Tellington-Jones...old school Parelli

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Trakehner

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I was riding today...nasty outside...anyway, I was riding today and one of the riders was having a terrible time with her Arab gelding. There wasn't much he would do anyway that he didn't want to but today really had her frustrated.

She is a big follower of Linda Tellington-Jones...who I see as an early Parelli...same weird "magikal" items to sell you to help train your horse. She had the mystery wand and the mystery rope thing that went around your horse's neck (using it was akin to a western horse neck reining). For some reason, today must have been a really bad one for her and she asked me if I'd get on her gelding.

I put my saddle on her boy, got on and she handed me her white wand..sure looked like a dressage whip to me. Then she put this stiff rope ring around her horse's neck and tells me how to use these "magikal" tools. "Well, alrighty then" I think to myself. Her horse is being a pig, not listening to any of the aids. I ask, "Is that so-and-so at the barn?" She looks away and I use the wand with a nice crack! on his butt. "Oooooo" he says and is now paying attention. We walk a bit and his little Arab mind goes away again. "Are you sure that's not so-and-so?" She looks away again...CRACK! goes the magikal wand on his Arab heinie. "Oh, you want ME to do what you want? Why didn't you say so".

All of a sudden, he's a lovely horse and is listening intently for any aid I care to use. What a great responsive ride. I have her jump up on her boy and he's listening to her nicely too! So, I guess T-J's magikal tools can work, when applied incorrectly.

I think Parelli's the same way, do what he suggests incorrectly and it might just work....but I do consider them cut from the same cloth.
 
Trakehner said:
I was riding today...nasty outside...anyway, I was riding today and one of the riders was having a terrible time with her Arab gelding. There wasn't much he would do anyway that he didn't want to but today really had her frustrated.

She is a big follower of Linda Tellington-Jones...who I see as an early Parelli...same weird "magikal" items to sell you to help train your horse. She had the mystery wand and the mystery rope thing that went around your horse's neck (using it was akin to a western horse neck reining). For some reason, today must have been a really bad one for her and she asked me if I'd get on her gelding.

I put my saddle on her boy, got on and she handed me her white wand..sure looked like a dressage whip to me. Then she put this stiff rope ring around her horse's neck and tells me how to use these "magikal" tools. "Well, alrighty then" I think to myself. Her horse is being a pig, not listening to any of the aids. I ask, "Is that so-and-so at the barn?" She looks away and I use the wand with a nice crack! on his butt. "Oooooo" he says and is now paying attention. We walk a bit and his little Arab mind goes away again. "Are you sure that's not so-and-so?" She looks away again...CRACK! goes the magikal wand on his Arab heinie. "Oh, you want ME to do what you want? Why didn't you say so".

All of a sudden, he's a lovely horse and is listening intently for any aid I care to use. What a great responsive ride. I have her jump up on her boy and he's listening to her nicely too! So, I guess T-J's magikal tools can work, when applied incorrectly.

I think Parelli's the same way, do what he suggests incorrectly and it might just work....but I do consider them cut from the same cloth.
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You have taken the time out to actually try to understand the H U G E differences between the two then. Always great to hear a balanced and informed opinion... O the joys of ignorance... :rolleyes:
 
At the end of the day, I would say it is just like anything else.
Ypou can have the right tools and use them incorrectly so they are inefficient at best and at worst, a total disaster. The same as you don't have to have THE tools to be effective.

The problem is when someone doesn't understand something and wants a quick fix and goes about dealing with it incorrectly. (ie. its not necessarily the parelli system that's a failure as the person that's trying to use it is ineffective).

I don't know much about Tellington-Jones so can't comment on that.
 
Obviously, having to distract the owner whilst you 'whack' their horse, means that you are very aware that they would not consent to their horse being treated this way.

If you want to hit your own horse there is nothing anyone can do to stop you, but to hit someone else's horse is reprehensible.
 
