The 20% rule

[Leo Walker]

I have said twice in this thread that some horses can comfortably carry 20% of their weight. I don't know if you missed that or if you are being deliberately obtuse.

Not at all, but you did start this thread saying

I just had my five year old weighed on a weigh bridge. She is just over 15 hands and weighs 471 kg. That means that by the 20% rule she can carry up to 94 kg (which is almost 15 stone). Personally, I find this quite ridiculous.

And another prolific poster said:

Absolute maximum for any horse of any type - 20%

Young, old, not in regular conditioning work of a serious nature - deduct 20%

Horse is overweight - deduct the amount of weight that the horse is carrying in his own fat.

Rider is unbalanced/novice/poor muscle tone - deduct 20%

Horse is average width across the loins and fairly good conformation - minus 20%

Horse is narrow across the loins/long in the back/long legged especially in the cannon bones/small tight joints - minus 30%

Maximum deduction for multiple issues 50%

Then we got bogged down in deciding if people were suitable depending on how aesthetically pleasing their photos were. With one poster saying that she would tell a rider to dismount from their own horse as he was over her limits.

 

[cobgoblin]

I see this has degenerated into outraged nit picking as usual.

 

[Mongoose11]

You seem to have picked up on my horse a few times and missed that I as the rider of the horse entirely agree that I am on the heavy side for her?

She is a very fine boned, small horse and the extra bit is that she is 23 and a little bit creaky these days. Therefore in my opinion and others seem to agree she shouldn't be expected to be carrying near the 20% mark which with me riding she is.

So for us judgment from a picture seems representative.

Apologies, you have misunderstood me. I referred to you many times simply because it was a case in point that pictures can be deceiving! I didn't ever suggest you were too heavy for your horse.

To me, you looked like a fair match for the horse and the stats say the same (age and physical health not considered).

 

[rachk89]

Really?!? I thought I'd over horses myself! I get so self conscious about being too small!

Definitely not! In fact you can probably go for a smaller pony.

 

[Wagtail]

Not at all, but you did start this thread saying



And another prolific poster said:



Then we got bogged down in deciding if people were suitable depending on how aesthetically pleasing their photos were. With one poster saying that she would tell a rider to dismount from their own horse as he was over her limits.

I started this thread saying that 20% was ridiculous for MY horse. That does not mean that 20% is ridiculous for ANY horse. I do think however, those that can comfortably carry 20% are in a small minority and a safer value to advise people is 15%. But it seems that there are some on here who would rather adversely affect the welfare of horses just so they feel better themselves.

 

[ycbm]

And another prolific poster said:

You top and tailed that quote and make it look like I was telling everyone what the rules should be. In fact the top and tails invited discussion. Shame we can't just have one

I would love to discuss whether other people think my first stab at a set of guidelines to help people decide what weight their horse can carry make any sense. Anyone?

 

[Wagtail]

I see this has degenerated into outraged nit picking as usual.

Yes. Same old same old.

 

[FfionWinnie]

I'll continue to use my common sense.

 

[Goldenstar]

I'll continue to use my common sense.

Best plan .

 

[Mongoose11]

I started this thread saying that 20% was ridiculous for MY horse. That does not mean that 20% is ridiculous for ANY horse. I do think however, those that can comfortably carry 20% are in a small minority and a safer value to advise people is 15%. But it seems that there are some on here who would rather adversely affect the welfare of horses just so they feel better themselves.

I do think that's unfair. Who are the 'some' people that you speak of with such authority? Is it me who won't ride their horse when they hit 18% despite being told by everyone going that I should and the horse still wanting to tank around with me? Is it FC who has also stopped riding in the past when weight has become an issue despite being told numerous times by her vet to get on and do?

Who are the 'some people' who adversely want to affect the horse's welfare? I think your perspective is too extreme and mine sits somewhere in between yours and the 20% rule - what's so bad about that?

Why do you continually make personal comments?

 

[Bernster]

Ok, have caught up now. Some interesting discussion in the earlier parts of this thread in particular. I have heard of the 20% rule but like anything like averages and general guides, it's v rough and takes no account of individual rider or horse issues.

I suspect 15% is a more useful rough guide. But horse conformation and issues def a major factor. Like Rach, I am probably more like 17% all in for this boy (this is prob the clearest side-on pic I have), but that's using a weight tape which I think tends to underestimate?

I'm too heavy for my other horse who's got back issues and is coming back into work, so i don't ride her.

