Terminating permanent loan

[Poppyalfiemoon26]

Hey everyone.
Mai I have had my boy out on permanent loan for 5 years. All had been well until since before Xmas. They don’t tell me anything anymore and I have often find out stuff via a Facebook post. They moved him without telling. They eventually told him me the day before. He has also been poorly a few time. Last year they had lameness issues to which they said after the summer that the farrier thought he had laminitis. They said they had rectified it so I let it be. After the move they stated they had three fields at there diy yard and he was fat coming out of winter. Express my concern due to his previous history of laminitis that they have told me off in a text. Roll on to present time and I had to call the vet out due to him being one on my front feet and he needed box rest. I found out yet again Because of a Facebook post.
I don’t want to upset them but I want to take my horse back. The contract states I can do long as I give written notice.
I have tried to arrange meet them face to face which after two weeks still hasn’t happened. Am I allowed to get him

 

[Upthecreek]

Have you given notice in writing as per the contract? If so you now need to contact them again and tell them the date you intend to collect the horse.

 

[ihatework]

Of course you can get him.
Provide them with written notice per your contract and tell them when you will be collecting.
Hopefully you have a welfare clause in there which enables you to just rock up and collect with no notice

 

[Parrotperson]

yep. write them a formal termination. say you're collection him as per agreement on the ...............

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

As you haven't been able to meet them f2f, you need to write to them, terminating the laon from x date as per your contract. I would tell them it is so that you can supervise his veterinary needs.

 

[Poppyalfiemoon26]

Thank you so much everyone. Very appreciated

 

[Goldenstar]

Just write and get it done , Good Luck .

 

[Tiddlypom]

If it's a welfare issue, don't faff about with giving them notice, just go and collect the horse.

If it isn't a welfare issue, then give them due notice and then go and collect the horse.

 

[Melody Grey]

Just picking up on ‘permanent loan’; with this terminology just wondering if the loanees assume they’ve been gifted the horse, hence you’ve had no updates? Perhaps you mean long-term loan?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I use the phrase 'permanent loan' for Max because I have no intention of ever asking him to come back. But the contract is still very clear that I can give notice and collect for any reason and can collect without notice on welfare grounds. And the loaner can also send back. She's not obliged to keep him if he outstays his welcome. 'Permanent ' is just a phrase signalling intent. It doesn't mean the loaner has additional rights.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I think given that they seem to be trying to avoid talking to you and have already moved the horse without letting you know, I would be inclined to just take a horsebox to where he is and collect him, I would be worried that if they are given notice they have the chance to just disappear with your horse.

 

[Poppyalfiemoon26]

I use the phrase 'permanent loan' for Max because I have no intention of ever asking him to come back. But the contract is still very clear that I can give notice and collect for any reason and can collect without notice on welfare grounds. And the loaner can also send back. She's not obliged to keep him if he outstays his welcome. 'Permanent ' is just a phrase signalling intent. It doesn't mean the loaner has additional rights.

Thank you, this permanent thing had me worried ?

 

[Poppyalfiemoon26]

Just picking up on ‘permanent loan’; with this terminology just wondering if the loanees assume they’ve been gifted the horse, hence you’ve had no updates? Perhaps you mean long-term loan?

They are aware as in the loan agreement it states this is not a contract for ownership

 

[Melody Grey]

They are aware as in the loan agreement it states this is not a contract for ownership

That’s good then. Sorry to cause concern, just was wondering if there was potential for confusion with ‘permanent’ in the title.

 

[Equi]

I too would be concerned about the moving without telling you thing and where they may possibly take the horse again. If you are worried about the welfare of the horse just go get it, im sure most contracts are null and void in cases of welfare and she had already broken the contract by the lack of communication to you re moving etc so you dont have to worry about that. Im not sure how legally standing the bhs contract is anyway, its really only saying "i didnt pay for this horse so dont legally own it"

 

[canteron]

I would be tempted to go and get the horse and deal with the consequences later!!
If they move the horse without telling you, they might just do it again to a ‘secret’ place!!’

 

[Meowy Catkin]

That’s good then. Sorry to cause concern, just was wondering if there was potential for confusion with ‘permanent’ in the title.

I've never been entirely comfortable with the term either, I much prefer 'full loan' which can of course be long term if that's what suits both parties.

Regardless of all that terminology, I hope you get your horse back with no issues OP.

