Tension in Dressage

Melodra said:
Wouldn’t change them for the world though! As you say, lovely responsive rides - he is such a fast learner too! It’s a blessing to ride a horse who loves to work, but with that I guess we have to accept some over excitement on occasion
Click to expand...

Sometimes I would (Hahaha kidding)

She seems to be chilling out a bit now (thankfully) and in my lesson the other day pulled out a lovely, relaxed (for the most part) looking test. Perhaps she's finally decided its a much easier life than trying to spin/rush off/spook/jump sideways! I can but pray! We are only doing UA prelims currently but I think she'll do better at novice when she calms a tad as it'll keep her mind occupied. Unfortunately she's a bit like a magpie and always on the look out for something if there's a gap of "doing"
 
I have ridden several of both types, there are huge variations of both!
My current horse is quite tense/hot and this manifests at times with uneven steps, tightness over the back, lacking lateral suppleness etc - she has the wow factor so to most people starting out they would never spot those things but to an experienced judge they see it a mile away and rightly so mark me down accordingly!
Rhythm is the first point in the scales of training so if tension affects that my scores should reflect it
If she was calm and I was kicking along but the rhythm/ submission etc was good then I would have expect that to mark higher as tension affects too many of the basic requirements.
This is why Valegro smashed so many records ... he does everything with a relaxed attitude.
I wouldn’t underestimate how much of an issue tension is when it comes to dressage, you need positive tension as you move up the levels but the basic requirements must be met to get a reasonable score.
I have learnt over the years not to feel threatened by the flashiest horse in the warm up it’s often the least appealing ones that do a clean, rhythmic test that smash all the flash warm bloods out of the water!
 
Maesto's Girl said:
Sometimes I would (Hahaha kidding)

She seems to be chilling out a bit now (thankfully) and in my lesson the other day pulled out a lovely, relaxed (for the most part) looking test. Perhaps she's finally decided its a much easier life than trying to spin/rush off/spook/jump sideways! I can but pray! We are only doing UA prelims currently but I think she'll do better at novice when she calms a tad as it'll keep her mind occupied. Unfortunately she's a bit like a magpie and always on the look out for something if there's a gap of "doing"
Click to expand...

Haha, there was definitely more for him to think about in his second test, which I think definitely helped in him not going off piste this time, he’s much better when his mind is more occupied!
 
Littlebear said:
I have ridden several of both types, there are huge variations of both!
My current horse is quite tense/hot and this manifests at times with uneven steps, tightness over the back, lacking lateral suppleness etc - she has the wow factor so to most people starting out they would never spot those things but to an experienced judge they see it a mile away and rightly so mark me down accordingly!
Rhythm is the first point in the scales of training so if tension affects that my scores should reflect it
If she was calm and I was kicking along but the rhythm/ submission etc was good then I would have expect that to mark higher as tension affects too many of the basic requirements.
This is why Valegro smashed so many records ... he does everything with a relaxed attitude.
I wouldn’t underestimate how much of an issue tension is when it comes to dressage, you need positive tension as you move up the levels but the basic requirements must be met to get a reasonable score.
I have learnt over the years not to feel threatened by the flashiest horse in the warm up it’s often the least appealing ones that do a clean, rhythmic test that smash all the flash warm bloods out of the water!
Click to expand...

Yes, can see that viewpoint and certainly agree regarding the issues tension causes. But I don’t feel that a horse leaning on the hands as the many I saw doing is being soft or submissive at all. It’s a form of evasion, as is ignoring basic leg aids. I really don’t think kicking has any place on any horse in any sphere. It’s plain wrong and if I had to kick my horse for it to move I would wonder what was going wrong....
 
Melodra said:
Yes, can see that viewpoint and certainly agree regarding the issues tension causes. But I don’t feel that a horse leaning on the hands as the many I saw doing is being soft or submissive at all. It’s a form of evasion, as is ignoring basic leg aids. I really don’t think kicking has any place on any horse in any sphere. It’s plain wrong and if I had to kick my horse for it to move I would wonder what was going wrong....
Click to expand...

