Tail Ribbons...

[Hunb88]

Hi All,

So I took my 3 year old filly to her first show yesterday (only had her 5 weeks). She is skewbald and took well over 3 hours to prep her (2 hours just to plait as she was previously hogged and her mane is so thick. Hopefully a few weeks, i can thin it out a bit). She behaved very well, it was a charity show and we entered 2 classes, youngstock and novice. I am really chuffed with her as it is such a big thing for a young horse, but she hand grazed happily. She trotted when asked (one minor blip, but that's ok and she carried on afterwards). She didn't bat an eyelid when the horse in front trotted off, or coming away from the other horses, so really pleased with her, especially as it was so hot. The classes we entered were first thing in the morning, so beat the worst of the heat!

Anyway, I put a green ribbon in her tail, hoping people would know what it means and give her some space. The first line up, she was fine. There was a colt in the class who is 1.5 years old(no ribbon or badge) and my filly is currently in season, so stayed well clear! The sensible thing to do, which you should anyway with any horse, right?

So to my pleasant surprise, we got pulled in 3rd the colt was 2nd and i said to the judge i was going to pull further away because she is in season. Everyone heard me. The next horse (filly) who got pulled in 4th and literally pulled in right next to me, probably around 1/2 m (not more than that) and my horse unfortunatley kicked her horse. I was in shock, i didn't really see it happen as it happened so quickly and was keeping an eye on the colt. I didn't expect her to come so close, there were only 5 in the ring! Anyway, i apologised and the judge (who was very rude and not really a judge) told us to leave. I would be upset if it was my horse, but i would also acknowledge that i pulled in far too close. The owner seemed oblivious to it all. Needless to say, we didn't do the next class and came home.

I am not upset about losing the rosette, it was more for experience than anything, and she surprised me with how chilled she was. I am upset because of how something which should have been celebrated ended so badly. I had people tell me it was my fault, but i can't help to think it is. It seems to be that people don't seem to know about tail ribbons or pay any attention? Is that normal?

Needless to say, i will be putting a green and red one in next time....along with a great big neon sign! My horse isn't mareish at all, my old girl was (she always had a red ribbon in, but she never did anything, it was more of a precaution).

The experience has put me off slightly, we have another small show planned for Saturday and now i am debating on if i should go or not.

 

[Shay]

What makes you think the colt was entire? They are normally gelded before 12 months. There is no reason for a gelded colt to bother your mare.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience - but it was, you say, only a small local show for charity. So I wouldn't expect the standards of an affilliated show ring - or other experienced competitors. Whether you feel the judge was rude or not, or a judge or not, they overwhelming likelihood is that they were a volunteer without whose time you would not have had a show and the Charity would not have had a fund raiser.

Perhaps go to the next show and just be really aware of other competitors. Don't expect your obviously high standards of them. If you feel someone has pulled in too close to you either move yourself a bit or ask them politely to give you a little more space. The only things you can control are you and (mostly!) your horse.

And to come back to the tail ribbons question - this reads like it was a youngstock / in hand class? Few shows allow horses under 4 to compete so it must have been a speciliast class. A green ribbon would therefore mean very little. By definition everything in the ring would be green! Outside of Hunting (and sometimes not even then!) in my expereince people don't really pay much attention. They are over used. As you yourself have done with a red ribbon on your old mare who never did anything. Worth a try if it makes you feel better but it doesn't shift the responsibility for making sure your horse is safe and out of everyone else's way. Sorry.

 

[milliepops]

not a showing expert by any means but I would not have been surprised if I was asked to leave, if a horse of mine had kicked another in *any* circumstances.

Just because you put a ribbon on your horse doesn't mean that you are not responsible for keeping it under control and keeping other people safe. If it was only a green ribbon then it would be telling people what they already know, a young horse is green

Sorry this put a damper on your day but it sounds like your horse had a good day out prior to that, hopefully the next time you come home with a frilly

 

[Hunb88]

He wa

What makes you think the colt was entire? They are normally gelded before 12 months. There is no reason for a gelded colt to bother your mare.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience - but it was, you say, only a small local show for charity. So I wouldn't expect the standards of an affilliated show ring - or other experienced competitors. Whether you feel the judge was rude or not, or a judge or not, they overwhelming likelihood is that they were a volunteer without whose time you would not have had a show and the Charity would not have had a fund raiser.

