That was fun

Caol Ila

Caol Ila

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Yesterday, I was happily hacking through the park, approaching a point where my trail confluenced with several other trails, one of which drops down a steep hill onto the main path. I saw a group of dogs off lead, running down the hill. "Oh, balls," I thought, committed, unfortunately, to being where I was. Most of the dogs hung back, to their credit, but one young German shepherd raced ahead, charged at me, and started barking. I find most dogs will get spooked if you turn the horse to face them, shout a bit and wave a dressage whip, and ride a few steps towards them. This one didn't. It tried to run around the back of the horse and nip at her back legs. Several times, I tried walking quietly away from it, but as soon as I did that, the dog ran behind us, snapping. I have no idea if it would have bitten her but didn't want to find out. And while I would not have objected to her kicking it, I didn't want the hassle of dealing with that. So I kept spinning the horse on her haunches, trying to keep it in front of me. This went on for a while, maybe ten minutes or more, putting on quite a show for the bystanders. Dog owner screaming dog's name fruitlessly, horse wheeling in circles, rider swearing a lot, dog barking its head off and trying to dart behind horse. A nice couple out for a romantic walk were trying to run interference and distract the dog. I was getting increasingly unamused, pretty much pinned in place. God knows why the dog owner stayed back about twenty meters rather than going to where I was and grabbing her damned dog, but I don't have a dog so what so I know. Eventually, the dog ran back to the owner, who tackled it. I thanked the couple and said, "I'm gonna beat a hasty retreat," pointed the horse down the trail, put on leg, and the horse fired off like a rocket.

A bit shaken, I stuck with the route I was planning and came out at a carpark, and there was the dog owner, who had just finished loading her dogs into a van. She profusely apologised to me and said, "I didn't know you were there. You just popped out behind a corner. I would have put her on a lead if I'd seen you."

"Yeah, lots of people ride in this park, and there are lots of corners," I said. "You should be careful."

"I know," she anwered. "She's only eight months old and she was doing really well with recall."

I acknowledged that it was a young dog and said, "It's lucky this is an old horse who's pretty levelheaded about these things. That could have gone quite badly with a young, inexperienced horse."

"I know," she again, mortified.

I went on my way. As I was riding along the road back to the yard, one of the bystanders passed me in his car, rolled down the window, and complimented me for how well my horse handled that circus. That was sweet.

Given the rest of that woman's pack was well-behaved, I reckoned it was one of those lapses in judgment -- thinking your young animal is better trained than it is. I think she was pretty embarassed, not least because there was a wee crowd of people watching. Still, a busy park with horses, kids, mountain bikes, etc. is probably not the best place to work out how reliable your dog's recall really is.
 
Thankfully it ended well, and at least dog owner admitted fault.

I had not dissimilar the other day. Encountered owner with a GSP the other day on a long straight bridleway - I came back to walk, they stepped to the side and held onto dog. Happy days. Pleasant exchange, we continued on our merry way and 30 secs later I had a GSP launching at my big fella, hanging on his tail. Not pleasant - it felt the sting of my schooling whip and ran off with a yelp!
 
More and more of this will keep happening, since these days, people don't want to walk their own dogs. Our area is saturated with dog walkers with packs of 6 or more, all off lead. Although this ended well, I would still report it to the BHS and dog warden, for stats purposes.
 
Glad it ended well, what a well behaved horse and its nice the lady was so apologetic.

Sometimes they do silly things when they’re pups, hopefully the owner will now train it out of them so it doesn't happen again, but mature badly behaved (0 recall!) dogs off lead make me mad with ignorant owners.

This reminds me of a incident I had years ago now. Riding on an open bit of common land that had permission for horses and walkers, lots of horses use it. I was walking around the edge on my way back home.

I then heard lots of barking and 2 lurches ran up behind us (while I was on my then 5yr old!) at full speed. To my amazement my horse was very calm. I stopped and faced them, they kept barking and one was going for his legs. I stood still for about 5 minutes looking around, no owners in sight, nothing. I started walking on again (as horse started to get frustrated) with these dogs running circles, one trying to snap at his tail and heard shouting the other side of the common.

