Talk to me about PRE horses......

[Cortez]

So may I ask are the uk bred ones less likely to have issues with grazing and sweet itch.
And in Spain do the trained ones command huge prices what level are they normally at when they sell them this was the bit where my plan got a bit sticky and I got side tracked with the horse I bought whom I had been watching for eighteen months.

I think you'll have a better chance of knowing if they are prone to sweet itch if you can see them in the UK - if you import you won't know if they are going to get it until they are here. Yes, the most highly trained horses in Spain command HUGE prices - so don't go looking at those ones. Unfortunately the Spanish are just like ourselves in that when we hear an English accent the price goes up and up and up.....Get yourself a good local advisor or experienced buyer, and haggle like hell - or give them your budget (this is what I do) and ask only to see the ones within it. I have never paid more than 2,000 euros for any of mine.

 

[Spanish Eyes]

It was always a bit of a secret dream of mine to have one , so when I needed to buy a horse last time I did a bit of research on the quiet .
I found out lots of stuff some good the temperaments stunning looking good size for me lots around 16hh but also not so good issues with grazing handling the change from Spain or Portugal to here and the clincher for more than one person said they found there trots hard on their backs , this was my trainers big worry ( she and my back have been friends for years ) so I filed the dream and bought a TB instead whom I love I had always loved and he came available just at the right time I still look and wonder if should have gone for it.
But I was not even sure what I wanted to do with one !!! I fear i just wanted one because i like the look . I love reading the threads about them on here.

Interesting that you mention your back. That same PRE stud owner commented to me that their trot is very good for people with back pain, especially lower back pain. As an Occupational Therapist I was sceptical, but since riding mine regularly my back has improved no-end - the movement is very different from other breeds, and very easy to sit to.

You need to go and ride some for yourself

 

[Cortez]

Oh dear this has me thinking again .
The temperament thing is interesting because my understanding was they where clever and quick to learn my trainer on the other hand thought I would not find them senestive or sharp enough for my taste .( as well as the sitting thing)
These things are hard people can make desisions based on not having had experiance of many horses of that type and within a type or breed there will be a huge range of types.
I was most concerned if I went to Spain if the horse would struggle up north with the weather and the lifestyle .

Erm, no disrespect to your trainer, but has he/she actually ever ridden a Spanish horse? I have a very good German friend who bought a Spanish horse specifically because they do not move in the back as much as a WB, he has had back surgery and is now a very happy man. Not sharp enough? You have GOT to be kidding?

 

[Goldenstar]

Erm, no disrespect to your trainer, but has he/she actually ever ridden a Spanish horse? I have a very good German friend who bought a Spanish horse specifically because they do not move in the back as much as a WB, he has had back surgery and is now a very happy man. Not sharp enough? You have GOT to be kidding?

I know I was surprised to I expected her to like the idea as she trained two to PSG before they went back home for their owners to ride. Taught people who have them too.
I am well I hate discussing this sort thing experianced evented at advanced level been on international dressage yards ! Worked on big dealers yards in my youth I can ride any almost sane horse I don't know why ( perhaps I would ask her ) I have usually ridden vey sharp warm bloods with her I tended to sell the more laid back home breds as they are not my type .
Perhaps she could not see past what she knows I chose usually.
The back thing too I thought from watching them that they look easier on the back than a WB can be.
Perhaps I should get one and surprise her !

 

[Goldenstar]

Oberon ,are you thinking of going Spanish ?

 

[JM]

My pure bred Lusitano was imported from Spain as a 2 year old - he is now 5. He is as tough as nails, we live on the North York Moors and it is bleak and freezing in winter, but he always looks well, eats well and is fine. He doesn't like mud much, but there are no real ill effects from our winters.
So don't worry too much - most Iberians are pretty tough.

 

[BBP]

Im not sure how typical of the breed mine is as he has a little Welsh B in him, but he is super sensitive, hyperactive and sharp as a tack, but also again a great work ethic, always wants to learn something new, try a new game. He is very reponsive. He picked up basic spanish walk easily and plays other tricks too. He is a very happy, friendly horse, loves people, horses, dogs, cats, ducks, chickens...everything he has met so far!

