Nocturnal
Well-Known Member
Feel sorry for those peoples’ horses. Still so many people around like them. I have noticed an improvement over the last 5 years, but still so far to go.
Talk to me about PSSM
- Thread starter J_sarahd
- Start date
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Things I've had said to me over 40 years.
He needs a man on him. (Dressage judge) Horse had kissing spines.
He's just aTB. (Very experienced trainer) Horse had neck arthritis in the entire bottom half of his neck.
He's just cold backed. (Vet) Horse had terminal kidney failure.
He's just riggy and mounting mares, that's why he's thin. (Very experienced yard owner) Same horse as above, kidney failure.
Horse is sound, you're fussing about nothing (vet hospital) Horse had deformed pasterns on both hind legs.
Horse is sound, he just carries his tail to the right. (Everyone. ) Also "carrying" an SI injury, it turned out.
You've got this Sarah. He's a lucky boy to be with you.
He needs a man on him. (Dressage judge) Horse had kissing spines.
He's just aTB. (Very experienced trainer) Horse had neck arthritis in the entire bottom half of his neck.
He's just cold backed. (Vet) Horse had terminal kidney failure.
He's just riggy and mounting mares, that's why he's thin. (Very experienced yard owner) Same horse as above, kidney failure.
Horse is sound, you're fussing about nothing (vet hospital) Horse had deformed pasterns on both hind legs.
Horse is sound, he just carries his tail to the right. (Everyone. ) Also "carrying" an SI injury, it turned out.
You've got this Sarah. He's a lucky boy to be with you.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
It's these people who will be out jumping every weekend with no clue that their horse is 4/10th lame behind. I really struggle to be on livery yards these days, I'm not good at keeping shtum and have gotten myself into some real barneys over the years for it. I've had to work very hard over the last year to not wave on a giant banner to a few people 'YOUR HORSE IS LAME ~ PLEASE GET THE VET!'.
Fieldlife
Well-Known Member
It is complex sometimes too. I know several horses that pull faces before during & after girth done up.
Past history of ulcers, back pain, poor saddle fit, but I know several horses still reacting years after issues resolved. Yet if distracted by a treat cube or person at the same time they don’t even flinch. Some pain responses are learnt or anticipatory. It’s complicated.
Past history of ulcers, back pain, poor saddle fit, but I know several horses still reacting years after issues resolved. Yet if distracted by a treat cube or person at the same time they don’t even flinch. Some pain responses are learnt or anticipatory. It’s complicated.
J_sarahd
Well-Known Member
Just dropped him off at the vets and cried all the way home because it all just felt too familiar.
He has a sign outside his stable warning people he is a biter, which I understand but also feel desperately sad that my once easy going, labrador pony is resorting to biting.
The more research I’ve done, the more I’ve come to realise that (as bad as this sounds) best case scenario is low grade squamous ulcers caused by lack of forage, especially before being ridden. So I can treat them and be meticulous with my management. I think, despite having had ulcer prone horses before, my management slipped a bit because he wasn’t the least bit ulcery when he came to me - which I’m fully holding my hands up to and admitting I have made a potentially huge mistake.
Hopefully tomorrow will come with some answers and hopefully they will be easy to digest ones. And hopefully I can sleep tonight without too much anxiety.
Exasperated
Well-Known Member
Might have missed this, but presuming your PSSM 1 hair test was negative? Type(s) 2 more problematic, but at least fingers x’d for ulcers rather than any PSSM.
Hope you are lucky!
J_sarahd
Well-Known Member
Yes PSSM1 was negative. Thank you - I would really like to think I’m due some good luck with horses this time round
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
What a cute face he has! Keeping my fingers crossed for you that it’s something benign. What are they testing for at the hospital?
J_sarahd
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I know, he just looks so much like a baby still.
Gastroscope first and then doing bloods for any deficiencies and liver/kidney function. But who knows, we may end up doing a whole performance work up…
My gut (no pun intended) is telling me its ulcers and my gut never failed me with Nova.
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
Fingers crossed you get treatable answers. I think most of us have had those kind of responses from other liveries. Thankfully at current yard, few people would try this with me. The last person had strips torn off them and I told them that thankfully they didn't even feature on the list of people whose opinions I gave a flying f*ck about. Even a close friend got short shrift when she told me I was looking for problems with my elderly mare (which were later verified by the vet).
