we’ve been hacking on some fairly long hacks now and then and he’s showing me he can happily do it. I’m just stumped on leaving the yard and this bridle issue. Leaving the yard is the biggest issue.

 

[Goldenstar]

Do you need a fly mask ?

 

[BBP]

Im about to duck for cover as Im not usually one to go against Cortez as they are so much more experienced than me i have no doubt, but as I’ve got older I seem to have got further away from this way of thinking. It works and will get the job done if you think it is taking the pee, but I’m now more minded on how my horse feels about life now. I don’t think they take the pee so much as communicate messages that we don’t particularly want to hear. So if my horse didn’t want to accept the bridle I wouldn’t be standing on chairs or buckets, I’d be working on taking the time to make my horse comfortable enough to lower its head so that I don’t have to reach up to giraffe ears. That might mean not riding for a while and investing in the relationship. So that’s going right back to how the horse is to catch and bring in. Does it come up to you and lower its head to be haltered? Does it stand but turn its head away or lift its head or roll its eye back/harden its eye, even fractionally, as you go to put the head collar strap over? If so, that is where I would be starting. But I have all the time in the world. Working on the pillars of relaxation, that sort of thing. I honestly believe that if you can work on those things and help the horse to relax into things like haltering and bridling, a lot of other issues melt away because the foundations of trust and relaxation are there. I made loads of mistakes with BBP, but I am enjoying a new way of thinking and being around my horses now.

I would add to my previous post that I think consistency and clarity is really important, so picking your approach and sticking to it. If you decide today and tomorrow to work on relaxation and getting him comfortable with bridling but on day 3 decide you really want to ride and so climb on a chair and make him do what you want, then there was almost no point doing days 1 and 2. It will confuse him and you will lose trust if you listen to what he is trying to say occasionally but then force your opinion on him the next day. I have made this mistake. So I’d say look at the differing advice you get on here, and from your instructors, see what feels best with your horse, your gut and your way of being, and then be consistent in your approach. You say leaving the yard is the biggest problem, but how he is to catch, halter, lead in, groom, bridle and saddle are the first communication points that set you up for your day. If he is already saying he isn’t comfortable, you have less chance of him being confident heading out of the gate. But if he is calm and accepting of all of those stages, that’s a great foundation.

I caveat this by saying I am just an average horse person enjoying my own horsemanship journey, i am not a professional and this is just my personal outlook on dealing with horses now.

 

[Kat]

What happens if you ditch the bonnet?

My horse hates them and would probably object if I put one on every ride. I never use one.

 

[ycbm]

Do you need a fly mask ?

And have you checked his ears for plaques? If he has little white spots in his ears they can be very painful and most horses don't like them touched. If he's got them, they're viral, you can't cure them with anything so don't go putting lotions and potions on them, that's just likely to make him headshy.

The worst cases have to have their bridle undone to get on and would never tolerate anything put on their ears.
.

 

[rextherobber]

I'd do same as BBP, and also investigate for physical issues too. If he's just messing you about, I can understand napping, but not the biting and striking out. How long have you owned him? It's possible he just hates the yard, (many years ago I had a horse on livery who kept trying to nip me on the way back to her turnout field, turned out her fieldmate was bullying her) .I'd also stop the pony nuts, lots of them have mollasses and alfalfa in, which can trigger behavioural issues. It's also good to use things like the roadworks as a learning thing, (I actively seek these things out!) but as part of your groundwork, so that might not be for now! Having agreed with BBP, I also agree with Cortez, I think you need professional help to get you back on track (Michael Peace?) Aural Plaques can cause issues with head and ears, but it sounds like you have more than that going on, tbh... I think the first step is get professional help. Just seen ycbm has suggested aural plaques too

 

[ycbm]

I'd do same as BBP, and also investigate for physical issues too. If he's just messing you about, I can understand napping, but not the biting and striking out.

OP hasn't mentioned biting and striking out?
.

 

[MarvelVillis]

Was just going to suggest plaques too. My friend's horse had them and she hated the bridle going on.

 

[Kat]

Was just going to suggest plaques too. My friend's horse had them and she hated the bridle going on.

Bridle fit could also be an issue, whether there are plaques or not the bridle could be pinching, especially if worn with an ear bonnet.

 

[dorsetladette]

thank you. It’s a tough one because he has had so many riders and lost confidence in many things. I’ve spoken to the last few riders he had and he has always been a problem getting to his bridle on. He will lower his head happily but hates his ear bonnet being put on but couldn’t care less if he is chomping on food from his bowl. He will happily come to me be caught come when called let’s me groom him out his head collar on etc. one thing I have noticed is that his bonnet and bridle pass his eyes and I’m wondering if he has sight problems. Which I’m going to get checked. It’s almost like it’s big enough to see and make him out his head up away from things. He also has never allowed fly masks to be put on

he has gained so much confidence since I’ve had him. He used to spook at everything. Pigeons rabbits we’ve spun around and bolted at dogs and now we merrily walk on by. He loves being out now and we’ve been hacking on some fairly long hacks now and then and he’s showing me he can happily do it. I’m just stumped on leaving the yard and this bridle issue. Leaving the yard is the biggest issue.

