That was fun

[PurBee]

There’s plenty more room on the bandwagon!

I dont agree twiggy, not all nervous, aggressive and uncomfortable dogs ALL wag their tails. Only some. Many tuck their tails, others hold a stiff tail. There’s never one rule of X behaviour = X meaning. We can make generalisations, knowing there are always exceptions to every rule.

Opinions are just opinions. When we tell our experiences on this board we are not giving every little detail that gives the full picture. Thats worth remembering before judging a person.

You can pick apart posts looking for faults all day long skinnydipper, if that’s the way you like to roll and treat people.

My brother? What a memory you have for what you have ‘decided’ are faults about complete strangers.

For your information, as you clearly need to know more to refine that judgement youve made about me and my relatives: He was never home with the dogs. Weekend time was full. He had no time to help troubled dogs. Id advise anyone without free time to train and be with an animal, to return the dog to the rescue centre.

 

[skinnydipper]

There’s plenty more room on the bandwagon!

I dont agree twiggy, not all nervous, aggressive and uncomfortable dogs ALL wag their tails. Only some. Many tuck their tails, others hold a stiff tail. There’s never one rule of X behaviour = X meaning. We can make generalisations, knowing there are always exceptions to every rule.

Opinions are just opinions. When we tell our experiences on this board we are not giving every little detail that gives the full picture. Thats worth remembering before judging a person.

You can pick apart posts looking for faults all day long skinnydipper, if that’s the way you like to roll and treat people.

My brother? What a memory you have for what you have ‘decided’ are faults about complete strangers.

For your information, as you clearly need to know more to refine that judgement youve made about me and my relatives: He was never home with the dogs. Weekend time was full. He had no time to help troubled dogs. Id advise anyone without free time to train and be with an animal, to return the dog to the rescue centre.

To be honest I struggled with your posts on this thread and had to read them more than once.

I didn't need a good memory, you posted about the returned rescue dogs in late December 2019 on a thread in which you were giving lengthy advice for some one with a "weeing dog" problem.

You said:

"My brother had a rescue that would hold it all day despite walks on lead, and then at night relieved herself on the kitchen tiles, 2-3 pools, it was everywhere. She went back to the centre. He had 2 rescues, that became too much for him. Another dominant dog was in the household, adding to her anxiety. Very timid dog."

In the light of that information I thought it odd that you were giving detailed advice to the OP on the thread when you had been unable to help your brother.

I have a special interest in rescue dogs and was disappointed that it was necessary to return them.

 

[PurBee]

SD - youre making far too many assumptions. A - that i know every animal detail of my brothers life, B- i see him regularly, C - he lives close by, D - i knew of his animal situation, which included far more than dogs BTW.
.. hence i wasnt able to give him advice, as i didnt know the ‘full picture’.

Only when i visited and stayed over-night could i gauge better the dynamics of the animals, and what options my brother had to help them considering his lifestyle. There were 2 dogs, one extremely timid young female collie, the other a large black male gsd very dominant, who had never met each other before. Integrating the 2 dogs was done suddenly. I didnt do these actions, my brother did, i didnt even know this had happened, as i didnt know he had rescue dogs until i visited him.

Of course there’s endless advice to give in this situation if the whole situation is known.
I gave advice and suggestions to my brother, once i knew the dynamics, but he wasnt willing to implement them, which resulted in worsening behaviour and him returning them.

For the dogs sake they are better off being rehomed to an owner with adequate time, experience and facilities, especially dogs with problems.
I agree with you, its a dire situation if a rescue animal ends up in an unsuitable home, ultimately though its better off returned and a suitable home found for its own sake.

Like with the poster in the weeing thread. I was trying to gauge the dogs behaviour through asking questions. Only when it was revealed it had been a kennel dog of many years did its ‘weeing where it slept’ behaviour problem become apparent.

Advice and suggestions can only be given based on what is known, by asking questions, not making assumptions.

 

[skinnydipper]

SD - youre making far too many assumptions. A - that i know every animal detail of my brothers life, B- i see him regularly, C - he lives close by, D - i knew of his animal situation, which included far more than dogs BTW.
.. hence i wasnt able to give him advice, as i didnt know the ‘full picture’.

Only when i visited and stayed over-night could i gauge better the dynamics of the animals, and what options my brother had to help them considering his lifestyle. There were 2 dogs, one extremely timid young female collie, the other a large black male gsd very dominant, who had never met each other before. Integrating the 2 dogs was done suddenly. I didnt do these actions, my brother did, i didnt even know this had happened, as i didnt know he had rescue dogs until i visited him.

