Taking horse back off loan

[C24]

About 5 years ago I put my horse out on full loan to my livery yard owner. I’ve know her since I was a teenager so around 11 years now, we’re really good friends and I wouldn’t have let any one else have him. I put him on loan when I was pregnant, she’s been wonderful - if I ever wanted to go for a ride all I had to do was ask, I’m free to go up and see him whenever I want (but have largely kept my distance so as not to blur the lines of the full loan). She’s put a fair bit of work into him - including competing in BD, XC schooling, showing, fun rides, hunting, and various clinics.
Now she’s expecting her own baby and I’m finally in a position with time and finances to take him back. We discussed a few weeks ago about how I’d like to take him back after she’d mentioned possibly moving 2 hours away to live with her partner on his farm (which now doesn’t seem to be the case any more). I saw her tonight with every intention of having a chat about taking him back, but as I went to bring it up she mentioned having plans for him spanning across to after she’s had her baby in December.
I’ve never put a horse on loan before and have certainly never taken a horse back - I’m quite an anxious person about these things and I desperately don’t want to make things awkward. I don’t know how to address it after seeing how attached she is. I wouldn’t be moving him off of the yard as long as she’s running it - I love the yard and he’s usually such a hot head but he’s really relaxed there too.
How would you all bring it up? Is it easier to do it via text than face to face? I don’t want to just message her out of the blue with “hi, I want my horse back on x date”. What’s a reasonable amount of notice to give? I was hoping to have him back the start of October which is about 3-4 weeks away.

My partner suggested keeping him out on loan and saving for another horse but I’m so attached to my boy, I’ve had him since he was 2 and he was rescued from being slaughtered. The idea of selling him or buying another horse and staying on that yard (they have livery space currently) just makes me feel a bit sad. :/

 

[ihatework]

So hard. Out of respect for your friend this needs to be done face to face.
Be prepared not to thrash out the detail in the first conversation, give her time to absorb the news then come back at a later date to discuss further. Try and be flexible on the end date of the loan

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

She will probably change her mind about what she wants to do after she has the baby, anyway. If I were you, I would certainly have a face to face conversation about the situation. I would approach it from the aspect that her pregnancy is a good time for you to take him back into your care as she will be busy with the baby. Then I would assure her that if she wants to ride him sometimes, she will be very welcome.

 

[Goldenstar]

You need to do this with kindness and face to face .

 

[Lois Lame]

Text messages can be fraught with misinterpretation. Face to face is safer.

 

[ycbm]

I absolutely agree with face to face and kindly, but please don't forget she's had a free talented horse with no risk for the last 5 years.

The loan should end when she gives up riding before she has the baby, it's a natural break point.
.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Going against the grain I would say in a letter or email would be best. That way she can absorb the news in her own time and space and reflect before reacting.

If you’ve given no inclination up til now that you were wanting to take him back I’d be worried that starting up that conversation face to face might result in her reacting out of emotion and any attempt to soften the blow might go unnoticed.

Absolutely don’t save up to buy another horse just to avoid upsetting her though. Most people are well aware that a loan is just that, and as his owner you are well within your rights to take him back whenever you like, just be open and honest with her and I’m sure it’ll be fine.

 

[MrsMozartleto]

That's the thing about taking a horse on loan, the risk that it'll go back to its owner.

Echo the others, face to face is the way to go. Be flexible on the end date if you can.

 

[asmp]

Sorry if I’m missing something but can’t you share him? She certainly won’t have as much time with a newborn but it may be a win win situation with someone you know and trust, sharing time and bills?

 

[Red-1]

If I read it right, she mentioned moving 2 hours away and you already mentioned taking him back? That seems all very reasonable. It would be reasonable to take him back anyway, as your life circumstances have changed.

I would do it in person, or on the phone at least. Perhaps she could still have the occasional ride after the baby?

It is the nature of the loan after all, and the reason I won't have one.

 

[Pedantic]

Regardless, I wouldn't get another horse until she has had the baby.

 

[PatchyBabyHorse]

If you want him back, then make sure you take him back. Don’t feel guilty about it.

I once loaned out a horse due to my circumstances. To a friend, great home. They had a fantastic season eventing on him including FEI. I mentioned taking him back towards the end of winter and had a SERIOUS guilt trip from the mother. How they’d put work into him etc etc (he’d already done an old CCI* when they got him) So I felt pushed into saying they could have another season on him.
2 months later he was badly injured in their field. Despite the agreement saying they were responsible for any injuries or illness under their care, they took him to the vet hospital and left him there. They paid a token amount the first bill then cut me off. Didn’t ask about him, didn’t care. The mother turned quite abusive when asked to pay.
He spent 4 months in vet hospital and 4 months out on box rest and intensive rehab. You can imagine the bill. Then after all that he was PTS as it wouldn’t heal.