The owner eventually (no rush at all) wondered over f***ing and blinding at me! I was polite, didn’t provoke the situation so was shocked at this sudden vile attitude. To my amazement, it was apparently my fault and had been looking for her dogs as they had ran 2 fields away to get to me apparently. She didn’t catch her dogs as didn’t think it was ‘her’ fault and just kept shouting at me.. oh the language, so the dogs are still circling my horse nipping at him. I’ll add my horse was being brilliantly well behaved, especially considering there is now a fruit loop stood a few foot away shouting at me and waving her hands around. I just said you shouldn’t have dogs off lead if they have no recall and started walking off, worried if I stayed by the fruit loop for to long my horse might get nervous.

The dogs followed, so I stopped within a few foot and politely asked (why I was polite I have no idea) for the owner to get their dogs. The owner grabbed her dogs, still having a absolute tantrum about the situation and threatening me, she even took photos of me! I just ignored it and rode off quietly, praising my horse. As I left, a dog walker came and told me how well behaved my horse was and that the dogs/owner are awful and regulars there.

I think back on it now and wish I had reported it to 101. I’ve moved away from that area now but never rode back again! I tried to think back on it as a good training situation for my youngster..
 
This is the Norm where I am. We figured it was dog walkers. They were walking 8 dogs at a time and in no control whatsoever. We contacted the council who were aware of the situation, the dog warden and the local trust for the area. Thankfully things have settled down. I have a head cam now just incase.
 
I didn't know you could report these incidents to the BHS or dog warden? Is it pretty straightforward on their website?

In my hometown of Boulder, CO, there are lots of open space trails, and they are all heavily mutli-use -- hikers, dogwalkers, horse riders, mountain bikers. Off-lead dogs hassling hikers not keen on dogs, other dogs, horses, and chasing mountain bikers was/is becoming a huge problem, so the county council introduced leash laws for open space areas. Dog owners went ballistic because they like having their dogs off-lead, and ones who have well-trained dogs didn't want to be punished for the sins of ones who's dogs aren't trained. The county responded by re-jigging the law to allow for dogs, in some areas, to be under voice and sight control. If your dog is off-lead and out of control, you can be fined. My parents, who hike on these trails, say it's got a lot better.
 
Quite unusual for a young gsd to be so aggressive to a much larger animal. I noticed with mine when young, who’s gsd/husky, any large animal she hadnt seen before, cow for instance....she ran towards it, barking, but staying 20feet back from it, it turned to her, walking forwards (brave cow!), she reversed while still barking. Im calling her, and due to her not knowing it, but knowing me, i was the safe bet and she returned to me.

When she saw horses for the first time, she was scared, and even now doesnt go close to their legs, all she wants to do is lick their noses!

That young gsd you encountered sounds like was in attack mode due to not knowing whether the horse was safe or not.
She shouldnt have had that dog off the lead! You dont test a dog in such a public place!

I wouldnt have mine off the lead in a public place even now at 9yrs old, as there’s a lot of stuff like bicycles she hasnt seen, so i can predict her running at things barking out of curiosity, she’d never hurt anyone. But she would fight only if another dog was aggressive towards me. That young gsd may have assumed the huge beasty horse heading to the pack was an unknown threat so had to keep it back by spinning around its legs. Its aggression based on high protection mentality of the pack, which my dog is like. Id never had such a dog off a lead no matter how well trained to be honest.

You and horse handled it so well! Id’ve got off horse and done some ad hoc training of the dog to show it its not a threat. If it didnt get it, id scare it off swishing my whip....altho my horse wouldve probably kicked the dog to kingdom come in an instant!
 
I wonder what the liability is, of an out-of-control dog vs horse. With a youngster, you would likely have had a loose horse and/or injured rider. I would have been less polite!
 
I used to help guide rides in a country park. The bridleway was clearly marked but also used by walkers and mountain bikers. Part of it ran parallel to a cafe.

We were on it once with about 4 riders and I was at the back. I was on a rock solid pony when an adult GSD followed us up the track with no owner in site. I wasn't bothered - pony was used to dogs - when suddenly I felt him twitch and his back go up. The dog was right behind him and was snapping at his back legs. Yelled over to Cafe to see if owner was there and no response. Dog kept snapping and my rock solid pony decided he'd had enough and lashed out. It was a warning shot but still caught the dog and gave everyone at the cafe a bit of a shock.

A random bloke came to try and grab the dog but got growled at so I suggested he leave it well alone. Every time we tried to ride off the dog would come back snapping. Took the owner 10 mins to turn up. She said she'd heard the commotion and was worried it was her dog because he wasn't good off the lead. I wasn't particularly polite at that point!