Perhaps go to the next show and just be really aware of other competitors. Don't expect your obviously high standards of them. If you feel someone has pulled in too close to you either move yourself a bit or ask them politely to give you a little more space. The only things you can control are you and (mostly!) your horse.

And to come back to the tail ribbons question - this reads like it was a youngstock / in hand class? Few shows allow horses under 4 to compete so it must have been a speciliast class. A green ribbon would therefore mean very little. By definition everything in the ring would be green! Outside of Hunting (and sometimes not even then!) in my expereince people don't really pay much attention. They are over used. As you yourself have done with a red ribbon on your old mare who never did anything. Worth a try if it makes you feel better but it doesn't shift the responsibility for making sure your horse is safe and out of everyone else's way. Sorry.

He was definitely entire, believe me. I did have a good look, and you had to be blind if you couldn't tell it was a colt. It was a youngstock class, quite a few shows have them for 4 and under, but surely you see a green ribbon (as there were other classes going on) you can't generally tell how old a horse is, or you don't know if it is their first show or not, so it is common courtesy to others really. Maybe i just need to stop being conscientious to other people all the time, as it doesn't really seem to get me anywhere.

My old mare used to compete at county level and a few local shows. I did have a comment once because someones daughter pulled in behind mine and her mum said 'great, she is behind one that kicks' and someone else commented 'at least i warn people', but maybe i just need to not bother...My old mare did kick out once hacking, hence why i put a red ribbon in her tail...but she didn't do anything out and about, but felt it was my responsibility to warn people that she could. Who knows what horses do when another one comes up behind or next to them as yesterday was a true example.

 

[Hunb88]

not a showing expert by any means but I would not have been surprised if I was asked to leave, if a horse of mine had kicked another in *any* circumstances.

Just because you put a ribbon on your horse doesn't mean that you are not responsible for keeping it under control and keeping other people safe. If it was only a green ribbon then it would be telling people what they already know, a young horse is green

Sorry this put a damper on your day but it sounds like your horse had a good day out prior to that, hopefully the next time you come home with a frilly

I wasn't surprised i was asked to leave, that isn't what i am saying at all. It doesn't matter if i get a frilly or not, i just think people need to have more common sense and awareness. I agree, i do also after yesterday, but as previously said, i was more concerned about the colt. I know a colt when i see one...believe it or not...i am not a complete muppet

 

[risky business]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience showing, unfortunately these things happen as you say it's all in the name of experience.

I will say however that I had a horse that kicked, like a ninja he was so I put huge red ribbons in his tail. I always warmed up in a separate arena and waited away from the ring, even still people seemed to seek me out wherever I was and walk behind him even with me shouting out that he kicked!

I do honestly think some people are just oblivious to things. I always give other horses space ribbon or not as you never know but not everyone thinks the same.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

How do you know the colt was 1.5 years old?

Colts 2yo and over must be bitted and wear a stallion/colt badge. Yearlings do not.

In showing no one puts ribbons in their horses tail as you are admitting your horse is an eejit - even if it's not!

I show a stallion - bitted and badged - and it is unbelievable how many people park right beside him, try to walk right in front or behind him. They are oblivious. It doesn't help that he is so well behaved most people think he is a gelding!

Go to the show again at the weekend. If someone parks right next to you either ask them to move over a bit to give yourself space or back up out of the line and stand behind it - if the judge asks why just say you have a young horse on her first few outings and dont want her upset or kicked by others. No judge will penalise you for that. Don't mention that she has kickdd before. It was a one off.

 

[Hunb88]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience showing, unfortunately these things happen as you say it's all in the name of experience.

I will say however that I had a horse that kicked, like a ninja he was so I put huge red ribbons in his tail. I always warmed up in a separate arena and waited away from the ring, even still people seemed to seek me out wherever I was and walk behind him even with me shouting out that he kicked!

I do honestly think some people are just oblivious to things. I always give other horses space ribbon or not as you never know but not everyone thinks the same.

