Talk to me about TBs…

[Marigold4]

I've yet to meet a sound Connie

How many have you met?? I've had several and never met an unsound one.

 

[lauragreen85]

I love them! One of the best breeds! They are so sweet and kind

 

[RachelFerd]

about 20!

I've seen plenty out eventing which are obviously sound, but every one I've seen at a livery yard has had soundness issues, and when I worked at the veterinary lameness referral centre we used to see a *lot* there too.

I'm pretty sure it's to do with the sheer volume of low quality connies that are churned out by more unscrupulous breeders in Ireland and sold unbroken and fairly cheaply into the UK.

 

[IrishMilo]

More Connies have soundness issues than TBs?? Really? I've had 4 connies over the years with no soundness issues whatsoever.

I've owned and ridden a lot of Connies over the years. They were all either physically unsound or mentally unsound. I wouldn't have another as a long term horse for me. All of my TBs have been easier...

 

[Marigold4]

about 20!

I've seen plenty out eventing which are obviously sound, but every one I've seen at a livery yard has had soundness issues, and when I worked at the veterinary lameness referral centre we used to see a *lot* there too.

I'm pretty sure it's to do with the sheer volume of low quality connies that are churned out by more unscrupulous breeders in Ireland and sold unbroken and fairly cheaply into the UK.

I've obviously been lucky then. My 4 have been very sane, very sound and happy characters up for anything. They've been a doddle to back. I bought 3 as projects and sold on (2 to the same family) and they hunt, event, bareback showjumping. I stay in touch and they have none of them had a day's sickness. The one I kept was with me till 22 and was never lame - an absolute star at showjumping and very much missed.

 

[Amye]

I've had about a dozen in past years and I love them but they can have some issues.

Since hacking is your thing insist on trying it on a hack alone, which is something ex racers rarely do and can be quite a problem. Then try it in a group and try going first, going last and having another horse come past you. They can have completely diffeent personalities in each scenario.

My last one was an absolute angel in all scenarios ... except if he was on a path beside a strip of trees and a horse was cantering on the other side of the trees where he couldn't see it properly, when he became quite a handful.
.

Thank you for the advice! Will definitely check the hacking if I go view. I have at least walked down the lane with the horses I’ve viewed so far.
Haha my WB would not stand for horses cantering on the other side of a tree line so that wouldn’t be unusual for me!

Feet were fairy awful. Flattish, not good strong horn like ponies tend to have. Standardbreds, however, the ones I've seen, tend to have good feet.

Haha we must’ve been unlucky with my mums standy as she had not great feet when she came to us!

To be honest if I was a single horse owner I wouldn't take a risk on one unless I knew its history. i also wouldnt' be keen on doing a five star vetting on a cheap horse. I've gone the x-ray/check-everything route on exracers in the past, and I still ended up retiring a few due to various issues like neck arthritis/sciatica/tendons that couldn't have been picked up during the original vetting.

If I was in your position with a low budget i'd only go for a horse through word of mouth. or else i'd take a risk and get one with a good temperament, but decide a figure for vets bill/physio etc and draw the line and pts if it went over that.

Thank you that’s very interesting! I’ve always been one to vet as I don’t feel like I have a good enough eye to spot things myself but I can see where you’re coming from with a cheaper horse.

I don’t have too low a budget I don’t think - I can definitely afford more then the ex-racers I’ve seen advertised, it’s not really the price, I just wanted to see if I should still consider them.

Ultimately, I adore him. He’s got so much character and when things come together I feel so lucky to have him in my life. I will say that when I tried him he’d been off the track for several years and was quiet and calm as a lamb. His personality changed when he moved yards and he’s gradually settling but it’s taken a lot of work, so just be mindful that when you view one, they could be very different when you get them home. I’m lucky to have a lot of support and experience at my yard, so even though he’s my first TB, I feel confident building our partnership and dealing with his “special moments” because I’ve had so much help.

Hope that helps!