He isn't exactly 'scopey', but then I haven't pushed him. So far he happily pops 3ft loose schooling, and a bit smaller with me on board. We hope to start XC this autumn as he hasn't done much so far. If I can learn to ride properly I hope to get him working to advanced dressage at home, but prefer to compete at trec and mini ODEs/jumpcross.

I'm not sure his movement is typical spanish, more show pony, but again it is very good with my prolapsed disc/sciatica.

No idea what his technical colour is, he is the colour of 80% dark chocolate, but has a dorsal stripe.

I have had an arab as well, both lovely horses.

 

[tallyho!]

Or give them your budget (this is what I do) and ask only to see the ones within it. I have never paid more than 2,000 euros for any of mine.

OMG Cortez! Isn't that a bit risky business?? I thought first rule of the haggle is never tell them what you'll pay...

So with transport about £2500? Yes I suppose that is good value if you know what you are looking as I am sure you do.

One thing to think about Oberon, is what "type" you want and do your research on the bloodlines. There is a strict breed standard but some breeders will be breeding baroque types and others will be breeding modern sportier types to challenge the WBs. If you want a PRE make sure the parents are "PRE Papered". If not you will not be able to register as one.

 

[stencilface]

Can do everything any other horse can tbh, some are good at jumping such as Novilhiero - a horse that John Whitaker had for a time, and some are good at dressage - all that practise avoiding bulls I think they find collection easier than extension.

http://www.jpgiacomini.com/jpphotogallery.html#novilheiro-tribute

!!!! Shame on you Stencilface ...Novilheiro was a famous LUSITANO not a PRE
... Think you might have gotten a little confused xx

Sorry, I kind of think of them as being the same temp etc wise, just different breeds. Ok, so mine is a half luso, and I was told he has novilhiero bloodlines (was told my horses sire was novilhieros full brother, which I investigated to be impossible) but I don't know what, and have no proof - other than he looks like a luso so I might be a bit novilhiero biased

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

I want one as my next horse, Im hoping it will be a while before I have to buy another horse but Im planning to try to ride a few to check I do like them.

 

[Jenni_]

The one i used to ride was amazing- like riding on a cloud!

Very sensitive and quirky.

He's now with the stampede stunt company and thriving!!! He liked to be busy.

 

[Pixxie]

Personally I prefer Lusitanos simply because I find them lighter and prefer their 'stamp' they do also come in Dun and I would recommend importing especially from a particular man in Portugal. I know 8 that have come from him all are divine in temperament and training and the man is a pleasure to know and deal with

 

[Armas]

PRE's rock ......... My moto is If it ain't Baroque don't ride it!

 

[Jenni_]

I do love Armas <3

 

[Armas]

I do love Armas <3

And I can assure you he does love you too !

 

[Cortez]

I think it's all down to being sensible - just like buying any other breed or type of horse. Do your research, talk to breeders, owners, trainers, don't rush off and buy the first lovely thing with a long flowing mane (don't get me started on the "dream horse" buyers!), REALLY think about what you want the horse for - Spanish horses were NOT bred to slop through mud, chase hounds, jump 6' or happy hack, which doesn't mean that some won't be perfectly happy doing all of these - and REALLY be honest with yourselves about your level of riding.

 

[Oberon]

Oberon ,are you thinking of going Spanish ?

No, just musing really

I have no time or money for another horse.

Beyond them being pretty, I've never understood the attraction of PRE as I thought they were only useful for dressage and the only ones I've heard about have been fruitcakes

However - people have similar misconceptions about Arabs so I thought it only fair that I educated myself a little more

Another one I'd like to ask is - are they supposed to have big bellies compared to the rest of the body?

 

[Cortez]

No, just musing really

I have no time or money for another horse.

