Teaching qualifications

Tnavas said:
What I wrote in my post was copied verbatim from their site. They do not cover horsecare or riding, they are riding coaching only
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Incorrect. Taken from the Bef website. This is what's required for level 2 and there is no way you can pass this if you do not understand or know what you're teaching!


Prepare to ride - lead and turn a horse/pony.
Check & adjust tack. Adjust stirrups. Adjust reins correctly
Correct position in the saddle. Basic suppleness as required in the riding position. Rhythm and balance maintained through turns and circles. Ride forward. Correct hand/ rein position
Warm-up for horse. Free walk. Trot. Canter. Changes of direction, turns, circles, transitions.
Independent seat - balance, security and straightness with and without stirrups in walk, trot and canter.
Co-ordinated aids when riding with the reins in one hand.
Co-ordinated aid application. Preparation when making transitions.
Correct canter strike-offs.
Correctly sized and shaped school figures.
Fluent unconstrained work of the horse. Understand and be able to apply diagonals in trot. Recognise leading leg in canter. Simple moving the horse/pony way from the leg exercises. Variations of pace within the trot. Develop free forward movement. Riding in the open and over undulating terrain.
Secure balanced jumping position that does not hinder the horse. Correct use of the reins riding over poles, jumps and a course of fences appropriate length of stirrup.
Safe tack & saddlery
First aid procedures, reporting. Appropriate dress, working with horses, riding, jumping.
Basic knowledge of equine behaviour/ psychology Natural lifestyle.

Link is here: http://www.bef.co.uk/Detail.aspx?page=ukcc-level-2

Plus if you look at the sample portfolios on the RDA website, you'll see questions about lameness, what the white line represents, the role of the frog, signs tack doesn't fit etc.

ETS, this is level 3:

Riding position - correct position in the saddle. suppleness as required in the riding position. Show poise, balance and the ability to absorb and follow the horse's movement in all three gaits. Rhythm, balance and forward maintained throughout. Correct position/ use, single, double reins
Warm-up for horse - Free walk. Trot. Canter. Changes of direction, Turns, circles, transitions. Simple lateral exercises.
Independent seat
Ride horses forward to a receiving hand.
Maintain the horse in good form throughout independently of the reins and stirrups. Balance, security and straightness with and without stirrups in walk, trot and canter.
Co-ordinated aids when riding with the reins in one hand.
Natural aids Fluent co-ordinated aid application. Preparation when making transitions and changes of direction. Lateral work up to and including leg-yielding and walk demi pirouettes.
When and when not to use the whip.
Plan preparation & execution of transitions and school figures, as well as exercises to increase the horse's obedience and suppleness, variations of pace within the trot. Riding in the open and over undulating terrain.
Balanced, secure position suitable for riding over undulating ground. Appreciation of terrain and ground conditions.
Secure, supple, balanced jumping position with a secure lower leg. Influencing not hindering the horse. Correct use of the reins. Riding over poles, jumps and a course of jumps Appropriate length of stirrup. Effective use of leg. Correct application of rein aids. Fluency through the phases of the jump allowing the horse freedom over poles, fences, grids and courses. Balance and rhythm when riding a course of show jumps and or cross country fences. Correct forward jumping position. Secure position when jumping. Effective control of pace. Fluently ridden course. Correct canter leads.
 
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Tnavas said:
No you are not obliged to promote the exam system or the BHS or AI's generally but neither do you have the right to brand folks as numpties or disrespect a system that has stood the test of time for 70 odd years. Bear in mind that the coaches that currently coach were probably coached by the coaches that we coached many years ago. Equestrian riders throughout the UK owe a considerable amount to the foresight, hardwork and dedication of the BHS.

I wonder how many of you are members to make use of the Public Liability Insurance?
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Why on earth would I care who you trained, and who trained whom? Whoever trained some of the AIs I've met produced a poor end result. If you trained them, or trained those who trained them, maybe you didn't do a good job. Or maybe you did, and they just weren't capable of taking that training on board. I don't know, and I sure as hell don't care...