Oh, and I did have x-rays of his back and a five stage vetting.

Thank you that is very helpful! I do have some nice, supportive people on my yard if I needed them!

If there are some that you like the sound of I'd go and try them and meet them. A tb could certainly do what you're looking for and no reason to rule them out or treat the any differently to any other horse.

This is definitely what I’m thinking thank you

Non-racing TBs I'd say essentially consider like any other breed, treat them on their own merits.
Ex-racers or those that have been in training have plenty of pro's but also a number of cons.
You need to consider their early years, NH types might have had it pretty good for an increased chance of longevity, but flat types can draw the short straw - they are often prepped for sales from a young age (feed, stabling, walker, lunging - often from yearlings) and are often backed 18 months/2 years. So whilst they may be well handled and seen a lot it can take a real toll on their bodies and brains.

In your situation I'd say don't discount a TB but don't leap into something straight off the track. If its finished racing sound and gone and done another job for a bit and is open to trial and vetting then take a look

Thank you that’s really helpful! I’m definitely wanting something that has has done something after racing - wouldn’t feel confident enough for something straight off the track!

Suppose it's finding who you get on with rather than what you get on with if that makes sense..

That is true!

Why not approach a rehoming stable? The horses will have been checked over for physical problems and have had some re=training.

I have had some Owners Group horses and a couple of those have been retired and have proved to be wonderful riding horses for their new owners.

I hadn’t thought of that.. thanks!

TBs are definitely the best type…. I currently have a beautiful french tb.
If you are looking for one I cannot recommend Solway Racehorses highly enough

Thank you I shall have a look

why not look at ex polo ponies. Often Part TB but more laid back as they get older

I hadn’t even thought of it! Though years ago I did used to ride an ex-polo pony and she was so much fun!

I'm personally a fan of horses who have stood up to a bit of racing. I wouldn't be put off a horse that had never entered training, but I *would* be put off from a horse that had been in training but didn't run - of all of the problem TBs I've met, it has often been these ones - beware the statement 'too slow to ever race' as being synonymous with 'too lame to ever race.

Statistically lots of thoroughbreds will have kissing spines. And lots of those TBs with kissing spines will not be impacted by them if they're taught to work and use their bodies correctly. I wouldn't waste time x-raying potential purchases, but I would steer very clear of anything that shows pain on palpation or gives any feeling of being tricky to mount or cold-backed.

Thank you that’s very interesting as I wouldn’t have even thought of those descriptions!
Tbh I probably would’ve thought too slow was better meaning more laidback!

I'd also, having very recently been bitten by this one, be wary of the "he just lost the love for it" comment that you also hear quite often. What they mean is "he isn't running as fast as he used to but he's reached a stage in his career when it isn't worth the money to do any investigations to find out why". If you're lucky it will be a mental issue that will disappear in a private home, but it so often means an undiagnosed physical one.

Thank you that’s helpful!

The standy is only 5 but as close to bombproof as you would get, he's a bit grumpy at times but they are an incredibly under-rated breed, very hardy and has excellent feet.

My mum has a standy and she is lovely! Great temperament and she is very good to hack. I took her out the other day, alpacas were messing about and she just stood and watched, lovely. My boy hates alpacas!
You don’t see many for sale though (or I haven’t come across many while I’ve been looking) but I would definitely consider them if I saw one. The pacing is interesting though haha.

 

[Amye]

Thank you everyone it’s been really interesting reading your replies and experiences!

I think I definitely won’t discount them like I have been, I might not actively look for only TBs but if one ticks the boxes I will go look!

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Thank you everyone it’s been really interesting reading your replies and experiences!

I think I definitely won’t discount them like I have been, I might not actively look for only TBs but if one ticks the boxes I will go look!

I've already replied up thread but your sentence ' might not actively look fir a tb' made me smile! I had had several tb's over the years. When I was looking for the horse I have now I looked at all sorts. All breeds. Nothing was sound, or it had lumps and bumps, or it chucked me off on viewing. I went to see a tb, sound and a lovely ride, so he came home!!

