teaching rein back......

georgiegirl

georgiegirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 August 2004
Messages
2,458
Visit site
as its been many many moons since george was a youngster (and my memory is rubbish as to how we did it!) Im after peoples hints/tips/tricks for teaching a young horse rein back.

Autumn is 6 now and doing well on the flat as well as BE90's and discovery classes so im pretty sure shes about ready to learn.

Tried tonight with a helper on the floor. Closed hands around the reins and leg on = llama impression (poor autumn didnt understand) although we did get a couple of steps back with helper pushing her back from the front end. Didnt try too much as didnt want to confuse and upset her.

So.....does it sound like im going along the right lines? any other hints/tips to try?

thankyou!

*Edited by admin* See how Michael Eilberg teaches his horses to rein back: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/features/how-to-teach-your-horse-rein-back-509828
 
Have to say that rein back doesn't enter BE tests until Novice level (though not sure about BD) so I wonder if it might be worth waiting until she's more developed and working well in a more advanced outline.

However, this is they way my classical trainer taught me.... make sure you have a good confident walk going and can get perfect square halts and when you do that the horse stays in it's outline and on the bit. The horse simply can't manage a rein back to the best of it's abililty unless the weight is well balanced on all four legs (i.e. they are square) and they are correctly on the bit. Make sure your halts have implusion and confidence, look up when you are doing them. Make sure you halt with your legs well behind the girth, holding the horse between them, keep the contact. Provide the aid to walk, but think backwards with your seat and very gently roll your fingers over the reins with your hands. (You could also apply gentle multiple squeezes with your legs still well behind the girth and if she starts to veer to the side make sure you straighten her with pressure from the relevant leg). That should (theoretically) do it! I think the thinking backwards bit is key with a young horse, if your body is suggesting backwards backwards backwards she should pick up on it. Also, holding the horse with your legs firmly helps to give them the confidence, you may need to feel almost like you are lifting her into it!
 
Last edited:
dont know if this will help because it was not really designed for dressage use... but perhaps you could adapt it.
Firstly teach the word "back" to her, on the ground, you start a horse by lunging and using words so the same can apply to this exercise, once she has some understanding of the word back you can halt her squarely and keeping a good contact press down in the stirrups alternately, you could probably change this to placing both legs slightly further back on her tummy as that is more acceptable for dressage, anyway whatever you choose just make sure you are consistent. Give a little niggle with the rein (this will be dropped later on) and say "back" - this too will be dropped later on, now if you are really clever you can do this on grass and if you get the slightest of backwards motion (not necessarily a full footstep but just the weight shifting backwards) drop your reins and allow her to eat!!! repeating this process your horse will put two and two together very quickly, my horse learnt to go backwards in three days and now he doesnt have to have his grass reward either, he picks up on my foot pressure and goes backwards smoothly and willingly.
 
Providing a walk on aid to ask a horse to rein back doesn't make much sense to me, so I doubt it will to a horse either.

A good, square halt is preferable. The contact should be there, don't drop your reins, but equally do not not pull back on them. The rein back should come from your seat, not your hands.

So, ride a forward walk into a square (or as near as) halt. Think about lightening your seat, and taking your weight onto your knees, bringing your lower leg slightly back and into a squeeze. If the contact is consistent, shifting your weight like this will mean the logical direction to move is back. Logical being the operative word, many horses aren't.

An on-foot 'guide' is great at keeping the rein back straight for a youngster or horse that is learning.
 
I started from the ground by;

1 making sure she was square on all fours
2 push fingers into chest and say 'back' continually until they move
as soon as they move dont follow them, release the pressure and reward with a pat
3 repeat with pressure on chest and gradually they will go back on command,

I repeated this every day for about a week 10-15 mins and she was backing up lovely.
I then got in the saddle my legs alternated going back and forth behind girth whilst saying back, hands are still (i did jiggle them but not pull the first few times). As soon as they stepped back i reward and repeat.

My mares quick to learn and now she backs up lovely!

Goodluck!
 
I find that lightening my seat and putting my legs slightly back makes rein back far easier. You need to lighten your seat to allow them room to move back into, that doesn't quite make sense maybe, but I know what I mean :)
 
nikkimariet said:
Providing a walk on aid to ask a horse to rein back doesn't make much sense to me, so I doubt it will to a horse either.
Click to expand...

