The bl**dy horse

[poiuytrewq]

I had a mare a few years ago that I purchased knowing she was ‘a bit sharp’. I got her relatively cheap and had a good summer on her.
Late autumn/early winter arrived and she completely changed personality. Sharper than sharp. I came off her badly three times, the yard staff didn’t want to handle her - she was loopy to handle and was only happy in her stable.
I was convinced by a trainer that it was my riding and I wasn’t good enough. I persevered through winter and sold her in the spring with total transparency. She flew through the vetting and the new owners had a good summer and a repeat performance in winter. They investigated and found chronic neuralgia triggered by wind. In hindsight every time I’d come off her it had been windy and I’d been riding her outdoors.
I wish I had investigated myself but I was convinced it was my riding.

I totally get that. There’s a lot of me thinking maybe he’d be fine with a better rider.
It’s so hard to call isn’t it.

 

[tyner]

I vaguely remember but again didn’t take. Lot of notice as it was irrelevant at the time. Equivit vitamin e isn’t the best, which is good?

Forage Plus and Progressive Earth do a natural vitamin E supplement it's worth paying for the natural over the synthetic

 

[tyner]

I totally get that. There’s a lot of me thinking maybe he’d be fine with a better rider.
It’s so hard to call isn’t it.

Please don't blame yourself -- you were a fine rider over the summer with the trainer and doing so well as you shared earlier. That hasn't changed.

The seasonal nature of this suggests something external is going on.Its not you.

 

[rextherobber]

Def try more rugs if his old owner had more on.
Mine if i dont get the rugging right would try and dump me, politely, if i tried to ride him when he was chilly/cold. I treat as pssm 1 but since he has been diagnosed with cushings he temp regulation has been odd. He is more of a hotter horse than before


Also have you tried Valerian? Its by lincon and its worked wonders on my sisters boy. She was at her wits end and then went *Bleep it* and tried the banned substance under FEI

And its only £15 a bottle and lasts at least a month.

Valerian is in Even keel ( well, they do one with, one without, in case you're competing ) I had huge success with it, could replace ACP with it. I think, in addition to rugging well, I'd ask Michael Peace to have a look at him, or send him there. He sounds like he's having as little fun as you are, and I'd definitely need specialist help with him. Good luck, hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[Ceifer]

I would definitely get a good vet to have a look.
I was horrified when I found out about the mare by this point I didn’t even own but had got involved at the behest of her new owners. The vet said that the pain she was probably experiencing would be akin to a migraine/stabbing headache.
She had flown through 2 vettings in under a year with x-rays.

OP you mentioned headshaking in the summer - to what extent was this investigated?

 

[Ceifer]

I totally get that. There’s a lot of me thinking maybe he’d be fine with a better rider.
It’s so hard to call isn’t it.

Yep well I’m hindsight prior to purchasing my mare she had been ridden by a strong pro and I am adamant that it suppressed some of the worse aspects of her behaviour. She also evented which obviously is a summer activity so a quiet winter wouldn’t look suspect.

 

[Lois Lame]

Weirdly as an after thought. Previous owner claimed never to have had a problem but imo did massively over rug, I kept him at that level at first as I had him mid winter but have since dropped him back to what I thought suitable (I err on under rather than over rugging)
I wonder if that’s anything relevant.

Could be.

 

[Lois Lame]

Could be. Put warmer rugs on.

Sorry, I laughed because I think exactly the same.

 

[pistolpete]

Can’t remember who it was but a friend had this and had great success using a quarter sheet. She likened it to the dogs thunder shirt. Maybe he has some strange skin sensitivity as it gets cooler? Easy enough to try.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Sorry, I laughed because I think exactly the same.

I’m unsure why thou laughed still but In a regular way he’s plenty warm enough. When I have cut rugs down as that winter I worked out he was wearing about the equivilant to 8/900g and wrapped up like a Michelin man, he doesn’t need all that, but if this PSSM causes them to be more sensitive to cold (even if they feel warm to the touch?)
Then it’s absolutely worth a try.