Glad you've stuck to your guns and followed your instincts.
Glad you've stuck to your guns and followed your instincts.
J_sarahd
Well-Known Member
I think people just think I’m a massive overthinker - which I am but so far, I’ve not been wrong. I’m on a yard with some very old school owners and some very novice owners and sometimes, I feel for their horses. I said to my friend that I will always, always put pain at the top of my list when behaviour or performance changes. Some time in the future this philosophy of mine may be a waste of time and money, but I’d rather waste time and money than push a potentially uncomfortable horse. We are already so privileged to own them, let alone ride them, the least we can do is listen to them.Fingers crossed you get treatable answers. I think most of us have had those kind of responses from other liveries. Thankfully at current yard, few people would try this with me. The last person had strips torn off them and I told them that thankfully they didn't even feature on the list of people whose opinions I gave a flying f*ck about. Even a close friend got short shrift when she told me I was looking for problems with my elderly mare (which were later verified by the vet).
Glad you've stuck to your guns and followed your instincts.
J_sarahd
Well-Known Member
So now I’ve had some time to digest what’s happened, I thought I’d update.
Gastroscope was clean - which is good. But then the vet was obviously at a bit of a loss as to his behaviour so did a lameness work up and noticed he was lame on bilaterally behind, but worse on his RH. Long story short, he has had his hocks injected.
She says the aggression could be resource guarding and it may be worth putting him on his own in the field and seeing if that helps the aggression or whether the relief of pain in the hocks will help. I guess that’s just a waiting game/trial and error.
I have cried a lot today. I am so sad and feel like I’ve gone back in time. I’m glad I’ve found something I can help manage but I’m also massively having a pity party. I don’t really know what our future looks like and I’m trying to find positive stories but realistically, it was the hope that destroyed me the most with Nova.
Gastroscope was clean - which is good. But then the vet was obviously at a bit of a loss as to his behaviour so did a lameness work up and noticed he was lame on bilaterally behind, but worse on his RH. Long story short, he has had his hocks injected.
She says the aggression could be resource guarding and it may be worth putting him on his own in the field and seeing if that helps the aggression or whether the relief of pain in the hocks will help. I guess that’s just a waiting game/trial and error.
I have cried a lot today. I am so sad and feel like I’ve gone back in time. I’m glad I’ve found something I can help manage but I’m also massively having a pity party. I don’t really know what our future looks like and I’m trying to find positive stories but realistically, it was the hope that destroyed me the most with Nova.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
You are such an amazing owner, he's very lucky to have you. It's so hard that you're going through this, sending a big virtual hug.
Resource guarding is a funny one...I've researched it a lot myself, and my conclusion so far is that it can be caused by 1. a learned fear and anxiety of not having enough to eat, but 2. it can also be a secondary symptom of pain or discomfort somewhere - if the horse is physically 'off' in some way then they just don't cope with little things that other horses would usually be chill about, like a human or another horse approaching them whilst they're eating.
It might be worth trying a hindgut supplement like Equishure, simply because the scope can't see down into the hind gut. I really hope you get some solid answers soon.
Resource guarding is a funny one...I've researched it a lot myself, and my conclusion so far is that it can be caused by 1. a learned fear and anxiety of not having enough to eat, but 2. it can also be a secondary symptom of pain or discomfort somewhere - if the horse is physically 'off' in some way then they just don't cope with little things that other horses would usually be chill about, like a human or another horse approaching them whilst they're eating.
It might be worth trying a hindgut supplement like Equishure, simply because the scope can't see down into the hind gut. I really hope you get some solid answers soon.
Landcruiser
Well-Known Member
Did they do the bloods anyway?
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
Did they xray his hocks to be certain its that?
Fieldlife
Well-Known Member
X-rays of hocks aren’t certainty of diagnosis of hock arthritis. Can be misleading in either direction.
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Hopefully the injections make a difference and solve your problem. So sorry that you're going through this. You're a great horse owner, and he's lucky to have you because you listen to him.
Edit: decided to be more concise!
Edit: decided to be more concise!
Last edited:
SEL
Well-Known Member
My Appy was an orphan foal and was downright nasty as a youngster with her anxiety over food. I still spread hay out in multiple piles in the field to avoid drama and I don't think I'll ever stop being hyper aware around her in her stable even though she's been generally pleasant to be around for years now. But I at least know her background and understand why she was like she was.