I agree, I don’t agree with kicking along I don’t imagine anybody does I’m just musing over why one would score higher than the other
What level are you competing at and is it bd or unaff ? Sorry if you’ve mentioned and I’ve missed it!
 
Melodra said:
Yes, can see that viewpoint and certainly agree regarding the issues tension causes. But I don’t feel that a horse leaning on the hands as the many I saw doing is being soft or submissive at all. It’s a form of evasion, as is ignoring basic leg aids. I really don’t think kicking has any place on any horse in any sphere. It’s plain wrong and if I had to kick my horse for it to move I would wonder what was going wrong....
Click to expand...

Ok I'll play devils advocate for these Lazy horses. What would you do if you got on one that was slow or did respond to your first leg aid?
 
madamebonnie said:
Ok I'll play devils advocate for these Lazy horses. What would you do if you got on one that was slow or did respond to your first leg aid?
Click to expand...
Littlebear said:
I agree, I don’t agree with kicking along I don’t imagine anybody does I’m just musing over why one would score higher than the other
What level are you competing at and is it bd or unaff ? Sorry if you’ve mentioned and I’ve missed it!
Click to expand...


It’s unaff Prelim on him, just introducing him to dressage, which as someone said above might account for the scoring...but tbh not looking for excuses. Genuinely interested in why one would be seen as more correct than the other.
 
Melodra said:
It’s unaff Prelim on him, just introducing him to dressage, which as someone said above might account for the scoring...but tbh not looking for excuses. Genuinely interested in why one would be seen as more correct than the other.
Click to expand...

And you’ve been told, by a few people putting in in a few different ways
 
At the lower levels, I am pretty sure that a horse which swings along in a relaxed rhythm with a soft back and a consistent contact and does an accurate test will always score better than a tense horse- even if it takes a bit of leg to keep said horse doing it.
I am sorry OP if that is not the answer you want (and clearly from your responses it is not) but its just a fact of life.
 
madamebonnie said:
Ok I'll play devils advocate for these Lazy horses. What would you do if you got on one that was slow or did respond to your first leg aid?
Click to expand...

We have been working with a horse who would not go forward at all, blatantly ignored leg aids, written off as lazy. He’d been kicked and schooling whip constantly used and was totally desensitised to it. He was actually not confident and afraid to come forward because someone has punished him for it previously. It’s been a long slow process of reinforcement through praise and reward with him and he is now confident, responsive to the leg, goes forward and enjoys his work.

Seen a few comments dismissing whether a horse should enjoy his work...why would that not be important to them simply because it is not scored? And what is enjoyable for the horse about being kicked around an arena and constantly punished?
 
sportsmansB said:
At the lower levels, I am pretty sure that a horse which swings along in a relaxed rhythm with a soft back and a consistent contact and does an accurate test will always score better than a tense horse- even if it takes a bit of leg to keep said horse doing it.
I am sorry OP if that is not the answer you want (and clearly from your responses it is not) but its just a fact of life.
Click to expand...

You are assuming the other horses I refer to were relaxed and swinging their backs. Sorry but that isn’t achieved by a horse leaning on the rider.
 
Melodra said:
You are assuming the other horses were relaxed and swinging their backs. Sorry but that isn’t achieved by a horse leaning on the rider.
Click to expand...

Oh and “a bit of legging” is not kicking.

And as I’ve stated above a thousand times, I’m not looking for and answer and have received a number of constructive comments and private messages.

But tbh I’m not ever going to agree with someone who believes a horse leaning on the hands and being booted along is an example of a soft, submissive horse, no.
 
Last edited:
Melodra said:
Yes, can see that viewpoint and certainly agree regarding the issues tension causes. But I don’t feel that a horse leaning on the hands as the many I saw doing is being soft or submissive at all. It’s a form of evasion, as is ignoring basic leg aids. I really don’t think kicking has any place on any horse in any sphere. It’s plain wrong and if I had to kick my horse for it to move I would wonder what was going wrong....
Click to expand...
It can also be difficult to get well prepared, balanced transitions and ride an accurate test in a 20x40 arena. If a rider has to sacrifice a bit of forwardness for balance and a regular rhythm at prelim, I don't think that's the end of the world.