How ironic. When replying to this post I had actually referred to one of Podhajsky's books (former director of the Spanish Riding School) as it is always a challenge correctly conveying tacit knowledge such as this clearly in writing. And to apply the aid for walk is exactly what he had said amongst other aids to generate the rein back (which I also tried to explain). It obv made sense to him and the SRS riders and my classical trainer who trained with him, and (at the bottom of the pile) me and my horse. But of course each to their own.

I was only trying to help OP and the great thing about this forum is that there are lots of people out there with different methods to help you, you can get lots of view points and choose which ones you want to apply. Now, sarcasm of course, is often lost on horses!!! :D
 
makes sense to me and mine SF!!

i think its about giving the back somewhere to go as they really have to engage their stomach muscles and put their back RIGHT up to do a good, diagonal ,rein back.

ETA-i know exactly what Nik was trying to say as we read the post together last night....there is no point using the same leg aid for walk on, as rein back, why make it complicated. legs much further back, and a light seat for the RB makes it a clear distinction.as presumably your walk on aid is leg in normal position and weight still in saddle. there must be a contact for both, so how would the horse know whether you mean go or stop if the forward aid sometimes meant back?!

its a bit like canter transitions, i teach mine that from canter,outside rein and soft thigh=trot, outside rein and containing thigh=walk and both hands and containing thigh=halt. keep it simple with clear differences to give the horse the best chance of getting it right.
 
Last edited:
I disagree with leaving teaching it until it's required in a test. I made this mistake with shoulder-in once unpon a time and as a result all my horses learn shoulder-in (or at least shoulder-fore) from 4yo.

Outside of a test rein-back is a vital skill for a horse as there many situations in which you may have to back up a few steps eg. opening a gate and in an ideal world the horse should recognise the command 'back' and a bit of pressure on the chest from basic foal-handling days onwards. Apart from anything else it's part of basic manners. This makes it much easier to teach when you start from the saddle.

There was a good article with Emile Faurie in one of the magazines this month which included rein-back. He said that the Germans practice it until they can back a horse up the whole long side of the arena! :eek: A few steps is good enough for me but as soon as a good halt is established they should learn RB.

I am really struggling to get this through to an older horse who is working elementary-ish in all other areas but seems to have had rein back completely missed out of his education. The penny is taking a long time to drop! As for aids, I'm pretty much with PS one this one ;).
 
Hels_Bells said:
How ironic. When replying to this post I had actually referred to one of Podhajsky's books (former director of the Spanish Riding School) as it is always a challenge correctly conveying tacit knowledge such as this clearly in writing. And to apply the aid for walk is exactly what he had said amongst other aids to generate the rein back (which I also tried to explain). It obv made sense to him and the SRS riders and my classical trainer who trained with him, and (at the bottom of the pile) me and my horse. But of course each to their own.

I was only trying to help OP and the great thing about this forum is that there are lots of people out there with different methods to help you, you can get lots of view points and choose which ones you want to apply. Now, sarcasm of course, is often lost on horses!!! :D
Click to expand...

If Alois Podhajsky says apply the leg aid for walk then that is what you do - he is my hero! His books though a little long winded at times are my bibles. If in doubt I read his books.

How I ride rein back.

Quality walk into a quality Halt. Maintain the halt and contact. Then tilt top of pelvis slightly forward - lightening the seat, close the leg and ride the horse forward into the closed hand. The energy should reach the hand and go backwards in diagonal steps.
 
Hells Bells - I was not being sarcastic, I was trying to be helpful. There is no point in using the same aid and expecting two different outcomes. The only outcome would be a confused horse.
 
nikkimariet said:
Hells Bells - I was not being sarcastic, I was trying to be helpful. There is no point in using the same aid and expecting two different outcomes. The only outcome would be a confused horse.
Click to expand...

