Taking the P*** or misunderstood?

[be positive]

I think my horse takes the piss and have seen how he has taken something he has seen and turned it into unacceptable behaviour. I bought a new horse 2 years ago who wasn't used to being tied up outside stables, she was used to being inside a dutch barn system. The first time she had the wind blow up around the stables she pulled back and almost pulled the front of the stable off before the rope broke (other things going on at time in which we couldn't get to her to unclip her/ release quick release knot). Now obviously she was frightened and we have tried to work with her to help her tie up better, but if the wind picks up she's better being groomed in the middle of the field.
However my other horse has picked up on this now, whereas before he would stand still and even if frightened you'd get him to move forward. He just chucks his head up, pulls back and breaks the ropes every time. He's not the sharpest tool in the box, but with this he's definitely picked it up as a learned behaviour. It really infuriates me as, I'm sorry you can tell when he is taking the piss. He gets that look in his eye and I'm really running out of options as how to deal with it, as I'm slightly concerned he'll just pull the whole panel off the stable. I've had him from a youngster so I've known him all his life and it was not something I was happy about him picking up from the newbie.

I think he has learned that if he pulls back he can break away so will continue to do so until he finds he cannot, the mare is probably anxious from her previous experience and needs a more careful plan of action, the gelding however is not scared he is not taking the p just reading that you are worried about the stable falling down so times it so he can snap the rope before you grab him, I think tying up to anything that may move is risky, if he were mine I would tie him to something solid as you know he is not really worried and let him find out it doesn't move and that you are not concerned in the least, it may be easier said than done but I think all horses should be able to be tied up or be 100% ground tied as you never know when it may be essential.

I have one who had a bad experience, he went from being happily tied up anywhere to getting very worried about being tied in his normal place, not where the incident happened as that was while he was away from my care, he is fine tied in a stable or in the inside yard so for now that is where he gets tied up and I expect him to stand there without a fuss, if he gets anxious I try to ignore him as I know he senses if I become tense, he will then calm down, it is not easy to ignore a big horse having a strop but they are often just attention seeking and by ignoring it they learn it doesn't get them anywhere .

 

[AdorableAlice]

The best piece of advice that was given to me (by Adam Kemp, I think) is that every interaction with a horse is a training situation whether you mean it to be or not. Every time you lead a horse, ride it, groom it etc you are training it, so make sure you are training it to be what you want it to be. I have found it is very easy to ignore something very small and have it escalate into something that becomes a real problem when if it had been nipped in the bud at the start it would not have been a problem at all!

Spot on.

I have a thinking maxi cob . She was never properly halter broken and when I bought her she was awfully rude to lead and I had many a Penelope and Kipper moment with her. So I stuck the dually on her and taught her to be soft and polite. Didn't take long and she would walk at my side reading my body language perfectly and did not so much as look at a blade of grass.

I have had her 4 years now and if I put a normal head collar on she reverts to being a rude, head to the floor creature immediately, put dually on, not fitted tightly just hanging on her, and I have little Miss Perfect.

Horses certainly don't plot against us, they simply learn by repetition and can learn bad just as easily as good behaviour.

 

[SEL]

I've had plenty of dramas with my PSSM positive young mare, but before coming to me she had 5 years of pushing boundaries and getting her own way so working out what was pain & what was her being a diva has been a challenge. I think one of the big steps forward for me was when she had a total meltdown about walking around the paddock. She was running backwards, rearing, trying to run to the gate and I just thought 'if your muscles feel well enough to rear then they are flippin well enough to walk a few circuits of this field'. So I sat the hissy fit, got my own way and the next day she was perfect.

I have had to put my brave pants on a few times with this one. She's worse when she's feeling well because then she bucks - & it's those bucks where they come up at the front first to throw as much enthusiasm into it as possible. I'm too old for rodeo horses! (Hoping she'll grow out of it....)

 

[be positive]

Spot on.

I have a thinking maxi cob . She was never properly halter broken and when I bought her she was awfully rude to lead and I had many a Penelope and Kipper moment with her. So I stuck the dually on her and taught her to be soft and polite. Didn't take long and she would walk at my side reading my body language perfectly and did not so much as look at a blade of grass.

I have had her 4 years now and if I put a normal head collar on she reverts to being a rude, head to the floor creature immediately, put dually on, not fitted tightly just hanging on her, and I have little Miss Perfect.

Horses certainly don't plot against us, they simply learn by repetition and can learn bad just as easily as good behaviour.