I used to ride on Cannock Chase and had many issues with out of control dogs there.

Glad you and your horse were OK. I'd be mortified if my horse badly injured a dog, but we are so reliant on owners to understand how to keep their dogs under control.
 
PurBee said:
Quite unusual for a young gsd to be so aggressive to a much larger animal. I noticed with mine when young, who’s gsd/husky, any large animal she hadnt seen before, cow for instance....she ran towards it, barking, but staying 20feet back from it, it turned to her, walking forwards (brave cow!), she reversed while still barking. Im calling her, and due to her not knowing it, but knowing me, i was the safe bet and she returned to me.

When she saw horses for the first time, she was scared, and even now doesnt go close to their legs, all she wants to do is lick their noses!

That young gsd you encountered sounds like was in attack mode due to not knowing whether the horse was safe or not.
She shouldnt have had that dog off the lead! You dont test a dog in such a public place!

I wouldnt have mine off the lead in a public place even now at 9yrs old, as there’s a lot of stuff like bicycles she hasnt seen, so i can predict her running at things barking out of curiosity, she’d never hurt anyone. But she would fight only if another dog was aggressive towards me. That young gsd may have assumed the huge beasty horse heading to the pack was an unknown threat so had to keep it back by spinning around its legs. Its aggression based on high protection mentality of the pack, which my dog is like. Id never had such a dog off a lead no matter how well trained to be honest.

You and horse handled it so well! Id’ve got off horse and done some ad hoc training of the dog to show it its not a threat. If it didnt get it, id scare it off swishing my whip....altho my horse wouldve probably kicked the dog to kingdom come in an instant!
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You couldn't have paid me to get off the horse. I'm not a great fan of barking dogs running at me (I hate those Great Pyrenees that guard sheep in the Alps), but a doggy person would probably have a better idea of what to do.

I only encountered well-mannered dogs today. It was a much nicer ride.
 
As a GSD owner of 3 decades I can sympathise with both of you. GSDs are herding dogs so, like Collies, their instinct is to chase although not all of them nip. However much you train them -and believe me I have!- there is little you can do when the "red mist" comes down over their eyes. If you want them to have some running exercise then it is wise to muzzle them if you think you are going to meet other animals so at least no biting damage can be done. The worst thing the owner did was to start screaming and shouting - to dogs that is just "joining in" language. Usually GSDs will respond best if everyone just stays still and quiet. I can understand your wish not to dismount but I think it might be the best thing to do in these situations as the worst scenario would be for the horse and rider to take off and the dog follows on still chasing.
For GSD owners we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. You want your dog to interact happily with other dogs and people and show respect to other animals but if this is done on a lead it does lead to quite defensive behaviour by the dog who feels trapped by the restraint. I don't have the answer - and neither did my experienced Police dog handler who took our training courses and admitted that police dogs can behave just as badly off the lead if the chase is on!!
I think sometimes eyes in the back of my head on walks would be a distinct advantage. I am glad you came home safe.
 
Surely if you are somewhat dog-phobic but in control of your horse, dismounting is the worst idea. On the horse, I'm far less freaked out by aggressive dogs than I am off her. In my experience, dogs like this react badly to people who are scared of them.

I did try standing still so we seemed boring, but the dog would run around to snap at the horse's hindlegs, forcing me to spin her around. The owner was still shouting, though.
 
I understand caol! If youre not a doggy person its best to stay mounted....at least you knew your mount was sound and unfazed. Idve got off from my horse knowing he’d get wound up by that dog and i could well end up on the ground anyway due to that!
Im not fond of barking dogs running at me either, but the one test i always do is say in a friendly voice ignoring the aggression “hiya, are you a good girl/boy?” If they are all bark and no bite, they will lower their haunches and start wagging their tail like the friendly dog they really are. My big gsd is just like this - she’s got a mean approach to everyone, wolflike heckles raised and bouncing towards her prey barking ferociously, but if they say ‘hiya, good girl’ she’s a softy and licking them! If theres no tail wagging in response to kind voice of ‘good doggy’ its a sign theyre not friendly to strangers and id be swooshing my whip, growling and generally being as mean as possible to get the dog running away from me.
I dont use whips on horses but have them for potential menaces encountered - the swooshing sound freaks out most animals.