Sounds like he's a bit head shy. My old pony was very head shy. putting things over his ears or past his eye caused huge stress. We worked around it for a while until he built trust in me. His bridle went on like a headcollar, undoing the buckles and popping the head piece over his neck. He didn't wear a nose band for a long while. Then we started slowly putting his bridle on over his ears. I finally got to a point where we could loosen the bridle a couple of holes either side which gave us a bit more space to get his ears through with out upsetting him or me.

As for leaving the yard. Can you walk him out in hand with a few treats a few times without going for to long a ride. Just a wonder up the lane in hand and back with a handful of treats in your pocket so his focus is on you and not what he's leaving behind. Then try a few times making him walk out with purpose and then maybe long rein him if its safe to do so. If he has confidence issues sometimes having you on the ground with him might just be all he needs to start.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

For a change in behaviour there is a cause.

Have his teeth been done recently? They should be done twice a year.

Otherwise, have you tried to offer a Polo in your hand when you want to put the bridle on? Or some other tempting treat.

As for the not wanting to leave the yard, if you can rule out lameness, or teeth or saddle issues, ulcers, etc. then has he become very attached to one of the other horses and doesn't want to leave.

What does your instructor think?

There is a book called "Brain, Pain or Training?" which just about sums up the problems there are. I'm sorry I can't be any more help, but I don't have enough experience dealing with problems like this.

^^^ agree with this. There WILL be a reason (or reasons.....) for the behaviour and I'd be looking at the obvious such as saddle-fitter, back check, and teeth as the problem getting the bridle on might be indicative of pain/discomfort around the poll area somewhere. With my mare I went through a period of riding her bitless - thought I was doing the right "natural horsemanship" thing...... until she started not wanting to be caught in the field and developing evasion behaviours. As soon as I put her back in her original bitted bridle we had no more issues! Which is why I would strongly suspect pain and/or discomfort somewhere - it could be something as simple as the horse disliking the feel of cold metal in the mouth.

Re. the solo riding/leaving the yard: I would very strongly suggest a professional - my old lad had been in a trekking centre when I had him and hadn't ever gone solo. He would plant, spin and/or rear and I just wasn't "seeing" the issues myself; however a professional came in and saw right away what needed to be worked on, and we eventually got him sorted. He then went on to be a lovely boy out hacking and we had many sweet hours together. The right professional can be a gamechanger.

 

[AntiPuck]

My horse used to go into giraffe mode to be bridled (or just walk off) until I took her bitless (exactly the same headstall, different noseband and no bit attachment) and she now pushes her nose into the bridle and stands with head lowered. She really disliked bits, even with one chosen for her by a bit fitter.

Not saying you have to go bitless (although maybe worth a try), but am saying that something is uncomfortable, or something that the horse associates the bridle with is, so you need to figure out what it is.

 

[Honey08]

Our 17h horse used to do this. My 6’4 husband had to tack him up when we tried him because nobody else could reach! (He was at a dealer’s yard and left with two inexperienced grooms to show him). I find with him, a fuss and a cuddle before tacking him up goes a long way. Plus warming the bit now it’s getting colder. Make it five minutes of nice time each time you tack up. This horse taught me a lot over the 15 years we’ve had him. You can’t force him or be tough with him or you can see a red mist descending over his face very quickly. But if you give him a tickle and calm him down it melts and he listens.

 

[EllieMc]

Sounds like he's a bit head shy. My old pony was very head shy. putting things over his ears or past his eye caused huge stress. We worked around it for a while until he built trust in me. His bridle went on like a headcollar, undoing the buckles and popping the head piece over his neck. He didn't wear a nose band for a long while. Then we started slowly putting his bridle on over his ears. I finally got to a point where we could loosen the bridle a couple of holes either side which gave us a bit more space to get his ears through with out upsetting him or me.