 

[Lexi 123]

I know of more Connie’s that have soundness issues than TBs

I have an Irish draught horse that is pretty terrible soundness wise she only 14 years old. She has arthritis in back legs and her spine and jaw also has an old tendon injury that we only recently Noticed vet thinks she just aggravate it she had in her front leg . I think I be lucky if she makes it to 25 . She has only developed theses within a year.
I know tb that’s in his late twenties and is still winning competitions.

 

[Amye]

hello I’m back! I was wondering if I could pick your brains a little more.

I went to see an ex-racer the other day, he was very sweet and lovely and I did like him! I am still on the fence ever so slightly due to his size (he is 16hh and I am used to a bit more chunk so he is different to what im used to). But he felt very nice to ride so I did get a good feeling from him.

I’ve been looking up his background as a racer and wondering if it’s a good or bad sign?
He is a French TB, from what I can gather he came over here in May or June 2022 (his last race in France May 2022 and first race in UK June 2022). He only raced over here 6 times and last race was end of July 2022. He was 9yo when he finished racing so seemed like a long career? And, from what I can see, he didn’t start till he was 3yo (I take as good sign? From a small google it seems they do start a little later in France?). Im not sure why he retired (my next question to the person selling him, if they know) but he won his last 2 races it seems but was DQ from his last race and placed 2nd.

He has been in his current home since May 2023 and they bought him to bring on and sell. I’m not sure if the gap between his last race and them buying him is a sign he may have been injured and needed rest? Someone said that it would be strange for them to hang on to a horse for long after it had retired.

I am hopefully going back for a second viewing at the weekend to take him for a longer hack. My biggest concerns are the possible wear on his body from a long career and KS (as I’ve said previously). I am in 2 minds as, I don’t want to get a horse that may break in a year or two, so not sure if an ex-racer is for me. But he does tick a lot of boxes!

 

[Goldenstar]

You need a five stage vetting and should discuss with the vet having X-rays as part of that .

I bought a very cheap TB out a field one spring he had been injured he had a run a lot from two to eight years he Was meat price .
He hunted did riding club eventing dressage hacking just everything and he worked till he was 24 .
I have also had the other sort it’s very hit and miss .
I still own a TB he did low level stiff and I think he’s 20 now he’s retired because his heart murmer worsened he had delicate feet and poor teeth but he’s lived his life well .

 

[ycbm]

I would definitely assume from the fact that he was winning right up to the end, and the long gap before selling, that he was injured in his last race and they gave him time to come right but decided that his age and the injury were against a successful return, and sold. But that doesn't necessarily make him unfit for a less physically stressful life in a private home, though you should get a good 5 stage vetting and at that age and with that history I would go for x rays if you can afford them. My last one would have passed a 5 stage, as far as that can be done on an unfit horse, on the day I bought him, but would have failed catastrophically with an x ray of his left fore fetlock, which showed advanced arthritis secondary to an unhealed sesamoid bone fracture several years old. You will be in a better place vetting a horse that's actually in work.
.

 

[Amye]

You need a five stage vetting and should discuss with the vet having X-rays as part of that .

I bought a very cheap TB out a field one spring he had been injured he had a run a lot from two to eight years he Was meat price .
He hunted did riding club eventing dressage hacking just everything and he worked till he was 24 .
I have also had the other sort it’s very hit and miss .
I still own a TB he did low level stiff and I think he’s 20 now he’s retired because his heart murmer worsened he had delicate feet and poor teeth but he’s lived his life well .

Yes will definitely be getting a vetting done regardless. And I was debating x-rays too due to his age.