I did use a sheet a lot last year, not now so much but when it’s colder. I’m not remember img much difference.
Again though the first bit of winter I had him he was clipped and barely in any work so I was using a polypad exercise sheet which is super warm. I’ll find that out.
Will order Vitamin E - how long would that take to get into his system?

 

[poiuytrewq]

I would definitely get a good vet to have a look.
I was horrified when I found out about the mare by this point I didn’t even own but had got involved at the behest of her new owners. The vet said that the pain she was probably experiencing would be akin to a migraine/stabbing headache.
She had flown through 2 vettings in under a year with x-rays.

OP you mentioned headshaking in the summer - to what extent was this investigated?

To be perfectly honest very little. I did speak to the vet about it and agreed it was likely pollen related as some days he was fine, others he’d shake. Those days he’d be quite snorty. It was also worse in certain places locally and he’d stop completely in others.
She did say we could do investigations but I tried Nostril Vet first as a friend had some spare and it worked so well that I left it at that.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Valerian is in Even keel ( well, they do one with, one without, in case you're competing ) I had huge success with it, could replace ACP with it. I think, in addition to rugging well, I'd ask Michael Peace to have a look at him, or send him there. He sounds like he's having as little fun as you are, and I'd definitely need specialist help with him. Good luck, hope you get to the bottom of it.

I’m a big fan of Micheal Peace. My fear with that would be he’s expensive, not saying I’d not pay or he’s not worth it- not at all but I can’t guarantee he won’t be quiet as a lamb the day he comes out!
He’s not a prat every single day, if it gets to that point I’d absolutely consider contacting him. He’s fairly local to me I believe

 

[scats]

I’m fairly sure Polly has PSSM. She is a changed horse now that she’s on vitamin e and is rugged. Her box walking and idiotic behaviour has calmed down massively. One night recently I just put a fleece on as it was warmer and I got down the next day to a tucked up, box walking, mulched bed mess.
It was last November that she exploded and broke my leg, and interestingly it was a cold, fresh day and she’d been rugless overnight.

 

[quiteniceforacob]

Well that's a weird one. Worse behaviour as the days get shorter, with no change in hours stabled?

Is it possible he's sub clinical PSSM while the weather is warm enough but badly affected by the cold? He wouldn't be the first.
.

Yep I was going to say PSSM. Mine isn’t like this but becomes more difficult to handle when the weather gets cooler, generally more impatient with life. First winter since diagnosis and trying him on all relevant supplements so fingers crossed.

 

[ycbm]

I’m a big fan of Micheal Peace. My fear with that would be he’s expensive, not saying I’d not pay or he’s not worth it- not at all but I can’t guarantee he won’t be quiet as a lamb the day he comes out!
He’s not a prat every single day, if it gets to that point I’d absolutely consider contacting him. He’s fairly local to me I believe

This inconsistent behaviour sounds very PSSM-ish to me. There could well be a reason why the previous owner over rugged.
.

 

[rabatsa]

I had one that was seriously affected by air pressure changes, making him unsafe and the other equines scared of him.

 

[ycbm]

I had one that was seriously affected by air pressure changes, making him unsafe and the other equines scared of him.

Ooh, never heard of that. Something wrong with the insides of his ears, maybe?

 

[planete]

I know it is not an accepted idea but vitamin E and NO magnesium in feed or supplements seems to be doing the trick for my pony who very probably suffers from a muscle myopathy. I took him off all magnesium in desperation last autumn and so far this year he has remained on an even keel.

 

[Frano]

Have you had any veterinary involvement. Blood tests etc.

 

[maya2008]

Weirdly as an after thought. Previous owner claimed never to have had a problem but imo did massively over rug, I kept him at that level at first as I had him mid winter but have since dropped him back to what I thought suitable (I err on under rather than over rugging)
I wonder if that’s anything relevant.

My first thought on reading your post was that he’s cold. You want ears warm at the tip not just the base in a sensitive horse. My TB was like that. Rugged her up so much in winter it was unreal, but it made her happy. I would rug up as he was when he came and see what happens!