And I'm sure she described the tools as "magikal" :rolleyes: Pretty damn to rude to distract the rider whilst you cracked their horse over the arse too :rolleyes:
 
Trakehner said:
I put my saddle on her boy, got on and she handed me her white wand..sure looked like a dressage whip to me. Then she put this stiff rope ring around her horse's neck and tells me how to use these "magikal" tools. "Well, alrighty then" I think to myself. Her horse is being a pig, not listening to any of the aids. I ask, "Is that so-and-so at the barn?" She looks away and I use the wand with a nice crack! on his butt. "Oooooo" he says and is now paying attention. We walk a bit and his little Arab mind goes away again. "Are you sure that's not so-and-so?" She looks away again...CRACK! goes the magikal wand on his Arab heinie. "Oh, you want ME to do what you want? Why didn't you say so".
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:confused: I'm so glad your saddle fitted this horse correctly. ;) Oh yes the 'crack' with the whip'... never fails. :( :confused:
 
AndySpooner said:
Obviously, having to distract the owner whilst you 'whack' their horse, means that you are very aware that they would not consent to their horse being treated this way.

If you want to hit your own horse there is nothing anyone can do to stop you, but to hit someone else's horse is reprehensible.
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I agree with this.
 
Oh bully for you, you took in on yourself to hit someone else's horse when you knew they wouldn't want that, and you're such a wonderful rider and much better than them at riding their horse. You also put your saddle on, so what luck that it fitted her horse. You must be a pleasure to know.
Quick fix, and she may end up dealing with the consequences while you sit on the sidelines congratulating yourself that you always knew she couldn't cope with her horse.
"For some reason, today must have been a really bad one for her and she asked me if I'd get on her gelding."
So the horse was having an off day, that's no excuse to throw a saddle on that's not fitted and start belting him. I hope she finds this thread and recognises you, and realises what a bad idea it was to ask you to get on.
 
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Note to self:

Don't let Trakehner ride my horse!

For what it's worth, LTJ is held in high regard by the Pignons. And they don't suffer fools around horses.
 
OP: Fell free to come and ride my horses in a few year's time. I won't even have to look away if they need a crack on the bum to behave themselves and stop taking the pee out of anyone. You're on my wavelength.
 
Maesfen said:
OP: Fell free to come and ride my horses in a few year's time. I won't even have to look away if they need a crack on the bum to behave themselves and stop taking the pee out of anyone. You're on my wavelength.
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I wish I hadn't read this. What a completely depressing start to 2011! :(
 
amandap said:
I wish I hadn't read this. What a completely depressing start to 2011! :(
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I'd be a lot more depressed if my horses didn't do as they were told and had some manners though.
With the proviso that they knew how to do what was being asked of course. Bad manners I won't put up with but training something, I have all the time in the world for which is why, if they know how to do something they should damn well do it when I ask, not if and when they feel like it.
 
Maesfen said:
I'd be a lot more depressed if my horses didn't do as they were told and had some manners though.
With the proviso that they knew how to do what was being asked of course. Bad manners I won't put up with but training something, I have all the time in the world for which is why, if they know how to do something they should damn well do it when I ask, not if and when they feel like it.
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Why should they? :confused: Do you do everything you know how to do when asked or told? What right have we to not only expect compliance, but feel we have a right to dish out painful punishment when we 'think' a horse should know better or is taking the pee etc. etc.

If a horse is trained properly and understands cues given and doesn't comply there will be a reason in the horses head that has absolutely nothing to do with 'getting one up' on that human. We (collective we) need to see other living creatures truly as our equals. :mad:
We might be able to 'control' much in this world but we are arrogant to our own detriment in the end imo.
 
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amandap said:
Why should they? :confused: Do you do everything you know how to do when asked or told? What right have we to not only expect compliance, but feel we have a right to dish out painful punishment when we 'think' a horse should know better or is taking the pee etc. etc.

If a horse is trained properly and understanads cues given and doesn't comply there will be a reason in the horses head that has absolutely nothing to do with 'getting one up' on that human. We (collective we) need to see other living creatures truly as our equals. :mad:
We might be able to 'control' much in this world but we are arrogant to our own detriment in the end imo.
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Well said.
 
I'd crack my own over the backside if it was deliberately ignoring me and it knew damn well what it was supposed to be doing. It's a big strong animal and it has to do what it's told or it'd be dangerous.

Blimey. What a storm in a teacup.
 