Pics are terrible however, as it's proven already on here just how difficult it is to judge people's weights, let alone horses!

I've also joined the wobbleberry challenge so hoping that will inspire me to lose weight and get fit for next year!

 

[Mongoose11]

Bernster, your weight tape is likely to be out by at least 50kg in my experience.

 

[Holding]

Perhaps somebody could create an 'am I too big for my horse' handy flowchart. To include questions such as "is your arse bigger than the horse's?", "when you mount, does your horse stagger like a drunk?", "after dismounting is your horse's back two inches closer to the ground?", and "half way through your ride, does your horse stop and try to swap places with you?" I think it's mainly common sense, looking at a horse and knowing any pertinent details (age, pre-existing conditions etc.) I usually can tell if I'm too big. And if I'm unsure I err on the side of caution and don't get on.

 

[Leo Walker]

But it seems that there are some on here who would rather adversely affect the welfare of horses just so they feel better themselves.

Who? Because if you dont specify then thats just a snidey comment designed to wind people up who dont agree with you. Its also, yet again, incredibly rude.

You top and tailed that quote and make it look like I was telling everyone what the rules should be. In fact the top and tails invited discussion. Shame we can't just have one

I would love to discuss whether other people think my first stab at a set of guidelines to help people decide what weight their horse can carry make any sense. Anyone?

Who cant? Its still a discussion even when I dont agree with you. I posted several pages back saying that professional, qualified, experienced people disagreed with you and if people are concerned or even just interested then thats who they should be taking advice from.

Its apparent from this thread alone that people have different ideas, and that some people appear to be basing those ideas on what people look like, not on the facts or the research. And even then theres no agreement.

 

[Bernster]

Perhaps somebody could create an 'am I too big for my horse' handy flowchart. To include questions such as "is your arse bigger than the horse's?", "when you mount, does your horse stagger like a drunk?", "after dismounting is your horse's back two inches closer to the ground?", and "half way through your ride, does your horse stop and try to swap places with you?" I think it's mainly common sense, looking at a horse and knowing any pertinent details (age, pre-existing conditions etc.) I usually can tell if I'm too big. And if I'm unsure I err on the side of caution and don't get on.

Haha!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Bernster, your weight tape is likely to be out by at least 50kg in my experience.

This. Weightapes are good for keeping track of gain and loss but aren't actually accurate as to the real weight of the horse. A weighbridge is far more accurate.

 

[Broc]

My total weight with tack on my 14.1 heavy gypsy cob is 12.5 stone, panicking now that I am way too heavy for him......

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I have found that quoting the 20% rule is very useful with non horsey people. If they are used to dogs and cats, my 15hh arab looks HUGE by comparison and they can't imagine that she wouldn't be able to carry them even though they are actually far too big for her. So to be able to say, I'm sorry but horses can only carry a maximum of 20% of their weight and that includes the saddle, your clothes etc... is really handy.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

My total weight with tack on my 14.1 heavy gypsy cob is 12.5 stone, panicking now that I am way too heavy for him......

I'd not panic if he's a true heavy cob, amount of bone and conformation are the big players in weight carrying ability.

Topaz has a lot of bone, with short cannons and a strong conformation (leg in each corner, though is a touch long behind the saddle maybe), so can carry a lot more weight for her height than if Doodle was her height as Doodle is a very finely built.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

My total weight with tack on my 14.1 heavy gypsy cob is 12.5 stone, panicking now that I am way too heavy for him......

Can your pony work in a nice outline with uphill paces? Can he still bog off with across a stubble field? If yes then your totally grand! My shetlands still bog off with me when the mood takes them and that would be them carrying just over 10St!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Can your pony work in a nice outline with uphill paces? Can he still bog off with across a stubble field? If yes then your totally grand! My shetlands still bog off with me when the mood takes them and that would be them carrying just over 10St!

:lol: If we're going off ability to be sods mine are definitely good carrying me around :lol:

 

[Wagtail]

Who? Because if you dont specify then thats just a snidey comment designed to wind people up who dont agree with you. Its also, yet again, incredibly rude.

Not a snidey comment at all. I set up this thread in the interests of horse welfare. On the back of other threads where thankfully some authorities are taking action on people being to heavy for their mounts, and on the back of my mare having had her first weigh in yesterday. The usual people including yourself then argue that actually, it is okay to ride their horse at 22% and that vets etc have told you it's okay. I don't think this is in anyway conducive to horse welfare to potentially encourage others that it is perfectly fine to do so. I can only think you oppose any attempt by myself or others such as ycbm to try to have a serious discussion regarding the weight bearing ability of horses because it must make you feel better.