Its a particularly horrible time of year for those who suffer with food anxiety so you might find it improves soon.
Very hopeful the hock injections make a difference - do you have a good physio on board?
Its a particularly horrible time of year for those who suffer with food anxiety so you might find it improves soon.
Very hopeful the hock injections make a difference - do you have a good physio on board?
ycbm
Overwhelmed
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry. That's very upsetting. You've had enough of a tough time with the previous one. You don't deserve this.
palo1
Well-Known Member
Hocks are definitely not the worst case scenario for a good longer term recovery and a life of enjoying and benefitting from ridden work (obviously with the caveat that it depends on a few things) . Can you discuss this a bit more with a specialist? It's really tough to digest but more information might be really helpful for you.
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
I know, i had mine xrayed and showed a good amount of changes but the lameness was actually coming from his stifle which we found via nerve blocks.
Which is why I am not a fan of injecting without scans and nerveblocks
Hope the injections help Sarah x
scats
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear that. Millie had her hocks injected with arthramid (along with her front pasterns) and I was told she would 100% return to hacking but may not manage schooling. She’s now been back schooling for 2 years and feels better than ever. I’m hoping to get her back out doing a bit of dressage this year.
I’ve got everything crossed for you x
I’ve got everything crossed for you x
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
I don't know why but Connemaras seem to have something that makes them genetically susceptable to hock OA (if I'm remembering his breeding correctly).
It's nothing you've done, I've had a couple of 6 year olds with it and know a handful more Connies with it. Hopefully, it's a simple case of needing a bit of treatment every now and again and you can enjoy him!
I'd definitely make sure he's not hungry too just to cover all bases.
It's nothing you've done, I've had a couple of 6 year olds with it and know a handful more Connies with it. Hopefully, it's a simple case of needing a bit of treatment every now and again and you can enjoy him!
I'd definitely make sure he's not hungry too just to cover all bases.
J_sarahd
Well-Known Member
Thank you everyone. It is good to read some success stories and realise that whilst yes it’s utterly rubbish, it’s not as rubbish as it could be. Hopefully we can eventually do what I want together - I know obviously jumping causes more wear and tear on the hocks anyway (not that I would ever jump big or a lot) - but I’ve had nearly 3 years of not really jumping so I’m happy to just get to a level of work he is happy and comfortable with.
The more I think about it, the more I am kicking myself for not connecting the dots earlier. I think in one of my first threads about him I said how he was quite behind the leg and lazy, he has always lacked push from behind - which I was told is just because he’s weak - and jumping, whilst he never put a foot wrong, he just felt flat.
He was already much nicer this evening. I mostly left him alone in his stable as I know he’s had a stressful 24 hours, but even giving him his dinner was easier and I wasn’t greeted with his teeth in my face.
The more I think about it, the more I am kicking myself for not connecting the dots earlier. I think in one of my first threads about him I said how he was quite behind the leg and lazy, he has always lacked push from behind - which I was told is just because he’s weak - and jumping, whilst he never put a foot wrong, he just felt flat.
He was already much nicer this evening. I mostly left him alone in his stable as I know he’s had a stressful 24 hours, but even giving him his dinner was easier and I wasn’t greeted with his teeth in my face.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
You've been let down by everyone who advised you that he was just a weak young horse, Sarah. He's very lucky he has ended up with someone as caring as you. I hope he responds well to simple injections.
.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Jeez, we seem to be on similar paths having both had to PTS our horses then bought a young horse to then have huge problems. Mine is currently ataxic!
Nothing to add other than I'm very sorry but, I do think there are so many options for hocks now that it's not the end of the world at all even if it's hard to bear.
Nothing to add other than I'm very sorry but, I do think there are so many options for hocks now that it's not the end of the world at all even if it's hard to bear.
J_sarahd
Well-Known Member
Oh Michen I’m so sorry! Keeping my fingers crossed for you and Atlas. Hopefully we both get a break and some good luck soon
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
The thing is it could have just been a weak young horse, so you gave him time and gentle work and when there was no improvement you went straight to the vet. Not sure you could have done better than that. For what its worth I would take hocks over PSSM any time!
J_sarahd
Well-Known Member
Thank you - I guess you’re right. I didn’t push him - I spent more time doing groundwork and walk hacks than anything else (despite the fact he has apparently competed up to 80cm).
Is there a supplement etc anyone recommends? Or are they all a load of tosh?