The biggest regret I have is not just taking him back. He was MY horse. They were loaning him. Yes they put work in but they also had free use of a talented horse. Plus they know what a loan is.

Don’t be guilt tripped! Take him back.

 

[Winters100]

I think it will be easier than you expect. She is a YO, so well aware of how a loan works, and she will be aware that if you were not going to want him back at some point you would have sold. Just be straightforward and kind. And I do think that asmp's idea of sharing is a good one if you will both have limited time.

 

[ycbm]

Be flexible on the end date if you can.

I have to disagree with this, sorry Mrs Mozart. When the loaner was going to move, the loan was going to end. The loaner knew at that stage that the owner wanted the horse back and accepted that. Then she decided not to move and has manipulated the owner by talking about her plans for the horse when she starts riding again after her baby is born.

There's a natural break point in this and it's when the loaner stops riding for several weeks due to heavy pregnancy and birth. I think that's the day the loan should end, and there a should be no negotiation about it, otherwise this loan is never going to end.
.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I think YCBM is right, there is a natural break point in this timeline.
Most of us know how scrambled your head can be after having a baby, the loaner cannot possibly know how she will feel afterwards, esp. if this is her first. It seems like a fair time to take your horse back. I hope it goes well x

 

[ihatework]

Yes the natural break is when loaner stops riding for baby. But OP mentions having horse back on 1st October which is what possibly triggered the comment on being flexible - less than a months notice seems a bit tight unless both parties agree, and 2-3 moths off birth is probably fine but if loaner was hoping to continue closer to the date it might be worth accommodating

 

[Trouper]

Mmmm - I think this is a bit more complicated than just taking back a loan as the OP clearly wants him to stay at the yard where he is happy and settled as long as the loaner is still running the yard. The immediate future still looks a bit uncertain to me as who knows how the YO will feel once the baby arrives and she may well even resurrect the idea of moving away to partner's farm? I certainly agree that face to face is the ONLY way to approach this - the history between them deserves it and nuances of tone are often lost in texts and letters.
For me, I would open the conversation by asking her for her plans to keep up all the good work on him during the latter stages of pregnancy and the first few months afterwards. If the answer to that is not clear then I would be suggesting that I stepped in to fill the gap and being fairly insistent that I did not want anyone else riding him in the interim.
After that, what about the idea of a share arrangement? The OP and loaner have clearly managed his care very well up to this point so it might have benefits for both parties when there are family commitments on both sides to juggle.
If both sides agree to formally end the loan, then staying on the current yard would be possible but if there were any acrimony about it then that would probably have to involve a yard move. which would be my least favoured option from the horse's point of view.

 

[MrsMozartleto]

I have to disagree with this, sorry Mrs Mozart. When the loaner was going to move, the loan was going to end. The loaner knew at that stage that the owner wanted the horse back and accepted that. Then she decided not to move and has manipulated the owner by talking about her plans for the horse when she starts riding again after her baby is born.

There's a natural break point in this and it's when the loaner stops riding for several weeks due to heavy pregnancy and birth. I think that's the day the loan should end, and there a should be no negotiation about it, otherwise this loan is never going to end.
.

After five years and a close friendship I feel that flexibility would be kind. As to how that works would be between the two people involved.

 

[ycbm]

After five years and a close friendship I feel that flexibility would be kind. As to how that works would be between the two people involved.

Well if you're talking about sharing him after the birth, then that's different.
.

 

[emilylou]

I've done this in a similar situation. I loaned out my horse when I went to uni to a lovely pony club home. They adored him and daughter took him to all PC activities, camp, fun rides etc. When I had 6 months left of uni I found myself in the unexpected position to be able to keep him near me for free at a local competition yard with help (a friend of mine was a groom there and had the chance to have her own horse so we agreed to share my horse there and livery him with her so we could both ride and compete.)
I wrote loaners a long email explaining the situation and that I would like my horse back. At this point, the daughter was not riding much and was developing other interests (lots of weekends away with friends) so I did not think they would be too upset as it was always clear it was not a permanent arrangement.
My email was very conversational and open ended. I did not give them an end date and said we could discuss more when I visited next but wanted to give them a heads up so they could have a chat between themselves.
Well, they were absolutely devastated. Apparently they didn't think I would want him back (at all!) and I had a reply along the lines of 'how could I do this to them? They are so upset and have so many plans.' They did not let me know an end date and I allowed them a few weeks to cool off before I asked again about an end date. Lots of distraught communication their end in between. But basically I went to collect him 8 weeks later (contract said a months notice).
Daughter refused to come out and see me, Mum was crying. I took them flowers, a thank you card for looking after him and a gift for daughter but the whole collection process was pretty sad/awkward as their reaction was so extreme. Prior to this I had an excellent relationship with them and would house sit for them when they went on holiday so really didn't expect all the dramatics. We are now on good terms again, they are a lovely family.
But I suppose the bottom line is, he was mine and it was always, only a LOAN.
He's your horse, so if you would like him back then you are well within your rights to do that. Yes, she will obviously be upset but if she wanted a horse to keep forever then she should buy one. The major downside of a loan is that the horse may go back to the owner, but that is the nature of the entire arrangement.

