Talk to me about PSSM

Miss_Millie said:
Sorry to hear this Sarah. How long is he stabled for per day?
Click to expand...
Usually from 4/4.30pm until 8.30am.
SEL said:
Winter won't be helping - I've got 3 fed up horses (& 1 human!) at the moment.

You'll have the usual call out fee then a charge for taking the blood plus the lab fees. I think I paid £150 last time but can't remember if it was a free call out day
Click to expand...
Ah okay thank you, not as much as I was expecting
 
I have a horse who was quite an aggressive biter when I got him from Germany. I think his diet was a lot of concentrates and not much hay so he was always hungry. He's still protective around food but sticks to pulling a face now. He's gets adlib hay here but I think he's remained worried. He gets worse the more people are in his stable and is better if you remove hay as there's nothing to defend, he's not hungry now just protective.

Hope you get to the bottom of it and it's nothing serious.
 
nutjob said:
I have a horse who was quite an aggressive biter when I got him from Germany. I think his diet was a lot of concentrates and not much hay so he was always hungry. He's still protective around food but sticks to pulling a face now. He's gets adlib hay here but I think he's remained worried. He gets worse the more people are in his stable and is better if you remove hay as there's nothing to defend, he's not hungry now just protective.

Hope you get to the bottom of it and it's nothing serious.
Click to expand...
This is what my physio was suggesting. I think I mentioned before that he’s bottom of the herd so often gets pushed off the hay in the field, even though there’s multiple piles, so he probably does come in very hungry.

I think I’m just really worried after the reaction this evening - not only because I don’t want him to be in any sort of discomfort and it upsets me to think that he is but also because, whilst I am his main handler, other people do handle him on occasion for me and I don’t want anyone else getting hurt.
 
Dave's Mam said:
This may be being very simplistic, but like you say, could he just be "Hangry"? I find that during winter, Dave is much more amenable if he has time to eat some hay in peace for an hour before I do anything with him.
Click to expand...

I do that too. My horse has hay in the field, but who knows if he's been eating before he came in. He could've been dozing, running around, grooming his friend, and so on. I like to make sure he's got some forage in there before working.


I might've missed something, but is the aggression only in his stable?
 
CanteringCarrot said:
I do that too. My horse has hay in the field, but who knows if he's been eating before he came in. He could've been dozing, running around, grooming his friend, and so on. I like to make sure he's got some forage in there before working.


I might've missed something, but is the aggression only in his stable?
Click to expand...
Yeah he’s an absolute gem outside of his stable. You can do just about anything with him
scats said:
My friends cob is winter aggressive in the stable. He’s a gem in the summer but he’s very stable aggressive and grumpy in winter.

Sorry if I’ve missed this and it’s been discussed, but could he have ulcers?
Click to expand...
It was mentioned and it is on my list of things to investigate. He’s had a lot to deal with in the space of 18 months so he very well could have them brought on by stress or lack of forage from this winter. He shows no other signs apart from the aggression and lack of forwardness in ridden work.
 
J_sarahd said:
I’m going to ring the vets tomorrow and get them to come out asap. Does anyone know how much it costs to get their bloods done? I’ve never had to do it before (about one of the only things at this point 😂)

Thank you - I think once I find and fix/manage whatever’s going on, he will be a really fun little pony as he is so sweet, eager to please and is already fun (or was before all of this kicked off).
Click to expand...
It will probably cost a couple of hundred or so, but you may as well get them to test for everything you can think of while they are at it. As a minimum, PSSM, Selenium and Vit E levels, Liver function. Look at it as ruling stuff out, it will save money, time and worry in the long run.
 
Landcruiser said:
It will probably cost a couple of hundred or so, but you may as well get them to test for everything you can think of while they are at it. As a minimum, PSSM, Selenium and Vit E levels, Liver function. Look at it as ruling stuff out, it will save money, time and worry in the long run.
Click to expand...
I'd add manganese as well.

It's not something I'd ever considered but the German nutritionist on the pssm pages has had a lot of success supplementing when horses blood test low. It sounds like another deficiency that can present with muscle soreness.
 