Of course there’s endless advice to give in this situation if the whole situation is known.
I gave advice and suggestions to my brother, once i knew the dynamics, but he wasnt willing to implement them, which resulted in worsening behaviour and him returning them.

For the dogs sake they are better off being rehomed to an owner with adequate time, experience and facilities, especially dogs with problems.
I agree with you, its a dire situation if a rescue animal ends up in an unsuitable home, ultimately though its better off returned and a suitable home found for its own sake.

Like with the poster in the weeing thread. I was trying to gauge the dogs behaviour through asking questions. Only when it was revealed it had been a kennel dog of many years did its ‘weeing where it slept’ behaviour problem become apparent.

Advice and suggestions can only be given based on what is known, by asking questions, not making assumptions.

I think urinating dogs have become a distraction from the original issue of staring at dogs, which you have clearly stated you do

"Now, i never avert my gaze, i stare them down"

and apparently allowing your GSD to run up to people barking and with raised "heckles".

" My big gsd is just like this - she’s got a mean approach to everyone, wolflike heckles raised and bouncing towards her prey barking ferociously, but if they say ‘hiya, good girl’ she’s a softy and licking them!"

These are not assumptions.

 

[twiggy2]

There’s plenty more room on the bandwagon!

I dont agree twiggy, not all nervous, aggressive and uncomfortable dogs ALL wag their tails. Only some. Many tuck their tails, others hold a stiff tail. There’s never one rule of X behaviour = X meaning. We can make generalisations, knowing there are always exceptions to every rule.

Opinions are just opinions. When we tell our experiences on this board we are not giving every little detail that gives the full picture. Thats worth remembering before judging a person.

You can pick apart posts looking for faults all day long skinnydipper, if that’s the way you like to roll and treat people.

My brother? What a memory you have for what you have ‘decided’ are faults about complete strangers.

For your information, as you clearly need to know more to refine that judgement youve made about me and my relatives: He was never home with the dogs. Weekend time was full. He had no time to help troubled dogs. Id advise anyone without free time to train and be with an animal, to return the dog to the rescue centre.

Maybe I could have written it more clearly, I was not meaning every single nervous,, aggressive or uncomfortable dog wags it's tail but that dogs feeling these emotions can wag their tails

 

[PurBee]

I think urinating dogs have become a distraction from the original issue of staring at dogs (which you have clearly stated you do) and apparently allowing your GSD to run up to people barking and with raised "heckles".

" My big gsd is just like this - she’s got a mean approach to everyone, wolflike heckles raised and bouncing towards her prey barking ferociously, but if they say ‘hiya, good girl’ she’s a softy and licking them!"

These are not assumptions.

Well lets continue picking shall we sd?

I do not exhibit prey behaviour to a dog that is being aggressive. I dont stare down every dog i meet! Quote me where i say i stare down all dogs i meet.
It depends on the behaviour of the dog, and its a rare occurance a stare down is needed.

My gsd, behaves as quoted, AT HOME. She is a guard dog and so anyone unknown who enters the driveway will meet her, as described above. If they are not scared of dogs and say ‘hiya’ she goes close to them to lick and sniff them. For those scared of dogs, she stays 5 feet back from them barking to me that ‘someone is here’.
With other dogs passing by she ambles up to them to sniff and play.

In public with many people and animals about, its not her ‘territory’ and her behaviour is completely different. She’s always friendly, with people and animals, never nipped at anyone, ever. Because of her size and her propensity to guard me i wouldnt let her off the leash while out in public, but that is more due to my fear of ‘what if...’ than any behaviour warnings she’s ever given me.

 

[skinnydipper]

I had been content just to ‘like’ Clodagh’s post until you continued to spout garbage.

Whatever.

I’m off to bed

 

[PurBee]

Maybe I could have written it more clearly, I was not meaning every single nervous,, aggressive or uncomfortable dog wags it's tail but that dogs feeling these emotions can wag their tails

You said “but PurBee you do know that aggressive, nervous and uncomfortable dogs all wag their tails too don't you???”

I can only go by what you actually say. And respond to that statement you make. I didnt know you really meant not all but some dogs, because you stated all dogs wag their tails when feeling uncomfortable etc.

SD is taking my statements, twisting them and filling in the blanks with assumptions.

My statements are closed on this matter now, as this biased ‘nitpicking’ bandwagon is not helpful to anyone.

 

[twiggy2]

You said “but PurBee you do know that aggressive, nervous and uncomfortable dogs all wag their tails too don't you???”