As for Mongoose, who knows what is buzzing around in her head? She just gives me the impression that she is a complete fruit loop. Yes this may seem rude, but when someone stalks your threads regardless of subject matter, and regardless of the fact that I have made it clear that I will not engage with her, she continues to make a spectacle of herself. That is my honest opinion. I think she is unhealthily obsessed with me and it's creepy. That is why I do not answer her posts.

 

[Mongoose11]

Not a snidey comment at all. I set up this thread in the interests of horse welfare. On the back of other threads where thankfully some authorities are taking action on people being to heavy for their mounts, and on the back of my mare having had her first weigh in yesterday. The usual people including yourself then argue that actually, it is okay to ride their horse at 22% and that vets etc have told you it's okay. I don't think this is in anyway conducive to horse welfare to potentially encourage others that it is perfectly fine to do so. I can only think you oppose any attempt by myself or others such as ycbm to try to have a serious discussion regarding the weight bearing ability of horses because it must make you feel better.

As for Mongoose, who knows what is buzzing around in her head? She just gives me the impression that she is a complete fruit loop. Yes this may seem rude, but when someone stalks your threads regardless of subject matter, and regardless of the fact that I have made it clear that I will not engage with her, she continues to make a spectacle of herself. That is my honest opinion. I think she is unhealthily obsessed with me and it's creepy. That is why I do not answer her posts.

Out of the last 50 threads you have started I have commented on five 🙄

Five threads out of fifty does not an a obsessive make.

Your comments are inappropriate. Nowhere have I made personal comments about you, I've simply disagreed with you and pointed out some flaws in your approach.

 

[YorksG]

Out of the last 50 threads you have started I have commented on five 🙄

Five threads out of fifty does not an a obsessive make.

Your comments are inappropriate. Nowhere have I made personal comments about you, I've simply disagreed with you and pointed out some flaws in your approach.

You did however make a rather sweeping statement that lighter riders are bitter if eaten, can you imagine the outcry if someone had suggested that larger people would be too greasy to eat?

 

[Merlod]

Personanlly I think it should be the riders weight should be at 10% because no one ever factors in the tack or 15% if you include tack.

 

[Mongoose11]

You did however make a rather sweeping statement that lighter riders are bitter if eaten, can you imagine the outcry if someone had suggested that larger people would be too greasy to eat?

I'd imagine that is fatties would be rather more greasy to eat 😂 That makes perfect sense!

 

[YorksG]

I did. You're right - I'm not sure what that has to do with the point that I have made above. That wasn't a personal comment aimed at Wagtail. I've had enough opportunity to respond to her in a personal way and I haven't.

I'd imagine that is fatties would be rather more greasy to eat �� That makes perfect sense!

So just a gratuitously unpleasant comment aimed at all lighter riders, charming.

 

[Mongoose11]

So just a gratuitously unpleasant comment aimed at all lighter riders, charming.

Apologies for causing offence here.

 

[Mongoose11]

Personanlly I think it should be the riders weight should be at 10% because no one ever factors in the tack or 15% if you include tack.

I think plenty of people do include the tack but would we really need to add another 5% for tack?

 

[Annagain]

My two are about 640kg and 670kg respectively (16.3 and 17hh hunter types) at peak fitness. With tack, at my heaviest (have lost 1 1/2 stones since then) I weigh in at around the 15% mark, I'm more like 13-14% at the moment and I'm comfortable with that but wouldn't want to ride a much smaller horse.

At our riding club camp last year, we had a feed company with a weighbridge. With the exception of one VERY obese horse, my two were the heaviest. The next three were quite surprising. The first was a 15.2 chunky Warmblood who is a big lump of solid bone. (if you asked me his height I would say 16.2 because he is just so imposing) who was 630kg. Next was a 14.3 real traditional cob and a 17hh ex national hunt horse who were both 580kg. While I expected the TB to not be as heavy as the warmblood I though his extra 9 inches would make him heavier than the cob. I also expected both the TB and the cob to be lighter than quite a few 16hh-ish middleweight riding club horse types who turned out to be surprisingly light.

TB's rider is 6' and slim but weighs about the same as me (5'7" and apple shaped with short legs). She looks great on him, whereas I look like a weeble balancing on the edge of a surfboard. It just goes to show how difficult it is to guesstimate weight (of horse and rider) and how photos could be deceiving.