The 1st project horse which might beat me. : (

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thatsmygirl

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Iv had a project for 8 months ish, went right back to basics and had real problems getting him through the ground work ( lunging, long reining ) he would rear up and over on the long reins and would not listen lunging at all. Anyway we are over that and he's perfect so over the last month iv been increasing ridden work ( lunging first ) once settled in the school we hack out. He has chucked it all at me, we rear we rodeo but when he's good he's good. Silly little things like waiting for a car will set him off on a rodeo show down the road, always have warning as he puts his back right up first. It came to a head yeserday when I took him in the school and as I was riding him he would not settle ( bad up all the time) than he went mad, big rodeo show round the school and when he relised I wasn't coming off he started rearing and leaping forward off all fours ( he was not going to stop until I had come off) in the end he reared so high I threw myself off sidewards as he went over. I'm so depressed about it all as he's been coming on well and yes will rear etc but nothing like yeserday. All tack, back etc fine so I may actually be giving up on my first project ever and iv done a few. I did lunge he well after and got back on and hacked him out but he was very un settled. I'm sore and stiff today and am un sure how to play this now. I don't want to give up but I don't want to fall and hurt my back if he tries this out on the lanes ( fractured my back last summer in nasty riding accident) what do you guys make off his behaviour? Any advice welcome? He's sweet as on the ground in every way possible.
 
Oh dear, that does not sound like a heck of a lot of fun and you're certainly very brave to continue.

I probably am not the best qualified to give advice on bringing on a problem horse like this but, from everything you say this does sound like a horse in some severe discomfort and it may be he will always be like this and isn't suitable for riding.

I would suggest getting his back/neck etc looked at again as it does scream of a pain response.
 
We have a horse like this on our yard. It's quite bad because he reverses into other horses as well and managed to squish my leg once. They are sending him away to a riding college for a year.

Not sure what to suggest as you've said his back is fine etc. Does he act in the same way if he's ridden by other people?

I guess just listen to your head and take each day as it comes as nothing happens overnight.
 
He sounds to me as though he needs to have his back investigated thoroughly by a vet, his behaviour is typical kissing spine type behaviour. has he had it scanned to investigate the possibility or is it just a 'back person' who has said it is fine?
 
Oh I know exactly how you feel. I failed with my last project too, it really gets to you when you've been used to success with horses other people have failed with.

I doubt if it will be any help, but in the end I realised that my rodeo horse was terrified because he was going blind. The slightest thing would set him off and he was absolutely wild. He's the only horse I've had who could put me on the floor whenever he wanted, and he wanted all right!!

So I would suggest that you do what I did - sit down with a very big piece of paper and map out his behaviour in bubbles, linking one bubble to another when there is a connection. Think of absolutely everything you can, however tiny and irrelevant it seems by itself. By the time we'd done that, we concluded that we really did have a four year old with an extremely rare (unheard of!) eye condition, called a vet and even she was surprised when she looked into his eyes.

The "mind map" might just pinpoint a cause for you like it did for me. If not, and you have to give up with this horse, all my sympathies are with you and try not to blame yourself.
 
I also think he must be in pain somewhere, especially as he is so sweet on the ground. I would get a vet to check him over thoroughly. Kissing spines can be hard to spot. ALso what about his mouth, when was the dentist last out? Could be a problem with sharp teeth/bit (sorry if you've already checked this!)

Keep trying, I am sure there will be a reason for this behaviour, your horse just needs you to find it!
 
I can totally empathise. I had a mare like this had her from a yearling and backed her at 4 (she was A total bitch in the stable too.) I'd had everything checked out and she was fine... The final straw was when she did a bizzarre forward somersault when I was getting on once and landed on top of me (I was legged up so there was no pressure on her back when she did this) My Mum sold her to a girl who thought she could re back her (whilst I was in hospital due to the injuries) and she ended up in hospital 4 months later... the horse was put to sleep.

