charlimouse
Well-Known Member
A place beginning with E, not too far from Luxor, but can't for the life of me remember what the name of the actual place was called
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The Brooke animal hospital causes suffering to animals
- Thread starter stormalong
- Start date
A place beginning with E, not too far from Luxor, but can't for the life of me remember what the name of the actual place was called
!Ladydragon
Well-Known Member
Except for the accusation of substandard care, the statement that the organisation was 'corrupt to the core' and the forum should help 'expose' the charity...
That wasn't a "I'm concerned, what should I do" post...
Thanks for posting these photos... They offer a little perspective...
rhino
Well-Known Member
A place beginning with E, not too far from Luxor, but can't for the life of me remember what the name of the actual place was called
Thank you. I was just wondering if it was Luxor, as according to OP The Brooke were claiming not to have any vehicles there
Don't know any basis to these claims though, and the sheer fact she went to visit a Brooke clinic in Luxor (with lots of vehicles outside) seems counter intuitive to me.I quite agree. That was a prepared statement intended to undermine confidence in The Brooke. The fact it had been left for 2 weeks since the alleged incident would make it pretty sure that nothing could be done in investigating the condition of the horse itself
Very convenient.To the people criticising the Brooke's response yesterday, what were you expecting?
What do you really think they could have come back and said yesterday? They said they were looking in to it, and would update when they could, I don't really see what more they could do at that point 
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
Except for the accusation of substandard care, the statement that the organisation was 'corrupt to the core' and the forum should help 'expose' the charity...
That wasn't a "I'm concerned, what should I do" post...
/QUOTE]
I think it was - in a hysterical way. You don't know how you'd react until you've seen an animal or person suffer in a third world country... Was Bob Geldoff tactful,for example, when he shook the world to get help for Africa in the 80s...
No I don't think putting this thread on was the best thing to do, but equally, Brooke's response didn't seem overly worried. I'm not defending paticularly, just saying that I can understand her angle and don't think it was a "hate thread".
In Africa and other third world countries I've been to I have spoken to a lot of local people that work with poor people, and they say that not a lot of money from big charities get through to the real deservers. I've seen it a lot on the plane - lots of charity workers travelling out in first/business class... etc. So I can see that angle too.
Charliemouse those pics are great - its good to see their work in action, and those horses are a lot better condition than the ones I've seen in Cairo. I'd love to see shelters like that for them. Half the ones I've seen were lame as heck too.
rhino
Well-Known Member
Hysterical?
I didn't interpret it as being hysterical at all, it came across as a considered and well researched piece (if you were that concerned would you be looking up the balance sheet of the charity or who it's patrons were?) Emotive yes, but not hysterical.It wasn't an 'oh help I've seen something awful, what can I do' post in any way IMO.
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
Well we will have to agree to differ. It doesn't matter anyway. This thread is going nowhere!
hairycob
Well-Known Member
Well said Rhino - I suspect some people would not be happy unless all the trustees fell on their swords at any slight lapse from the very high standards of vetinary care we can afford to give in the west. I suspect that many critics have never been to a developing country & just don't realise that probably the majority of working horses in countries like Egypt would have us straight on the phone to WHW if we saw them here. Far more horses can be helped by relatively simple things like educating about tack, farriery & improving basic care than will be helped by advanced diagnostics & vetinary care that cannot be followed through at home. By the way, if you think the horses in Luxor etc have it bad, don't even dare to think about what it's like away from the tourist areas & areas covered by the various charities because it can be far, far worse.
rhino
Well-Known Member
If anyone wants to see pictures of the reality of life(!) for horses, here's an article. There are plenty more. Warning: photos you may find distressing
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-death-tourism-troubled-region-dwindles.html
And I don't think it matters if this thread is going anywhere or not. I fear the damage has been done. Let's just hope horses don't suffer because of it.
cambrica
Well-Known Member
Hopefully Rhino this thread will have to opposite reaction, with thanks to the photo's by Charlimouse it will certainly make me dig a bit deeper, so I don't think its a thread 'going nowhere'. It is highlighting the commitment of Brooke and the plight of these horses.
rhino
Well-Known Member
Cairo Farrier seems to be doing some amazing work - both educational and from a welfare standpoint - and HHOers are really involved with them. There are people trying to do the right thing, so fingers crossed conditions will improve
metalmare
Well-Known Member
I have little to say, because I think it has all been said.
