SusieT
Well-Known Member
x..
…….. . Most dogs, when they're distressed will turn to 'sleep'. …….. . Sleep shuts out all those influences which dogs don't enjoy.
Alec.
…….. - mammals who are in shock and sleeping are not healthy mammals.
I have seen a litter of dobes done, years ago. I agree the trauma was over quickly but it was still horrible. I also think it is worse now they have to go to the vets and it takes much longer, at least when it was done at home they were chilled right up until, when they go to the vets the bitch gets stressed, IMO, which transfers worry to the pups. I know they soon get over it but it is still horrible.
And really, it must hurt like hell!
There is nothing (other than the owners concern for money) to prevent a vet attending a home to amputate pups tails. Thank heavens it is now at least a qualified vet doing it, rather than joe bloggs just taking a pair of scissors or pen knife to a pup's tail and leaving it raw.
I'm not sure I subscribe to the safety mechanism explanation, all 3 of my newborns screamed like demons when they had the heel prick!
not exactly in the same league is it really?
foreskin torn off verses heel prick?
I know which one grown men would opt for given a choice between the 2
Tail-docking is a subject which generally splits all those with an interest in dogs, with few sitting on the fence, it seems! Well I'm one of those few, and have a foot in both camps. I too wonder how right it is to simply dock a puppy's tail because of simple vanity. I agree that many of the previously docked breeds were treated as they were through highly doubtful ethics as to the breed. Dobermans for instance were apparently docked to prevent a human assailant from having a handle to take hold of. OK, that's what I've been told, and it may be piffle. It would be a dubious justification if we've ever watched a Dobe at full tilt and working. Most would consider that the greatest threat came from the front end, and it would be unlikely that any 'assailant' would ever get to the rear end of a dog!
Most of those previously docked Dobes also, it seemed to me, had the tail removed in its entirety, which raises an interesting point. Previously someone raised the point that a dog's tail is an extension of the animal's spine, and so it is. I believe that the shorter the docked tail so the more invasive the operation.
We don't, for obvious reasons, dock the tails of any hounds, and that's because those which have been bred for coursing, need their tail to achieve balance whilst they work. Terriers? As previously, docking achieves nothing, in my view, and it's strange how the Border Terrier has a relatively short tail anyway!
The gun dog breeds? One of my Ag Landlords has an undocked GSP and to my eye there is precious little difference between his dog and an English Pointer. Perhaps the GSP has a slightly heavier frame, head and ears, perhaps a little more 'course' too, but that would be about it. The dog in question really suits a full tail.
The question, for me anyway, arises with the spaniel breeds, and I'd maintain that docking is vital. Not just because of any apparent 'appearance', or for that matter the fact that many undocked dogs lead lives of torment with the tips of tails being injured, but more because docked and hard-going dogs are able, despite contradiction, to express themselves and move in a more stylish, efficient and energy saving manner, than their brothers who weren't relieved of a short portion of their tails, at birth. No spaniel with a full tail can be as efficient or move and work, as a dog which has been correctly docked.
Cropped ears? Yeah, I suppose that the look they part, though the practice serves no purpose, especially with the American Bull breeds which only seem to have their ugliness accentuated with no ears!
Alec.
I don't see how a docked spaniel is more efficient/moves better or expresses itself better
Some can appreciate the differences, whilst others can't. I have neither understanding nor appreciation of ballet, so I have some sympathy with you in that you fail to see. I can assure you that the differences are very real.
Alec.
……..
Had it done due to happy tail getting to the point the scar tissue could be pulled apart by my hands and continuously was reopening and re bandaged.
Have to say has put me off ever having a spaniel with a full tail.
Only partly tongue in cheek here - maybe we should be breeding dogs with more suitable tails?!
Funny you should say that bc, I was just wondering about the Old English Sheepdog ( aka Bob Tails) that used to be docked for generations. Then later on, apparently some pups were actually born without tails and their litter mates with tails and I understand this can still be the case in some litters. But how can this be? Is this fact? Any OES people on the forum?
I know we have bred both good and bad physical characteristics into and out of many breeds of dog over the generations, so could, no doubt, breed the Springer Spaniel with a shorter tail, using selective breeding and continually breeding shorter tailed Spaniels to shorter tailed Spaniels until we had created the desired length tail. But in the case of the OES how could a physical amputation like tail docking be inherited through a breed line? Does anyone have any answers?
Funny you should say that bc, I was just wondering about the Old English Sheepdog ( aka Bob Tails) that used to be docked for generations. Then later on, apparently some pups were actually born without tails and their litter mates with tails and I understand this can still be the case in some litters. But how can this be? Is this fact? Any OES people on the forum?
I know we have bred both good and bad physical characteristics into and out of many breeds of dog over the generations, so could, no doubt, breed the Springer Spaniel with a shorter tail, using selective breeding and continually breeding shorter tailed Spaniels to shorter tailed Spaniels until we had created the desired length tail. But in the case of the OES how could a physical amputation like tail docking be inherited through a breed line? Does anyone have any answers?
Quick response as I'm at work but Bruce Cattanach's bobtailed boxers make for an interesting read
http://bobtailboxers.com/the-cross-corgi-ex-boxer
.. regard anyone happy to cut bits off puppies without anaesthetic as a first class barsteward.
Quick response as I'm at work but Bruce Cattanach's bobtailed boxers make for an interesting read
http://bobtailboxers.com/the-cross-corgi-ex-boxer
What you can achieve through selected breeding can be limited by what the range already is in the population so you might not get a tail short enough. Unless a random mutation occurs (ie bobtail as in OES) which you can then breed on.