I can only go by what you actually say.
QUOTE]

Yep, that's why I made it clearer.
I did not say all aggressive, nervous and uncomfortable dogs all wag their tails, I said... Aggressive, nervous and uncomfortable dogs all wag their tails too.

 

[Five&Two]

Of course it’s not illegal ! There are rules for licensing dog walkers though

It is illegal, check your facts! My aunt is a pro dog walker and I help her out when needed

 

[bonny]

It is illegal, check your facts! My aunt is a pro dog walker and I help her out when needed

There are rules for professional dog walkers but not for joe bloggs !

 

[GSD Woman]

To get back to the OP, could you carry a hunting whip and crack it at loose dogs? I have 2 dogs that are good off lead and one who isn't. Guess who doesn't get to run loose anywhere it isn't safely enclosed?
Also, I wouldn't trust a dog walker to walk my dogs off lead. I would be furious if I found out that they had.

 

[skinnydipper]

I confess I've stopped trying to make sense of Purbee's posts (I was accused of making assumptions when in fact I was quoting her)

but I liked this

I have 2 dogs that are good off lead and one who isn't. Guess who doesn't get to run loose anywhere it isn't safely enclosed?

 

[twiggy2]

You said “but PurBee you do know that aggressive, nervous and uncomfortable dogs all wag their tails too don't you???”

I can only go by what you actually say. And respond to that statement you make. I didnt know you really meant not all but some dogs, because you stated all dogs wag their tails when feeling uncomfortable etc.

SD is taking my statements, twisting them and filling in the blanks with assumptions.

My statements are closed on this matter now, as this biased ‘nitpicking’ bandwagon is not helpful to anyone.

That's a miss quote I did not state 'all dogs wag their tails when feeling uncomfortable etc' I stated as above '...you do know that aggressive, nervous and uncomfortable dogs all wag their tails too don't you ' very different meaning.
I did not say every single one but yes it could have been worded better.

 

[twiggy2]

And yes back on track, OP I got to the point I carried a parrelli type stick and dogs harassing horses got hit, once and hard when and where possible, I only had to use it twice but would often ride around a common near the yard so I carried it, it also is more visible to cars on the road and could be used to gain a little more Road space.

 

[Caol Ila]

I carry a dressage whip but it's only good for waving around. I'd have to hang off the side of the horse to reach anything at dog level, which is probably not a good idea under the circumstances in which you might want to use it. I clearly need a longer whip.

 

[Five&Two]

There are rules for professional dog walkers but not for joe bloggs !

Yes there are, no one is allowed to walk more than 6 dogs alone, some places even have rules in place for less than 6. Any council official will tell you this and park rangers, land managers etc will hand out bans and fines.

 

[bonny]

Yes there are, no one is allowed to walk more than 6 dogs alone, some places even have rules in place for less than 6. Any council official will tell you this and park rangers, land managers etc will hand out bans and fines.

You have the law and council restrictions on licensed dog walkers muddled up, also what is a land manager ?

 

[ApolloStorm]

Gotta be fearless. If you act like prey and run away that’ll really get their predator chase instincts going!
Pretend theyre all weeny cute puppies, your demeanour will shift to calm from fear.

I had a friend with a full male dog...like a tall staffy. Mean looking thing. Used to male owner and male friends. Rarely any female company experienced. I was nice to it on introduction but sensed its weirdness. It eyeballed me for an hour while sitting in the living room chatting with friends. I stared back eventually realising it was still staring, then i averted my gaze as i felt uneasy about its lock-on stare, in that instant it pounced towards me mouth wide open, i yelled at friend as i got up and turned my back to it and it ripped off my back pocket of my jeans. It happened in a nano-second.
Now, i never avert my gaze, i stare them down. It was that one moment of me ‘backing down’ feeling uneasy the dog sensed me as prey. Just a nano-second of fear induced its predator mind. That was so educational.

That dog was under-exercised, left alone a lot and never socialised with other dogs or many people. Poor thing.

I would agree with you on this. Dog sense fear, I helped someone with a working line GSD once who had had no socialisation, who had been assessed as “fear aggressive” as someone who’s used to big dogs and being barked at, this dog was absolutely next level, it sat for 20 mins straight while I ignored it and barked at me, getting closer and closer, then finally it relented the owner could do some basic OB, we all relaxed, I continued to ignore the dog who could have quite easily moved away since it was loose and the back door was open and I was sat farthest from the door. Then suddenly it decided it didn’t like me again, barking restarted and it ended up nose punching me multiple times til it caught me with it’s tooth and I said that was enough and if we continued I’d be bitten. I was Following the behaviourists instructions but I firmly believe if I’d stood up and raised my voice telling it enough the dog would have been fine, this dog wasn’t scared of me, not one bit! I have had encounters with dogs on horseback and as a confident dog person myself I have to hesitation in telling owners exactly what I think and if I needed to I’d be getting off and giving the dogs a swift kick or if I had a long whip a smack!

