Tnavas
Well-Known Member
Ester, those comments were about my comment that you can do H without doing B riding.
Teaching qualifications
- Thread starter Daisy1905
- Start date
Ester, those comments were about my comment that you can do H without doing B riding.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
They mentioned my friend though so I wanted to clarify.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Tnavas do you sometimes think your on a loosing battle explaining here lol
No what I am discribing is Park Farm where you live and breath your training, either as wroking pupil or paying student living on site 24 7 for over a year, ALL staff junior and senior live on site at the 80 acres Park Farm with 20 acres concrete/tarmac HUGEEEE indoor school major scary x country - olympic x country course. It is pure and simply your training lessons - lectures-demonstrations mock exams weekly tests which are practical and theory. We all had 6 horses signed to us as working pupils 1 or 2 livery 2 large school horses two smaller all checked by senior staff, we were responsible for caring -taking up trimming up and more every single day, evening yard we had a block assigned to us with one senior staff and finishing off along with our 6 allocated were check before end of day. Once a week evening we had to get horses ready for the riding club and help the members on etc. We all had 6 horses at a time to bring in from the field ride one lead 5, as the distance to the fields was around 10 acres of concrete all were used to being lead in this way as it happend daily - yearly
Proffesional competitions held, BHS exams held there
It is another world
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ester
Not slacking multitasking
A world where most people won't do their training.
teapot
Well-Known Member
I only ever did my Stage 1 (but was training for the AI at the time) at a yard where Ester's FBHS still teaches, and I'm torn about the BHS system. I know experienced people who can teach incredibly well yet fell apart in that exam environment. Yes Stages 1 to 3 may seem simple on paper, but there is something different about turning up at an exam centre in your kit, on horses in a yard you don't know etc. It's part of the test and it can stop people in their tracks. There's also the rigidity of the riding requirement in terms of how you're meant to look and do the BHS thing, which is a little prohibitive imho.
If I get the chance before I end up working full time, I want to try and get my ukcc level 2 for RDA. Having been a guinea pig hundreds of times for ptt exams, I prefer the ukcc system - it's less rigid (outside of the health and safety aspect) and imho gives you the freedom to teach/coach what's in front of you. It again isn't as easy as it sounds though - fair amount of portfolio work at the upper levels. I helped a friend practice for her RDA ukcc one the other week, and the breadth of the riders she was going to teaching was tough in terms of how much she had to cover in the space of thirty minutes with four very differently abled riders.
I don't need to have the BHS Stage 3 riding under my belt to know how to get the best out of my RDA riders, something I am regularly complimented on, by parents and RDA bods of all levels. I also know who I can use the correct terminology with and who I can't - I see teaching as something you do when working with what's in front of you, and no amount of paperwork would automatically mean someone could teach well!
If I get the chance before I end up working full time, I want to try and get my ukcc level 2 for RDA. Having been a guinea pig hundreds of times for ptt exams, I prefer the ukcc system - it's less rigid (outside of the health and safety aspect) and imho gives you the freedom to teach/coach what's in front of you. It again isn't as easy as it sounds though - fair amount of portfolio work at the upper levels. I helped a friend practice for her RDA ukcc one the other week, and the breadth of the riders she was going to teaching was tough in terms of how much she had to cover in the space of thirty minutes with four very differently abled riders.
I don't need to have the BHS Stage 3 riding under my belt to know how to get the best out of my RDA riders, something I am regularly complimented on, by parents and RDA bods of all levels. I also know who I can use the correct terminology with and who I can't - I see teaching as something you do when working with what's in front of you, and no amount of paperwork would automatically mean someone could teach well!
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PolarSkye
Well-Known Member
Tnavas do you sometimes think your on a loosing battle explaining here lol
No what I am discribing is Park Farm where you live and breath your training, living on site 24 7 for over a year, ALL staff junior and senior live on site at the 80 acres Park Farm with HUGEEEE indoor school major scary x country - olympic x country course. It is pure and simply your training lessons - lectures-demonstrations mock exams weekly tests which are practical and theory. We all had 6 horses signed to us as working pupils 1 or 2 livery 2 large school horses two smaller all checked by senior staff, we were responsible for caring -taking up trimming up and more every single day, evening yard we had a block assigned to us with one senior staff and finishing off along with our 6 allocated were check before end of day. Once a week evening we had to get horses ready for the riding club and help the members on etc. We all had 6 horses at a time to bring in from the field ride one lead 5, as the distance to the fields was around 10 acres of concrete all were used to being lead in this way as it happend daily - yearly
Proffesional competitions held, BHS exams held there
It is another world
Another world? No, it isn't. You have described yards up and down the country run and staffed by people with and without BHS qualifications - with and without success. I know BHS-trained yard owners and managers I wouldn't trust with a hamster . . . and some I would trust with any horse. Similarly, I know excellent horse men and women with no formal qualifications that fit both categories. Why are you making this personal?