 

[tyner]

Can’t remember who it was but a friend had this and had great success using a quarter sheet. She likened it to the dogs thunder shirt. Maybe he has some strange skin sensitivity as it gets cooler? Easy enough to try.

also I was thinking of those titanium mask things with the ears. I don't know if its a gimmick because we will really buy anything but it certainly seems like it would have been helpful for the mare mentioned by @Ceifer

Titanium Calming MaskHas anyone used these things?

 

[poiuytrewq]

Have you had any veterinary involvement. Blood tests etc.

No, I haven't. I really thought all was fine until just last week so have had no reason to. I am going to go down the PSSM route and try the above recommendations as it seems a unanimous suggestion. If I'm still having issues then I will.

I have upped his rugs this morning, He's currently in and I've gone from a fleece to a 100g combo and his fleece- Enough? More? He has literally every weight and type of rug out there so can alter easily.
Tonight he can go in a medium weight, I'm 99% certain he will sweat up in anything more at the moment.
This is also the horse i posted about, maybe after last winter because heavier rugs of any sort rub his withers, that could be a stumbling point. They have healed over the summer completely but there's still a bald patch.

I have also just ordered the Progressive Earth Vitamin E, the natural one. I'm hoping he will eat it as i vaguely a previous horse who was a pig turning his nose up at it. * fingers x'd

I've been reading about PSSM- not a huge amount but just since finishing work this morning briefly so far. What I'm reading seems to be mentioning horses tying up, after exercise, refusing to go forward ridden, muscle tremors and so on. None of this sounds like him. He is quite tense with tight muscles though. I've seen no mention of behavioural problems, although from all the replies this is obviously a big part of it.

 

[planete]

No, I haven't. I really thought all was fine until just last week so have had no reason to. I am going to go down the PSSM route and try the above recommendations as it seems a unanimous suggestion. If I'm still having issues then I will.

I have upped his rugs this morning, He's currently in and I've gone from a fleece to a 100g combo and his fleece- Enough? More? He has literally every weight and type of rug out there so can alter easily.
Tonight he can go in a medium weight, I'm 99% certain he will sweat up in anything more at the moment.
This is also the horse i posted about, maybe after last winter because heavier rugs of any sort rub his withers, that could be a stumbling point. They have healed over the summer completely but there's still a bald patch.

I have also just ordered the Progressive Earth Vitamin E, the natural one. I'm hoping he will eat it as i vaguely a previous horse who was a pig turning his nose up at it. * fingers x'd

I've been reading about PSSM- not a huge amount but just since finishing work this morning briefly so far. What I'm reading seems to be mentioning horses tying up, after exercise, refusing to go forward ridden, muscle tremors and so on. None of this sounds like him. He is quite tense with tight muscles though. I've seen no mention of behavioural problems, although from all the replies this is obviously a big part of it.

My pony has not tied up and does not have muscle tremors. He had a two day stay in an equine hospital undergoing loss of peformance exams and the only thing found was raised muscle enzymes after exercise, but a muscle biopsy would have been needed for a firm diagnosis. I believe some horses like mine may simply not feel right without supplementation of vitamin E and tweaking their management. Not sure what I believe about PSSM2, particularly about the testing. I am simply doing what seems to work for us.

 

[scats]

Polly is very fussy about supplements but she eats the vitamin e oil fine. I did introduce it fairly gradually.

 

[Ceifer]

also I was thinking of those titanium mask things with the ears. I don't know if its a gimmick because we will really buy anything but it certainly seems like it would have been helpful for the mare mentioned by @Ceifer

Titanium Calming MaskHas anyone used these things?

It would have been interesting to see it it would have helped. They weren’t a thing when I had the mare

 

[I'm Dun]

FWIW, mine (TB, PSSM type 2, p2/p3/px) recently had a few days of being absolutely nuts. He was behaving as if someone had turned a load of pigs out onto the field i.e. super stressed, staring, weaving - he weaves anyway but this was super frantic weaving. I stopped all his supplements & the mad behaviour tapered off & he is now (4 days later) back to normal. He was on pea protein powder, natural vit E, magnesium & spirulina. I have no idea which the culprit was as I stopped them all at once, but the super-stressedness tailed off with each successive day.

