Talk me down - thinking of buying a second horse

[Tash88]

This could potentially be a very long post so I will keep it concise and then answer any questions that you have, although I will try not to drip-feed! Here is the situation:

I've had my lovely WB x TB for 4 years, during which there have been LOTS of ups and downs. He didn't have a rough start as such but he had an unsympathetic start and he has some ingrained bad (bordering on dangerous) habits that although have improved greatly, I can't see how they will ever go away. I have exhausted most avenues including seeking help from a very well-known and respected trainer; he suggested that the problems will never go away but will become much easier to deal with and they have, but I can't see myself ever being able to do what I really want to do with him, which is absolutely heartbreaking to admit. All I really want to do is to go out to some dressage competitions and maybe affiliate one day, and I am capable of this, it isn't an unrealistic pipe dream.

My confidence has been broken too many times and in some ways I feel quite restricted, but when things are going well I feel on top of the world. I went through a rough couple of weeks with him recently and seriously thought about giving up, but then thought about how far I had come. Perhaps we aren't the best match ever but I know I will NEVER part with him. At the moment he is on part-livery at a lovely dressage yard. He is easy to do, 10 y/o, sound and healthy.

My current situation is that I am 28 and work full time. Life is good at the moment, I have enough money to live on each month but no savings. My horse gets the best of everything; even though he is on livery I see him every day (apart from when I am travelling for work/away which isn't that often) and I ride 5/6 days a week. I am a hands-on owner, especially since until a year ago I was on DIY with this horse and the one before him who tragically passed away suddenly aged 11.

I had been toying with the idea of getting a second horse for a little while, but I couldn't afford two on part livery where I am now and I wouldn't want to move from my current yard as my trainer is there and I love it. I could potentially go on DIY and work 10 mins from the yard, but for the first time in ages I have a bit of a life and lots of time to ride.

Recently a lovely little horse has come up for sale, via a good friend of mine, who says that we would be perfect for each other. He may be something I could progress with and realise some ambitions, providing everything is ok if I try him and he passes a vetting etc etc. I know all horses have problems and nothing is perfect, but there is such a long and emotional history with my horse and I kind of feel like it is always going to hold me back. I am not getting any younger and I want to get out and do things before I have to think about having children etc. But as I said, I will always keep my horse and the thought of giving up on his training isn't a nice one.

So this is a bit of a vent (and if you know me in real life please keep it to yourself!) but I'd just like to have some opinions. Buying this horse (or any second horse for that matter) wouldn't be the issue but it would be impossible to keep two on part livery, even though that would be perfect. It would have to be one on diy/grass livery and one on part livery, possibly at two different yards, although there is a little yard next door to work where I already know people. I wouldn't want to stop riding and working with my horse and part of me thinks that if I am working with another one and that is going well, I would feel more confident. This was certainly the case when I worked at a livery yard for a year and was riding 2+ horses a day there.

So honest opinions please: how much harder is it having two horses and am I completely crazy to even be considering this?

Thank you for reading and in advance for replying

Tash x

 

[FfionWinnie]

I would absolutely get the more suitable horse but I probably wouldn't burden myself with the unsuitable one in the scenario you describe. Once you have one you can enjoy properly, perhaps your views on what to do with the other may change. Don't beat yourself up if they do, would be my advice.

 

[Amirah]

I would also get the more suitable horse, life is short and it's what you don't do or get that you regret most, I am still kicking myself over a horse I should have bought 15 years ago!

 

[WelshD]

I would get the second horse however when I bought the second pony I didn't realise the extra work - its not just twice as time consuming in my personal experience its more than twice the work (others may disagree)

In saying that the newer pony I have is what I call (tongue in cheek) a 'real' pony and is so easy, like you I have had ups and downs with the first, I love him to bits but the newer one being so easy makes the tricky times with the first a lot more bearable

 

[Antw23uk]

I would say get a more suitable horse and move your current horse on to someone he might really gel with. One horse is a hobby, two horses is a job if you ask me and from what friends have said. I think with work and two separate yards you will eventually burn out and not ride as much as you currently are. Life is too short.

There is nothing wrong with saying you and your current horse aren't a good match. The strength comes from admitting it and doing something positive about it. Good luck/

 

[Amirah]

I would get the second horse however when I bought the second pony I didn't realise the extra work - its not just twice as time consuming in my personal experience its more than twice the work (others may disagree)

In saying that the newer pony I have is what I call (tongue in cheek) a 'real' pony and is so easy, like you I have had ups and downs with the first, I love him to bits but the newer one being so easy makes the tricky times with the first a lot more bearable

I definitely agree, it's more like they're squared rather than plus one, same as kids. My biggest mistake was thinking 'what's one more' and adding a third, now two seems like a doddle in comparison.