P
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
?? what is that supposed to mean
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
I give up over to you TNAVAS
NOTHING this day and time I have seen like the training yards back then. You would not understand unless like the other hundreds of students going through the yard. Riding establishments are not as intense as they were
THis was yard remember we trained there and we can compare it too standard livery yards today they are not the same, you can not base it the same since you have no clue what it was like unless you went there/trained there.
Therefore your interpretation is circumstantial
There were many places like Park Farm back then sadly now they are a shadow of their former self now
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ester
Not slacking multitasking
It means that most of the people training for their AI are not at one of the places you have listed, particularly as some of them don't even exist any more!
As you say yourself but you were talking earlier like these 'training yards' still exist and are producing excellent AIs, when the truth is they don't exist like that any more.
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ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Okay I have better things to do that argue the *******This thread is going no where.
be positive
Well-Known Member
The type of yard you describe, similar to where I trained, is still there but most students do not train in that environment now most go to college or uni and do not learn what the real world is like, they learn in classrooms, ride in arenas with health and safety a priority, no riding in from fields leading 2 each side, everything changed when colleges started doing equine courses, most commercial yards now struggle to get students or WP's in for training.
PolarSkye
Well-Known Member
I give up over to you TNAVAS
Riding establishments are not as intense as they were
THis was yard rememebr we trained there and we can compare it too standard livery yards today they are not the same, you can not base it the smae since you have no clue what it was like.
Right . . . and this is my first time at the rodeo. Ha!
I'm 50 years old - I've been around the block a time or two myself . . . I have eyes in my head and a brain between my ears . . . most of the horsey people I know have been in this game for a long time . . . stop patronizing and recognize that other people might actually have a flipping clue.
My fuse is pretty short these days . . . and you've just lit it. Your condescending, know-it-all attitude (and Tnavas' while we're at it) gets right on my wick . . . I've tried to be patient and accommodating and polite. I've tried (really flipping hard) to be non partisan. You, however, seem to have an axe to grind . . . I don't like axes. Debate? Fine. Cant? Not so much.
P
ester
Not slacking multitasking
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Sadly I know, it was hard work back then but I loved it (part from the D/xia) bit, I now have 9 horses to do daily on my own and I can tell you running this yard for one day is NOTHING compared to 1 day at PF. One whole day here is less than 1/2 a day at PF. Battlerswells field took around 20 minutes to walk to one way to get horses in, I was so fit and skinny in those days
wish i could turn back the clock
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Tnavas
Well-Known Member
May not be in the numbers but they do still exist, are still taking in students from all over the world and are still known worldwide by equestrian employment agencies
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Yes, which is why I said most won't, a lucky few will.
_GG_
Well-Known Member
The vast majority of posters are trying to be helpful to the OP. Then there are two posters banging on about yards from 30 years ago which is completely irrelevant, coming across as incredibly patronising and condescending and showing a total inability to be open to alternative methods of training. HGA-12 and TNAVAS, if you love the BHS exams so much, stop representing BHS qualified trainers so poorly on here. You are not coming across as the kind of people I'd want teaching anyone!
PolarSkye
Well-Known Member
Known is not necessarily the same thing as effective. GCSEs and A levels are "known" as qualifications in this country to fit young people ready for work . . . yet we have many corporations saying that these certificates (as well as degrees) don't ready young adults for the work place.
Just because you give someone a certificate, doesn't mean they're actually ready to do the job at hand - whatever that job is.
P
_GG_
Well-Known Member
And I have a combination of both growing up with hugely experienced horsemen and women and training at one of Europe's largest and most prestigious equine training centres. None would be very impressed with some of the attitudes on here.
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
And the very reason why most professionals and yards will not employ college leavers. Sadly they don't have a clue when they get in the workplace.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Try reading previous posters they were saying the AI is worth nothing and any numpty person can do it which is why we responded. How would you like it if someone started saying your qualification was worth nothing and meant nothing to clients coming or looking for an instructor.
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Tnavas
Well-Known Member
Read the earlier posts, helpful?!!! certainly not and yes we are defending the BHS system as a result of the slagging that one person gave it. Don't forget, that we the people who qualified all those years ago are the coaches, that coached the coaches that now coach you. We were taught by older people but we had respect for our elders unlike the modern generation.
As a professional coach who had a commercial riding school I only hired BHS qualified coaches, because the general public only want their children or themselves taught by qualified people. 300+ people a week can't all be wrong
It also reduces my insurance premiums! I know what I'm getting, my riders get taught correctly and my school ponies and horses remain well schooled.
