Tail Ribbons...

[Dollbird]

I have a simple rule. It's my responsibility to keep my horse safe. Keep a safe distance from others. However well trained, an animal is, there is always the chance of a misdemeanor. Never understand why an owner would encroach on an unknown animals personal space. OP, don't be put off, just remember for everyone who is experienced and is a true horse person, there are loads of numpties. Keep alert and don't be afraid to say " please give my horse space".

 

[splashgirl45]

i did quite a bit of showing with my filly and she never showed when she was in season so i never knew. i have never heard of anyone putting different coloured ribbons on tails in youngstock classes. red ribbon on ridden horses but i wouldnt have known what a green ribbon means . if yours is very silly when in season it would be best not to take her to a show and maybe work on her getting used to other horses being close as when you ride her you dont want to be worrying all the time that she will kick....

 

[catroo]

Personally I don’t bother with ribbons and it’s not something you often see in showing. I don’t plan on being close enough to the back legs of a horse/pony for it to make a difference.

I mainly show colts and stallions, you quite quickly realise that many have no clue whatsoever as to safe practices. I would, in general, trust the handler of a stallion/colt far more than the handler of a mare/gelding.

OP, plenty of positives to take from the day and a couple of learnings. No they shouldn’t have been that close but you also need to be very aware of all possible pinch points. When I’m leading a potentially reactive horse I come into line leaving a big gap like you did, but then make sure I use my body position to encourage the next person to give room, alternatively I leave a large enough gap that I have room to move into should the next in-line not get the message. One of my stallions isnt keen on clapping so I always make sure I exit the ring last regarding of my placing so I know there’s nothing behind him if he’s wound up.

Regarding next show, I wouldn’t take her if still in season this time now that you know how she may react in similar situations. Set yourself up for success to make the next outing as smooth as possible

 

[honetpot]

It isn't an obsession. Am i not entitled to an opinion? I clearly stated my mare was in season, it would have been irresponsible of me to not keep my distance. Especially where hormones are involved. I like to think i am a responsible owner...

I have to agree with this, there are lots of people at local level who show colts especially welsh in just a white head collar and it it’s fidgety and calling I would colt or gelding I would always be cautious.
Not everyone understands about ribbons and if you could not have told the next in the line ups handler I would have circled and dropped behind her behind her like I was forming another line, but it’s easy to be wise after the event.
I have been to some shows where entires seemed to be allowed to get away with anything rearing, swinging their quarters etc and the rest of the class just have to put up with it. Which is fine if there is space but it's very stressful
She’s a young mare and was stressed and if you have only five weeks she did well to cope as she did. She just needs more practice perhaps at home before you next go out.
When I lining up I watch everything, TBH I am not that worried about the horse or pony being kicked its being kicked myself if it misses its intended target.

 

[Hunb88]

Thank you all but she wasn’t stressed at all and wasn’t even silly in the slightest. She is one of the most chilled out horses I have ever met, and is nowhere near as highly strung as my old mare was. If she was stressed and silly, I wouldn’t have risked taking her.

She was extremely calm and didn’t bat an eyelid at anything there and was happy just grazing. That doesn’t sound like a stressed horse to me. She was very calm in the ring, she had one minor jump but that was the corner where spectators were and someone was taking photos (so possibly the cause) and after that she just carried on absolutely fine, so I’m not entirely sure why people are assuming she was stressed or silly, I don’t think I implied that in my original post.

I have been around horses for more years than I can count and experienced with all types, including stallions but we all make mistakes.

My point is that we were both at fault, I have learnt my lesson and acknowledged that. I had been competing for years with my other mare, and never encountered an issue like this. The other handler just didn’t seem to acknowledge that she was also in the wrong, and that to me is worrying. Who is to say her filly wasn’t in season also? The secretary also said she did come in too close and that if she was judging, we would have both been asked to leave. I do think the judge was very rude and could have handled it slightly better, and before anyone jumps on me, I don’t mean by not asking me to leave, I just think not speaking to me like I was something she stood on and maybe talking to the other handler about distance.