People are oblivious. If i had pulled next to her, fair enough but she pulled in after me and had plenty of room to give us space. Hopefully she has learnt something from it, and her horse is OK. Horses are unpredictable, i try and give other horses as much space as possible, just a shame not everyone thinks the same.

 

[milliepops]

I wasn't surprised i was asked to leave, that isn't what i am saying at all. It doesn't matter if i get a frilly or not, i just think people need to have more common sense and awareness. I agree, i do also after yesterday, but as previously said, i was more concerned about the colt. I know a colt when i see one...believe it or not...i am not a complete muppet

I am not doubting the colt nor calling you a muppet
But my feeling is that if a horse kicks out then it is almost always that handler's issue. I have one that kicks in company and while I do ask other people to give us space I know it is my problem, and my job to create space for her even if someone comes too close for comfort.

Yes, in an ideal world other people would give her space, but the reality is that sometimes they don't notice, forget or simply don't realise that what they think is a safe distance really isn't.

 

[Hunb88]

How do you know the colt was 1.5 years old?

Colts 2yo and over must be bitted and wear a stallion/colt badge. Yearlings do not.

In showing no one puts ribbons in their horses tail as you are admitting your horse is an eejit - even if it's not!

I show a stallion - bitted and badged - and it is unbelievable how many people park right beside him, try to walk right in front or behind him. They are oblivious. It doesn't help that he is so well behaved most people think he is a gelding!

Go to the show again at the weekend. If someone parks right next to you either ask them to move over a bit to give yourself space or back up out of the line and stand behind it - if the judge asks why just say you have a young horse on her first few outings and dont want her upset or kicked by others. No judge will penalise you for that. Don't mention that she has kickdd before. It was a one off.

A friend knows the girl and the horse. Personally, i think if it is entire, common courtesy would be to wear something, but then maybe i am too conscientious about these things. Thanks for the advise, i will be doing that in the future for sure. My old mare actually won at county level, even with a red ribbon in...and actually won against someone else with higher scores for her manners!

 

[Hack4fun]

So sad. But please don't let it put you off showing.

 

[TWMD]

Please don't let this put you off, some people can be idiots! I was out yesterday warming up for a dressage test, took myself off to a quiet corner of the field well away from the other competitors and was riding shoulder-in next to the hedgerow. Another competitor came cantering over, squeezed between my horse and the hedgerow then cut right across in front of us so I had to pull my horse up sharply....and then shouted at me "don't ride behind him you'll get kicked you idiot". I was flabbergasted!

I would say if you have a horse that you don't want crowded, then the onus is on you to make sure no-one does crowd her, which may involve (politely) shouting at people to stay away. I do tend to avoid horses with tail ribbons, I don't want my horse kicked so I err on the side of caution, but then again I don't ride up close to a horse I don't know anyway! Just simple common sense which a lot of folks leave home without!

 

[ester]

this is where you need to be aware what everyone else is doing and move your horse out of they way. - you could have pulled forwards and circled round to be slightly behind the line up to give yours more space.

Also it isn't really fair to assume 'everyone heard me' when you don't know anything about your fellow competitors, and given that it seems the yearling colt was impeccably behaved (and by any rules did not need to be badged) I don't see your issue there.

 

[Hunb88]

Please don't let this put you off, some people can be idiots! I was out yesterday warming up for a dressage test, took myself off to a quiet corner of the field well away from the other competitors and was riding shoulder-in next to the hedgerow. Another competitor came cantering over, squeezed between my horse and the hedgerow then cut right across in front of us so I had to pull my horse up sharply....and then shouted at me "don't ride behind him you'll get kicked you idiot". I was flabbergasted!

I would say if you have a horse that you don't want crowded, then the onus is on you to make sure no-one does crowd her, which may involve (politely) shouting at people to stay away. I do tend to avoid horses with tail ribbons, I don't want my horse kicked so I err on the side of caution, but then again I don't ride up close to a horse I don't know anyway! Just simple common sense which a lot of folks leave home without!