I'm also not sure why you think you have the right to police my opinion on individuals I have met, who I do believe to be numpties. I haven't named people personally, or criticised any specific individual (unlike you), and as such, my comments are legally, and morally, defensible. On those grounds, I absolutely have the right to voice them.

I'm a BHS member because I support their Welfare campaigns and services. I have higher value PL insurance in addition to this.
 
teapot said:
Incorrect. Taken from the Bef website. This is what's required for level 2 and there is no way you can pass this if you do not understand or know what you're teaching!


Prepare to ride - lead and turn a horse/pony.
Check & adjust tack. Adjust stirrups. Adjust reins correctly
Correct position in the saddle. Basic suppleness as required in the riding position. Rhythm and balance maintained through turns and circles. Ride forward. Correct hand/ rein position
Warm-up for horse. Free walk. Trot. Canter. Changes of direction, turns, circles, transitions.
Independent seat - balance, security and straightness with and without stirrups in walk, trot and canter.
Co-ordinated aids when riding with the reins in one hand.
Co-ordinated aid application. Pr is eparation when making transitions.
Correct canter strike-offs.
Correctly sized and shaped school figures.
Fluent unconstrained work of the horse. Understand and be able to apply diagonals in trot. Recognise leading leg in canter. Simple moving the horse/pony way from the leg exercises. Variations of pace within the trot. Develop free forward movement. Riding in the open and over undulating terrain.
Secure balanced jumping position that does not hinder the horse. Correct use of the reins riding over poles, jumps and a course of fences appropriate length of stirrup.
Safe tack & saddlery
First aid procedures, reporting. Appropriate dress, working with horses, riding, jumping.
Basic knowledge of equine behaviour/ psychology Natural lifestyle.

Link is here: http://www.bef.co.uk/Detail.aspx?page=ukcc-level-2

Plus if you look at the sample portfolios on the RDA website, you'll see questions about lameness, what the white line represents, the role of the frog, signs tack doesn't fit etc.

ETS, this is level 3:

Riding position - correct position in the saddle. suppleness as required in the riding position. Show poise, balance and the ability to absorb and follow the horse's movement in all three gaits. Rhythm, balance and forward maintained throughout. Correct position/ use, single, double reins
Warm-up for horse - Free walk. Trot. Canter. Changes of direction, Turns, circles, transitions. Simple lateral exercises.
Independent seat
Ride horses forward to a receiving hand.
Maintain the horse in good form throughout independently of the reins and stirrups. Balance, security and straightness with and without stirrups in walk, trot and canter.
Co-ordinated aids when riding with the reins in one hand.
Natural aids Fluent co-ordinated aid application. Preparation when making transitions and changes of direction. Lateral work up to and including leg-yielding and walk demi pirouettes.
When and when not to use the whip.
Plan preparation & execution of transitions and school figures, as well as exercises to increase the horse's obedience and suppleness, variations of pace within the trot. Riding in the open and over undulating terrain.
Balanced, secure position suitable for riding over undulating ground. Appreciation of terrain and ground conditions.
Secure, supple, balanced jumping position with a secure lower leg. Influencing not hindering the horse. Correct use of the reins. Riding over poles, jumps and a course of jumps Appropriate length of stirrup. Effective use of leg. Correct application of rein aids. Fluency through the phases of the jump allowing the horse freedom over poles, fences, grids and courses. Balance and rhythm when riding a course of show jumps and or cross country fences. Correct forward jumping position. Secure position when jumping. Effective control of pace. Fluently ridden course. Correct canter leads.
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Candidates don't ride, these are all teaching subjects, there are variations within each society/discipline. The generic UKCC states clearly that it is a coaching system and that the coaches riding and horse management are not part of the exam
 
Tnavas said:
Candidates don't ride, these are all teaching subjects, there are variations within each society/discipline. The generic UKCC states clearly that it is a coaching system and that the coaches riding and horse management are not part of the exam
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Never said they did ride, but the point is the ukcc levels still require more knowledge then people give them credit for, including equine knowledge.