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't slate the BHS system but have always viewed the AI qualification as the first rung on a ladder. I'm assuming that it still stands for 'Assistant Instructor', I don't really understand why anyone would stop at that point rather than progressing to II?
When looking for a coach/trainer I always put more store by their own competition
results rather than paper qualifications.
When looking for a coach/trainer I always put more store by their own competition
results rather than paper qualifications.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
So here we have the criteria for UKCC
UK Coaching Certificates (UKCCs) are qualifications designed to raise the level of coaching skills throughout the UK in all sports.
Recognised by the Qualifications Credit Framework (QCF), all three levels are endorsed by Sports Coach UK. They are designed for coaching only and do not recognise horse care or riding skills. In these areas, BHS qualifications remain the major qualifications and when coupled with UKCCs, show that those within the industry have the necessary all-round equestrian skills and knowledge.
The first three levels of UK Coaching Certificates are:
• Level 1 Coaching Assistant (below PTT level)
• Level 2 (PTT level)
• Level 3 (Intermediate Teaching Test level)
NOTE The UKCC coach has not proved that they can ride or help you with the care of your horse, your BHS coach can! Which may mean they can't help you with saddle fit or if you have the right bit.
There really is no difference, except the BHS person has proved they have ALL ROUND knowledge.
Oh and what is the recommended reading for the UKCC exams? The BHS books........
UK Coaching Certificates (UKCCs) are qualifications designed to raise the level of coaching skills throughout the UK in all sports.
Recognised by the Qualifications Credit Framework (QCF), all three levels are endorsed by Sports Coach UK. They are designed for coaching only and do not recognise horse care or riding skills. In these areas, BHS qualifications remain the major qualifications and when coupled with UKCCs, show that those within the industry have the necessary all-round equestrian skills and knowledge.
The first three levels of UK Coaching Certificates are:
• Level 1 Coaching Assistant (below PTT level)
• Level 2 (PTT level)
• Level 3 (Intermediate Teaching Test level)
NOTE The UKCC coach has not proved that they can ride or help you with the care of your horse, your BHS coach can! Which may mean they can't help you with saddle fit or if you have the right bit.
There really is no difference, except the BHS person has proved they have ALL ROUND knowledge.
Oh and what is the recommended reading for the UKCC exams? The BHS books........
daffy44
Well-Known Member
My goodness! I bet this was more than the OP bargained for! The BHS system is not for everyone, but as with every system, there is good and bad within it. Different clients will want different things from their trainers, and will choose accordingly, as someone said earlier (eventingmum?) training is a threeway relationship between the rider, trainer and horse, and the chemistry has to be right.
I would stress that appropriate insurance and current first aid are a necessity for any trainer as a starting point. I think its one of the great things about the BD list of trainers, is that you can be sure of these requirements as well as any other qualifications.
I would stress that appropriate insurance and current first aid are a necessity for any trainer as a starting point. I think its one of the great things about the BD list of trainers, is that you can be sure of these requirements as well as any other qualifications.
JFTDWS
+++ Out of Cheese Error +++
Unfortunately, no matter how much you wail about how hard it was for you, I'm entitled to that opinion, and I remain entitled to express it.
I can't speak for clients generally, but I can speak for myself (and, to an extent, acquaintances with whom I've had similar discussions). The AI means nothing to me, in my capacity as a client of freelance instructors. That's fact - and you can't just shout about how unfair it is and make that fact disappear.
The OP asked about whether the BHS or UKCC qualifications would be a bonus if she were to become a freelance instructor, not in an RS. She asked what people look for. My posts answered that question, from my perspective, that the qualifications mean nothing to me when looking for an instructor.
I'm not sure why you feel I should be under an obligation to promote the exam system or the BHS or AIs generally. I'm entitled to my own opinions.
FfionWinnie
Well-Known Member
You are doing a great job of proving yourself to be like SOME of the numpty AIs ONE poster mentioned ONCE.
What a bore you are being!
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teapot
Well-Known Member
Actually the ukcc level 2 DOES require knowledge of aspects of horse care - digestion, fitting of tack, fittening, anatomy including all aspects of the hoof, recognising a lame horse etc etc.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
No you are not obliged to promote the exam system or the BHS or AI's generally but neither do you have the right to brand folks as numpties or disrespect a system that has stood the test of time for 70 odd years. Bear in mind that the coaches that currently coach were probably coached by the coaches that we coached many years ago. Equestrian riders throughout the UK owe a considerable amount to the foresight, hardwork and dedication of the BHS.
I wonder how many of you are members to make use of the Public Liability Insurance?
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
What I wrote in my post was copied verbatim from their site. They do not cover horsecare or riding, they are riding coaching only