Once you have the easy horse you might want to consider other avenues in order to make the difficult one less of an imposition (grass livery etc). Horses are expensive and time consuming, you deserve to be having fun with an uncomplicated one.

 

[Holly7]

I feel like I'm reading my own thoughts !!! I'm in exactly the same boat. Nursing one horse that I don't think will come back to be a ridden horse and even if he did, he wont be able to do what I would like to, but I am also loosing my confidence due to whats happened with him. But he is the most easy to do look after, one of the cleanest I've ever owned and such a loving personality that I couldn't bare to part with him, even if he turns into "just a companion horse" (he will be 5 next week! eek!! long life ahead!!) .......... So I say go for it ............... I am seriously contemplating it also, just dreading the bills and the possibility that I buy another broken horse :-(((((

 

[Abacus]

Given that you mention enjoying having a life and time to ride, having a second horse will mean that this time is eaten away further even if you did somehow have them on part-livery - if you plan on keeping both in work. Realistically, if you find that you enjoy the new one much more than the old one, it'e inevitable that he will end up with less riding and attention from you (however hard you try), and it won't help the problems he has.

I think I would try to take the new horse (or 'a' new horse) and part with the old one, if that is possible. Maybe with a bit of overlap to prove that this is the right thing to do.

It sounds as though you are a one-horse person - it will get a lot of attention and riding, which is brilliant. So it's worth putting all that love and ambition into the right horse.

Your issue then becomes what to do with the old one - which will depend on his issues and manageability. But most horses that are sound could find a job with someone. More details needed! He's a young horse but if he really is unsaleable maybe he could go to a retirement livery where he can just have a nice life in a herd?

x

 

[dixie]

Okay, this is the scenario I've just been in .
A lovely horse I bought a couple of years ago had lots of ups and downs also and with me falling off more than I ever have. Eventually had a work up and found out he had arthritis in the neck & after medication it was apparent he wasn't going to be jumping again. So being much older than you, I didn't want to stop as I wouldn't get back into it again so started looking for a second horse with the plan of riding first horse out hacking and light dressage, possibly with a sharer/loaner.
Now I've had two horses before and they are definitely more hard work and obviously cost & I'm on DIY about 30 mins away from my house - only go up once a day though as my mother does the other end.
My second horse has landed in my lap - long story but I already knew him and the owners could see I was looking for another and after a months trial I snapped him up.
I haven't regretted it a bit.
Yes, I am now mucking out and feeding two but the fun I'm having with the second horse makes up for the doubts and disappointments of the last two years. I've gone from not going clear for the last two years (ever) to consistently jumping double clears BS and winning money. It makes the hard work over the winter so much more worth it.
On the down side I had hoped to hack my other horse still but he doesn't seem to be even up to that, so he's being retired at 9. I think you will need to keep you options open with your older horse as certainly I found that its the exercising two horses difficult when you are working too & it maybe that ultimately a sharer or loaner would be a more viable open.
Either way, I think you should go for it - especially if you've come across a horse you know rather than an unknown quantity.

 

[benz]

I used to have 5 on DIY and I worked full time 6 days a week. Every spare minute/penny spent on horses, I loved it. I am thoroughly obsessed with horses though so I would rather be down the yard than in the pub

Whether you can do it or not only you know. Have you considered a share?

 

[Merlod]

What are the problems the current horse has and are you sure he will never get there? If you are riding regularly he must be somewhat ok? Otherwise I would agree with the other posters, parting with the old horse and buying something more suitable would be best for you.

Perhaps there will be a suitable home for him out there, or if he really is too difficult you could put him on a retirement livery which will cut down your costs and time and allow you to keep the new horse on part livery.

 

[Zipzop]

If you are insistent on keeping first horse, then sorry to disagree with the majority here but there is no way in this situation I'd get the second horse.
First off you can't afford to keep two on your current yard. So separate yards yes can be done but will be extra time consuming having to travel between the two.
Secondly, the second horse would be on DIY or grass but somewhere else, however, I think but could be wrong , you still want to be very hands on with first horse and still want to ride him 5/6 days a week? If you will be wanting to compete second horse he will obs need riding same amount as the first horse. I'm imagining your routine would be something like this

Am - see to DIY horse turn out muck out etc.
Go to work
Finish work
Head to first horse and exercise
Then get to second horse exercise and finish off for the night

IMO ul be out til ten at night! Plus your social life which you say you like will be non existent and I can't imagine having to ride two horses every evening in winter and be out all those hours.