I would just like to make two points.
1. Every charity will have good people and bad people working within it. But the world is surely a better place for charities (of any sort). They may not be perfect, but nor is the world, especially not the third world. If we worried overly about what every donated penny was spent on none of us would ever donate to any charity ever again! Well done to those people who give up their lives to work abroad in harsh conditions, making the world a better place.
2. Having been in several third world countries in Africa and the middle east, I have seen horses in sad condition. But I would like to defend the horse owners out there who do keep their horses in fantastic condition, despite the challenges they face. I have seen some very healthy arabs in parts of Jordan and Egypt, rippling with muscle, not overweight like many British horses. Their feet are neat and hard and their coats and gleaming with health. So commiserations to the poorer people and poor horses in the third world and congratulations to those who keep their animals looking so well!
I would just like to make two points.
1. Every charity will have good people and bad people working within it. But the world is surely a better place for charities (of any sort). They may not be perfect, but nor is the world, especially not the third world. If we worried overly about what every donated penny was spent on none of us would ever donate to any charity ever again! Well done to those people who give up their lives to work abroad in harsh conditions, making the world a better place.
2. Having been in several third world countries in Africa and the middle east, I have seen horses in sad condition. But I would like to defend the horse owners out there who do keep their horses in fantastic condition, despite the challenges they face. I have seen some very healthy arabs in parts of Jordan and Egypt, rippling with muscle, not overweight like many British horses. Their feet are neat and hard and their coats and gleaming with health. So commiserations to the poorer people and poor horses in the third world and congratulations to those who keep their animals looking so well!
littlemisslauren
Well-Known Member
The response from the Brooke has worried me enough to cancel my SO, I hope to be proven wrong.
rhino
Well-Known Member
What more did you expect them to say? They were only contacted yesterday
and are dealing with a centre in Egypt.Oh well, it looks like the HHO jury doesn't actually care to find out the truth anyway...
Wagtail
Horse servant
littlemisslauren
Well-Known Member
What more did you expect them to say? They were only contacted yesterday
Oh well, it looks like the HHO jury doesn't actually care to find out the truth anyway...
Sorry guys was going to add more but forgot to come back. I hadn't checked the dates of posts, so the timescale went un noticed to me.
Personally I felt the response was a brush off. With a phone call or email to the accused member of staff being enough to placify their concerns.
The accused vet is not going to admit to the situation the OP describes is he?
I do really hope that I regret what I have said, I have always supported Brooke and will of course do so again when I am satisfied a full investigation has been undertaken. I will also send out any money they may have missed from me If (hopefully when) this is the case.
We are all entitled to our own opinions / concerns / beliefs on here.
mightymammoth
Well-Known Member
That's a real shame, SPANA do some fantastic work out "there" as well maybe consider supporting them with a standing order instead, I do
stormalong
Active Member
The pictures taken in Egypt on this forum are from Edfu. My daughter is coming over again tonight, and I will gladly put on pictures taken on my recent holiday of The Brooke's outpost in Luxor, and pictures of the horses out there.
I know from when I was young I always wanted to support an animal charity abroad - I think many of us do. I always wanted to visit The Brooke, to see what they do, and I can post a couple of pictures of the one out in Luxor, but not of the horse.
I have been to Egypt several times, and have donated to all 3 which are in Luxor. I gave a donation to The Brooke whilst I was there a fortnight ago. I stumbled upon the other charity when I asked a caleche driver to take me to The Brooke in 2006. We dually arrived and upon walking round found a sign which said it was ACE.
Gladly post pictures of Luxor, Egypt, to give you a feel for the place, but it will be tonight.
I do love the country is is so diverse, and it is affordable to visit. We do often book the flights at the last minute to benefit from price cuts. You can book on Easyjet, but with them you have to book well in advance to get the lowest prices. The nearer to the time you want to travel, the more expensive the flight.
Hotels I book online through Travel Republic, or On the Beach. Booking holidays through travel agents, just far too expensive. Eating out in Luxor is very cheap, as long as you don't eat in the hotel restaurants. Typical evening meal would be £5 each, but you can eat for far less. The felafel sandwiches they sell at the side of the road are 20p, and delicious.
Never had an upset stomach yet.
So if you want to visit, it is do-able! You also benefit from seeing whichever charity in life you want to support and seeing it first hand.