Glad todays ride was far more pleasant. At least its great training and de-sensitisation for your horse to become truly bombproof when things do go awry!
Ive never experienced a horse i could say is fearless and flinchless at absolutely anything, id love to though.
My horses take my cue and cower behind me when they freak, but they still freak. Its odd though, a waft of wind can set them off, while flapping plastic, our animals running around them, a 12tonne digger passing them, theyll be calmly observing.
“Whaaaaaaats thaaaaaaaat?!?!” Is there expression amidst the jiggles and spins when they do react and i rarely do know what triggered it. They can see for miles around here and often its a gunmen in the far off distance, or a hare shooting through the forest....something i cant see but they tell me, there is something, way out over there. They seem to have a guard-dog mentality :confused:
 
Yeah, I suppose not reacting to them and chatting calmly does help. Easier said than done if you don't like big, aggressive dogs. In the Alps a couple years ago, we were on a trail traversing the side of a hill, trying to skirt round the sheep, which were at the bottom of the hill, maybe 50m below us, but we clearly hadn't skirted far enough, as the guard dogs bounded straight at us, barking. Me and my friend panicked and attempted to scramble in a collected, calm manner straight up the hill, but the dogs knew fine well we were neither collected nor calm and chased us. My OH, on the other hand, likes dogs and he was genuinely unfazed, saying, "Hi, doggy," and continuing along the trail. They didn't bother with him.
 
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Argh I feel your pain! Where I hack my share horse it’s riddled with dog walkers, about 50% of which are utter morons! I think you handled the situation really well, wish I could say I have in the past! I am so lucky that she is completely bombproof around dogs as she has hunted so much in the past. But I’m not proud to say that the last time a dog was leaping up and snapping at her neck I had more than a few choice words for the owner and seen as they were incapable of catching and stopping the thing I leapt off and tackled it. Hindsight probably not the wisest move but nothing gets me more angry then people who have a complete disregard for the danger they put other members of the public in.

I wasn’t aware that you could report it so thanks for that guys will definitely be doing that in the future!
 
Caol Ila said:
Yeah, I suppose not reacting to them and chatting calmly does help. Easier said than done if you don't like big, aggressive dogs. In the Alps a couple years ago, we were on a trail traversing the side of a hill, trying to skirt round the sheep, which were at the bottom of the hill, maybe 50m below us, but we clearly hadn't skirted far enough, as the guard dogs bounded straight at us, barking. Me and my friend panicked and attempted to scramble in a collected, calm manner straight up the hill, but the dogs knew fine well we were neither collected nor calm and chased us. My OH, on the other hand, likes dogs and he was genuinely unfazed, saying, "Hi, doggy," and continuing along the trail. They didn't bother with him.
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Gotta be fearless. If you act like prey and run away that’ll really get their predator chase instincts going!
Pretend theyre all weeny cute puppies, your demeanour will shift to calm from fear.

I had a friend with a full male dog...like a tall staffy. Mean looking thing. Used to male owner and male friends. Rarely any female company experienced. I was nice to it on introduction but sensed its weirdness. It eyeballed me for an hour while sitting in the living room chatting with friends. I stared back eventually realising it was still staring, then i averted my gaze as i felt uneasy about its lock-on stare, in that instant it pounced towards me mouth wide open, i yelled at friend as i got up and turned my back to it and it ripped off my back pocket of my jeans. It happened in a nano-second.
Now, i never avert my gaze, i stare them down. It was that one moment of me ‘backing down’ feeling uneasy the dog sensed me as prey. Just a nano-second of fear induced its predator mind. That was so educational.

That dog was under-exercised, left alone a lot and never socialised with other dogs or many people. Poor thing.
 
When I was at school I used to cycle through the local social club grounds as a short cut to school. Always used to pray the two resident corgis weren't loose as they would ruhs out and try and grab my ankles. One day I tried a new tactic. I stopped and started sweet talking them, telling them what dear little doggies they were. They got most embarassed and eventually turned and slunk off. It was very funny.
 
Pur Bee I have to say that you talk an absolute load of rubbish! What are you doing letting your husky/GSD run at horses and cows to see if she wants to lick them or nip them or just bark at them? Staring at a dog is very threatening to them and asking for trouble. If you are to advise on a public forum go do some reading up on dog behaviour.
And Trouper - muzzled or not a dog can still cause an accident. A GSD is only a dog , and actually a very trainable breed, and if you cnanot stop recall failures you need to hire an encl;;osed field.