I stand by the fact I don't need to do my Stage 3 riding (which is a requirement of the AI) to teach a good RDA lesson, and RDA as a national body would agree. The AI isn't the be all and end all.
 
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HGA-12 said:
Try reading previous posters they were saying the AI is worth nothing and any numpty person can do it which is why we responded. How would you like it if someone started saying your qualification was worth nothing and meant nothing to clients coming or looking for an instructor.
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I don't need to try reading them, I did read them. All I can see is someone saying that anyone can attain the AI qualification and I agree with that. The word numpty was unnecessary, but just an exaggeration to make a point and I think 99% of people would take it that way. What I found far more offensive was the tone you and Tnavas have used in your posts. Two wrongs don't make a right and the continual erroneous assumptions about people and what we don't or can't know are frankly rude, dismissive and not at all what the BHS would support at a time when they are making huge changes to their training programmes to reflect the fact that they know more about horses now and no longer agree with much of what they were teaching back then. You have both been really quite rude to other posters on here, some of a younger generation, some not...but if you're as old as you say you are, you should know better than to speak to people with such rudeness. Please read my other posts, the ones that supported BHS qualifications, don't just highlight the bits I've written that you can disagree with. Nobody has said your qualification is worth nothing...people have just said that it is not always perceived as being as useful as you might like to think it should be perceived as. That's not their fault...that's the fault of the training system nowadays, because I do think it was much harder 20+ years ago...it certainly was when I was studying. I say that because there are countless AI instructors up and down the country that are genuinely awful instructors. That's not so much even a slight on the BHS because the vast majority of those poor instructors are poor because of their own failings, not because of the BHS. It is possible for pretty much anyone to learn enough to pass and achieve their AI. I don't know why that's being taken as a criticism here? It's a good thing, it's the first step on a ladder, an entry level qualification as the BHS themselves say. AI Instructors shouldn't be going out teaching advanced riders...it is advised that they may need additional support in new environments. They say that because it is entry level, so it's not a bad thing to point that out. I just don't understand why you find it so offensive.

If someone gets their AI and never bothers going further, that's fine...it doesn't mean they are not good enough to teach more advanced lessons or that they can't be really good instructors, but it also means that they will mostly be perceived as not being as good and that is what the BHS themselves designed the stages for. If you call the BHS and say you want to do elementary dressage, they'll tell you to find an ITT or II, they won't tell you to find an AI because they won't recognise your experience, they'll only recognise your proven (through their exams) qualifications.

Tnavas said:
Read the earlier posts, helpful?!!! certainly not and yes we are defending the BHS system as a result of the slagging that one person gave it. Don't forget, that we the people who qualified all those years ago are the coaches, that coached the coaches that now coach you. We were taught by older people but we had respect for our elders unlike the modern generation.

As a professional coach who had a commercial riding school I only hired BHS qualified coaches, because the general public only want their children or themselves taught by qualified people. 300+ people a week can't all be wrong

It also reduces my insurance premiums! I know what I'm getting, my riders get taught correctly and my school ponies and horses remain well schooled.
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I just don't get this. Nobody is slagging off the BHS. People are highlighting that it isn't the only route to teaching. They are highlighting that being an AI instructor doesn't mean you are a good instructor. What people are doing that you don't seem to like is telling you and HGA-12 that your posts, comments and assumptions about other people, which you've continued above, are down right annoying, pointless, unhelpful to the OP and frankly, rude.

You, the people who qualified all those years ago haven't coached the coaches that have coached me. You may have coached them at an early point in their careers, but as they are FBHS, they wouldn't have had much time being coached by an AI. That's not a criticism, that's following the correct path that the BHS has laid down. Saying things like that is ridiculous. You have no idea who any of us have been coached by. Unless you're in your 90's, you definitely didn't coach the person who did the majority of my teaching when I was younger so stop with the assumptions and self appointed godlike mentality.