Thank you. To be fair, it all happened extremely quickly, as soon as she pulled up next to her, so i didn't really have time to do anything about it or move my girl away (otherwise i would). The colt on the other side was, shall we say, 'standing to attention' and i don't want a foal, so that was my main concern and did pull in further away from him.

I have only had her 5 weeks, so still getting to know her, but i honestly didn't think she would do something like that. In the initial line up, everyone gave eachother plenty of space, so not sure why this other girl didn't do the same when the results were announced. I know she was upset about her horse, understandbly, but you think she would realise that she did actually come way too close, as quite a few other people (including the person running it) did also comment on. Just one of those things really. After losing my older horse last month, this is the first time i have been to a show since we competed at the VHS championships last year, so i just wanted to to be a good experience and i am finally enjoying horses again.

 

[Hunb88]

this is where you need to be aware what everyone else is doing and move your horse out of they way. - you could have pulled forwards and circled round to be slightly behind the line up to give yours more space.

Also it isn't really fair to assume 'everyone heard me' when you don't know anything about your fellow competitors, and given that it seems the yearling colt was impeccably behaved (and by any rules did not need to be badged) I don't see your issue there.

Sadly there was no time for me to do anything as it happened as soon as she pulled up, otherwise i would have moved out of her way. I don't want a foal, my mare is in season and he was standing to attention. Who knows what would have happened, and it would have been me that would have to pay the consequences. I was aware of it and kept a distance fine, but a bit of notice would have been nice just common courtesy really.

 

[Peter7917]

I don't get the obsession with the colt. Just because he is entire does not mean he is not under control.

 

[Hunb88]

I don't get the obsession with the colt. Just because he is entire does not mean he is not under control.

It isn't an obsession. Am i not entitled to an opinion? I clearly stated my mare was in season, it would have been irresponsible of me to not keep my distance. Especially where hormones are involved. I like to think i am a responsible owner...

 

[rabatsa]

Ribbons are over rated, over used and misunderstood. Watching the show jumping at a county show the very "knowledgeable" person in front of me was telling her friend that the horse jumping was for sale as it had a white ribbon in its tail. When it was pointed out that it was to denote a stallion she still believed it was for sale otherwise the ribbon would have been red.

 

[conniegirl]

your mare was in season, you do not know her well but you still took her to a show.
Yes the other person was too close, it happens in the show ring, I've had people practically clinging to my stirrup leather, or using my ponys bum as an emergency brake, I've had youngstock inhand in classes where giving space really wasnt an option due to ring size and entry numbers. It is up to you to train your horse to accept it or to somehow create space, like standing further back than those beside you so that even if she does kick out it cannot land on anything. Mares in season can be hormonal without being mareish and can be more inclined to kick out, that is down to you to manage and you should have been keeping an eye on the horse behind you, by your own admission the colt was a sufficient distance away

the colt may have had hits bits out but it doesnt sound like he was a raging loony trying to constantly get at your mare, stallion or colt handlers generally have very good control of thier animals and mares and stallions are regularly shown in the same class as each other with no upset at all.
Colts do not need to be bitted or wear badges until 2 yrs old, some societies they don't need to until they are 3.

Colts are not monsters and I do think you are over-dramatising the level of risk, no stallion handler in the right mind is going to just let thier stallion serve your mare and if there was an accident (if the stallion or your mare got loose) then it does not have to get any further than an injection from the vet (horse equivalent to the morning after pill). If the stallion was at fault then it would be the stallion owner to pay the vet bill.


Green ribbons are not used in the show ring, it is safe to assume that everything in a youngstock or novice class is green. Red is only used for serious kickers as it shows that your animal lacks manners.

as for the show this weekend, If your mare is no longer in season I would take her, if she is still in season I would leave her at home.

 

[Hunb88]

your mare was in season, you do not know her well but you still took her to a show.
Yes the other person was too close, it happens in the show ring, I've had people practically clinging to my stirrup leather, or using my ponys bum as an emergency brake, I've had youngstock inhand in classes where giving space really wasnt an option due to ring size and entry numbers. It is up to you to train your horse to accept it or to somehow create space, like standing further back than those beside you so that even if she does kick out it cannot land on anything. Mares in season can be hormonal without being mareish and can be more inclined to kick out, that is down to you to manage and you should have been keeping an eye on the horse behind you, by your own admission the colt was a sufficient distance away

the colt may have had hits bits out but it doesnt sound like he was a raging loony trying to constantly get at your mare, stallion or colt handlers generally have very good control of thier animals and mares and stallions are regularly shown in the same class as each other with no upset at all.
Colts do not need to be bitted or wear badges until 2 yrs old, some societies they don't need to until they are 3.