 

[Annagain]

I'd maybe suggest a share arrangement, the chances are once the baby arrives (especially if her partner is 2 hours away and she's on her own a lot) she won't have time and you'll pretty much have him to yourself anyway.

 

[meleeka]

If everything else is going to stay the same, could a share work? As others have said she’s going to be very busy soon and perhaps hasn’t thought that side of it through properly. If you are already sharing the horse it will be much easier to formally end the arrangement once her baby is here.

 

[MagicMelon]

I'd just sit her down and explain you are now ready to have him back full time and that you massively appreciate what she's done for him while she's had him. Maybe soften the blow by saying she can ride him a little bit once her baby is born until she finds a new horse? Then at least she's not cut off totally especially as the horse is still to be on her yard. If you just be honest and say how guilty you feel, that normally helps in these situations.

At the end of the day its your horse, she didnt pay for him in the first place, she has never owned him and Im sure she knows how a loan works. She may well just have no idea you even want him back if you havent hinted at all.

I loaned a horse out a few years ago, never again. Id heard several reports they werent looking after him so I immediately ended the agreement and went to pick him up (a 6 hour round trip) literally the next day. They hadnt had him long at this point, but as soon as I heard his welfare was potentially at risk that was it. They were pretty nasty to me when I went to collect him, but I didnt care, I just wanted my horse out of there. I will never loan again.

 

[Buster2020]

The problem is when people have loaned a horse for a few years they think that the horse is on forever loan. I seen it in my previous yard lots of people have horse on loan and they said they said they owner will never look for the horse back because they had the horse for 2 years . Be careful op things could turn nasty very quickly. Since she is a good friend maybe offer to share the horse than you take the horse back from her when the baby is born . It will soften the blow that why I will never put my horse on loan .

 

[eggs]

Like others have suggested, my first thought was why not share him for a while. It is quite likely that once the baby is born that she will have very little time (or inclination) to ride anyway.

 

[SpotsandBays]

Another thing to consider, you know this horse and it’s way of going etc (as it’s yours!) After having a baby you’re going to be relearning and training those muscles that have taken a hit from carrying a baby, would you want to do that on the horse that you know, or a new horse that you have no experience of?

 

[emilylou]

I'd just add, that in contrast I have had a mare from a friend since January, mare was very unschooled ex-racer who came very green, nappy and unfit. I have quietly worked with her over summer and she is now going well and getting to a point where she could do a few low level competitions. Original agreement was 18 months as friend was working away for that time so initially agreed I'd have her for two summers.
Last month, friend quit job and can now have a horse and wants mare back. She asked for her a few weeks ago, and of course, I said yes, no problem. Its her horse.
So she goes in three weeks. I could be cross that I have put lots of work in and now friend wants new improved horse back, but the mare has always belonged to her and life happens and things change. Plus, I'm not about to loose a friendship over it.

 

[Sauerkraut]

He is on loan. This means that whoever loans a horse always has to expect the loan agreement to end at some point. No matter how much work they have put in, or what they have planned with them in the future. Don't feel guilty about asking back your horse.

 

[SusieT]

Just as an aside- make sure you really are happy and ready totake him back - you dont want to find in 6 months you actually need to loan him again due to small child etc. - could you do a part time agreement that might suit both of you if you have small children?
Alternatively -if you don't want to then just say I'm ready to have him back, would xx date suit you - then firm up a date.

 

[sollimum]

I would just be honest - sit down and talk it through. Explain that you have more time now. Expect her to be upset. Could she buy him from you if she feels that strongly and then you have the funds to buy another? However, he is your horse and I have to say that we have 3 out on loan and I know that they could be returned to me at any time and vice versa - everyone knows that it is how a loan works.