I am dumbfounded at your comment about you respecting your elders unlike the modern generation. It goes both ways. Respect should be earned and you haven't earned any on this thread with the attitude that you have shown. Some other posters may have said the odd rude thing, but you and HGA-12 have been rude to pretty much everyone else on the thread and you're so far up that pedestal you've put yourselves on that you can't even see it.

You are both creating your own arguments because you're failing to take things the way they are being written, you're just alienating people through your rude, assumptive and condescending posts and you are doing the BHS no favours whatsoever.

If I ran a riding school, I would only hire BHS qualified instructors, because that's what people who use riding schools want. However, if someone came to me tomorrow wanting a dressage lesson as they are working towards their PSG debut, I'd tell them to go to Adam Kemp, who is an FBHS...or to Olivia Oakeley, who isn't even 25 yet, not qualified, but an incredibly talented coach. It's all about the target, which is why I gave relevant advice to the OP to think about her target market and make her decision from there, but supporting BHS qualifications...because I do support them. I just don't think they guarantee a good instructor at the AI level.

This whole thing is just sad, because you both clearly love and really believe in the BHS and its training system, but you can't seem to recognise that you are painting it in a very poor light with your attitudes to other people. You are professional instructors, you shouldn't be communicating with people in this manner. You are representing the BHS by virtue of your qualifications, but I'm pretty sure they'd be rather ticked off with how you are portraying them in this thread. They are working so hard at the moment to overhaul their image, which they feel they need to do as they recognise the need to update their teaching methods as time has moved on and we know more about horses than we did 30+ years ago. They want to move away from the methods of old and have their system reflect the new advances in what we know about horses and effective training.

Think on that. You keep banging on about how much better things were back in the day, but that is precisely what the BHS is now trying to move away from as they try to improve. I haven't read or heard that...I've been at BHS HQ a number of times in the past year, talking to their World Class, Training and Welfare department heads...they are investing very heavily in improvement across the board.
 
teapot said:
Never said they did ride, but the point is the ukcc levels still require more knowledge then people give them credit for, including equine knowledge.

I stand by the fact I don't need to do my Stage 3 riding (which is a requirement of the AI) to teach a good RDA lesson, and RDA as a national body would agree. The AI isn't the be all and end all.
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Take it up with them, it's their statement not mine! Good on you for working with RDA they do an amazing job.
 
FfionWinnie said:
You are doing a great job of proving yourself to be like SOME of the numpty AIs ONE poster mentioned ONCE.

What a bore you are being!
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Oh for gawd sake FF you know nothing about being an AI or having working so hard to get to have a nobody saying what they did. Your the mumpty and just trying to fuel the fire by throwing names at me, you go on UI to bye bye.
 
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HGA-12 said:
Oh for gawd sake FF you know nothing about being an AI or having working so hard to get to have a nobody saying what they did. Your the mumpty and just trying to fuel the fire by throwing names at me, you go on UI to bye bye.
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You're going to have to write this again if you want anyone to know what you are trying to say, particularly the middle bit.
 
Tnavas said:
neither do you have the right to brand folks as numpties or disrespect a system that has stood the test of time for 70 odd years.
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Age of systems have nothing to do with anything or the quality of training - otherwise the FRC wouldn't have been banned from having any new apprentices until they sorted themselves out!
 
Personally I think it silly to say everybody could get the AI .
Many people will never ride well enough to attain stage three ,to say that every human has the balance the physical and physiological attributes to ride at stage three level is simply silly.
I know lots of people enjoying low level hacking who who never ride well enough for stage three .
Many people are not brave enough to jump particularly on strange horses .
If stage three was so easy they would be churning them out of the equine college near me and they are not .
 
Goldenstar said:
Personally I think it silly to say everybody could get the AI .
Many people will never ride well enough to attain stage three ,to say that every human has the balance the physical and physiological attributes to ride at stage three level is simply silly.
I know lots of people enjoying low level hacking who who never ride well enough for stage three .
Many people are not brave enough to jump particularly on strange horses .
If stage three was so easy they would be churning them out of the equine college near me and they are not .
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This ^

Some I trained for their AI were just not good enough in the end to go forwards to exam, others were very good riders who could not impart knowledge to others, yet others who taught very well were not to 'the standard' for riding over all phases.

