Testing bloods taken at a vetting

[Indefatigable]

If results are found to be positive for illegal substances e.g. anti-inflammatories, can you claim money back from a dealer to reflect the real value of the horse instead of sending it back for a full refund? Horse in question was £15k but if bloods come back positive, as we suspect they will, he will be worth considerably less. (We don't want to send him back even though he won't be able to do what he was bought for).

 

[Tiddlypom]

You'll need legal advice on this. Are you a BHS member?

 

[Parrotperson]

Yes legal advice. And quick smart. You’ll only get guesses on here.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Another saying get yourself legal advice, pdq.

 

[Polos Mum]

What they are legally obliged to do vs. what they are happy to do vs. what you might be able to negotiate with them to do are all likely to be quite different.

I would as above get professional advise as to your legal position and once you have the blood report then start with speaking to them calmly and rationally (which I'm sure is difficult in the circumstances).

The legal resort might not be the outcome you want so negotiation to start with might help.

 

[xDundryx]

Polo's mum has hit the nail on the head. It's worth remembering that bloods are only stored for 6 months as well. Good luck with the legal advice.

 

[Melody Grey]

Definitely one for legal advice. I’m not sure whether you can go half and half I.e retain the horse but have some kind of refund. I’ve heard of cases where it’s full refund and return of the horse or nothing, but just what I’ve heard.

 

[Indefatigable]

Thanks all. I spoke to a legal advisor this morning. It's a proper can of worms isn't it. What's clear is that there are no guarantees of financial compensation whatsoever. You can put yourself through the financial and emotional wringer and still end up without a resolution. Even if bloods show up illegal substance/s, that is still very much only step 1. I guess unscrupulous dealers rely on people not having the stamina for the whole horrible process. And so they carry on in business - because they know they can.

 

[Birker2020]

Thanks all. I spoke to a legal advisor this morning. It's a proper can of worms isn't it. What's clear is that there are no guarantees of financial compensation whatsoever. You can put yourself through the financial and emotional wringer and still end up without a resolution. Even if bloods show up illegal substance/s, that is still very much only step 1. I guess unscrupulous dealers rely on people not having the stamina for the whole horrible process. And so they carry on in business - because they know they can.

You stand more luck with a dealer than trying to get any joy from a private seller that's for sure. And you have 6 months now or so I was told, in order to start a case against someone.

 

[onemoretime]

If results are found to be positive for illegal substances e.g. anti-inflammatories, can you claim money back from a dealer to reflect the real value of the horse instead of sending it back for a full refund? Horse in question was £15k but if bloods come back positive, as we suspect they will, he will be worth considerably less. (We don't want to send him back even though he won't be able to do what he was bought for).

I was in this situation back in 2012. You will need to speak to a horse solicitor. Fortunately I am married to a Lawyer and he dealt with it all but it was quite a nasty business. Always remember its the horse who is the biggest victim in all this. Sadly I had to send the horse back only for it all to kick off again with the next poor unfortunate person to buy him who he seriously injured. If you need any help or just want to talk it through please contact me.

 

[Indefatigable]

Thanks onemoretime. This horse isn't going anywhere - he is a dear soul, very stoical and my responsibility now (even though he'll probably bankrupt me). I know exactly what happens when horses get sent back. It never ends well.

 

[onemoretime]

Thanks onemoretime. This horse isn't going anywhere - he is a dear soul, very stoical and my responsibility now (even though he'll probably bankrupt me). I know exactly what happens when horses get sent back. It never ends well.

So sorry you find yourself in this situation and good on you for keeping the horse I hope you are able to get some money out of the dealer. This is where I wish that dealers were licenced and any trouble like this once proved, they should have their licence revoked.

 

[Fire sign]

I was under the impression that the blood testing is quite a costly business?

How much has the vet quoted ?

Who has to pay for this if horse has been drugged ?

Am thinking that if you are keeping the horse and unlikely to recover the money it may not be worthwhile testing the blood

 

[Indefatigable]

I've been quoted £500. Right now, with the prospect of a lengthy and harrowing process, I think I'm going to give it a miss - just what dealers count on!

 

[Indefatigable]

(So 'Indefatigable' I am NOT!)

 

[Fire sign]

I can't say I blame you .... The last time I had a horse vetted I paid extra for bloods to be taken but had I known it was going to be so expensive to actually test the blood I don't know if I would have bothered ... I think perhaps one hopes blood taking acts more as a deterrent to a dodgy seller ....but not in your case unfortunately ... I hope it all works out well in the end for you

 

[onemoretime]

I've been quoted £500. Right now, with the prospect of a lengthy and harrowing process, I think I'm going to give it a miss - just what dealers count on!

We paid £264 back in 2012 but my husband took the dealer for just under 3k in costs as we had travelled up to Scotland from the South and incurred B&B expenses plus fuel and blood test and keeping the horse for 6 weeks. She picked on the wrong ones that time!

 

[Melody Grey]

With horse prices being so high nowadays, I’d assumed the cost you were proposing to claim back was significant. If £500 to run the bloods (if that’s what it is) outweighs the effort and looks big against what you were hoping to get back, I wouldn’t bother and chalk it up to experience I think.

 

[BronsonNutter]

I've been quoted £500. Right now, with the prospect of a lengthy and harrowing process, I think I'm going to give it a miss - just what dealers count on!