I would definitely assume from the fact that he was winning right up to the end, and the long gap before selling, that he was injured in his last race and they gave him time to come right but decided that his age and the injury were against a successful return, and sold. But that doesn't necessarily make him unfit for a less physically stressful life in a private home, though you should get a good 5 stage vetting and at that age and with that history I would go for x rays if you can afford them. My last one would have passed a 5 stage, as far as that can be done on an unfit horse, on the day I bought him, but would have failed catastrophically with an x ray of his left fore fetlock, which showed advanced arthritis secondary to an unhealed sesamoid bone fracture several years old. You will be in a better place vetting a horse that's actually in work.
.

Thank you, that is reassuring. He has been in work since they bought him as far as I know, I have videos of him from as far back as last summer. I will definitely be getting a 5 stage vetting and I was debating x-rays too due to his history. I would have to speak to my vet to see how expensive they would be but I think I could afford them.

The annoying thing would be if he failed on the x-rays and then I’ve spent so much money and it eats into my buying fund haha. But that’s horses!!

 

[criso]

From a small google it seems they do start a little later in France?).

Not sure about that. I had a french tb who never raced but was with a trainer at 2. His sire ran over hurdles at 3 before going to stud which is younger than we would jump a national hunt horse here.

On the plus side, the person I bought him from who had spent time in the french cavalry before returning to England with horses to sell was a big fan of french horses (tb and SF) from a temperament point of view.

 

[IrishMilo]

What's his race name? I tend to avoid anything that's raced hard, or had very long gaps. Time is money in the race industry so there is always a reason they've had a long break.

 

[HopOnTrot]

I had one and he was the best hack, not the right horse for me and in retrospect I wonder if he had KS.

Some days he wouldn’t step over a pole on the floor but if you jumped every day he would fly 1m 10 with my incompetent arse onboard.

He was great at self harm, used to regularly step on his own hoof and once caused an arterial bleed. Which was fun.

 

[ihatework]

hello I’m back! I was wondering if I could pick your brains a little more.

I went to see an ex-racer the other day, he was very sweet and lovely and I did like him! I am still on the fence ever so slightly due to his size (he is 16hh and I am used to a bit more chunk so he is different to what im used to). But he felt very nice to ride so I did get a good feeling from him.

I’ve been looking up his background as a racer and wondering if it’s a good or bad sign?
He is a French TB, from what I can gather he came over here in May or June 2022 (his last race in France May 2022 and first race in UK June 2022). He only raced over here 6 times and last race was end of July 2022. He was 9yo when he finished racing so seemed like a long career? And, from what I can see, he didn’t start till he was 3yo (I take as good sign? From a small google it seems they do start a little later in France?). Im not sure why he retired (my next question to the person selling him, if they know) but he won his last 2 races it seems but was DQ from his last race and placed 2nd.

He has been in his current home since May 2023 and they bought him to bring on and sell. I’m not sure if the gap between his last race and them buying him is a sign he may have been injured and needed rest? Someone said that it would be strange for them to hang on to a horse for long after it had retired.

I am hopefully going back for a second viewing at the weekend to take him for a longer hack. My biggest concerns are the possible wear on his body from a long career and KS (as I’ve said previously). I am in 2 minds as, I don’t want to get a horse that may break in a year or two, so not sure if an ex-racer is for me. But he does tick a lot of boxes!

I think it’s possible to sometimes overthink things a bit.

For me the positives are he has run a number of times, seemingly in quickish succession and stayed sound enough to be up near the front.

He’s a racehorse. They don’t go on forever and inevitably they get injured. It par of the course. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t harbouring niggles. If this worries you DO NOT look at racehorses. Always keep a bit of budget for physio and vets, it’s likely you will need it. But the initial outlay to buy the horse will be cheaper.

Now that doesn’t mean that a fundamentally sound horse that’s picked up a routine injury is a write off.

Just ask the people selling what the injury and rehab was (if they are honest they will tell you) and what sort of ridden training he has been doing for the last year.

No major red flags for me here but you should vet, and don’t be surprised if you find something!

 

[Barton Bounty]

My tb that I just lost had a very successful career and finished racing at just before 8 years old. He had one lame period with an abscess and nothing else. Sound all through his life. However, tbs are prone to colic and have very sensitive stomachs which was my boys downfall.