 

[Hunb88]

Also just to add that she isn’t a dominant mare either. My last one was, so I know what I’m talking about and she definitely isn’t!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’m not entirely sure why people are assuming she was stressed or silly, I don’t think I implied that in my original post.

If she wasn’t stressed or silly, but she still kicked out, then that is actually more worrying than if she was lit up.

I’d steer clear of further in hand shows with her for other people’s sake. You will have more control once she’s under saddle. I cannot abide a kicker. I know someone who was very badly injured in the ring during an in hand class, the offender had previous, it was aiming at another pony and not the handler, but it got her nonetheless.

 

[conniegirl]

If she wasn’t stressed or silly, but she still kicked out, then that is actually more worrying than if she was lit up.

I’d steer clear of further in hand shows with her for other people’s sake. You will have more control once she’s under saddle. I cannot abide a kicker. I know someone who was very badly injured in the ring during an in hand class, the offender had previous, it was aiming at another pony and not the the handler, but it got her nonetheless.

This absolutely, i know someone who lost her leg due to a kicker. She was kicked whilst riding at a show and it mangled her leg, at the show we thought we were dealing with an open fracture of the femur. Air ambulance etc was called but she still ended up losing it.

The fact the mare wasnt stressed etc but still kicked is very worrying and i would not be taking her in public until i had taught her it was unacceptable.

 

[greenbean10]

If she wasn’t stressed or silly, but she still kicked out, then that is actually more worrying than if she was lit up.

I’d steer clear of further in hand shows with her for other people’s sake. You will have more control once she’s under saddle. I cannot abide a kicker. I know someone who was very badly injured in the ring during an in hand class, the offender had previous, it was aiming at another pony and not the handler, but it got her nonetheless.

How will you have more control over a kicker when you are in the saddle? A girl at my yard has a horse who kicks other horses. She puts a red ribbon on his tail and in general people stay very clear in the showjumping warm up. But if a horse comes right up his backside and he kicks them, is that really his riders fault for not having enough control over him - and how would she have been able to stop that?

This isn't a dig, I am genuinely interested!

 

[be positive]

If she wasn’t stressed or silly, but she still kicked out, then that is actually more worrying than if she was lit up.

I’d steer clear of further in hand shows with her for other people’s sake. You will have more control once she’s under saddle. I cannot abide a kicker. I know someone who was very badly injured in the ring during an in hand class, the offender had previous, it was aiming at another pony and not the handler, but it got her nonetheless.

I agree and think the main point has been missed, this young horse kicked another for no reason other than it got a bit close, you seem to accept that it is part of normal behaviour and not something that needs to be dealt with before it becomes habitual.
I have taken many horses out to their first shows, usually ridden, and have never needed to consider them kicking if another comes close, which often happens, they just would never think about kicking even if crowded by others, in a line up or on the go round when at times others get extremely close.

 

[Hunb88]

I agree and think the main point has been missed, this young horse kicked another for no reason other than it got a bit close, you seem to accept that it is part of normal behaviour and not something that needs to be dealt with before it becomes habitual.
I have taken many horses out to their first shows, usually ridden, and have never needed to consider them kicking if another comes close, which often happens, they just would never think about kicking even if crowded by others, in a line up or on the go round when at times others get extremely close.

A lot of people on this forum seem to jump to conclusions and assume things! She has never kicked in the time that I have had her or showed any signs of kicking me or another horse. She was previously turned out with other horses and the owner said she didn’t kick out, so this is the first time I have seen this.

This is the last thing I have to say on this and I won’t be coming back to this forum to read or post again.

I will be working with my 3 year old who some people seem to have painted as a complete bitch...which she isn’t and I will be showing her in hand and doing things with her to get her out and about and she will have a red ribbon in her tail!

I will be working on her training to address the issue.

When my 20 year old mare was put to sleep a few weeks ago, I was very close to giving up horse altogether because the horse world can be such a nasty place that I didn’t want a part in it any longer.

Most of you seem to feel you are perfect and have perfect horses, they are animals and not machines!

Goodbye!

 

[bonny]

Don’t be so sensitive, no one has said anything they shouldn’t but if you really want to flounce then good luck with your young horse and goodbye !