OP, I would have been livid by what happened and hopefully the owner learned from it.
 
It's
Fransurrey said:
More and more of this will keep happening, since these days, people don't want to walk their own dogs. Our area is saturated with dog walkers with packs of 6 or more, all off lead. Although this ended well, I would still report it to the BHS and dog warden, for stats purposes.
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It's illegal for one person to walk six or more dogs alone, please report this
 
Dogs can be a problem, as indeed can loose horses when they decant their riders, ridden horses doing droppings on urban roads etc etc. The owner apologised several times and will I am sure be more careful in the future. Can we not all be a little more tolerant of each other? We all have our moments of causing danger/distress to others by being somewhat inattentive.
 
It does seem like the owner was genuinely mortified and we all make the wrong decisions sometimes.

I've never welcomed an unknown dog approaching at speed with 'good doggy' a bellowed 'quiet' has sometimes yielded results as has riding towards them, I do try to ensure that they don't get behind as F has kicked once.
We share our only off road riding with a lot of dog walkers with sometimes questionable control, because it is a secure fenced, area. We try to pre-empt issues by offering to assist with any pup training as neither will react in the right set up and you get used to judging who knows what they are doing and who doesn't.

The weirdest incident was on the beach with a staffy hanging off tails, turned out it's owner was 'hiding' in the dunes and the minute he called it it went to him anyway so wasn't sure why he hadn't done that 10 minutes earlier.
 
PurBee said:
Gotta be fearless. If you act like prey and run away that’ll really get their predator chase instincts going!
Pretend theyre all weeny cute puppies, your demeanour will shift to calm from fear.

I had a friend with a full male dog...like a tall staffy. Mean looking thing. Used to male owner and male friends. Rarely any female company experienced. I was nice to it on introduction but sensed its weirdness. It eyeballed me for an hour while sitting in the living room chatting with friends. I stared back eventually realising it was still staring, then i averted my gaze as i felt uneasy about its lock-on stare, in that instant it pounced towards me mouth wide open, i yelled at friend as i got up and turned my back to it and it ripped off my back pocket of my jeans. It happened in a nano-second.
Now, i never avert my gaze, i stare them down. It was that one moment of me ‘backing down’ feeling uneasy the dog sensed me as prey. Just a nano-second of fear induced its predator mind. That was so educational.

That dog was under-exercised, left alone a lot and never socialised with other dogs or many people. Poor thing.
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No wonder if tried to bite you if you were staring it out. Not a very bright idea.
 
We are having problems in the New Forest now with cattle attacking dog walkers and their dogs. I have lived here over thirty years and this has only happened in the last few years. And all because some dog walkers let their dogs bother the animals. Even when no obvious damage is done, a cow who has been barked at threateningly by a dog will see all dogs as a threat and cattle are not scared of dogs, they just try and flatten them if they start disliking them. We now have new posters all over the Forest trying to warn people of the likely consequences of their dogs' behaviour. I feel it is only a matter of time before all dogs will have to be kept on lead in the Forest as the situation is becoming too dangerous. Dogs have now been killed and several people severely injured by cattle who would normally have minded their own business. A muzzle would not make the harassment more acceptable to a cow and it will not make allowances for a 'young dog in training'. I am sorry for the commoners whose cattle are becoming dangerous to be honest, they then have to take the cattle off the Forest and even have them slaughtered in some cases.
 
Sandstone1 said:
No wonder if tried to bite you if you were staring it out. Not a very bright idea.
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Evidently to dispel your assumptions you need more information on the episode.

I wasn’t ‘staring it out’ - he was doing that continuously with me, i noticed this by glancing at him several times that he was continuously staring and hadnt moved from that position. Before he attacked me i stared back for 5 seconds to gauge better his stare, as it was a dimly lit room - that was when i realised it wasnt a ‘curious’ stare, it was the ‘hard/cold eye stare’, of dominance, and by averting my gaze signalled submission in him, giving him the cue he needed to assert his dominance.

This was all after having met the dog in a friendly manner and getting on with conversing with friends. I paid no attention to the dog, except to glance at it occasionally. Upon meeting the dog, his owner had to pull him down from jumping at us, grab his collar pull him from us, yell at the dog, and eventually ordered the dog to sit at the end of the room.
I had no ill feelings toward the dog, thought him to be overly behavioural due to having not met us before. So the dog received no fear vibes, or dominance vibes from me, or any attention from me while i was there, until the attack occurred.