What i am trying to say is , not every thoroughbred is held together with a piece of string.

 

[ihatework]

And just to add to my post there is a difference between 'sound' and 'sound for purpose'.

I see many many horses, all breeds, whose owners are adamant they are sound. Its usually because they are not noticeably lame. They often aren't sound, but the owner doesn't like to hear that. That said, I'm a believer in sound for function and whilst a horse/TB might not be sound enough to race any more that doesn't mean they cant have a useful second career

 

[Carrottom]

By the sound of it, he came over from France and had 6 races in very quick succession. This may have been to beat the handicapper. He may well have burnt out and needed a substantial break.
You don't say what type of races he was running in.
Some tbs thrive on that sort of workload but some don't recover enough to escape competitively again.

 

[humblepie]

DQ will mean he was demoted for interference most likely so nothing to do with him fitness or soundness related. It is interesting really as if he was a sports horse most likely you wouldn't be able to find out anything much about gaps. I wouldn't necessarily over think it and if you like him have him vetted then we can all follow your progress.

 

[Amye]

Not sure about that. I had a french tb who never raced but was with a trainer at 2. His sire ran over hurdles at 3 before going to stud which is older than we would jump a national hunt horse here.

On the plus side, the person I bought him from who had spent time in the french cavalry before returning to England with horses to sell was a big fan of french horses (tb and SF) from a temperament point of view.

Haha probably a bit of wishful thinking! This one I saw did seem to have a lovely temperament.

What's his race name? I tend to avoid anything that's raced hard, or had very long gaps. Time is money in the race industry so there is always a reason they've had a long break.

I’ll PM you. It seems like he had a couple of gaps, raced 58 times. And a very big gap but that was 2020 so I’m assuming Covid?

I had one and he was the best hack, not the right horse for me and in retrospect I wonder if he had KS.

Some days he wouldn’t step over a pole on the floor but if you jumped every day he would fly 1m 10 with my incompetent arse onboard.

He was great at self harm, used to regularly step on his own hoof and once caused an arterial bleed. Which was fun.

Haha thanks! These are some of my worries, I wish buying was easier!

I think it’s possible to sometimes overthink things a bit.

For me the positives are he has run a number of times, seemingly in quickish succession and stayed sound enough to be up near the front.

He’s a racehorse. They don’t go on forever and inevitably they get injured. It par of the course. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t harbouring niggles. If this worries you DO NOT look at racehorses. Always keep a bit of budget for physio and vets, it’s likely you will need it. But the initial outlay to buy the horse will be cheaper.

Now that doesn’t mean that a fundamentally sound horse that’s picked up a routine injury is a write off.

Just ask the people selling what the injury and rehab was (if they are honest they will tell you) and what sort of ridden training he has been doing for the last year.

No major red flags for me here but you should vet, and don’t be surprised if you find something!

I’m definitely an over thinker! Yeah that’s my next plan when I go see him again. I’m definitely going to vet whatever I buy! I don’t mind a niggle I guess, no horse is perfect and they work hard, but it depends if that’s going to mean I only have a couple of years then that’s a worry for me. I know any horse can break itself but I’d like to go in with the best odds. Which then makes me think maybe I shouldn’t go for an ex-racer, but then some do have long careers after racing too.. ha that’s me overthinking again!

My tb that I just lost had a very successful career and finished racing at just before 8 years old. He had one lame period with an abscess and nothing else. Sound all through his life. However, tbs are prone to colic and have very sensitive stomachs which was my boys downfall.

What i am trying to say is , not every thoroughbred is held together with a piece of string.

Ah so sorry to hear about your boy! That’s nice to hear he had a nice long career after racing though.
I know, I think people have made me fear that if I buy a TB that’s it, it’s going to have issues and it’s all a gamble. I mean buying a horse is a bit of a gamble anyway but you’ve just got to try and stack the odds in your favour as well as you can!