Those who want to follow teaching levels, DO carry on, please do not be deterrred from going further if you can. Everyone has their limits but knowledge can be gained however good you are.
 
Goldenstar said:
Personally I think it silly to say everybody could get the AI .
Many people will never ride well enough to attain stage three ,to say that every human has the balance the physical and physiological attributes to ride at stage three level is simply silly.
I know lots of people enjoying low level hacking who who never ride well enough for stage three .
Many people are not brave enough to jump particularly on strange horses .
If stage three was so easy they would be churning them out of the equine college near me and they are not .
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That is what we are trying to say GS it is silly ty :D, that is our point which they cannot undertsand. There will be establisments who pass candidates easier than when we did it. TY for this. This whole matter would not have escalated, had the one poster not said what they said about the BHS and its training and qualifications. Obviously those who are proud of their qualifications and run their own establisments the BHS way will be miffed and the coments that were said:)

I mean if you cannot stand up for what you believe in what can you stand up for ( even though sometimes I don't word it right )ok I calmed down :)
 
HGA-12 said:
Oh for gawd sake FF you know nothing about being an AI or having working so hard to get to have a nobody saying what they did. Your the mumpty and just trying to fuel the fire by throwing names at me, you go on UI to bye bye.
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Excellent news. Just a shame it doesn't make you evaporate from my view too.
 
Goldenstar said:
Personally I think it silly to say everybody could get the AI .
Many people will never ride well enough to attain stage three ,to say that every human has the balance the physical and physiological attributes to ride at stage three level is simply silly.
I know lots of people enjoying low level hacking who who never ride well enough for stage three .
Many people are not brave enough to jump particularly on strange horses .
If stage three was so easy they would be churning them out of the equine college near me and they are not .
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The Fuzzy Furry said:
This ^

Some I trained for their AI were just not good enough in the end to go forwards to exam, others were very good riders who could not impart knowledge to others, yet others who taught very well were not to 'the standard' for riding over all phases.

Those who want to follow teaching levels, DO carry on, please do not be deterrred from going further if you can. Everyone has their limits but knowledge can be gained however good you are.
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Agree with both of these statements. I can only speak for myself, but I said what I did because I do genuinely believe that if someone wants to, despite not necessarily being good enough, they can pass the stage 3 even if it takes 10 attempts, to get their AI because there are so many brilliant coaches out there who can get them through it. It doesn't mean they should really be teaching. That doesn't and shouldn't belittle the AI qualification as I think I've made quite clear.

This is no different to someone eventually being made a good enough driver to pass their driving test...it happens all the time, more than in BHS exams for sure but it does happen.

The point is surely that qualifications are never bad, but that not everyone requires that their coach has them. I am all for the BHS, especially with the way they are moving now. I did my training on an extreme strict BHS college yard and still live by that. It's just not needed by everybody nowadays and it's a shame that has caused such a fuss on this thread.
 
HGA-12 said:
That is what we are trying to say GS it is silly ty :D, that is our point which they cannot undertsand.
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Funny isn't it that we can understand GS.

I'm proud of my qualifications but I wouldn't take umbrage if someone said any numpty can do a PhD if the work hard enough, or people with PhDs have no common sense etc etc. I still don't understand why you and Tnavas turned it personal and wonder if you are expecting some sort of 'BHS supporters' badge, now where is BHS_Lee when you need him :p.
 
ester said:
Funny isn't it that we can understand GS.