In that situation with a dog giving that dominant hard stare a person is damned if they do, damned if they dont. It depends on the situation. If you dont stare them down and avert your stare, an attack can ensure, in the case of the experience i had. Or if you stare back with dominance, they might escalate to attack or avert their gaze, that scenario is a 50/50. I’ve done this with other dogs and they all avert their gaze after 10 seconds, yet an extremely ill-trained unsocialised dog is unpredictable with its behaviour. There’s no knowing, and no set rules. Yet acting submissive/prey behaviour in the eyes of an overtly dominant dog will give it the signal to become predatory.

I only found out about the dogs problems/environmental lack of exposure to anything after the incident. He would also randomly attack his owners regular friends visiting. The one man he didnt attack was a guy who was dominant with him from the start, he locked eye stared him, and gave the dog firm instructions.

Having rescued and handled many canines of various backgrounds, from street mongrels to ex police dogs, this dog, without exposure to anything in the real world with very minimal socialisation of many humans and no other animals, was the most dangerous in unpredictable behaviour due to this.
 
PurBee said:
Evidently to dispel your assumptions you need more information on the episode.

I wasn’t ‘staring it out’ - he was doing that continuously with me, i noticed this by glancing at him several times that he was continuously staring and hadnt moved from that position. Before he attacked me i stared back for 5 seconds to gauge better his stare, as it was a dimly lit room - that was when i realised it wasnt a ‘curious’ stare, it was the ‘hard/cold eye stare’, of dominance, and by averting my gaze signalled submission in him, giving him the cue he needed to assert his dominance.

This was all after having met the dog in a friendly manner and getting on with conversing with friends. I paid no attention to the dog, except to glance at it occasionally. Upon meeting the dog, his owner had to pull him down from jumping at us, grab his collar pull him from us, yell at the dog, and eventually ordered the dog to sit at the end of the room.
I had no ill feelings toward the dog, thought him to be overly behavioural due to having not met us before. So the dog received no fear vibes, or dominance vibes from me, or any attention from me while i was there, until the attack occurred.

In that situation with a dog giving that dominant hard stare a person is damned if they do, damned if they dont. It depends on the situation. If you dont stare them down and avert your stare, an attack can ensure, in the case of the experience i had. Or if you stare back with dominance, they might escalate to attack or avert their gaze, that scenario is a 50/50. I’ve done this with other dogs and they all avert their gaze after 10 seconds, yet an extremely ill-trained unsocialised dog is unpredictable with its behaviour. There’s no knowing, and no set rules. Yet acting submissive/prey behaviour in the eyes of an overtly dominant dog will give it the signal to become predatory.

I only found out about the dogs problems/environmental lack of exposure to anything after the incident. He would also randomly attack his owners regular friends visiting. The one man he didnt attack was a guy who was dominant with him from the start, he locked eye stared him, and gave the dog firm instructions.

Having rescued and handled many canines of various backgrounds, from street mongrels to ex police dogs, this dog, without exposure to anything in the real world with very minimal socialisation of many humans and no other animals, was the most dangerous in unpredictable behaviour due to this.
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Really.
 
Sorry, I should have quoted the post but this is in reply to Purbee.

Firstly, the owner of the dog is obviously a complete idiot. The dog should not have been subject to the stress and if you felt the dog was making you feel uncomfortable you should have spoken to the owner and pointed this out.

I find it strange that the dog singled you out given that you are an expert in dog behaviour and should know how to act appropriately. I wonder what signals you were giving the dog that made him uneasy.

I find your understanding and interpretation of dog behaviour extremely poor to say the least.

To stare at a dog, any dog, is at the least very rude and at worst a challenge. From your posts it seems you make a practice of it.

If you are in the unfortunate position of having a dog stare at you again I would suggest that you turn sideways to it and ignore it.

I am not a huge fan of "dominance". It is totally unnecessary to dominate a dog.

Frankly I find your posts on this thread quite bizarre. I won't dissect them word by word but this disturbed me " My big gsd is just like this - she’s got a mean approach to everyone, wolflike heckles raised and bouncing towards her prey barking ferociously, but if they say ‘hiya, good girl’ she’s a softy and licking them!"

With your wealth of experience I am surprised you were unable to advise your brother and prevent him from returning 2, or was it 3 rescue dogs?

ETA. I believe you mean hackles.
 
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