I finish work at 8pm and then pop down to check on my horse and finish off if needed and let me tell you however much I love him by the time I've worked and it's 8pm and dark cold wet and miserable in the winter the last thing I want to do is go to the yard.

The only happy doable way is to,replace first horse but as you have said you don't want to do that I think a second horse is a no no.

 

[Micropony]

This might come out sounding a bit more blunt than I mean it to, so apologies in advance!

As an outsider, just going from the information in your post it sounds as though you can't be confident of having the time and money long term to do full justice to two horses to the standard you'd really want.

You come across as a very caring and responsible owner who is deeply emotionally involved with a horse who's taken you on a bit of a roller coaster ride but who ultimately isn't able to do the job for you that you want.

If he's tricky but talented, as a 10yo there is every chance of finding him a lovely home with someone who will take good care of him. He could be someone's perfect horse.

Could you think of getting the suitable horse you want and moving the current one either into retirement livery or a new home, perhaps on a LWVTB type arrangement to give you some comfort it really is a suitable home?

 

[Vodkagirly]

Can you put first horse out on loan/share/retirement livery or consider pts? If you don't have time to do diy with 1, your going to struggle with 2 and one on diy.
Life is much more fun when you have a horse that wants the same things as you and everything is no longer a battle. I was in the same position last year and got the second horse, I wish I had sooner. I am now skint and shattered, but I don't regret it.

 

[JLD]

I struggled for years with an unsuitable horse. He was my first horse that I got aged 27 after years and years of waiting. I persevered because I loved him. 7 years later children came along and I had to pretty much shelve my riding ambitions as I just couldn't juggle a very high stress long hours career, family and a horse despite him being on part livery. He went on loan and was pts a few years later. Children have taken over I can't see me getting back to horses properly for many years if ever. I have lost the income to support it and the drive to achieve it. But I never achieved what I wanted to - I never got to do all the things I dreamed of during my long wait for a horse and I do regret it. Deeply. I should have sold him to someone he suited better and bought something that suited me better. You may not be able to turn the clock back in a few years time and you may need to live with the regret of not perusing your dreams. If you have the chance grab it now. You don't know what life holds in the future. But I would seriously consider whether you really really need to hold on to horse one or if someone else might he able to offer him a really good home and future. I was blind to the options. It didn't do any of us any favours in the end.

 

[Abacus]

I struggled for years with an unsuitable horse. He was my first horse that I got aged 27 after years and years of waiting. I persevered because I loved him. 7 years later children came along and I had to pretty much shelve my riding ambitions as I just couldn't juggle a very high stress long hours career, family and a horse despite him being on part livery. He went on loan and was pts a few years later. Children have taken over I can't see me getting back to horses properly for many years if ever. I have lost the income to support it and the drive to achieve it. But I never achieved what I wanted to - I never got to do all the things I dreamed of during my long wait for a horse and I do regret it. Deeply. I should have sold him to someone he suited better and bought something that suited me better. You may not be able to turn the clock back in a few years time and you may need to live with the regret of not perusing your dreams. If you have the chance grab it now. You don't know what life holds in the future. But I would seriously consider whether you really really need to hold on to horse one or if someone else might he able to offer him a really good home and future. I was blind to the options. It didn't do any of us any favours in the end.

I totally agree with this and had the same experience. I think I was 26 when I had my first, although I had loaned and shared for a long time before that. I 'wasted' 4 years with an unsuitable horse - learned a lot, but it was time I could have spent better. Eventually I did come to my senses, sold him and bought a perfect, wonderful horse who took me eventing and doing things I had always wanted to. I've had him for 10 years and he's now retired from eventing and will be with me forever. I didn't ever do as much as I wanted, but feel lucky to have got there in a small way (and haven't quite given up hope yet, despite family life).

 

[Nicnac]

I would sell first horse and get the more suitable one (as long as it really is more suitable and not just your friend seeing an easy option for selling her horse as you sound as you would give it a fantastic home).

If the first horse doesn't allow you to do what you want, why keep it? You work hard for what is essentially a hobby and which doesn't allow you to save any money - two horses would make the financial situation worse and you would have less time for other things. You love your yard and wouldn't be able to stay there with two horses.

I have two, keep them at home and work very long hours. The only reason I keep the ex-racehorse who can no longer jump is that he is a companion to my other horse. It is a lot of work and costly even at home as it doubles bedding, food, hay, vaccinations, farrier, etc. etc. etc.