 

[greenbean10]

A lot of people on this forum seem to jump to conclusions and assume things! She has never kicked in the time that I have had her or showed any signs of kicking me or another horse. She was previously turned out with other horses and the owner said she didn’t kick out, so this is the first time I have seen this.

This is the last thing I have to say on this and I won’t be coming back to this forum to read or post again.

I will be working with my 3 year old who some people seem to have painted as a complete bitch...which she isn’t and I will be showing her in hand and doing things with her to get her out and about and she will have a red ribbon in her tail!

I will be working on her training to address the issue.

When my 20 year old mare was put to sleep a few weeks ago, I was very close to giving up horse altogether because the horse world can be such a nasty place that I didn’t want a part in it any longer.

Most of you seem to feel you are perfect and have perfect horses, they are animals and not machines!

Goodbye!

Sorry to read this, I think a lot of people have been very unfair. You had absolutely no reason to think your horse would kick and someone got too close to you and she did. You didn't have time to do anything about it and people are telling you not to take her to any more in hand shoes which seems ridiculously drastic, as apart from the kick (which wasn't your fault and could have been avoided) it seems she behaved well.

 

[milliepops]

How will you have more control over a kicker when you are in the saddle? A girl at my yard has a horse who kicks other horses. She puts a red ribbon on his tail and in general people stay very clear in the showjumping warm up. But if a horse comes right up his backside and he kicks them, is that really his riders fault for not having enough control over him - and how would she have been able to stop that?

This isn't a dig, I am genuinely interested!

JMHO
I find I am in greater control of the horse - which way the hindlegs are pointing, where its body is angled to and what it's paying attention to, when I am in the saddle. When they are in hand you have one point of control really, which is via its head. From the saddle you can use your legs and body to influence the hind legs more easily.

re is it the owner's fault -
I think, yes, always. They might not have caused it, clearly, and it won't have been deliberate. but the owner of a kicking horse should always take responsibility for its actions. In the same way that the owner of a dog that bites someone should always accept responsibility for their animal.

 

[conniegirl]

How will you have more control over a kicker when you are in the saddle? A girl at my yard has a horse who kicks other horses. She puts a red ribbon on his tail and in general people stay very clear in the showjumping warm up. But if a horse comes right up his backside and he kicks them, is that really his riders fault for not having enough control over him - and how would she have been able to stop that?

This isn't a dig, I am genuinely interested!

It is the fault of the rider of the kicker for not teaching the horse that it is not acceptable to kick.
Manners are a very important part of showing and a horse who kicks has a serious lack of manners.

As a rider you can feel the horse preparing for a kick and then do something about it much easier and quicker than someone on the ground.
For example the horses back comes up, you boot it forward/ circle it/force it to have to think about something else or just give it a smack depending on the horse.

Sorry to read this, I think a lot of people have been very unfair. You had absolutely no reason to think your horse would kick and someone got too close to you and she did. You didn't have time to do anything about it and people are telling you not to take her to any more in hand shoes which seems ridiculously drastic, as apart from the kick (which wasn't your fault and could have been avoided) it seems she behaved well.

No one is saying dont show her, what we are saying is that she had a fundamental flaw in her training and that it should be fixed before showing her again. Often in inhand classes you get children handling horses/ponies, children get too close as quite often thier perception of distance and safe distance is not fully developed, had this horse contacted with a child the owner would find herself in a whole world of trouble.

Ive also pointed out that with young horses you need to set them up for success and that taking an in season mare to her first ever show was not setting them up for success.

If she were mine i would take her home, work on her manners, teach her that kicking was totally unacceptable, then take her to another show when she wasn’t in season and keep an eye on everyone.

 

[scats]

I’m sure the OP won’t want her horse to make kicking a habit and that she will address this issue. Although I absolutely do agree that a horse kicking out has bad manners, I think in this instance, with the horse being at it’s first show and potentially a little stressed/on guard (even if she didn’t appear this way outwardly) then the kick may well have been a bit of a ‘safety’ reaction from a green mare when she felt an unfamiliar horse coming too close to her in an unfamiliar environment.
I can rightly see why she was asked to leave the ring, and the other person may well have got too close, but unfortunately in the wonderful world of equine competition, people do all sorts of things that we wish they didn’t!

