The canter struggles continue...

FestiveFuzz

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Right, this is probably going to be a long one but I'm really beginning to get fed up with myself now and need some advice/kicks up the bum from the wise ones of HHO...

I seem to have a total mental block on canter, and somewhere along the way I have built it into the impossible in my head. Out hacking we are fine, when M throws one of his ridiculous spooks and bogs off up the school we are fine, our transitions from walk/trot into canter are 95% great with the occasional stride or two of rushing if I forget to half-halt before the transition, I've even managed to quit the tipping/throwing the reins at him when I ask for canter, but still I'm struggling in the actual canter.

For background, my horse before Pops and M was a ****** to school and would regularly buck/bronc into canter. He had every physio/vet check under the sun and it was ruled it was behavioural rather than anything untoward so I just had to grin and bear it. He was also lazy off the leg, which led to me spending many years gripping with my legs which led to me tipping forward and throwing the reins at him when I asked for canter so I could ensure I wasn't catapulted out of the saddle...as such I've spent the past 18 months undoing numerous bad habits which had become pretty ingrained over the years.

I've worked hard to improve my position in this time and am now following my trainers post-baby fitness routine to continue to strengthen my core. I've become a lot more aware of my position in this time too, which I think is adding to my frustration as whereas before I didn't know what I was doing wrong, I am now fully aware and yet seem to be unable to stop myself. My trainer is great, but we've kinda reached a point where it feels like a lot of this is in my head and she can only help me so much with this.

When I first got M we would regularly have accidental flying changes in the canter, and for some unknown reason I'd end up stressing about the accidental changes even though I could invariably get him to change back to the correct lead. I can now usually stop the changes from happening but I tend to doubt that I've stopped the change, and by the time I've checked myself we've invariably petered into trot. I know I need to pick him back up on the canter but knowing and doing seem to be two very different things! The fear of accidental changes has also meant I tend to be cautious of using my outside leg in canter, which means I regularly lose him out of the outside shoulder on a 20m circle. It's almost like I flit between over-riding the canter and being a total passenger, neither of which is helpful. We've been doing a lot of canter work on a 20m circle without stirrups as this means I can't draw up my legs/heels in the canter, and the circle means I have to ride rather than be a passenger but I'm finding it hard to stay centred on the circle and have a tendency to lean in and once this happens I find it hard to right myself again without breaking into trot.

I'm just so frustrated as I just can't seem to break this cycle and I know it's the only thing holding me back from getting out and competing now. I have twice weekly sessions with my trainer, and have asked to have a lesson on the lunge so I can work on my position without worrying about the rest but I just don't know what else to do and it's beginning to really get me down. It annoys me as I can canter lesser schooled horses without a problem, but when it comes to mine it seems like we're never going to get there.

I've ridden for over 20 years so it's not like I'm a total novice (although I sometimes feel like it!), but M's my first proper experience of an advanced dressage horse and whilst he's my absolute horse of a lifetime, he's not always as forgiving as I sometimes think I need.

Cookies for anyone who gets this far x
 
First thought - What else, besides your own horse, are you getting to ride? I get the feeling that you need to break the cycle by riding others regularly. I really like having 2 horses in work because whatever pickles I find myself getting into with one, I can work on with the other - every day :wink3: I think it would help you to ride other well trained horses as there will be others that don't have this slipping-a change in thing.

second thought - I still think you're at risk of overcomplicating a few things. e.g. if a horse of mine falls out though the outside shoulder, it's usually a fault of the outside contact so I would address that and move the shoulder in front of the hind legs rather than put my outside leg on. Addressing the cause rather than the effect... which would mean you don't need to move your legs and therefore that would reduce the fear of a change?

I'd also try and think differently about this problem, rather than thinking "don't change" you need to give yourself a positive instruction. Such as "canter forward around the circle and then down the long side" and keep giving yourself a positive instruction so you don't have time to start to think negatively and get into a fear-of-changes-spiral. The additional benefit is that by riding positively along a pre-defined floorplan, you're more likely to keep the 4 corners of the horse going in the right way to avoid a change ever creeping in ;)

These highly schooled horses really can be demoralising at times so I don't think you're alone by any means in feeling this way - the less well honed ones are def more forgiving of our little errors. I just think you need to find more ways to deal with the challenge positively :)
 
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another thought. Do you ever work on the changes deliberately? Maybe spending some sessions developing your feel and ability to ride tempis, for example, would also help you feel the difference between wanting and controlling the change, (plus it's fun!) and just riding the normal canter...
 
At the moment I'm only really riding M. I've had a couple of friends ask me to ride their horses as they want to see someone "dressagey" riding them, but outside of that I've been solely focused on my own. Although I'm sure my trainer would be happy to let me ride one of her more forgiving horses if I asked nicely. We've been toying with the idea of getting a second again recently, but for now I've very much got my hands full with M and don't really fancy going into winter with two so that's kinda a pipe dream (unless something that ticks all the boxes appears).