Not so - the difference is that in walk you allow with your hand for the horse to step forward - when you apply the aid for rein back you apply it into a closed hand.
 
to my mind, and clearly many others, there is still scope for confusion, especially (as gamebird says) the horse should learn the RB at a relatively young age.....an age when the contact in walk is probably not perfect (esp as young horses should not be doing truely collected walk work IMO), and thus its a fine line between maintaing a contact in the transition up to walk, and a closed hand preventing the horse going forward-to a 3/4yo mind its not clear enough IMHO.

legs further back and a lightened seat makes it a bigger diff and pings the lightbulb that "ah this is not walk on, this is diff" from the word go, so there are few head in air aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh moments, and no sluggish and unsure transitions up to walk when requested.

as training progresses, the RB should eventually come from the seat and leg only. if a closed hand is the only thing differentiating between walk on and RB, that can NEVER happen. if they learn to step back off a light seat and legs back, it can, and then the RB becomes more enagaged and shows more sit.
 
Im with PS on this - there must be clear different aids for every movement that you perform on your horse, not just rein back. Everyone teaches their horse differently which is fair enough, however if you start not having a big enough difference between comands then you will end up with a confused horse.

RB aids should be light seat, weight slightly in the knees, legs slightly behind the girth and a closed hand. The halt needs to be square / almost square and the contact needs to be consistant and not pulling on the horses mouth. The reason for the light seat/legs back is to allow the horse to come up in the back and move backwards without being restricted. Having someone on the ground to start with is essential IMO so that horse understands what you are asking. I find that you only need someone there a couple of times and then your horse should pick it up quite easily.
 
I'm confused. . .HB's directions also include legs back and tilted pelvis/light seat and think backwards' . .so what's the difference? It's all about which doors you open and close, like any other aid. The aid to walk bit is surely about activating the hind legs. . .which is always what the leg does.

To be pedantic though, ;), the sequence of legs means technically the horse trots backwards, not walks. :)

I do think it can be helpful to use a voice aid and/or help on the ground, especially if the rider is a bit unsure, as most horses have this already installed so it is a case of making the connection to the ridden aid. It's not ' cheating' to make it easier for the horse to learn!
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
to my mind, and clearly many others, there is still scope for confusion, especially (as gamebird says) the horse should learn the RB at a relatively young age.....an age when the contact in walk is probably not perfect (esp as young horses should not be doing truely collected walk work IMO), and thus its a fine line between maintaing a contact in the transition up to walk, and a closed hand preventing the horse going forward-to a 3/4yo mind its not clear enough IMHO.

legs further back and a lightened seat makes it a bigger diff and pings the lightbulb that "ah this is not walk on, this is diff" from the word go, so there are few head in air aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh moments, and no sluggish and unsure transitions up to walk when requested.

as training progresses, the RB should eventually come from the seat and leg only. if a closed hand is the only thing differentiating between walk on and RB, that can NEVER happen. if they learn to step back off a light seat and legs back, it can, and then the RB becomes more enagaged and shows more sit.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this esp 2nd paragraph.
 
Not going to get into the aids side of the argument but I have always taught backing initially with the help of voice command 'baaaack up' and a wall or gate infront of them so that there is no option but to go back. Then slowly wean them off the wall/gate etc.

I agree with teaching them sooner rather than later, don't expect a DR test standard 'back' from a 4 yr old but the concept needs to be there to get you out of tight spots! IMHO.
 
When I taught Henry how to rein back (he couldnt do it when I bought him), stopped, leant forward in the saddle a bit, and asked for stop and go and the same time (ie leg on and half halt with reins) hey presto one horse walking backwards.

It probably wasnt quite right, but he went backwards. He was a very clever horse though, so I think that helped a bit!
 
Thanks for the replies guys they have been really good!

When I've done it in the past I have always lightened my seat and use my legs slightly further back (was taught this way in germany) however the instructor I had yesterday said not to do that and she is more of the closed hand thought - to me (and i know it will feel this way because the horse has never done it before) it felt yucky and a bit harsh in front. Ive done so much work with autumn getting her to soften in front and not be heavy in my hand I really felt that way wasnt for us. Autumn just felt very very confused. Just gets very difficult wanting to contradict your instructor....especially when she has helped us out in so many other ways....

I'll have a go this week with lightening my seat and seeing if that helps along with my mum on the ground to act as 'prodder' if need be :)
 
Georgie girl - the closed hand part is not done in a heavy handed blocking way but held so that the horse understands that he is not going into walk but to reinback.

I've never had problems with using the SRS method but on the other hand I don't teach rein back to a young horse. I want them to go forward first and to always be forward thinking. In my mind teaching rein back early may end up with a confused and crooked horse not stepping back diagonally.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top