Now that you know your mare has reacted like this, just be mindful at future shows that you will need to ensure she is kept away from the others. It will mean you will have to be very aware of what is going on around you to remove her from any situations that could potentially occur. As she gets a little more confident out and about, I’m sure the kicking will stop.

 

[LaurenBay]

OP, I wouldn't let let this stop me from entering an in hand class again. I am going to go against the grain here. Yes you made a mistake by not being aware of your surroundings, its happened to all of at one point (well certainly to be it has!) but you learn from it and move on. If your Horse was fine up until this point and you are going to be more alert about those around you then I'd certainly go again. Keep your distance form all Horses, circle if you must and in the line up you can stand slightly back too. As soon as you stand check around you to see the next person walk into the line up, if you feel they will be too close then walk yours forwards and circle to back and stand slightly further back.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The person I posted about who was badly injured by a kick during an in hand class got a significant insurance payout from the kicker’s owner’s policy. I hope that the OP has a good insurance policy in place, but be aware that if you are considered to be reckless by taking out a horse who has previously been seen kicking in public, your insurance policy may not cover you.

 

[greenbean10]

It is the fault of the rider of the kicker for not teaching the horse that it is not acceptable to kick.

I understand if that's how people feel. But how would you go about teaching a mare who has never kicked before, is turned out with other horses and never kicked any of them, and has never shown any signs of kicking that it's not acceptable to kick before you take her to her first show? Is this genuinely something people do with their young horses? I'm not trying to be difficult I genuinely want to know the answer to these - I have never had a horse that kicked and would 100% blame myself if my horse got too close to a kicker (with a red ribbon) and we were kicked.

 

[milliepops]

I think - in the moment - the handler has to act decisively so that the horse understands it did something unacceptable. And then closely watch in handling outside of the show environment. In this case, she could also have considered simulating some showing scenarios/line ups so that they can practice standing close by other horses and again pay attention to how the horse is reacting so that it firstly learns that it's OK & safe to stand up next to other horses, and secondly if she thought of kicking, it could be dealt with in a suitable environment.

I think the thing that stands out from the OPs posts is they seem to think it's all the fault of the other handler (saying they should both be asked to leave, etc) and denying responsibility for what their horses did. Yes the other person could have given more space, but the fact is they were minding their own business and their horse got booted while the OP was stressing about the colt. it would be more gracious to accept that the kicking horse was in the wrong, even if it was placed under pressure.

 

[conniegirl]

I understand if that's how people feel. But how would you go about teaching a mare who has never kicked before, is turned out with other horses and never kicked any of them, and has never shown any signs of kicking that it's not acceptable to kick before you take her to her first show? Is this genuinely something people do with their young horses? I'm not trying to be difficult I genuinely want to know the answer to these - I have never had a horse that kicked and would 100% blame myself if my horse got too close to a kicker (with a red ribbon) and we were kicked.

That is how the law will view it, you have strict liability for your animals. so even if someone is too close, the fact your horse kicked makes it your fault.

whenever I have had youngstock as part of their inhand training (along side standing up properly, trotting up properly etc) I have tested them at home to see how they react with others round them inhand and with others getting far too close, if they react by kicking then they are taught very swiftly that kicking is not acceptable and they don't go out in public until it is sorted. Even if they only think about kicking then they are swiftly corrected.
Even ridden we have always gone to several clinics, worked in groups at home in the arena and checked that the horse will not kick before even thinking about an actual show.
I've also hired arenas at show centers to see how they react differently away from home, a lot can be said for taking youngstock out and leading it round whilst friends are using the arena. I'm also aware that mares can get twitchy about thier back ends when in season even if they show no other mareish tendencies so her first show would not have been whilst in season.

Had the above failed me and my horse kicked out at a show (thankfully never happened before) then the horse would have had an instant correction, I would have been massively apologetic to the person who was kicked, fully accepted that it was my horses problem, fully accepted I was being asked to leave the ring due to bad manners and then taken the horse home and worked on it.
I would not have blamed the other handler at all, no amount of ribbons in tails excuses bad behavior from horses.