Jess, I find the OP's arrogance difficult to stomach tbh........she's coming on a forum bragging about belting someone elses horse, inferring that this makes her 'better' than the horses owner.
THAT is what I find objectionable.
 
hitting a horse is one thing but to do it behind the owners back is out of order, you knew she didn't want her horse hit so you distracted her, that's where the problem is for me, not because you dared to smack a horse.

also you put your saddle on it, didn't she already have a saddle on? why did you put your saddle on instead of his own?

if you felt the horse needed a smack then you should have just done it and if she had told you not to do it again then don't, however she may not have minded so much. if i was her and found out what you did (distraction) then i would be fuming with you.
 
sleepingdragon10 said:
Jess, I find the OP's arrogance difficult to stomach tbh........she's coming on a forum bragging about belting someone elses horse, inferring that this makes her 'better' than the horses owner.
THAT is what I find objectionable.
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I think she was trying to poke a little bit of fun at the 'mystical' world of natural hosemanship. Which usually goes down a storm TBF

I expect the owner MAY have asked her to get on because they thought she might be able to sort it out. I ask my friend to get on my horse when I get totally stuck because she is much better than me. My horse does go better for her. I don't like to assume the worst of someone because it is so hard to infer a tone from written text.

And FWIW, I used to ride a pony who was a little sod because he was never given any discipline. I used to wait till she was out of sight and give that a smack over the arse as well. I don't feel bad about it at all. I was always fair and he knew where he stood with me.
 
Cuffey said:
This is a matter of safety--a horse disobedient on the road and you could both be dead so yes I expect a horse to obey my leg instantly.
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This horse clearly has problems understanding humans in my understanding of the op. If a horse isn't trained to reliably respond to the leg when asked and consistantly is not reponding or is even objecting to cues, then what on earth would it be doing ridden on a public road?

There are times when urgency needs to be transmitted to a horse, of course, but to assume a horse is being awkward is imo not helpful.
I take exception to the attitude to the horse even more than the attitude to the owner myself. Both are unhelpful imo. :(
 
PMSL - I see SO many posts over each year where people say 'my horse walks all over me' or 'he's dangerous to lead' or 'I can't ride him', and then ones where its 'OMG you HIT your horse - call the RSPCA!' The two go together.

I'll give my guys a slap if they need it (with my hand - as a sting), or a crack with the whip if they're being naughty, and guess what - over time they turn into lovely well behaved members of society who rarely put a hoof out of place. They run to me in the field, stick their heads into the headcollar when it's not even them I want, sidle up to me on the mounting block (come on mum, let's go!), and are nuzzly and happy to be loved. I always give warnings before any discipline, have great patience with 'I don't understand', reward every effort in the right direction, and shower them with love when they're being good. After a year or so, I probably have to tell them off at most once a year, and we're all safe and having fun the rest of the time.

You should see the boss pony in the field - a light slap from me is nothing to what she does if they annoy her, yet the principle is the same - gentle shock, no actual harm done, and the message given. Both she & I give warning first (me NO, she ears back, swish tail), and they obey both her and me.

This afternoon my niece and nephew are coming to ride a pony who used to spin and kick all humans when being led, bucked for England in the school, didn't like people and wanted her own way all the time. Now, she'll look after a child, lead beautifully, and behave perfectly. All it took was never giving in, being very 'black and white' about right and wrong, a little well-timed discipline, and lots of love when she was good. She used to sulk when worked, now she sulks if you don't work her!

So maybe you shouldn't hit someone else's horse without permission, fair enough, but a couple of cracks with the whip aren't the end of the world, if they bring results.
 
I didn't see any mention of the RSPCA till your post. :D

Oh well, I hope all you whip crackers allow your horses to give you a good slap when they feel you are being unreasonable or not doing what you're told. :p :rolleyes:
 
Ditto MaS and anyone else in that vein.

Anyone who thinks that the puny power a human can give with the odd smack with a hand or with a stick needs a lesson in physics (biology and chemistry, just for the full picture). Horses dish out far 'worse' and with far, far more power than we can muster.

Disclaimer: I'm not talking about the sustained physical abuse of a horse (or any creature). I'm talking about a smack or a hit with a stick.

Oh, and as for the comment about "Oh well, I hope all you whip crackers allow your horses to give you a good slap when they feel you are being unreasonable or not doing what you're told." - I don't know about your horse, but if ours feel so inclined, they let us know in their own not-so-sweet ways :rolleyes::eek:
 
amandap said:
Oh well, I hope all you whip crackers allow your horses to give you a good slap when they feel you are being unreasonable or not doing what you're told. :p :rolleyes:
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So out of interest how do you deal with your horse when it is being an ignorant pig and is trying to barge you out of the way or not listening to your leg?
 
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