My horse is pretty chilled but has potential for trouble in his walk. If he's tense it becomes lateral. This can happen with or without seat and rein contact. We can stroll along on the buckle and if he feels tension his walk degenerates. My point is that tension can be serious to the extent that it affects the very basics of rhythm and regularity of gaits.
 
I would suggest you volunteer to write for some judges at your local venue, you will learn heaps from them about the how’s and whys of scoring and they will answer any questions you have.
I judge and have so many different writers that volunteer to learn and always answer anything they want to know, it’s so useful especially if you’re serious about climbing the ladder in dressage!
I think there is a point where you will always have some question marks over how someone did well over someone else and there will always be variations between judges but try to absorb as many opinions as you can to learn x
 
Its obviously not really other peoples points of view that you are looking for, as you shoot them down, but it is difficult to offer any further insights as we didn't see either your horse or the other horses to be able to make any kind of comparison.
Unfortunately, whether we love it or don't, or its right or its wrong, in most cases in a low level test- tension (and inaccuracy - not suggesting you are inaccurate though, its just a second example!) will take marks away across the board. At prelim it is allowed for a horse to be a bit 'poll low'.

My SJ got her best marks when we did hard tests which permitted her to show much more fun stuff like cantering centre lines and doing leg yields and mediums- so just look forward to those days to come and work on the relaxation in the meantime. Many suggested sound proof ears to me for her to help relax but they made not one iota of difference lol
 
Melodra said:
We have been working with a horse who would not go forward at all, blatantly ignored leg aids, written off as lazy. He’d been kicked and schooling whip constantly used and was totally desensitised to it. He was actually not confident and afraid to come forward because someone has punished him for it previously. It’s been a long slow process of reinforcement through praise and reward with him and he is now confident, responsive to the leg, goes forward and enjoys his work.

Seen a few comments dismissing whether a horse should enjoy his work...why would that not be important to them simply because it is not scored? And what is enjoyable for the horse about being kicked around an arena and constantly punished?
Click to expand...
It is important for a horse to enjoy his work but how do you score it? Ears forward? Could be spooking. Forward going? Could be running away from the leg. Horses don't wag their tails or smile. Relaxation is a fairly good indicator of a happy and willing horse.

Unaffiliated dressage is a minefield. There are all sorts of riders and horses there. Only the judge has the power that day to judge what is in front of them according to their training and rules. Its not fair to judge riders you see "kicking along". You don't know them or their horses back story. Someone may have unfairly judged you for looking a bit wild in your first test. Just as you are unhappy with the comments on here. It is fair to question why someone is scoring higher but not to judge others riding if you cant take people judging your own.
 
sportsmansB said:
Its obviously not really other peoples points of view that you are looking for, as you shoot them down, but it is difficult to offer any further insights as we didn't see either your horse or the other horses to be able to make any kind of comparison.
Unfortunately, whether we love it or don't, or its right or its wrong, in most cases in a low level test- tension (and inaccuracy - not suggesting you are inaccurate though, its just a second example!) will take marks away across the board. At prelim it is allowed for a horse to be a bit 'poll low'.

My SJ got her best marks when we did hard tests which permitted her to show much more fun stuff like cantering centre lines and doing leg yields and mediums- so just look forward to those days to come and work on the relaxation in the meantime. Many suggested sound proof ears to me for her to help relax but they made not one iota of difference lol
Click to expand...

That’s not really fair though is it, I’ve thanked people a number of times above for their constructive comments. Some I don’t agree with....as I say I will never agreed that an unbalanced horse leaning on the rider’s hands is soft or submissive. I think (and from the messages I’ve had) that some of the well known posters here are also known for arguing black is white as far as new members go ...and they must if they are seriously advocating the above opinion.