 

[ester]

I too would sell horse 1, or if he is really not suitable for sale let him go and live out in a field in a retirement livery situation as long as I could afford it. - If you feel he is too good for this, he is good enough to loan/sell.

 

[Pigeon]

What's specifically wrong with the 10yo behaviourally? Could it be a physical issue? (maybe think about medicating hocks, they are often the culprit?) Could he go for professional schooling? I would have one last bash at trying to sort him out first. Maybe set a time frame of 6 months and have some intensive lessons, maybe even get a pro to compete him?

My tb can be awkward and I genuinely NEVER thought we would get to the stage we're at - winning novice BD with 70%+, just qualified for under 25s etc. I'm not even joking we could barely get round an intro without major drama - We have been eliminated (from dressage!!) more than once! It is really in the last year that everything has fallen into place. Ulcer medication and lots of lessons with different instructors was the key for us

But I agree you should be able to go out and have fun, though don't underestimate the work of having two ridden horses!

 

[Tash88]

Thank you all for the replies, all very helpful and thanks for taking the time to write them.

I wouldn't say my current horse was unsuitable, but if I was putting it bluntly then he might be. The behavioural issues are being generally overreactive and napping in the school. He is fine to hack and the schooling issues have improved greatly since I moved yards a year ago, away from where he was born. I think if I were to get a second I'd still keep him, even on retirement/grass livery. He was misunderstood before I got him and I'm not saying that I am the perfect owner by any stretch of the imagination but I've gone to great efforts to 'understand' him and I can't bear for him to be in a situation where he's thought of as 'naughty' and treated unsympathetically again.

Sharers haven't worked in the past; he either takes a dislike to them or me and doesn't seem to like the change. He is a bit of a one-person horse, maybe like I'm a one-horse person!

I do still think there is more to come from him in terms of improvements, however whether I will ever be able to take him to a show I just don't know. I've worked so hard and been so patient with him and I'm prepared to carry on but I can see myself reaching 30, settling down and still not having achieved much! I'm not sure I believe in horses having to do a job, yes he could do well with someone else but even if he was just out in a field, he would be none the wiser. He would be fine living out all year round if he had an optional shelter to go in, I'd just feel guilty about not giving him as much time.

Thanks again; this post is a little bit rushed as I am leaving work soon, but your replies are honestly appreciated.

Tash x

 

[Tash88]

Just an update - the horse I had my eye on has now been sold. Clearly not meant to be but it has planted a seed in my mind and I am considering different options.

I did know that my friend had someone viewing him yesterday and I told him that he shouldn't hold out for me to make a decision, so I am not upset with him, it's just how things worked out this time. There are lots of horses out there.

 

[HiPo'sHuman]

I would get the second horse however when I bought the second pony I didn't realise the extra work - its not just twice as time consuming in my personal experience its more than twice the work (others may disagree)

I totally agree with this! My two are at different yards at the moment and it's really getting me down.

 

[Pigeon]

I wouldn't say my current horse was unsuitable, but if I was putting it bluntly then he might be. The behavioural issues are being generally overreactive and napping in the school. He is fine to hack and the schooling issues have improved greatly since I moved yards a year ago, away from where he was born. I think if I were to get a second I'd still keep him, even on retirement/grass livery. He was misunderstood before I got him and I'm not saying that I am the perfect owner by any stretch of the imagination but I've gone to great efforts to 'understand' him and I can't bear for him to be in a situation where he's thought of as 'naughty' and treated unsympathetically again.

Has he been scoped? Sounds exactly like how mine was!! He was a different horse after two weeks on gastrogard. If he's insured it's worth a shot?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

So many horses are terrible to hack. If yours is good to hack alone, I'd full loan him to a hacking home. Or if you wanted to stay more involved in his welfare, part loan him from the current yard, keeping him on part livery but not doing things with him yourself, so he basically becomes the sharers' horse but you're around in a vague sense to oversee his care.

I thought long and hard for 3yrs before getting a second horse. Didn't want to part with the first who is slowing down with age and still don't. I wasn't having fun and couldn't do what I wanted, I considered PTS and getting out of horses altogether (couldn't PTS and replace with something more capable, I'd have felt far far too guilty, he doesn't deserve that). I was riding for short periods daily and wanting to do more that the horse could cope with, especially in summer, so I got a 2nd.

