TB with bad feet - any advice any farriers on here?

[horse_lover]

As the title really I have owned this TB for 20mths and when I got him he was in a bad way all over. Although he has now piled on weight, lice free and feeling better in himself his feet are still terrible. To make matters worse he has had 2 foot abscesses burst out of his coronet band making the hoof growth even worse giving my farrier a really difficult time to get shoes on him. He often pulls shoes off in the last 2 weeks we have lost 2 shoes and he is shod every 4 weeks as if left any longer they come off. His feet dont tend to grow very quickly so nothing much is cut away by the farrier. I have asked my farriers advice on this and he said do more road work (there is not much road work where I am, but I do as much as I can), keep him in during the day so he isnt out stamping his feet with the flies (the barn is permanently shut for security so gets very hot) and he could not advise of any supplements or hoof treatments that he has seen work, just suggested 3 tablespoons of gelatine a week. My farrier is now going to try nailing the shoes on in different places each time to see if that helps and then try lighter shoes, if all else fails he is on about trying plastic shoes, but at £300 a set I am worried on the cost. Is there anyone that is in the same position, there must be a lot more out there with similar feet to my TB. Can anyone suggest a supplement that does work or even a hoof oil based treatment that will encourage stronger feet to grow (I forgot to mention he has been on biotin since I got him) Thanks

 

[Baggybreeches]

Get him on a stud balancer, they make a massive difference to crappy feet. also try using leg wraps to keep his legs warm this increases the circulation in the bottom of the leg which helps hoof growth.

 

[be positive]

There are several things going on with this horses feet, first is that you have probably been feeding him for weight gain since you bought him rather than for his hoof condition, so too much sugary, starchy feed and good grass all of which may have done his body good but not his feet.

My farrier would not recommend road work to help condition a shod horse, probably the opposite as there will be little stimulation of the frog and plenty of concussion which will not help.

I would look at his diet, if you can cut out sugar and starch and get the supplements correct it will help, for a quick improvement I have used Farriers Formula it does seem to speed up growth.

Ideally the shoes would come off to stimulate growth but if not steady work on a surface that puts the frogs into use is helpful, keep the frogs clean and check for any signs of thrush that will be preventing healthy growth.

My farrier also recommends using eucalyptus oil around the nail holes to help harden the area and I find this really helps when the foot is soft, I just use it immediately after shoeing into the old and new holes for a few days.

 

[thatsmygirl]

What diet is he on? This is very important

 

[Florrie]

I have two ex-racers. One with very good feet and the other whose feed need doing every 5 weeks as they chip so badly! Well, they used to anyway.

You can buy bags of pure Biotin supplements which does help a lot. They sell them on eBay and in most local feed shops. I used this as a primary supplement in my mares feed.

Another one I suggest is Fourmula4Feet. NAF do one too in a liquid form but I can't remember the name. I give that a try but it didn't agree with her.

I give my mare with the terrible feet a very small amount of Biotin twice a day in her hard feed and her feet have improved in leaps and bounds.


For my TB Gelding he's just on TopSpec Feed Balancer which keeps ontop of his hooves.

 

[asommerville]

he needs his feet looksd after.from.the inside and outside, so ensure he is getting enouhh good feeding as suggested above and i would have a look at carr day and martin cornucrescine (the brown waxy one that you rub in)

 

[galaxy]

This is my friends horse and she will be on soon I'm sure.

But I know he has been on pure Biotin since she's had him. I've known him since she moved onto my yard in Feb and he is not now on conditioning feeds and holding his weight well. I THINK he has a handful of Happy Hoof for his supplements and that's it. Maybe a bit of Fast Fibre? (I'm only guessing from what I've seen in his bowl, but the chaff is def Happy Hoof as I remember her saying).

 

[horse_lover]

Fab thanks everyone, he is on very little feed, he is out on good grass and gets just under half a stubbs scoop of Happy Hoof once a day for his supplements (fly free and biotin). Since getting the weight on him last year for a TB he seems to live off fresh air. Thanks asommerville cornucrescine has been suggested by someone else so I may try that and try a different supplement, maybe his body is so used to biotin that it has stopped working...

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I would be very interested in seeing photos of your horse's hooves.