I think it is just over £300 according to here: https://media-client.vds-host.co.uk/resource/40F731D4-B389-4FBE-B4DA-CA332661E8A9

Important to remember that if the horse had a joint medicated outside of the testable time frame (same as with competing horses) then nothing will show, but it might have still been having an effect on the day of the vetting.

 

[Caol Ila]

When I had mine vetted, I was told that taking blood was SOP, as a deterrent. At which point it would be held for six months and could be tested.

Some friends were missold a horse — told it was a quiet mother/daughter share, suitable for novices, but it was mad as a box of frogs and had been sedated at the viewing. They started a case but backed out because winning in court would have sent the horse back to the dodgy dealer. They didn’t want to throw the poor horse back into the mill, so they ate the financial hit, loaned the horse out to someone who doesn’t mind the quirks, and then bought a more suitable one.

So there’s that.

 

[SO1]

This is exactly what these dealers rely on.

If you can afford a 15k horse then can you not spare the money to get the blood screening. What does your vet think? What is wrong with the horse?

If you don't send the horse back you might be able to get a partial refund from the dealer or be able to negotiate an out of court settlement in return for gagging clause so not identify the dealer.

If they are selling 15k horses that are doped that is not a sum that a lot of people can afford to lose and they will get caught out eventually if they sell to someone wealthy or someone who gets so angry they will out of principle go for them.

Have you spoken to the dealer and the vet who did about the problem with and told them you are considering testing the blood and if so what have they said?

There is of course the chance that the dealer is innocent or has managed a problem using nutriceuticals/herbal product.

If the horse was doped even if I planned to keep the horse I think as it might help from a vet perspective in terms of knowing how long the horse has had the condition. It maybe the dealer is innocent unfortunately horses can go from sound to unsound really quickly.

Thanks onemoretime. This horse isn't going anywhere - he is a dear soul, very stoical and my responsibility now (even though he'll probably bankrupt me). I know exactly what happens when horses get sent back. It never ends well.

 

[Birker2020]

I was under the impression that the blood testing is quite a costly business?

How much has the vet quoted ?

Who has to pay for this if horse has been drugged ?

Am thinking that if you are keeping the horse and unlikely to recover the money it may not be worthwhile testing the blood

I think the seller would have to pay if a Court of Law found them to be negligent but trying to recoup the money would be like getting blood out of a stone.

 

[Trouper]

I suppose to add him to the dodgy dealers list you would need to have the proof of a blood test. I guess it depends on how altruistic you are feeling to spend the testing fee to be able to publicise his malpractice and perhaps prevent more cases in the future?
But so well done you for keeping the boy and not letting him be passed around.

 

[Melody Grey]

I think the seller would have to pay if a Court of Law found them to be negligent but trying to recoup the money would be like getting blood out of a stone.

Agreed- presumably though the purchaser would need to pay in the first instance and reclaim it as part of their case.

 

[nagblagger]

Maybe i'm just confused but whats the point of paying a vet to take bloods during a vetting if you have no intention of processing them if things go wrong? It appears dealers are now not concerned, do not see it as a deterrent, about a vetting which includes blood test because people don't follow through.
Could you start the process, get the evidence, then discuss 'out of court' settlement where you keep the horse and some funds returned. The dealer may do this to protect their name (if they are an innocent party) or not to have to pay additional court costs, vets fees and lose their reputation, which may be incurred if they are found guilty.
I admit i am naive in the horse buying world, just living in my idealistic bubble!

 

[Equi]

A dealer who has potentially doped a horse isn’t going to give a partial refund out of the goodness of their heart. There is only two ways it goes and that is having to give the horse back or keep them. Many dealers bank on people being too attached to give it back, thus the circle of strife continues.

 

[Birker2020]

Maybe i'm just confused but whats the point of paying a vet to take bloods during a vetting if you have no intention of processing them if things go wrong? It appears dealers are now not concerned, do not see it as a deterrent, about a vetting which includes blood test because people don't follow through.
Could you start the process, get the evidence, then discuss 'out of court' settlement where you keep the horse and some funds returned. The dealer may do this to protect their name (if they are an innocent party) or not to have to pay additional court costs, vets fees and lose their reputation, which may be incurred if they are found guilty.
I admit i am naive in the horse buying world, just living in my idealistic bubble!

She doesn't want to blood test as she wants to keep the horse. If she was going to get any recompense out of the whole thing should she go to court, then the outcome would be that she would have to hand over the horse almost certainly.

I can understand 100%, this is why I've not tested my horses blood as well although I understand that I still have until end of April to do so. I would hate to hand him back, my options are that he a) comes good for me to ride b) comes good to sell c) retirement.

The initial taking of the blood is under £30 or at least it was when I had my horse vetted.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I would get the bloods done and approach the dealer. Some may with a blood test as proof back down. Some wont. If they don’t then just put them on the dodgy dealers pages with your proof. You can only try and some will fold if your only looking for market value for what you have. Unless you know they are dodgy and know they won’t discuss.

 

[Indefatigable]

Blood test just requested. I will let you all know the results.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

If results are found to be positive for illegal substances e.g. anti-inflammatories, can you claim money back from a dealer to reflect the real value of the horse instead of sending it back for a full refund? Horse in question was £15k but if bloods come back positive, as we suspect they will, he will be worth considerably less. (We don't want to send him back even though he won't be able to do what he was bought for).

No help but well done for having them checked, so many times I hear the bloods were taken on a vetting but only stored, for future issues.