Your Ted would be a prime example of a horse that could have so easily gone wrong, he needed a really clear calm approach to life which you gave him, to learn to have self confidence and trust, the way he has progressed, even if there are moments of regression, is a real credit to you for allowing him to become the horse he is.

On the learning of habits I think they can learn bad ones more easily than good as generally the bad habits are the ones that revolve around food, pull away to find grass being the one that most will try on given half a chance.

 

[teapot]

I am convinced the horse I gave up riding was in pain/discomfort rather than being 'just a nob' as I kept being told. Everything that I had been told about him and what I noticed with my own two eyes over a few months added up to an unhappy horse. Don't get me wrong, he definitely had a cheeky side too, and had been allowed to develop some hideous manners, but my gut feeling said there was more to it...

 

[Equi]

The best piece of advice that was given to me (by Adam Kemp, I think) is that every interaction with a horse is a training situation whether you mean it to be or not. Every time you lead a horse, ride it, groom it etc you are training it, so make sure you are training it to be what you want it to be. I have found it is very easy to ignore something very small and have it escalate into something that becomes a real problem when if it had been nipped in the bud at the start it would not have been a problem at all!

Yes I can vouch for that advice! I will always throw a stop when leading and catch my horse out. 9/10 he'll stop as soon as I do, but sometimes he'll forget and then he needs reminded of his leading manners.

 

[FlashyP]

Horses don't have the executive function to 'take the pee', their brains don't work like that. I like this Ray Hunt quote and try and remember it when I start to anthropomorphise my horses' intentions:

“The horse does one of two things. He does what he thinks he's supposed to do, or he does what he thinks he needs to do to survive.” ― Ray Hunt

Like a few other posters have said, every interaction we have with our horses is training them. Good and bad habits are human perceptions. Most of the things we do with our horses are illogical in their eyes, so they don't understand what is 'right' or 'wrong' and most of the issues we have with them are things we have inadvertently trained them to to. Horses need 100% consistency in their handling they will always test the boundaries with their handlers as that is what they need to do to survive in the wild and what their instincts tell them to do.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Your Ted would be a prime example of a horse that could have so easily gone wrong, he needed a really clear calm approach to life which you gave him, to learn to have self confidence and trust, the way he has progressed, even if there are moments of regression, is a real credit to you for allowing him to become the horse he is.

On the learning of habits I think they can learn bad ones more easily than good as generally the bad habits are the ones that revolve around food, pull away to find grass being the one that most will try on given half a chance.

That is very kind, Ted has taught me more about horse behaviour in 4 years that the previous 40 years of horse keeping I have done.

There was a very special moment with Ted a couple of days ago. An autistic young man visited the yard to see the horses. He was fascinated by Ted who was being trimmed by the farrier. Mindful that Ted is unpredictable I was a little wary when the young man approached Ted's head. He is still head shy and whips his head around or up very quickly. To watch the horse lower his head and allow himself to be cuddled by a stranger was just lovely. I am convinced he knew all was not right and he chose to be careful.

Going back to the thread, I am a great believer in a horse being set up for life with the way it is handled from foal to 4. Get the basics in, the ground manners, spacial awareness and trust you will have a good base to go forwards with.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

That is very kind, Ted has taught me more about horse behaviour in 4 years that the previous 40 years of horse keeping I have done.

There was a very special moment with Ted a couple of days ago. An autistic young man visited the yard to see the horses. He was fascinated by Ted who was being trimmed by the farrier. Mindful that Ted is unpredictable I was a little wary when the young man approached Ted's head. He is still head shy and whips his head around or up very quickly. To watch the horse lower his head and allow himself to be cuddled by a stranger was just lovely. I am convinced he knew all was not right and he chose to be careful.

Going back to the thread, I am a great believer in a horse being set up for life with the way it is handled from foal to 4. Get the basics in, the ground manners, spacial awareness and trust you will have a good base to go forwards with.

I agree completely, and certainly the earlier we can start them on this route the better, imo. Lovely to hear how Ted reacted so gently to his visitor I can only hope that my current project will turn out half as nice!

 

[NooNoo59]

I have taken over a 12 year old who has been owned for 8 years and be allowed to get away with stuff. Doesn't do anything major but bucks on thd lunge, he used to be let go, does a bit of leg smearing on the school fence, rider would get off and so on. I am unpicking years of him being allowed to do what he wants we have been together a year and have made great progress. But he does take the mick and it's knowing when he is genuinely not sure or just trying to avoid work ! He is a canny soul but I do love him!