Colts are not monsters and I do think you are over-dramatising the level of risk, no stallion handler in the right mind is going to just let thier stallion serve your mare and if there was an accident (if the stallion or your mare got loose) then it does not have to get any further than an injection from the vet (horse equivalent to the morning after pill). If the stallion was at fault then it would be the stallion owner to pay the vet bill.


Green ribbons are not used in the show ring, it is safe to assume that everything in a youngstock or novice class is green. Red is only used for serious kickers as it shows that your animal lacks manners.

as for the show this weekend, If your mare is no longer in season I would take her, if she is still in season I would leave her at home.

WOW! slapped wrist for me...thank you.As if i am not beating myself up over it already, so should the other owner. Personally i don't feel that i should have to keep my mare at home because she is in season... This was her second season with me, so not like her first and i haven't seen her in season before.

I am not saying colts are monsters and i don't see how a horse that kicks lacks manners! Some horses just like their space...just like people!The majority of people seem to have something against mares and think mares are monsters. That is life and that is the horse world. We are all entitled to our opinion. Isn't the entire point of having horses, to enjoy them? I am going to take her on saturday and you know what...i am going to well enjoy it. It has been a long time since battling health issues with my previous horse, that i have actually been able to enjoy getting out and about.

The whole point of getting her out is experience and part of her training. Clearly i have learnt my lesson, sadly some people do not. There are a lot of things i see and don't agree with, but over the years i have learnt to keep my mouth shut.

 

[milliepops]

i don't see how a horse that kicks lacks manners!

really?
To me it is kind of the epitome of bad manners.

I totally understand her desire for personal space, as I said i have one that will kick if someone gets too close - she is a bit of an unbalanced horse mentally and I know I have to manage her so no one is put in the position where they might get hurt. Luckily for you yours is young and you should be able to teach her not to do it.

 

[LegOn]

So sorry to hear you had a bad experience showing your it sounds like, that incident aside, - you had a lovely day out with your horse! And you both learned loads!

I'm a complete showing novice and I've never done inhand but I'll just add this - expect everyone to do anything, at every possible moment!! Someone once said to me that showing is about boasting how good your horse is above everyone elses so the winner is usually the person who is gonna boast the best!!

I think my point is really that everyone is just looking out for themselves - so thats all really you can do aswell!

I dont know the rules of tail ribbons in showing but in my limited experience I would say they dont apply - the whole point of showing classes is to judge horses on their manners and temperament & I know kicking isnt the worst thing a horse can do but in showing, it counts! In showjumping, only reason anyone cares about a red tail ribbon is so they dont get kicked but as long as your horse can jump, doesnt matter!!

Try to take the best things from the day & go out again just making sure you look after yourself & your horse first & expect all those around you to do anything at any possible moment!!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I think a lot people forget that mares are entire too and are just as hormonal, if not more so than stallions and colts. People with Boys tend to be far more wary and conscious of what is going on around them yet people with mares just pootle about expecting the world to be rosey and if anything goes wrong it is ALWAYS the stallions fault not the mares.

Not necessarily you OP but a lot of people in general would rather blame the obvious stallion than their mare.

 

[conniegirl]

WOW! slapped wrist for me...thank you.As if i am not beating myself up over it already, so should the other owner. Personally i don't feel that i should have to keep my mare at home because she is in season... This was her second season with me, so not like her first and i haven't seen her in season before.

I have nothing against mares (in season or not) or stallions in the show ring at all, I do however think you were a fool to take her to her first show whilst in season, I would not be taking a mare in season out for her first ever show. You do not know how she will react at a show when not in season, no need to add the extra touchieness of a season to an already potentially fraught situation.

i don't see how a horse that kicks lacks manners!