I genuinely believe that she had some mental illness cos NOTHING bad had ever happened to that mare and no one could find anything physical wrong with her

Blitz
 
The mind map sounds like a good idea.

Also, what have you done to investigate his back and tack? Many people say 'yes yes, I've had his tack checked' when in fact all they've had done is a saddler have a quick look and possible a vet poke and say the backs fine (very few vets are any good at backs - they do ONE PARAGRAPH in their training on 'bad backs' ;)).

Have you had a full lameness work up? A proper qualified physio out? It costs time and money but it's essential in situations of such extreme behaviour.
 
also worth looking into brain issues (but costly!) i used to ride a palamino mare Amber that was a dream one min & a psyco the next, full body scan turned up a huge tumor at base of brain after she got herself squished by a lorry (went over backards with new owner into the road)
 
Sounds like an extreme pain reaction - could well be something like kissing spines :(

you may well have to put your hand in your pocket and get the vet out for a proper professional assessment - and stop riding him before you get seriously hurt - no horse is worth risking a broken back for


LaurenM said:
We have a horse like this on our yard. It's quite bad because he reverses into other horses as well and managed to squish my leg once. They are sending him away to a riding college for a year.
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sorry to digress from the OP but they're doing what???? sounds deeply irresponsible to me :( :(
 
I would stop riding him. You clearly know what your doing and if you aren't getting through you need to look at what investigation you can do. It could be a brain tumour, although mine with one went from angel to evil over a much shorter period (about 3 months). At the end of the day if he is not safe to ride he should be a companion or PTS. Horses are dangerous enough without riding one that wants to hurt you. A horrible situation, but how much worse if you have another terrible accident? Or if he goes mental on the road and kills a motorist?
 
KittyH said:
I would stop riding him. You clearly know what your doing and if you aren't getting through you need to look at what investigation you can do. It could be a brain tumour, although mine with one went from angel to evil over a much shorter period (about 3 months). At the end of the day if he is not safe to ride he should be a companion or PTS. Horses are dangerous enough without riding one that wants to hurt you. A horrible situation, but how much worse if you have another terrible accident? Or if he goes mental on the road and kills a motorist?
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Agree with this sadly:(

Personally, I would not endanger yourself anymore, you have done well to keep at it this long tbh, it may be time to make a decision, you can't win them all and you have given him a chance he otherwise would not have had, so don't see it as a failure, there are some horses that for whatever reason, you simply can't help.
 
My first thought on this one would be something like a brain tumor or kissing spine, they are 2 problems that cause really severe reactions, i know from personal experience that a horse with a tumor feels much different when it "goes" and there is no rhyme or reason to why they do it, also their eye changes when they are having a moment, as for the kissing spine.. is he standing differently at all when at rest, often a horse with kissing spine will hold his neck a bit higher and hollow the back.

Really hope it is neither of these 2 things and that he has something very simple that you can work on,

best of luck
 
Kissing spine is a sersious thought off mine as well, I like the idea off the mind map. The rodeo when we have to pull in or turn back for a car I put down to nappyness as he trys to turn for home and when you correct him it's like he's saying sod off. Yeserday in the school there was a horse on the walker screaming his head off but he has to get use to others around. Normally I do him 6am in the morning when the yard is quiet and yeserday cause I was late up I worked with him in the evening when the yard was busy. I have meet horses out hacking and he was fine walked right past and carried on which surprised me.
I took him on as a dangerous horse who had been up and down the country and I'm afraid i'm his last stop. If I can't sort his problems out he will either stay with me as a companion or be pts end off. My young son loves him and can do anything on the ground with him and I trust him 110% with him. and he follows me around and watches my every move.
I will get a back person back out and would like x rays off his spine to rule kissing spine out.
He use to be a useful horse who evented at local level and the owner had him 7 yrs but after being turned away while she had kids he wouldn't come back into work. A breaking yard had him for a while but they couldn't get the rearing out off him. So she sold him and iv traced every owner and it's the same all alone.
Worst comes to worst he can live his days out with me but I just don't want to end up in hospital in the mean time.
 