All those supplements are strongly recommended for type 2s but one of them obviously doesn't agree with him. The point of telling you this is that sometimes 'good' things can give bizarre reactions, so it might be worth stopping an 'innocent' supplement for a few days to see what happens. You would not believe that mine was the same horse from 4 days ago.

Bloody horses! Who'd have 'em...?!

(If 'anyone' would like to pick holes in me/my mgmt of my horses/etc, don't bother as you're on UI.)

Protein had mine acting like she was insane. She genuinely scared me she was so wired.

 

[I'm Dun]

No, I haven't. I really thought all was fine until just last week so have had no reason to. I am going to go down the PSSM route and try the above recommendations as it seems a unanimous suggestion. If I'm still having issues then I will.

I have upped his rugs this morning, He's currently in and I've gone from a fleece to a 100g combo and his fleece- Enough? More? He has literally every weight and type of rug out there so can alter easily.
Tonight he can go in a medium weight, I'm 99% certain he will sweat up in anything more at the moment.
This is also the horse i posted about, maybe after last winter because heavier rugs of any sort rub his withers, that could be a stumbling point. They have healed over the summer completely but there's still a bald patch.

I have also just ordered the Progressive Earth Vitamin E, the natural one. I'm hoping he will eat it as i vaguely a previous horse who was a pig turning his nose up at it. * fingers x'd

I've been reading about PSSM- not a huge amount but just since finishing work this morning briefly so far. What I'm reading seems to be mentioning horses tying up, after exercise, refusing to go forward ridden, muscle tremors and so on. None of this sounds like him. He is quite tense with tight muscles though. I've seen no mention of behavioural problems, although from all the replies this is obviously a big part of it.

Mine was fine some times, in fact she was absolutely amazing, but then some days she was backwards thinking, spooky and sharp. She wouldnt hack alone on those days despite being fine on others. She had a couple of explosive episodes. She never tied up. But she did have hard tight muscles. It was put down to her being fit, which she was. She was a different horse within 48 hours of high dose vitamin e, and within 2 weeks was unrecognisable. Just silly things like shes alway fidgeted when tied up, that stopped.

I did some experiments with a temperature sensor and found she was always a couple of degrees colder on the surface than every other horse. om a day like today when its 10 degrees and sunny but cold, she'd have 450gms on. And from there every few degrees colder I'd add a liner. I basically just kept adding lightweight liners until she was too hot, then went down a layer. It was crazy how much rugging she needed. I'd always very lightly rugged the poor girl.

Its £30 for the pssm type 1 test. Just do the test. Its cheaper than buying supplements and rugs etc and gives you an answer straught away. If you suspect type 2 thats way way more tricky, but seems unlikely. So start with the obvious thing and rule it in or out definitively.

 

[maya2008]

My TB had very prominent withers, which easily rubbed. We went for super light but warm. Anti-rub vest, fleece, human duvet, top rug with full neck. The duvet distributed the pressure. Horse rugs can be really heavy. She lived out, but in the depths of winter we made it all the way to a 13.5tog double duvet under a heavyweight turnout. No sweat, happy horse keeping the weight on who was not too hot or too cold. Rest of my herd got LW turnouts if they were lucky in snow or torrential rain. Now she’s gone I barely own any rugs !

 

[ycbm]

I've been reading about PSSM- not a huge amount but just since finishing work this morning briefly so far. What I'm reading seems to be mentioning horses tying up, after exercise, refusing to go forward ridden, muscle tremors and so on. None of this sounds like him. He is quite tense with tight muscles though. I've seen no mention of behavioural problems, although from all the replies this is obviously a big part of it.

None of the ones I've known have tied up but they've all had inconsistent spooky behaviour. One thing that often seems to upset them is the sound of driving rain on a roof, for some reason - memory of being cold?
.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

also I was thinking of those titanium mask things with the ears. I don't know if its a gimmick because we will really buy anything but it certainly seems like it would have been helpful for the mare mentioned by @Ceifer

Titanium Calming MaskHas anyone used these things?

My friend bought one for her stressy jumping horse and she didn't think it made any difference she did persevere with it as well.