Beyond them being pretty, I've never understood the attraction of PRE as I thought they were only useful for dressage and the only ones I've heard about have been fruitcakes

However - people have similar misconceptions about Arabs so I thought it only fair that I educated myself a little more

Another one I'd like to ask is - are they supposed to have big bellies compared to the rest of the body?

Ha ha! That's a very impolite way of describing the typical old baroque type of deep-bodied, rounded outline. A very large majority of the PRE horses I have seen in the UK have been overweight (to say the least), in Spain you see fitter horses, but yes, they do tend to look a bit tubby in comparison with the more modern 'greyhound' outline of the TB

 

[tallyho!]

Spanish horses were NOT bred to slop through mud, chase hounds, jump 6' or happy hack, which doesn't mean that some won't be perfectly happy doing all of these - and REALLY be honest with yourselves about your level of riding.

Wow. What a perfectly ridiculous statement you have made. In your opinion, what were they bred for?

 

[showqa]

Well, I had mine as a 4.5 yo (he's now just gone 9). He has never been a novice ride, and he is very sensitive. BUT I adore him!! We jump a 3ft course easily, and in all honesty we haven't done much in the way of serious jump training. He loves going cross country, although he's never going to be as fast as your average TB over cross country. Needless to say, his flatwork he can do in his sleep really - although medium strides/extension more difficult for him than collection.

Very intelligent horse and you do have to be on top of your game or he'll have you round his little finger, but from the ground he's a pussycat to handle and much easier than my TB.

Puts weight on too easily and can only ever have 3 hours a day max on the grass. Also, sugar blows his brains so need to be mindful of that too as he can become exlposive on a sugar high.

He has massive character and something of a local heart -throb!! Not for everyone, but personally I wouldn't think twice about having another PRE although he'll be with me until; he breathes his last.

 

[Cortez]

Wow. What a perfectly ridiculous statement you have made. In your opinion, what were they bred for?

What is ridiculous about my statement, pray? Spanish horses were originally bred to be war horses, to work bulls and cattle, to be the mounts of Kings and noblemen, to work in the manege, perform airs, be brave, trainable, live in a hot, dry country on poor rations. Oh, and be very beautiful as well .

 

[tallyho!]

What is ridiculous about my statement, pray? Spanish horses were originally bred to be war horses, to work bulls and cattle,

Yes, exactly, on nearly every terrain imaginable and many did in this country

to be the mounts of Kings and noblemen, to work in the menage, perform airs, be brave, trainable, live in a hot, dry country on poor rations.

They were given as gifts to kings and noblemen as the best horses to go hunting with. Henceforth the TB and many other crosses which used the spanish horse to improve it for hunting, jumping and war. Thank the Arab for speed.

They can live anywhere. They are just horses. Mine lives in Somerset quite happily Many horses evolved in hot dry countries on meagre rations. They were not bred to do it. It just happened over time without the intervention of man except the men that let the barbs and jennets loose on the plains while they argued over to whom Spain belonged to.

I don't claim to be an historian on the subject, I am not but I do believe that this particular breed was in fact systematically BRED for the military. Hence Yeguada Militar. But it's evolution was far from any planned breeding programme until YM came about. Not every spanish horse was selected for YM. Some were farmers horses and kept on farms for cattle and simply bred to sell on, keeping on as working horses with influence from the great stallions of YM. Anyway, there is book on the whole matter which I read and can only recall excerpts but enough to challenge you on your assumptions of what this horse was bred for.

Modern breeds far outclass this little Iberian horse in terms of jumping at burghley, or with the Heythropp nowadays with massive Irish Draughts (also, improved with Spanish blood)... but in it's day, it was the best there was.