I'm proud of my qualifications but I wouldn't take umbrage if someone said any numpty can do a PhD if the work hard enough, or people with PhDs have no common sense etc etc. I still don't understand why you and Tnavas turned it personal and wonder if you are expecting some sort of 'BHS supporters' badge, now where is BHS_Lee when you need him :p.
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Yes funny that I must be from another planet ( what part of the last thread have you forgotten?? )

We don't see why so many jumped on the band wagon long after we had more or less put our point across to the individual but so many decided to add and re ignite it and are still doing so. I think our feelings are clear and not much more to say Nuff said.
 
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ester said:
Funny isn't it that we can understand GS.

I'm proud of my qualifications but I wouldn't take umbrage if someone said any numpty can do a PhD if the work hard enough, or people with PhDs have no common sense etc etc. I still don't understand why you and Tnavas turned it personal and wonder if you are expecting some sort of 'BHS supporters' badge, now where is BHS_Lee when you need him :p.
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I do actually, often say that - not the common sense thing, that the vast majority of folk could get a PhD with enough effort and training, if they wanted to - despite having one myself.

I feel similarly about the AI - if you want it enough, and are prepared to throw enough money and effort at it, I do believe most people could pass the current s3, given the multiple attempts at the exams you can take. Certainly there are AIs in my area who I wonder how on earth many attempts it took them. I'm more than happy to agree with disagree with TFF and GS amicably, on that point - perhaps they have a lower opinion of human resourcefulness than me. Or a higher opinion of human self-respect ;)
 
HGA-12 said:
Yes funny that I must be from another planet ( what part of the last thread have you forgotten?? )

We don't see why so many jumped on the band wagon long after we had more or less put our point across to the individual but so many decided to add and re ignite it and are still doing so. I think our feelings are clear and not much more to say Nuff said.
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Again, I can only speak for myself, but I chpiped in because I read through and felt that the two of you completely derailed the thread to your own agenda under the illusion you were helping the OP - which you weren't. You were also both conducting yourselves in a manner that I felt damaging to the BHSand rude to other people...and as a supporter of the BHS, I wanted to highlight that.

Take a step back and look at the way you have spoken to others on this thread...it us not a good portrayal of a professional person. You also can't use the excuse that someone else was rude first, because none of us are in pre-school!
 
HGA-12 said:
you know nothing about being an AI or having working so hard to get to have a nobody saying what they did.
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Well as I said, I don't think you can expect people to interpret your posts correctly when they read as this does.
You seem to think it is the readers fault when they don't understand the point you are pointing across. Perhaps if you did so as TFF and GS did this thread wouldn't have gotten to this point!

Helping the OP and helping the BHS _GG_ and I don't think either were achieved.
 
ester said:
No because I hadn't heard of it despite being a member.
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There have been mentions in the magazine, in emails and on Facebook - it may depend on what you have subscribed to or blocked and whether you have read the emails.

There should also be posters in most approved centres. Local committees may have placed them in tack shops etc but this depends how active they are and how many volunteers they have.
 
Thanks, ruth83, I hadn't previously noticed the BHS survey either, despite being a Gold member. I have now completed it (though my only BHS qualification is the Riding and Road Safety certificate :D).

Re PHDs. I haven't got one, but those folk I know who do have one (such as my OH), seem to reckon that they are as much a measure of dogged determination as of high innate intelligence. Both are valuable attributes, of course :).
 
I have been teaching for 46 years, firstly in a riding school where I took my BHS exams and for the last 36 years as a freelance Dressage trainer.
10 years ago I decided to train for and take my UKCC, I learnt so much about Coaching people, rider centred coaching, holistic coaching, it has transformed how I now Coach, my riders noticed a difference and have been so inspired by the new style, it was the best thing I have ever done.
I have always been very conscientious about keeping up to date with my technical knowledge and have successfully trained riders to International Grand Prix but I now make sure I keep up to date with my coaching skills as well, I owe it to my riders that are keen to learn and have been with me for many years.
I would not train with someone that did not have the get up and go to improve themselves and were prepared to put their neck on the line to have their ability assessed.
 
CoachinaCar, my initial response to your post was OMG how have you put up with people for 46 years, let alone horsey people. Here have a medal :eek3:
AM906G.jpg
 
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