It was fine (except for being so so tired because I was at a yard with zero winter turnout) until I met my boyfriend. Then I changed and now I want to spend my time with him, away from the yard. 2 horses feels like very hard work now. I'm not wanting to ride much at all, a few times a week if that and constantly feel guilty about not working them enough, though it's silly because they really don't care how much work they get and are fine being pampered pets.

I love the horse care side of it all, though it drags me down in winter quite a bit having to do 2. This is because I moved to a yard with winter turnout but its not near home. What's getting to me lately is that I'm spending a significant proportion of my income on horses. As well as putting all my energies into it, with all the worry etc that goes along with ownership. I keep thinking I could be spending the same amount/riding the same amount at a very good local riding school, where I'd be totally committment free. If I did that then in winter when I wanted to ride less, I'd be both warmer and richer too. But then I'd not have the horse care side of things which I love, and I'd not have the same partnership with a school horse that you get with your own.

I'm not sure if it's just always thinking the grass is greener or whether I should just give up horses for a while/permanently. What I can say is that having a 2nd horse didn't suddenly make everything ok, which was basically what I was wanting from the situation. And now that my circumstances have changed and I don't want to spend every minute I can at the yard, I'm left with 2 horses who I don't want to part with instead of just the one, so I'm not sure I've done myself any favours in that sense.

 

[Tash88]

Has he been scoped? Sounds exactly like how mine was!! He was a different horse after two weeks on gastrogard. If he's insured it's worth a shot?

No he hasn't, to be honest ulcers have never really crossed my mind as he's done this since before he was backed (spinning around on the lunge) which was before I got him, and then he only does it in the school and only in certain circumstances. He is also fine to handle and there are no issues with doing his girth up or whatever. He never bucks or kicks out and to my knowledge that is also another ulcer symptom. I'm happy to be corrected though!

 

[bollybop]

Potentially would be worth getting him scoped, even if for peace of mind before selling.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

No he hasn't, to be honest ulcers have never really crossed my mind as he's done this since before he was backed (spinning around on the lunge) which was before I got him, and then he only does it in the school and only in certain circumstances. He is also fine to handle and there are no issues with doing his girth up or whatever. He never bucks or kicks out and to my knowledge that is also another ulcer symptom. I'm happy to be corrected though!

To be honest the fact he does it on the lunge too makes me think he is uncomfortable some where if he is fine out hacking as both school work and lunging put pressure on were as hacking is just straight lines and easier on the body.

Has he had a full vet lameness work up?

 

[Tash88]

Thank you for the further replies - thought I would update quickly.

He has been fine this weekend but was a bit quirky in the school on Friday evening, I was able to ride through it though.

He had a two stage vetting when I bought him four years ago and passed that, with minimal lameness issues since. He has only been lame as a result of losing a shoe/injury and nothing has been ongoing. He has been generally healthy; the odd infection (eye/sheath) and allergic reactions but nothing major. He has always had regular Bowen therapy sessions, saddle checks, dental appointments etc.

Tomorrow it is free callout day at the vets I use and so I am planning on getting everything checked, for peace of mind more than anything. However would it be too much in one appointment for him to have his sight checked, be scoped and have a lameness work up? The reason I want his sight checked is that my YO (also my trainer) mentioned that he doesn't react at all if you make a sudden movement towards his eyes, and she was right. He had an eye infection at the end of last year and although it responded quickly to treatment and his eyes look fine, I am slightly concerned that there is some scar tissue/a cataract forming as a result and thought it was worth checking.

The scenario at the moment is that if there is nothing wrong with him he will probably go to Jason Webb's for a couple of weeks' remedial work (have had two fantastic sessions with Jason already), but if there is something wrong with him he will have the necessary treatment and Petplan will hopefully pay out.

Thanks again,

Tash x

 

[bollybop]

A free call out is likely enough not to include gastroscopes and lameness workups. In fact you will probably be wasting your money on getting vet to come and poke and prod him and say we need to get him in to the surgery for a proper workup

 

[Pigeon]

I would definitely scope, the company that makes gastrogard sometimes offers it for free, I got mine done this way. I wish I had done it years ago!!!

Does your boy ever put his ears back when you school him? Also discomfort on a surface but fine on hard ground can be feet or a soft tissue problem. Although it sounds like he is sound, I would personally have a workup done before committing to a new horse, just for peace of mind. If he's insured just get everything checked, but try and claim for something specific (eg. gut issues or sight issues) , my claim was under 'unidentified discomfort' and so a lot of things are excluded because of it.

How is he to compete? Nappy? Again, mine is more normal if he goes out a lot.