 

[Winters100]

I would definitely just go and get the horse, today if possible.

If they feel that you have broken the contract they can take you to court and prove what damage has been caused to them. How much can this 'damage' possibly be? One months DIY livery cost because they did not get to give notice there? Use of a lame horse? Remember that 1) they will almost certainly not take you to court and 2) if they did they would likely lose as they moved the horse without your permission, which I would assume would be needed as per the contract.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[pixie]

If you do go and collect it, make sure that you have some ID to show the yard owner, which should have the same name as in the passport, which hopefully they will either have or have a photocopy of.

 

[scruffyponies]

I have always been of the view that 'permenant' loan means that you might have trouble giving dobbin back, as the owner is not expected to maintain facilities to keep him (emigrating, incapacitated etc). As the owner you are absolutely entitled to reclaim your horse.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I think given that they seem to be trying to avoid talking to you and have already moved the horse without letting you know, I would be inclined to just take a horsebox to where he is and collect him, I would be worried that if they are given notice they have the chance to just disappear with your horse.

^^^ This. Yes five years have elapsed, but they have already moved him without telling you and my suspicion would be that they think he is "theirs".

A loan agreement - unless witnessed, signed & dated by a legal person, is frankly not worth the paper it is written on. This is YOUR horse, end of, and no-one but no-one can stop you collecting your horse!!

I don't want to frighten you but would suggest you do not delay in this as otherwise he may be moved somewhere else where you don't know where he is.

If you have transport, do it ASAP, like tomorrow. If you don't have transport, arrange it ASAP or surely there is a friend who could oblige???

But just get him back, don't delay. Personally I would just rock-up and collect him. End of.

 

[PeterNatt]

I would also be concerned that they relied on the diagnosis of Laminitis from a Farrier rather than get a vet check him out and provide a course of treatment.

 

[Poppyalfiemoon26]

Thanks everyone. I am waiting for my friend to finish work as she has transportation. I also feel they in there heads feel the have owners rights. If my farrier told me he thought any of my horses had laminitis I’d ring my vet ASAP. Possibly X-ray ect.
I will let you all know how we get on ?

 

[Goldenstar]

Good Luck

 

[fredflop]

I would be very wary of the comments of just go and get him.

I certainly know my YO would not let a stranger on the yard saying I’ve come to pick trigger up. Which field is he in?

 

[Spirit2021]

I wouldn’t just go up a pick him up your asking for trouble and you need to look at your contract cancel everything and take a step back . It will only end in a disaster. Most of the time the person who has the horse had a mouth before you can collect it legally.

 

[Spirit2021]

Why didn’t you have a conversation with the person when you found out about these problems.

 

[TheresaW]

I am the loaner of Max, mentioned above. We had a lami scare with him a few weeks ago. It was a Friday evening, and spoke to vet and got him off the grass. Vet was happy for us to monitor him over weekend, and was booked for the Monday morning unless I felt they should come sooner. I held off contacting AE until vet had been, purely not to worry her for what could have been something or nothing. Once vet had seen him, I told her immediately. Had she decided then that she felt it necessary to come and collect him, I would have been devastated, but probably understood her decision. He also saw the Farrier on the weds to give him a once over.

She does probably get more updates than she needs, but as much as I love and treat him as my own, at the end of the day, he is her pony.

 

[brighteyes]

I am the loaner of Max, mentioned above. We had a lami scare with him a few weeks ago. It was a Friday evening, and spoke to vet and got him off the grass. Vet was happy for us to monitor him over weekend, and was booked for the Monday morning unless I felt they should come sooner. I held off contacting AE until vet had been, purely not to worry her for what could have been something or nothing. Once vet had seen him, I told her immediately. Had she decided then that she felt it necessary to come and collect him, I would have been devastated, but probably understood her decision. He also saw the Farrier on the weds to give him a once over.

She does probably get more updates than she needs, but as much as I love and treat him as my own, at the end of the day, he is her pony.

Now I'm confused! Is this Max the one belonging to the OP or to Amber's Echo? It's so tricky when the stories are one-sided or don't match. and when there's possibly a 'welfare' issue.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Now I'm confused! Is this Max the one belonging to the OP or to Amber's Echo? It's so tricky when the stories are one-sided or don't match. and when there's possibly a 'welfare' issue.

He's Amber's Echo's horse, not the one in the OP.