And just to add to my post there is a difference between 'sound' and 'sound for purpose'.

I see many many horses, all breeds, whose owners are adamant they are sound. Its usually because they are not noticeably lame. They often aren't sound, but the owner doesn't like to hear that. That said, I'm a believer in sound for function and whilst a horse/TB might not be sound enough to race any more that doesn't mean they cant have a useful second career

Very true! Just because they may not stand up to racing anymore doesn’t mean they can’t do something else. Im not looking to hammer any horse I own just have a bit of fun!

By the sound of it, he came over from France and had 6 races in very quick succession. This may have been to beat the handicapper. He may well have burnt out and needed a substantial break.
You don't say what type of races he was running in.
Some tbs thrive on that sort of workload but some don't recover enough to escape competitively again.

Yes that’s what I’ve managed to gather. He was running in hurdle and chase (is that steeplechase?)
I don’t know much about racing as you can tell!

DQ will mean he was demoted for interference most likely so nothing to do with him fitness or soundness related. It is interesting really as if he was a sports horse most likely you wouldn't be able to find out anything much about gaps. I wouldn't necessarily over think it and if you like him have him vetted then we can all follow your progress.

Ah thank you I did wonder that as it said he still placed 2nd.
And that is true! You have no idea if you buy another 10 yo what they may or may not have done and injuries they’ve had, unless the seller knows and is honest!
My last boy I bought at 14 and they had only had him 6 months so we didn’t know any of his history. He had one bout of lameness at about 17 and then was fine until his arthritis this last year. He is a solid type though. But he could have had anything in his past and I wouldn’t have known.

Thank you!

 

[ycbm]

Not sure about that. I had a french tb who never raced but was with a trainer at 2. His sire ran over hurdles at 3 before going to stud which is older than we would jump a national hunt horse here.

I'm confused about this Criso, am I misreading it? We wouldn't normally be racing over hurdles before 3 years old.

 

[Barton Bounty]

You could buy a connie and have issues, you could spend £15k and buy a horse with hidden issues. Id recommend a tb all the way..

 

[criso]

I'm confused about this Criso, am I misreading it? We wouldn't normally be racing over hurdles before 3 years old.

Typo should have said younger. To clarify The OP said they believed they started later in France. If they are training at 2 and hurdling at 3, then that is younger than the typical NH horse in England

 

[ycbm]

Typo should have said younger. To clarify The OP said they believed they started later in France. If they are training at 2 and hurdling at 3, then that is younger than the typical NH horse in England

Gotcha. In fact I've just read a BHA statement about junior hurdles races designed to encourage trainers to start jumpers as early as the French do.
.

 

[humblepie]

Did see a 3 year old French hurdle race on TV the other day - it is interesting as they have a practice fence in France and in that case the practice fence was on the all weather. Can't remember which course. (Random post nothing to do with potentially buying the aforementioned horse!).

 

[Amye]

Typo should have said younger. To clarify The OP said they believed they started later in France. If they are training at 2 and hurdling at 3, then that is younger than the typical NH horse in England

Ah thank you I must have misread the article!

 

[MatHalTed]

My first horse was a thoroughbred and was genuinely the greatest horse I've ever ridden, once he retired I went onto Warmblood / Sport Horse types, and honestly after a few years of those I'm missing the thoroughbred life. If I ever get another horse it'll definitely be a TB, you honestly can't beat them.

 

[BronsonNutter]

In my experience ex-racehorses tend to be one of two things:
1) tough as old boots, or
2) fall apart straight away

I think I'd be more tempted to buy one that had a few more racing miles on the clock but held up to it now, than something that was thoroughly unsuccessful and left early. Some career ending racing injuries (especially those in an 8/9year old horse where they were potentially considering retirement anyway) might never cause an issue for a leisure horse as the workload is so different.

And from a vet perspective, we see plenty of lame cobs, loads of lame warmbloods, lame native ponies etc. If its a horse it's likely to break at some point unfortunately Tbs are generally good patients though!