I know from when I was young I always wanted to support an animal charity abroad - I think many of us do. I always wanted to visit The Brooke, to see what they do, and I can post a couple of pictures of the one out in Luxor, but not of the horse.
I have been to Egypt several times, and have donated to all 3 which are in Luxor. I gave a donation to The Brooke whilst I was there a fortnight ago. I stumbled upon the other charity when I asked a caleche driver to take me to The Brooke in 2006. We dually arrived and upon walking round found a sign which said it was ACE.
Gladly post pictures of Luxor, Egypt, to give you a feel for the place, but it will be tonight.
I do love the country is is so diverse, and it is affordable to visit. We do often book the flights at the last minute to benefit from price cuts. You can book on Easyjet, but with them you have to book well in advance to get the lowest prices. The nearer to the time you want to travel, the more expensive the flight.
Hotels I book online through Travel Republic, or On the Beach. Booking holidays through travel agents, just far too expensive. Eating out in Luxor is very cheap, as long as you don't eat in the hotel restaurants. Typical evening meal would be £5 each, but you can eat for far less. The felafel sandwiches they sell at the side of the road are 20p, and delicious.
Never had an upset stomach yet.
So if you want to visit, it is do-able! You also benefit from seeing whichever charity in life you want to support and seeing it first hand.
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Freddie19
Well-Known Member
I was the person who posted about emailing the Brooke in the first instance re the post on this forum. So...they acknowledged my email with 45 minutes, they came back to me with the next email, stating that this post would be read and investigated, the first thing next morning. I have just got home now to find their post on this forum.....what more do you expect them to do, fly out at great expense, to investigate now, I think not.....Brooke have worked for many many years in these countries, well before horse welfare became the done thing, they have saved and helped many poor horses from agonising deaths...and may I point out, that in the first instance these horses were in the majority british horses left out there after the war, some soldiers risked being discharged from the army for taking their horses out and shooting them, and then we have the horses who have been sold to these countries to show-jump or whatever and end up like this. Brooke have and are still doing a brilliant job....one bad apple does not I repeat does not ruin their work. Please please step back and let them investigate this post. If you want to get angry with welfare organisations, get angry with the government in this country, yes UK, who allow horses to be bred, to be born, to be starved to death, (and nobodys life depends on them as in Egypt). Get angry with this government who have just taken on yet another take on the Dangerous dogs act.....Aim your bile at them. Lets sort out our faults. You have a voice, you have a vote, use it...post on political forums, write or email your local mp, thats were it should be heading.
stormalong
Active Member
stormalong
Active Member
stormalong
Active Member
Herewith photographs of The Brooke in Luxor, and a photo of one of the caleche horses for your perusal.
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rhino
Well-Known Member
Trying to upload photos? Where have you got them stored? 
stormalong
Active Member
Sorry, last photo of caleche horse did not load.
rhino
Well-Known Member
stormalong
Active Member
Heck, I don't know how daughter posted them. Even she found it a bit difficult. Said ok if you had done it before, but it took her a little time. You can see the first two though? She has gone to bed now! I would have loved to have posted more, and we did try to load others, but it was just taking so long.
rhino
Well-Known Member
Can't see any of them, sorry
If you click on 'User CP' at the top of the page, then on 'Pictures and Albums' on the side bar, then on your album title to open the album. Once you are in, click on 'Edit Album' at the top and click on the option for public.
Once you have done that, click on the photo you want to put on the thread, then copy the BB code under it (the one which starts and ends [ IMG ]) and then paste it on a post on here. You can have lots of pictures on the same post too, don't need a new one for each pic
stormalong
Active Member
Thanks for your help Rhino, yes she had set it to private! I can see them when I look at forum, thought everyone else could too! I have set it to public now. Hope it works.
Got to go to bed, show in the morning!
Got to go to bed, show in the morning!
rhino
Well-Known Member
TheBrooke
New User
Message from the Chief Executive, Petra Ingram
I would like to begin by thanking those contributors who have shown support to the Brooke over the past weekend. It is a difficult time for any charity when someone makes a complaint on a public forum without seeking an explanation from the charity first.
Just to recap, last week a complaint was made on this forum, which was subsequently notified to us. It is very sad that this involved a working horse in Luxor which had been involved in a road traffic accident and died while at the Brooke's clinic. Unfortunately this type of accident is not uncommon in a busy city where horses work alongside cars and buses. In Cairo and Delhi they are banned from the town centre, but not in Luxor.