I challenge any "modern" breed to do this though... and this is a Luso btw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5895K-Xjupk

 

[Cortez]

The Yeguada Militar has not, in fact, been around for very long (40's), and has led the way in 'modernising' the PRE by specifically breeding out the subconvex profile, going for a taller, leggier type with flatter movement. Not my cup of tea, but luckily the old 'baroque' style is still being bred. It is the Yeguada Militar because it is administered by the army, not because the horses were bred for use by the army - it came into being after mechanisation. Spanish horses were not bred to go hunting with, they were bred as "the best horse for a King to ride on the day of his triumph", any king that hunted whilst riding one was hunting deer, the fox was only hunted after the enclosures of the 16th century which is why jumping started being a requirement. Spanish horses have been systmatically bred, and stud books maintained, for at least 600 years, they didn't just "evolve".

 

[Oberon]

Ha ha! That's a very impolite way of describing the typical old baroque type of deep-bodied, rounded outline. A very large majority of the PRE horses I have seen in the UK have been overweight (to say the least), in Spain you see fitter horses, but yes, they do tend to look a bit tubby in comparison with the more modern 'greyhound' outline of the TB

Apologies

What I meant was that the only PRE horse I have seen up close has been very rounded at the tummy.

It was rather pronounced to me.

One person told the owner the horse was overweight.

The owner was very insulted and stated that is the shape of the breed.

The horse didn't look too overweight to me - but a bit like Donkey from Shrek in shape.....

So I'm confused as to who was right

 

[Cortez]

Probably a little bit of both? I have one PRE who is very baroque and does look very donkey-ish in the tum departement 'though he's not actually porky, another who is less deep and round in the barrel is carrying more flesh than t'other at the moment but looks more slimline. A fat, baroque-type PRE can look like a blimp on legs!

 

[Oberon]

A fat, baroque-type PRE can look like a blimp on legs!

 

[tallyho!]

The Yeguada Militar has not, in fact, been around for very long (40's), and has led the way in 'modernising' the PRE by specifically breeding out the subconvex profile, going for a taller, leggier type with flatter movement. Not my cup of tea, but luckily the old 'baroque' style is still being bred. It is the Yeguada Militar because it is administered by the army, not because the horses were bred for use by the army - it came into being after mechanisation. Spanish horses were not bred to go hunting with, they were bred as "the best horse for a King to ride on the day of his triumph", any king that hunted whilst riding one was hunting deer, the fox was only hunted after the enclosures of the 16th century which is why jumping started being a requirement. Spanish horses have been systmatically bred, and stud books maintained, for at least 600 years, they didn't just "evolve".

Ok, maybe I am wrong there with the YM - I'll have to do my homework again. The Spanish did not evolve, I didn't say that. I said many horses evolved to live in hot countries but the evolution of the Spanish horse was by accident with the mixing of foreign blood with its natives. Instead of evolution, perhaps I should have used "came about". I don't know which bloodlines you are talking about but not every Spanish horse was bred to prance around carrying Kings and Queens like you portray. Some were brought over here to hunt, draw carriages and be studs. They certainly hunted in America with the Plains Indians. I think you have sadly limited the breed short of it's true capabilities especially when comparing 6ft hedges! My 15.3 cob may not jump it, but you can't say he wasn't bred for hunting!

 

[Cortez]

Oh Spanish horses can do anything their riders want them to, and enjoy doing so immensely, but they wern't bred to do alot of those things, and they were never specifically bred to hunt, unlike our own Irish horses which were most certainly selected for said slopping about in mud and heaving themselves over the fixed stuff. By the time the Native Americans were riding, the horses were mustangs, not Spanish. I wouldn't shortchange any breed, especially my darling PRE's, simply pointing out that there are horses for courses and some do have a job description.

 

[The wife]

We've just broken 2 in... I'll admit they were absolute nightmares to start off with... Unco-operative, difficult, stubborn and obnoxious, 1 even fractured my cheek bone from rearing and striking out. However, after a week of them being with us, they were absolutely fantastic. They are so bright, intelligent, willing and overal lovely animals. They pick up school work quicker than anything I have ever broken in before and find lateral work so easy. Just don't pick fights. They'll work amazingly with you if you work with them and get them on side.

 

[Oberon]

Sounds just like Arabs

I'll be the first to admit my riding ability would fall too short for a PRE though