i know it's a bit of a weird one, but have you tried him bareback, just at walk say, with someone leading at first? if he does start, you can just slide off, hopefully...
i had one rather like this years ago and it turned out to be a saddle problem even though a Master Saddler had assured me his saddle fitted perfectly... I believed the saddler, not the horse, like a chuffing idiot.
or... i've heard nothing but good things of Chris Collis at Avonvale, that they do thermography photographs (in temp controlled stable) and then treat accordingly. a friend's horse, which dumped me royally twice many yearsa ago in ridiculous rodeo shows (which started utterly out of the blue) ended up there (after lots of other treatments etc) and the thermo photos showed that he was wrong all the way down the spine. a few treatments and he never looked back, and never bronc'd again...
v v best of luck with him, but take care of yourself too...
 
spacefaer said:
Sounds like an extreme pain reaction - could well be something like kissing spines :(

you may well have to put your hand in your pocket and get the vet out for a proper professional assessment - and stop riding him before you get seriously hurt - no horse is worth risking a broken back for




sorry to digress from the OP but they're doing what???? sounds deeply irresponsible to me :( :(
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I actually totally agree with this, that horse should not be going to a college at all. That's totally stupid.
 
If it comes to it, there are far worse fates for a horse than being a field pet or even being pts, and you have given him a really good chance, so don't beat yourself up if it does come to that.
 
Agree with what most have said re; kissing spine, tumour and to get the tack/back seriously checked. Thorough vet work up may be needed too.

However, what you have achieved is an incredible thing and in no way have you 'lost' to the horse. All you have done is learn all about him and that in itself is far more than what anyone else has done. Don't feel defeated. Hugs. - oh and stay safe.
 
Stop riding him..... at least on roads where it sounds like you can be a danger not only to you/himself but to others aswell.

I would say bung him out for a month and then start again, but reading that that is what started it all, perhaps not the best plan!

get your vet to do a proper exam, and go from there.

At least he has some sort of future with you if hisridden behaviour doesnt improve, which is always nice to read :)
 
I had one that we thought must have a brain tumour, she was so crazily unpredictable and there didn't seem to be any real pattern to it (although if we'd done a mind map we might have picked it up sooner). By chance we found that she was allergic/sensitive to the feed we were giving her. She was like a different animal within a week.
 
If you're sure he is not in pain or there are no problems, for the price, try this bit - http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/P/...ifney_anti_rearing_bit_leading_bit-(484).aspx

at my old yard one horse was so bad, there was no issues, they'd spent thousands looking for one, some new lady at yard saw it one day and said oh try this, and she's rarely done more than a hop since! x

cleary dont ride in itt but u can lead, lunge etc, the thought if it should be enough to put her off doing it under saddle to x
 
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Sorry, but if he is lovely on the ground he certainly does not need a chifney!! And lunging in one...?!

I would agree with most of the other posts, sounds like theres something not quite right somewhere, and Im inclined to think its probably not tack related if hes good some of the time.
Please dont think this horse has 'beaten' you - I ve been in the same situation myself, but some of them just are not workable with and will always just be too dangerous. If you can afford it, I would investigate the brain tumour route, but it sound slike you have given this horse a lot of chances that miost people wouldnt have already.
Good luck
 