That said, yes, the harder work he is doing at home is far more fun for him, he has a stunning medium trot, loves leg yielding and he went so much better in his second test which had more for him to think about. At the moment it is all about experience for him.

It’s also interesting that the first judge did not mark him so harshly for tension, when he did boil over and was actually disobedient so I guess the black and white opinions of some here don’t really hold water in that regard.

It would just have been nice to have some opinions without being misquoted, accused of being sore loser, my horse accused of disobedience in the test etc but hey ho that’s the internet for you!
 
The judges for affiliated dressage and riding club dressage are the same here so the only competition I've done without a qualified judge was at a riding school charity show. It was quite different in that the judge really wanted forward forward forward!
Because it was casual and the warmup was actually in the test arena, due to lack of space the judge gave a bit of commentary during the warm up. This was how I knew she liked people to ride really forward.

Ime at prelim the affiliated judge look for rhythm and balance. The unaffiliated judge wanted so much forward the horses were being pushed out of their rhythm.

The beast was on his winter break so I rode one of the riding school horses. He was a big lumbering 18hh animal, who was very surprised to be asked to move that much. At least when he woke up he was capable of really moving. I felt sorry for the riders with short legged ponies frantically rushing around the arena 😉
 
i havent read all of the comments but the first comment by milliepops nailed it for me. i spent 4 1/2 hours recently writing for a judge with firstly walk trot tests and then prelim. the judge marked what she saw and there were some who were poking their nose but were happy, obedient and the riders(on the whole) made good shapes and were accurate at the markers,,they scored better than the tense horses who were sometimes behind the vertical and opening their mouths and missing markers. if there is a chance why not volunteer to write for a judge so you can see what the judges are looking for. it really helped me to understand my marks....
 
Melodra said:
Thanks for the comments. I would say that if a horse has to be kicked to move forward, that isn't an obedient, responsive horse to me and certainly not enjoying its work. My boy was certainly enjoying himself, ears forward throughout the test, did everything that was asked of him, but was excited. I'm used to subjective judging on other horses and it has also worked in my favour in the past - and overall I'm massively happy with how he went. But I don't see that a horse being booted around an arena is particularly pleasing or should ever be the aim or considered worthy of high scores in dressage.
Click to expand...

If my horse had his ears forward in a test I'd know that he is not paying me a jot of attention and is focused on something else apart from me. I would never take it as a sign of a happy horse, i'd take it as a sign of an unfocused horse in dressage.

If he is showing tension then he isn't relaxed or enjoying his job, he's holding himself in some way that isn't harmonious or relaxing to watch (which is what the end goal should be).

With any of mine, the tense ones have always been marked harder than the kick along ones. The lazy ones might need more aids, but they tend to stay rythmic, balanced and relaxed looking in both their contact and way of going. On a prelim test i always find it much easier to get higher marks on a kick along cob than a floaty paced tense tb.
 
paddi22 said:
If my horse had his ears forward in a test I'd know that he is not paying me a jot of attention and is focused on something else apart from me. I would never take it as a sign of a happy horse, i'd take it as a sign of an unfocused horse in dressage.

If he is showing tension then he isn't relaxed or enjoying his job, he's holding himself in some way that isn't harmonious or relaxing to watch (which is what the end goal should be).

With any of mine, the tense ones have always been marked harder than the kick along ones. The lazy ones might need more aids, but they tend to stay rythmic, balanced and relaxed looking in both their contact and way of going. On a prelim test i always find it much easier to get higher marks on a kick along cob than a floaty paced tense tb.
Click to expand...


Couldn’t disagree with you more.

He clearly was focused as did absolutely everything he was asked, when he was asked. The collective comments remark on his obedience.
 
And surely at the prelim level the horse is at 99% of the other horses WILL be on the forehand, purely because they are starting their dressage journey and won't have the strength behind yet? Judges won't crucify people for this at prelim. As for your point about someone having to kick a horse. A lot of prelim riders will nag with the leg going around, but the horses stay rhythmic and steady in a contact. It's a clumsy aid, but to be honest i nearly prefer it over people fussing and pulling more forward horses into a 'contact'
 
Melodra said:
Couldn’t disagree with you more.