Kicking is the epitome of bad manners, horses can like thier personal space all they want but kicking is not on, my current lad hates anything in his personal space however he knows better than to do anything about it when being handled or ridden, he stews and he winds himself into a little frustrated ball of energy but he wouldnt dare kick out.

 

[ester]

Sadly there was no time for me to do anything as it happened as soon as she pulled up, otherwise i would have moved out of her way. I don't want a foal, my mare is in season and he was standing to attention. Who knows what would have happened, and it would have been me that would have to pay the consequences. I was aware of it and kept a distance fine, but a bit of notice would have been nice just common courtesy really.

you watch them as they are pulling up, had you not been so obsessed about the non-problematic colt (you don't want a foal, that is epic catastrophising!) you might have been able to read the scenario better so that your horse didn't kick.

Frankly I'd be grateful that kick didn't do any damage.

 

[be positive]

you watch them as they are pulling up, had you not been so obsessed about the non-problematic colt (you don't want a foal, that is epic catastrophising!) you might have been able to read the scenario better so that your horse didn't kick.

Frankly I'd be grateful that kick didn't do any damage.

I would now be working on her manners at home, kicking is unacceptable whether in season or not, making excuses for a kicker is the wrong approach, if you want her to grow into a useful riding horse she needs to learn before it becomes ingrained and she does some serious damage, putting a ribbon on the tail does not guarantee she never gets someone coming too close, the next kick may make contact with a person rather than another horse so crack down on her behaviour now rather than looking to blame others who may or may not have been in the wrong.

 

[Ceifer]

I think a lot people forget that mares are entire too and are just as hormonal, if not more so than stallions and colts. People with Boys tend to be far more wary and conscious of what is going on around them yet people with mares just pootle about expecting the world to be rosey and if anything goes wrong it is ALWAYS the stallions fault not the mares.

Not necessarily you OP but a lot of people in general would rather blame the obvious stallion than their mare.

This 100%
I’ve dealt with numerous stallions and never had a problem with any as they are handled sensitively and sensibly.
I’ve seen more problems with mares than I have stallions

 

[Leandy]

I agree that if you particularly didn't want your filly crowded then you need to look out for it being about to happen and just politely ask whoever seems to be getting too close to back off. That said, I do think others have a responsibility not to get within kicking distance in the first place. My view is that if you get within kicking distance of another horse then you cannot complain if you get kicked. It is not rocket science and it never ceases to amaze me how blase about this many people are! Unless a horse actually reversed into mine and kicked it, I would be cross with myself if my horse got kicked because I put it in danger by getting too close to another. It seems I'm in the minority in this view however and most people prefer to blame the kicker. Horses shouldn't kick of course, but it does happen and it is relatively easy not to get in the situation of being kicked in the first place. If someone pulls their youngster in within kicking distance of yours which is already standing in line when there is plenty of room for them not to do this, it is their fault for getting too close IMHO. If I were the judge I would take that view also, particularly in a youngstock class.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

When you enter unaffiliated classes, particularly at small shows it is likely that you will be in the ring with first time showers, handlers as well as horses. If you make sure that you are a sensible/safe distance from the horse placed before you, you then need to keep an eye out for the next placed one, in case you need to ask them to give you room or to move your horse, so that you can circle round and stand slightly back.
It is one of the things that I find fascinating that handlers often have very little idea of ringcraft.

 

[greenbean10]

I have to say I agree with @Leandy. I don't know about showing but in a showjumping warm up if I saw a horse with a red ribbon in it's tail I would avoid it at all costs! And if I did get too close and it kicked my horse I would absolutely blame myself as opposed to the kicker - they have given me sufficient warning with the red ribbon.

As I said, I don't know about showing or whether a green ribbon would be enough to stop someone getting too close. But I do wonder how this thread would look if you had been the one who had got too close to the young horse placed before you and it was your horse who got kicked. Would everyone be saying 'don't worry it's the kickers fault', or would they be saying 'well you have a responsibility for your own horse and you got too close to the one in front in a young horse class...' - that would absolutely be my view!

I read your post thinking you hadn't really done anything wrong at all!