As for leaving the yard. Can you walk him out in hand with a few treats a few times without going for too long a ride. Just a wonder up the lane in hand and back with a handful of treats in your pocket so his focus is on you and not what he's leaving behind. Then try a few times making him walk out with purpose and then maybe long rein him if it’s safe to do so. If he has confidence issues sometimes having you on the ground with him might just be all he needs to start.

thank you for your reply.
he will happily walk with me on the ground, can be a little hesitant at first when leaving the yard but he will do it.
he also won’t take the bit. I’ve tried treats in hand etc but he refuses. I’ll try what you have done with your bridle and see if that works. Thank you again. Much appreciated

 

[EllieMc]

^^^ agree with this. There WILL be a reason (or reasons.....) for the behaviour and I'd be looking at the obvious such as saddle-fitter, back check, and teeth as the problem getting the bridle on might be indicative of pain/discomfort around the poll area somewhere. With my mare I went through a period of riding her bitless - thought I was doing the right "natural horsemanship" thing...... until she started not wanting to be caught in the field and developing evasion behaviours. As soon as I put her back in her original bitted bridle we had no more issues! Which is why I would strongly suspect pain and/or discomfort somewhere - it could be something as simple as the horse disliking the feel of cold metal in the mouth.

Re. the solo riding/leaving the yard: I would very strongly suggest a professional - my old lad had been in a trekking centre when I had him and hadn't ever gone solo. He would plant, spin and/or rear and I just wasn't "seeing" the issues myself; however a professional came in and saw right away what needed to be worked on, and we eventually got him sorted. He then went on to be a lovely boy out hacking and we had many sweet hours together. The right professional can be a gamechanger.

Thank you.
im Going to get his teeth eyes back etc looked at as you’ve suggested and also get some extra help to see what’s going on.
I really appreciate everyone’s comments. Thank you.

 

[Miss_Millie]

My horse used to do the same, throwing her head up in the air and circling. The bridle she came with was not a good fit at all. There were pressure points on the TMJ due to too small a browband and too small a headpiece. The bit was also completely unsuitable, causing constant pressure even when there was no contact on the reins. Horses have nerves all over their face, an incorrectly fitting bridle can cause a lot of pain. It would be like if you were forced to wear a helmet that was too small, making your skull feel like it is in a vice.

Listen to your horse, he is trying to tell you that something is wrong. It could be the bridle, the bit, or maybe even both. I'm not sure where you are in the UK, but this site has a list of professional bit/bridle fitters who can assess your current setup for you and help to modify it:

https://www.horsebitfit.com/find-your-local-consultant-here.php

You might want to try bitless as an option too. Good luck, I hope that you get it sorted soon

 

[moorhillhorses]

Maybe a treat everytime the bit goes in

 

[dorsetladette]

he also won’t take the bit. I’ve tried treats in hand etc but he refuses. I’ll try what you have done with your bridle and see if that works. Thank you again. Much appreciated

In that case. Check his tongue for any marks and check your bit for any sharp edges or links that may pinch. and like others have said have his teeth looked at.

Honey on the bit is a good idea for getting ponies a accept the bit. I do this with my babies so they associate it with a good experience.

 

[smolmaus]

Maybe a treat everytime the bit goes in

Just to add to this, I rushed things with my mare and went very quickly to "treat when bit is in mouth" and she started doing giraffe mode anyway. Going back to shaping the behaviour properly and building up lowering her head into the bridle, touching the bit with her nose, mouthing the bit, eventually putting the bit in her mouth herself made a huge difference. Will make it easier to spot which exact part of the process he has a problem with too, if that is perhaps things going near his eyes or his ears.

 

[EllieMc]

In that case. Check his tongue for any marks and check your bit for any sharp edges or links that may pinch. and like others have said have his teeth looked at.

Honey on the bit is a good idea for getting ponies an accept the bit. I do this with my babies so they associate it with a good experience.

Thank you. I’ll have a look and try honey

 

[EllieMc]

Just to add to this, I rushed things with my mare and went very quickly to "treat when bit is in mouth" and she started doing giraffe mode anyway. Going back to shaping the behaviour properly and building up lowering her head into the bridle, touching the bit with her nose, mouthing the bit, eventually putting the bit in her mouth herself made a huge difference. Will make it easier to spot which exact part of the process he has a problem with too, if that is perhaps things going near his eyes or his ears.

Thank you.

 

[Cortez]

Thank you. I’ll have a look and try honey

"Taking the bit" is a strange concept; no horse is going to enjoy having a bit in it's mouth and covering it in sugar (honey or molasses are sugar) isn't really anything but a con. I have never tricked a horse into opening it's mouth, they either learn to do this or not, it doesn't signify that the horse "likes" the bit and it's not something that I want horses to do.

Horses don't like going to work any more or less than we do, some of them don't want to and can be a*ses about it so we have to be trainers and make them. If everyone could realise that then horses lives - and their rider's - would be much easier. It would also make horses lives much better if we were more adept at knowing when tack doesn't fit or when vets needed to be consulted, or were much better riders.

ETA: I have had a couple of horses that were so terrified of having a bridle put on that they would throw themselves over (both from racing yards). It took a very long time, but both were eventually fine to bridle - one had ear plaques, one had been ear twitched - no sugar or treats were involved.