I'm Dun said:
Yup. I think the chance of PSSM being at the root of this is very small.
Click to expand...
PSSM1 horses are more likely to have ulcers. My horse showed signs when I'd upped the work. Not badly, just turning head to girth when tightening or when mounted and moving away when I took him to the mounting block, that sort of thing, but the signs were there.

I don't suppose you'd be open to looking for a 24/7 turnout option? If it was PSSM, then more turnout would be beneficial anyway, but I can never see a downside to increasing turnout regardless. Appreciate it might not be an option, though.
 
Is it likely that ulcers could potentially cause him to only be reactive in the stable?

Just had to rush up and feed him cause his breakfast got missed and we were out of the stable and he was so docile - I was able to check his temperature under his rug and give him a pat whilst he was eating. If I do that in the stable, I’ll get flattened ears at the bare minimum.

Obviously could be the fact his tummy was fuller than when he comes in of a night. Sadly, we can’t change to 24/7 turnout yet as the fields are still so boggy but my YM and I have spoken about aiming to have ours out on 15th March (weather dependent)
 
Landcruiser said:
It will probably cost a couple of hundred or so, but you may as well get them to test for everything you can think of while they are at it. As a minimum, PSSM, Selenium and Vit E levels, Liver function. Look at it as ruling stuff out, it will save money, time and worry in the long run.
Click to expand...
absolutely. If you don't rule out vit e now you will be left wondering. If you are paying for a vet to come out and take blood if will be more cost effective to get everything to rule stuff out .

J_sarahd said:
Is it likely that ulcers could potentially cause him to only be reactive in the stable?

Just had to rush up and feed him cause his breakfast got missed and we were out of the stable and he was so docile - I was able to check his temperature under his rug and give him a pat whilst he was eating. If I do that in the stable, I’ll get flattened ears at the bare minimum.
Click to expand...

no idea about ulcers as my vet wouldn't test. Didn't think it necessary. That was whilst he was in a horse hospital and I asked for it.
However I do get the flying at me with bared teeth in the stable but fine outside. I know I have to double check my vit e iu's and always find I have been negligent.:rolleyes:


I don't know why I get bad behaviour inside for this but not outside.
 
J_sarahd said:
Is it likely that ulcers could potentially cause him to only be reactive in the stable?

Just had to rush up and feed him cause his breakfast got missed and we were out of the stable and he was so docile - I was able to check his temperature under his rug and give him a pat whilst he was eating. If I do that in the stable, I’ll get flattened ears at the bare minimum.

Obviously could be the fact his tummy was fuller than when he comes in of a night. Sadly, we can’t change to 24/7 turnout yet as the fields are still so boggy but my YM and I have spoken about aiming to have ours out on 15th March (weather dependent)
Click to expand...

Definitely. Ulcers can be responsible for some really odd behaviour. My vets are always sure to rule out ulcers as the cause of lameness in workups now too, as they can affect the horse's way of going. I'm sorry you got bitten, it really bloody hurts! Thank God you were wearing layers.
 
paddy555 said:
no idea about ulcers as my vet wouldn't test. Didn't think it necessary. That was whilst he was in a horse hospital and I asked for it.
Click to expand...

I always find these sorts of situations odd. So your vet just refused a service you asked for? I've genuinely never had that happen, however outside the box something I ask for, and if it did I'd be fuming and bare minimum change practices. The worst I've had is 'that's not usually something we'd start with, but if you definitely want to we can'.
 
IrishMilo said:
I always find these sorts of situations odd. So your vet just refused a service you asked for? I've genuinely never had that happen, however outside the box something I ask for, and if it did I'd be fuming and bare minimum change practices. The worst I've had is 'that's not usually something we'd start with, but if you definitely want to we can'.
Click to expand...
they didn't think it necessary, I didn't jump up and down and demand that they were wrong and must do it. I was far from fuming and it was a horse hospital not a local practice. I accepted what they told me. I have several times said to vets that I think we should do something, some test or other and they have said no with an explanation. Why would I fume? they have given their advice and I have accepted it after explanation/consideration. Vice versa I have asked if we can do/give something without testing and they have agreed or not if it was inappropriate.