When this mare was admitted to the Luxor clinic, there were no clinical signs to justify euthanasia she had walked in on foot and showed no sign of fractures. An examination carried out by the vet showed lacerated wounds on her right front leg and right hind limb as a result of the accident. The vet in charge is extremely experienced and provided pain relief and stitched the wounds. Unfortunately the mare died shortly afterwards, we believe from internal injuries.
The Brooke has a clearly defined animal welfare policy and it is a condition of funding that all our overseas projects comply with these standards. We employ highly trained veterinary staff and regularly review and update clinical practice, implementing lessons learned in daily working. We do not have luxurious clinics or offices, equally we don't invest in X-ray machines as these are expensive and we believe the money can be better used helping more animals. We do whatever is necessary to reach 250,000 equine animals across the country out of an estimated total population of around 1.2 million, and these are some of the difficult decisions that have to be made.
In accordance with our euthanasia policy, we will not put a horse to sleep without the owners permission. As this forum has already highlighted, this is sometimes difficult to get, due to religious beliefs or when there is a hope the animal might recover, an animal vital to providing income to a poor family. Our priority is to relieve pain and to provide the most appropriate treatment according to the situation. We believe the vet concerned followed the most appropriate course of action.
The Brooke takes its responsibilities as the custodian of supporters money for the benefit of working equine animals overseas very seriously and we always investigate complaints. In this case, we only wish there had been more discussion with the vet at the time to ensure a better understanding of our approach. If you would like me to answer any individual questions, please email me, Petra Ingram, at info@thebrooke.org.
Last year, globally our work reached 1.1 million working horses, donkeys and mules in ten countries across Asia, Africa and Latin America. Our goal is to increase the number of working animals we help to 2 million a year by 2016. If we are to continue this vital role, which improves the lives of equine animals and also helps the people who depend on them, we need your continued support.
I would like to begin by thanking those contributors who have shown support to the Brooke over the past weekend. It is a difficult time for any charity when someone makes a complaint on a public forum without seeking an explanation from the charity first.
Just to recap, last week a complaint was made on this forum, which was subsequently notified to us. It is very sad that this involved a working horse in Luxor which had been involved in a road traffic accident and died while at the Brooke's clinic. Unfortunately this type of accident is not uncommon in a busy city where horses work alongside cars and buses. In Cairo and Delhi they are banned from the town centre, but not in Luxor.
When this mare was admitted to the Luxor clinic, there were no clinical signs to justify euthanasia she had walked in on foot and showed no sign of fractures. An examination carried out by the vet showed lacerated wounds on her right front leg and right hind limb as a result of the accident. The vet in charge is extremely experienced and provided pain relief and stitched the wounds. Unfortunately the mare died shortly afterwards, we believe from internal injuries.
The Brooke has a clearly defined animal welfare policy and it is a condition of funding that all our overseas projects comply with these standards. We employ highly trained veterinary staff and regularly review and update clinical practice, implementing lessons learned in daily working. We do not have luxurious clinics or offices, equally we don't invest in X-ray machines as these are expensive and we believe the money can be better used helping more animals. We do whatever is necessary to reach 250,000 equine animals across the country out of an estimated total population of around 1.2 million, and these are some of the difficult decisions that have to be made.
In accordance with our euthanasia policy, we will not put a horse to sleep without the owners permission. As this forum has already highlighted, this is sometimes difficult to get, due to religious beliefs or when there is a hope the animal might recover, an animal vital to providing income to a poor family. Our priority is to relieve pain and to provide the most appropriate treatment according to the situation. We believe the vet concerned followed the most appropriate course of action.
The Brooke takes its responsibilities as the custodian of supporters money for the benefit of working equine animals overseas very seriously and we always investigate complaints. In this case, we only wish there had been more discussion with the vet at the time to ensure a better understanding of our approach. If you would like me to answer any individual questions, please email me, Petra Ingram, at info@thebrooke.org.
Last year, globally our work reached 1.1 million working horses, donkeys and mules in ten countries across Asia, Africa and Latin America. Our goal is to increase the number of working animals we help to 2 million a year by 2016. If we are to continue this vital role, which improves the lives of equine animals and also helps the people who depend on them, we need your continued support.
mle22
Well-Known Member
You have my continued support - it was never in doubt.