 

[McNally]

Hi, My Tb had horrendous feet for the first couple of years out of racing ( though he was nicely shod when i got him- Im not blaming the trainer or anything!!)
It got to the point i couldnt ride at all- he couldnt have shoes on because there was nothing to fix a shoe too. He walked on his frog incredibly painfully.
He had about 2 months box rest- when he was able to walk with out being in agony he had regular turnout building up slowly.
During this time he ate only Healthy Hoof and extra Biotin had regular checks from the farrier who was amazing (new farrier. Old one told me to pts)
It took a time but he eventually had enough hoof to shoe and the quality had improved so they held a shoe. I had to be ultra careful for ages. If he did ever happen to loose a shoe he stayed in or had a nappy vet rapped to his sole until it was replaced.
Nowadays he's able to have shoe less breaks in the field and come back into light work with no shoes on. This would have been unheard of so dont rush and dont give up hope x

 

[Yertis]

You could try the Epona shoes, glued and with 2 nails each side, there are 4 nail holes each side so your farrier can alternate which 2 holes are used each time to save the hoof wall. The glue also acts as cushioning and there is a frog shaped piece in the shoe to stimulate the frog. They are polymer shoes with gel inner parts so very comfy. I buy the shoes direct from Germany, buy the glue from Adhere and my farrier glues and nails, this keeps the cost down as he is not having to supply the parts

 

[Oberon]

Fab thanks everyone, he is on very little feed, he is out on good grass and gets just under half a stubbs scoop of Happy Hoof once a day for his supplements (fly free and biotin). Since getting the weight on him last year for a TB he seems to live off fresh air. Thanks asommerville cornucrescine has been suggested by someone else so I may try that and try a different supplement, maybe his body is so used to biotin that it has stopped working...

Biotin is a B Vitamin. The body can't get used to and reject B vitamins, it's part of their internal synthesis

Biotin is the very tip of the iceberg. There was ONE small study that suggested it helped grow a better hoof - and thus a whole industry was born . But you can't throw biotin at a horse and hope that is the magic ingredient. There isn't a magic lotion or potion to a better hoof either.

And your horse hasn't got 'bad TB feet'. He has SICK Tb feet

The first place to start is with diet. It's not abut adding more and more supplements - it's about looking at the whole diet, reducing sugar and increasing nutrients so the horse has a fair chance at growing a healthy hoof.

The grass is very sweet this year (even if it's not considered 'good' grazing). So we need to look at making sure what we feed additionally isn't molassed as well (and that includes 'Mogolo' ). Nothing over 10% starch and sugar in a bucket.

Consider alfalfa with suspicion at the moment.

A vitamin and mineral supplement that provides plenty of copper and zinc to match what is low in our forage will help the horse lay down tissue.

Micronised linseed will help to waterproof the hoof wall.

I would be interested in seeing pics of the hooves.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Oberon, I am also interested in photos because the abscesses and multiple shoe-pullings could point towards long toes and under-run heels.

 

[galaxy]

Posting for OP as easy on my phone!!

 

[galaxy]

 

[galaxy]

 

[galaxy]

 

[Zargon_91]

Keratex is good! Also over-reach boot and sausage boot combinations all round to stop him taking his shoes off...
Disagree with biotin can't be synthesised- it's water soluble which means he won't store anything, but equally you can't overdose them on it, but they definately use it! Seaweed is also quite good and makes their coat nice as a bonus
Agree with feeding broad spectrum vitamin and mineral balancer, reccommend spillers lite balancer to keep carbs and sugars down.

 

[Oberon]

Can you see the flaring? The way the wall pushes out? It shouts of a poor laminae connection and possibly a degree of rotation.

The top two inches from the coronet is pure, well connected growth.

But with your horse - even that top two inches isn't perfect.

The shoes mean Tb is bearing all his weight on that weak connection - making it worse.

You can see the wall is far too long (common in shod hooves IME). The crumbling is all localised to the nails - where there are holes in the wall. It is all localised to the disconnected areas at the bottom of the hoof. If all that crumbled away tomorrow - it wouldn't harm the internal structures (although he would be sore for a week or so ).

The back of the hoof (frog, heels, digital cushions) is so weak and under developed (also common).

You can see the imbalance to his hooves easily.

I can't even begin to fathom what the purpose of those toes in the hind shoes are I imagine it's to improve break over....but I'm at a loss as to how

I understand I am feeling a bit grumpy but my question is how is the poor lad sound?

To start - address diet PLEASE. Grow a better quality hoof and stronger laminae connection.

I would be asking for Xrays of those fronts.

 

[thatsmygirl]

Honestly listen to Oberon she knows her stuff.
I'm also a owner of a tb which has awful feet and started to go lame after shoeing and the best thing I ever done was take his shoes off after lots off research and help via here. My lad has reverse rotated pedal bones which the x rays showed. He's a on going project but he will come right.