Ultimately they proved to be right about the not scoping although they didn't pinpoint the problem which was vit e def. It took me a long time afterwards to do that because absolutely no vet even suggested it even though we were blood testing monthly in desperation. Fortunately I then read the Steph Valberg stuff, 24 hours later he was on high dose E and a month later the difference was remarkable

ETA we didn't blood test for vit e. This was 11 or so years ago, I had no idea one could test for vit E. If I had known it was a possibility I would have tested. (now I would test Se as well)
 
So he is being scoped and having his bloods done next week and I had a conversation with two people at my yard which is the sole reason I feel stupid. They basically told me he is aggressive in the stable because I’m too soft on him and I need to assert my authority better - back him up as soon as I bet in the stable, he’s “testing boundaries” and trying to make himself above me in the herd. Someone else said that it’s because the honeymoon period has ran out.

Obviously, I don’t believe any of it and I know I’m doing the right thing. But I just feel like they’re like oh there she is, the massive pony patter who can’t have a horse for 3 months without calling the vet.

I know I’m putting his health first but I just needed a rant because it really upset me.
 
Been there. Mine was bucking going into canter suddenly, no reason I could think of.

Got the vet who was unsure so I sent him in for a work up. People told me I was bein silly, he is going through the "Kevins" as was only backws 3 ish years before.

Vet found a huge blooming keratoma, if left would have broken his pedal bone it was that big.

So the end to my story, stuff em. We listen, of I hadn't of listened to him I would of had a dead horse
 
J_sarahd said:
So he is being scoped and having his bloods done next week and I had a conversation with two people at my yard which is the sole reason I feel stupid. They basically told me he is aggressive in the stable because I’m too soft on him and I need to assert my authority better - back him up as soon as I bet in the stable, he’s “testing boundaries” and trying to make himself above me in the herd. Someone else said that it’s because the honeymoon period has ran out.

Obviously, I don’t believe any of it and I know I’m doing the right thing. But I just feel like they’re like oh there she is, the massive pony patter who can’t have a horse for 3 months without calling the vet.

I know I’m putting his health first but I just needed a rant because it really upset me.
Click to expand...
Rant away!

Literally every time my gut has said I need a vet something has shown up. Remember getting sarky comments when I had the Appy scoped because she was fat. Lots of onlookers on the day all happy to see me proved wrong but no one apologised when the vet started to point out problems on the scope.

Your horse is lucky to have a human who listens
 
Yes horses do try and test new boundaries, but they don't go to such extreme measures as to bite when touched imo for no reason. A bit pushy maybe but not such aggression
Stand your ground and ignore the advisors
 
J_sarahd said:
They basically told me he is aggressive in the stable because I’m too soft on him and I need to assert my authority better - back him up as soon as I bet in the stable, he’s “testing boundaries” and trying to make himself above me in the herd. Someone else said that it’s because the honeymoon period has ran out.
Click to expand...

I feel desperately sorry for the horses who try to communicate subtly, get ignored, have to shout, and then get smacked upside the head for it. Be proud of yourself that you’re not one of these people!
 
Thank you. I just felt a bit ostracised for actually listening to my horse. I tried to explain that horses don’t just start launching at people over doors and biting them, or refuse to really move in the school for the lols - especially if it’s out of nowhere and a complete change to their normal behaviour. I tried to explain that almost every thing a horse does is communication, but I was just met with the old school “show them who’s boss” attitude and I just don’t have time for it. I’d much rather overthink and the vet find nothing than have an unhappy, distressed horse in pain. But then again, I do watch their horses (and listen to the way they speak about them) and it all adds up.
 
I learned a long time ago not to discuss my horse’s veterinary issues with other liveries. I have 1 or 2 trusted friends I might bounce ideas off, but the last time I booked a lameness work-up I didn’t tell anyone as knew there’d be comments of ‘going looking for problems’.

I find it incredibly depressing that those of us who try and listen to our horses are in the minority. I see so many horses that display behaviours like this and it’s put down to ‘grumpiness’ or ‘being a mare’. Your pony sounds like he couldn’t be shouting any louder that something is wrong, that level of aggression isn’t normal at all. Well done for doing right by him and best of luck with the vets next week🤞🏼
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top