He clearly was focused as did absolutely everything he was asked, when he was asked. The collective comments remark on his obedience.
Click to expand...

well i totally disagree with you. i think you look at any top dressage horses and you can see their ears aren't pointed forward. they are listening and focused on the rider. If your horses ears are forward and very 'happy looking' its mind is elsewhere. When we trained with yogi bresner he said if the ears go forward then the horse is sticking his fingers up at you!

The video below is a calm relaxed horse who loves his job.. at no point do the ears ever lose focus on the rider

 
paddi22 said:
And surely at the prelim level the horse is at 99% of the other horses WILL be on the forehand, purely because they are starting their dressage journey and won't have the strength behind yet? Judges won't crucify people for this at prelim. As for your point about someone having to kick a horse. A lot of prelim riders will nag with the leg going around, but the horses stay rhythmic and steady in a contact. It's a clumsy aid, but to be honest i nearly prefer it over people fussing and pulling more forward horses into a 'contact'
Click to expand...

And a horse at the beginning of its dressage journey could not reasonably be expected to show some tension? You could say the above about any fault/incorrectness at Prelim level on that basis.

More often than that it is the horses on the forehand that are pulled into a contact and heavy on the hands. A tense horse needs riding forwards into the contact.
 
Watching tense horses is horrible .
The aim of dressage is harmony and without harmony there’s nothing .
As the rider of an impressively tense but very talented horse I did my years at the coalface of tension .
I never got her cracked in the arena she would work well at home and at clinic but she knew what a horse trail was and that was that .
But boy did I learn from her I learned exactly what not to do how to forget learning how to ride tests and learn how to train I never had a tense horse I could not settle since .
Your horse is who he is enjoy him and seek to train him to be the best he can .
I know all about the frustration of seeing a dope on rope being squeezed and half carried round get a better mark but you just have to rise above it .
 
Not forwards? They do at times flick back to listen to the rider, but often forwards as well. Just been looking at images of Valegro, ears often straight forward.
 

Attachments

  • D00C21C8-650E-4502-9A03-C33E0D2915E5.jpeg
    D00C21C8-650E-4502-9A03-C33E0D2915E5.jpeg
    301 KB · Views: 38
Melodra said:
And a horse at the beginning of its dressage journey could not reasonably be expected to show some tension? You could say the above about any fault/incorrectness at Prelim level on that basis.

More often than that it is the horses on the forehand that are pulled into a contact and heavy on the hands. A tense horse needs riding forwards into the contact.
Click to expand...

But you are missing out on basic blocks of training with that line of thinking, you cannot ride a tense horse into a contact unless you have built up the strength behind and the suppleness through the back. You cannot ride a tense horse into a contact, because you have tension being held in the body. You don't ride any horse into a contacrt, you ride the hind end correctly and the front sorts itself out.
 
Melodra said:
Not forwards? They do at times flick back to listen to the rider, but often forwards as well. Just been looking at images of Valegro, ears often straight forward.
Click to expand...

in that example you posted, the ears aren't straight forward, they are pointing up. when you look at any video, they most they go is straight up. never forward
 
Goldenstar said:
Watching tense horses is horrible .
The aim of dressage is harmony and without harmony there’s nothing .
As the rider of an impressively tense but very talented horse I did my years at the coalface of tension .
I never got her cracked in the arena she would work well at home and at clinic but she knew what a horse trail was and that was that .
But boy did I learn from her I learned exactly what not to do how to forget learning how to ride tests and learn how to train I never had a tense horse I could not settle since .
Your horse is who he is enjoy him and seek to train him to be the best he can .
I know all about the frustration of seeing a dope on rope being squeezed and half carried round get a better mark but you just have to rise above it .
Click to expand...


Sure, this is his second ever test in which he showed a huge improvement from his first. Think some of the comments here are a little hard on him. Certainly not worried this is going to be a long term issue, nor was the judge.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top