 

[Leo Walker]

Yes there are, no one is allowed to walk more than 6 dogs alone, some places even have rules in place for less than 6. Any council official will tell you this and park rangers, land managers etc will hand out bans and fines.

You're wrong. There are no laws regarding the number of dogs you can walk.

 

[skinnydipper]

I would agree with you on this. Dog sense fear, I helped someone with a working line GSD once who had had no socialisation, who had been assessed as “fear aggressive” as someone who’s used to big dogs and being barked at, this dog was absolutely next level, it sat for 20 mins straight while I ignored it and barked at me, getting closer and closer, then finally it relented the owner could do some basic OB, we all relaxed, I continued to ignore the dog who could have quite easily moved away since it was loose and the back door was open and I was sat farthest from the door. Then suddenly it decided it didn’t like me again, barking restarted and it ended up nose punching me multiple times til it caught me with it’s tooth and I said that was enough and if we continued I’d be bitten. I was Following the behaviourists instructions but I firmly believe if I’d stood up and raised my voice telling it enough the dog would have been fine, this dog wasn’t scared of me, not one bit! I have had encounters with dogs on horseback and as a confident dog person myself I have to hesitation in telling owners exactly what I think and if I needed to I’d be getting off and giving the dogs a swift kick or if I had a long whip a smack!

An aggressive muzzle punch (rather than a playful muzzle punch) is often a precursor to a bite and a sign this dog was pushed dangerously over threshold.

I am surprised that he/she needed to repeat the behaviour multiple times before you got the message.

 

[RHM]

Yes there are, no one is allowed to walk more than 6 dogs alone, some places even have rules in place for less than 6. Any council official will tell you this and park rangers, land managers etc will hand out bans and fines.

It’s not the law it’s at council discretion (only on their land of course). My local council has a 6 dog limit per person in all the local parks and they have been known to fine errant dog walkers.

 

[Five&Two]

You're wrong. There are no laws regarding the number of dogs you can walk.

Yes there are.l! So many of you are clueless it's worrying

 

[bonny]

Yes there are.l! So many of you are clueless it's worrying

As you are so sure maybe you could provide us with a link of the law restricting numbers of dogs ?

 

[SpottyMare]

There is a law (control of dogs act 2010) that allows local authorities to set limits on how many dogs can be walked by one person, and the associated punishment should this not be adhered to.

It's a bit of a grey area though...

 

[bonny]

Have seen no evidence of any such law ?

 

[Bob notacob]

My old TB had dogs sorted . If one ran at him he would turn to face it He loved hounds ,he tolerated dogs. I would neck rein and keep us facing it . If it ,as almost always did , back off ,no further action required .If ,rarely , it continued , i would turn the other way and say "he,s yours" Bang , both hooves from the fastest hooves in the west . No repeat offenders .

 

[bonny]

My old TB had dogs sorted . If one ran at him he would turn to face it He loved hounds ,he tolerated dogs. I would neck rein and keep us facing it . If it ,as almost always did , back off ,no further action required .If ,rarely , it continued , i would turn the other way and say "he,s yours" Bang , both hooves from the fastest hooves in the west . No repeat offenders .

Did you dream this ?

 

[Bob notacob]

Did you dream this ?

Sorry but I dont quite understand your comment .

 

[ApolloStorm]

An aggressive muzzle punch (rather than a playful muzzle punch) is often a precursor to a bite and a sign this dog was pushed dangerously over threshold.

I am surprised that he/she needed to repeat the behaviour multiple times before you got the message.

I was under the supervision of a behaviourist at the time as a ‘stranger’ to test the practise they’d been doing at home! I am in no way an expert on dog behaviour, but I knew I didn’t want bitten! Short of leaving the room there was nothing I could have done differently, I wasn’t engaging the dog, not even looking at it, was relaxed for the most part until the end and the dog had an escape out the back door into the garden which the dog knew about.
I’m not really sure what your point is? Mine was that some dogs can and will pick fights they know they’ll win ( ie a scared or “easy” target) that people who are scared of dogs should probably stay aboard their mounts!