 

[Gloria Victous]

The shoes your horse has on are far too heavy he would benefit from racing plates on his fronts, basically his feet are what they are always going to be and you have to manage them accordingly. I have the same problem with my TB but I am in the north west where we have had lots of wet weather and my horses feet grow like billy-o. I have the farrier every 4 weeks. He needs to also be fed specifically for his feet, I feed a balancer and happy hoof or similar. If you have dry conditions I reccomend Kevin Bacon paste to annoint his hooves twice a day. Good luck but remember there is no cure just good management.

 

[galaxy]

not my horse, but obv had discussion with OP when we were taking photos. We were actually really surprised at the angle/flair. Unless you are literally eyes at floor height you just can't see it! (he has very small feet and one much smaller than the other)

The top half of the foot has growth ring in it and I wonder if that is when she moved to our yard? Her previous yard had practically no grazing, whereas he is now out everyday on fairly decent grass (although hardly dairy pasture or anything. I'd say we grow a LOT of grass, average quality)

The cumbling on the inside of the off fore is actually where one of the abcesses is growing out.

Oberon. Apart from taking his shoes off (which I doubt the OP is going to jump at as this horse is literally crippled, not just footie when he looses a shoe) exactly what diet would you put him on if he came to your yard?

 

[thatsmygirl]

Gloria victous I'm sorry but you are wrong. What you put into your horse shows on the outside. His feet do NOT have to be what they are, they can be improved by correct management, diet and by letting the horse sort his own feet out without metal stuck to them. There is a cure but it means owners doing research and not just listening to stuff like that. Happy hoof is also a feed I wouldn't touch, not very foot friendly tbh, go and google

 

[Gloria Victous]

Gloria victous I'm sorry but you are wrong. What you put into your horse shows on the outside. His feet do NOT have to be what they are, they can be improved by correct management, diet and by letting the horse sort his own feet out without metal stuck to them. There is a cure but it means owners doing research and not just listening to stuff like that. Happy hoof is also a feed I wouldn't touch, not very foot friendly tbh, go and google

Well we must agree to differ, you are quite obviously a barefoot person. Each to their own.

 

[Gloria Victous]

If you read my post correctly, before you commented, in your barefoot attitude, I did also say that foot management was most important. I shall leave it there if I am going to have the barefoot taliban on my case.

 

[thatsmygirl]

Iv got both shod and barefoot horses and am not against shoeing, all feed the same low sugar/starch diet, carefull grass intake ( grass isn't great for feet) and the best feet or shall I say improved feet iv seen are in the barefoot horses iv got. Horses given the change can grow lovely feet but just need their owners support. I use to be so anti barefoot but since having some bare and all the research iv done plus seeing the horses feet change for the better once the feet can do what they won't without metal stuck to them iv changed big time. The rest off my horses will also go bare but i'm doing it slowly.

 

[thatsmygirl]

I haven't got a attitude, will take my away then.

 

[Gloria Victous]

Iv got both shod and barefoot horses and am not against shoeing, all feed the same low sugar/starch diet, carefull grass intake ( grass isn't great for feet) and the best feet or shall I say improved feet iv seen are in the barefoot horses iv got. Horses given the change can grow lovely feet but just need their owners support. I use to be so anti barefoot but since having some bare and all the research iv done plus seeing the horses feet change for the better once the feet can do what they won't without metal stuck to them iv changed big time. The rest off my horses will also go bare but i'm doing it slowly.

Thank you for your reasoned reply TMG, I would like to ask you how much uncomfort a flat footed TB would have to go through, bare in mind he has thin soles, before he was able to be bare foot. I am interested but not convinced! lol

 

[Clava]

Good luck but remember there is no cure just good management.

As hooves can totally change from poor, weak, thin soled things into rock crunchers with a change in diet / management, I think they most certainly can be "cured" in some cases. Sadly often shoes do not form part of the cure though and are often the reason for the weakness.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

basically his feet are what they are always going to be

Sorry GV, but I disagree with this comment. His hooves can be so much better than this.

These photos make me so sad for the horse and cross too. What is the Farrier thinking? It is such a bad shoeing job (no heel support and the breakover is far too forwards which is why the poor horse keeps pulling his front shoes off) and the hooves have obviously been badly shod for some time.

Horse_lover, I have been exactly where you are, in fact I think that my mares hooves (particularly her near fore) were much worse than your horse's hooves. If you want to PM me, I can let you know who my new Farrier is. He managed to take my mare's toes back approximately an inch and keep her sound during his first visit. I did have her shoes taken off later on in her recovery on the Farrier's advice, but she wouldn't have coped with it at the start and keeping her comfortable is very important to me.