If it was brain tumour related, wouldn't I have problems other than ridden work??
He's a saint to handle, groom, clip, bring in, catch, in fact a perfect companion in always and never ever nasty to other horses and loves being part off the herd.
Lunging etc he doesn't need a chifney and tbh I won't use them, they are horrid things and if I had one put in my mouth it would make me rear. He isn't strong being ridden either.
Def going to start doing checks and ruleing things out one by one, and the funny thing is he's quite happy coming in by day and waits by the gate to be first in and eats breakfast and lies down to sleep. He really is a sweetheart. I just think if it was tumour there should be other signs to?
Food wise he gets topspec lite and topchop lite and all hay soaked over night ( very good doer)
thanks for all your advice you have made me feel a bit better about things and ideas to look into which is great. But what ever happens he's so loved by the whole family cause he's the charater off the herd and has finally relised I think that he now has a home and not just a passing home yet again.
Thanks guys :)
 
you are very brave and also good for you for continuing. I havent read all of the replies, but I would suggest a second opinion on the back with a different chiro. I had a mctimoney lady look at a horse for me, said there was no pain, 6 months later and getting no where another chiro came out and found a great deal of pain which i witnessed. I wouldnt believe it unless something like that happened but would recommend a second look.

The horse is telling you he is not happy...failing that theres always the route of sending horse hair off to an animal communicator. Thats worked for me too when I had no other way to go
 
I'd go with the kissing spines possibility too - the only one I have ever dealt with chucked me off randomly before she was diagnosed. The last time she did it, she was rearing and plunging (spelling??), but she was really nice to handle otherwise.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I had one that we thought must have a brain tumour, she was so crazily unpredictable and there didn't seem to be any real pattern to it (although if we'd done a mind map we might have picked it up sooner). By chance we found that she was allergic/sensitive to the feed we were giving her. She was like a different animal within a week.
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Very good point.

My friend spent a LOT of money buying a stunning young 'school master' ISH type but had nothing but problems with him as a serious bronc-er :( He was polite, gentle and well mannered on the ground but a serious and dangerous bucker.

After spending literally thousands and thousands of pounds trying to fix him (and discovering from the orginal owner that the person he's bought him off had lied about him and he'd always been a bucker) she eventually sold him then, typically :rolleyes: , was contacted by a previous loaner of his, who said he was serverely grain intolderant.

They'd discovered that even handful of anything with grain in it sent him mad and also caused him to loose weight (keeping weight on was always an issue for him). It made his overly sensitive and spooky and a nightmare to ride - it just fried his brain and ability to think, as well as making his skin overly sensitive.

It would be worth trying an exculsion diet as well as medical checks. Start off on JUST soaked hay for a couple of weeks (he'll loose weight but it's not the end of the world) and slowly introduce things, inc grass, one by one.
 
Have you had a fresh set of eyes on him? Vet investigation? Dentist out?
Apart from those, I would turn him away as a companion, to me, a horse like this that has had experienced work, does not enjoy being ridden, is not a useful horse to have and tbh-what's the point in taking the risk??
 
He has no grain in his diet but may be worth looking into. It's all topspec I feed as iv had great sucess changing horses onto this diet.
Somebody said about watching somebody else riding him but nobody I know would get on him and I'm not perpaired to let anybody else ride him. He will start getting looked into but not going to start riding him until/if we can work out why. He's not happy being ridden at the moment so I'm not going to stress him out more or make matters worst.
 
Sorry to hear you're having such a hard time with him.

Might sound basic, but have you had a full lameness work up?

We had a mare who displayed similar behaviour, started with bucking in the canter transition, progressed to full blown rodeo-ing & rearing. She would be perfectly settled, then would just explode with no obvious trigger.

Spent so long looking at back, neck, saddle etc, with nothing identified. Changed to a new vet who identified 1/10 lameness on a circle on hard ground, even though I never felt any lameness under saddle.

X-rays found spavin in hocks. We treated with cortisoid & steroid injections, gave winter off & bought her back into work once sound. Behaviour vanished, she never bucked, reared or rodeo-ed again.

Spavin may seem like a simple or common enough thing, but she was obviously in a fair amount of pain. I can see now that whenever I asked her to engage her hocks, or turn on a small circle (like to get out of the way of cars out hacking), it hurt. I didn't listen when she started bucking, so it just progressed until her behaviour was so extreme :(

Sorry if I'm rambling! Just if you're looking to eliminate all possible causes, it might be something worth ruling out :)
 
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