It totally wouldn't surprise me if I was overcomplicating things, as I do feel like I've gotten to the point where I'm so desperate to do everything "right" that I don't play like I used to. That's definitely a good point re: cause rather than effect, however I'm still at the point where I'm slow on the uptake and find I've lost the shoulder before I've realised I've not got the outside contact right if that makes sense? It's silly because I feel like I pretty much have him between my legs on an even contact in walk and trot but in canter it all seems to fall apart and I'm not sure what's causing the unravelling.

I did think maybe I should stop trying to ride the canter so to speak, and just actually canter like I would on anyone elses horse, so I'll give that a go this week and see if that makes a difference as I do think I'm so in my head about what I need to do that I'm forgetting to just ride what's in front of me.

We went through a stage of playing with the changes/counter canter, but then had to treat M for ulcers so our training went on the back burner a bit. My trainer has been riding him a few times a week to help get him using his back correctly post-treatment. She's worked wonders with him as he now feels the best he's ever felt, but on the flip side I'm a little worried of riding him wrong now, or undoing all her hard work as he does have a tendency of picking up bad habits when I haven't realised I've been doing something wrong.

I absolutely adore him, but do find myself feeling like I literally can't ride some days :(
 
shame you're so far away, Kira isn't easy but canter is her best pace and she's a good one to play with because she isn't sensitive enough to be so unforgiving but she does enjoy slipping a change in ;) you'd have been welcome to have a sit on her (rollerskates optional).
I really feel for you, I think you've got 2 good ideas there - 1. welly him round like a green horse and see what happens, and 2. try and get riding something else to see if you can iron out the mental wrinkles a bit.

It sounds like you've got quite a bit of baggage with this horse - a fabulous opportunity but iirc he was your trainer's horse before? so no wonder you are feeling like you've got to get it right, but that's really not helping. He's either your horse to play on - and break bits now and then, we all do it! or he's her horse that you have permission to ride? I think you need to shift him into the former category in your head and try not to fear getting stuff wrong, it's the best way to learn :)

^seriously! I broke Kira's clean changes by trying too hard last year, but in learning how to fix them it made me understand the timing of the aid so much better that I reckon I can teach salty much more easily now ;)

One other thought would be can you get a fresh set of eyes on you both? I know you obviously have a close relationship with your trainer but sometimes a different perspective can work wonders.
 
Aww thanks MP, it's a shame you're so far away else I'd have leapt at the chance!

I've only got a couple more weeks of work before the xmas break, so my plan is to have a weeks worth of lessons over the hols and book a couple of mechanical horse lessons so I can really break down where I'm going wrong with the added bonus of not having to worry about messing the horse up (or being the first rider in existence to mess up a mechanical horse!) :D

Horse was imported by my trainer as a youngster and is half-brother to one of hers so I do feel a sense of responsibility around not messing him up/not showing my trainer up (even though she insists this isn't even a thing). I'm very lucky as both trainer and owner have been super supportive of us, but I still feel terrible that I've been given this amazing opportunity and after nearly a year am still not out competing him. Trainer is great though and totally treats him as if he's my own so I think any hang ups around that are purely my own. I just think trainer is now getting a bit frustrated as I seem to be mastering the hard bits and struggling with things that should be easy and I get the sense that she feels I'm holding myself back hence her frustration.

In terms of a fresh pair of eyes, I'd worry that it'd be a case of too many cooks in the kitchen, plus my trainer gets me in a way others previously haven't so I'm not sure how much I'd get out of it.
 
you could always just enter a couple of tests and see if the change of scenery/show environment did enough to distract you from your worries to let autopilot take over....? Couple of nice elementaries for instance ;) I'm a bit worried that you think your trainer is frustrated with you...
 
Perfect sense from MP - as usual!
It sounds like you're getting a bit bogged down and emotional about this particular horse - yes, he's special and talented, but he's essentially just a horse, who was born being able to canter. It probably would really help to sit on something else, especially one that also has the frilly bits installed. You're only in the next county from me, and you'd be very welcome to come and have a play on Alf. He does everything by the book, so he's quite useful for picking up balance/aid delivery issues
 
Haha I don't think I'm brave enough for that! I think the trouble is I'm a total perfectionist, so for the most part I've really enjoyed stripping everything back to basics and relearning it, but that does mean I have a huge tendency to overthink everything and get myself in a tizz. Trainer is also a perfectionist (it's one of the many reasons we get on so well) so there's a lot of emphasis of getting the foundations in place before moving on which I love, but it does give me ample opportunity to overthink.

I'm sure if you asked her she wouldn't say she's frustrated at me, in fact just the other day she was saying how pleased she is with my trot work and how far we've come. But I can be super inconsistent in my canter work and I can only imagine it's blooming difficult to teach someone who does something right one day and the next day seems to have forgotten everything.
 
Perfect sense from MP - as usual!
It sounds like you're getting a bit bogged down and emotional about this particular horse - yes, he's special and talented, but he's essentially just a horse, who was born being able to canter. It probably would really help to sit on something else, especially one that also has the frilly bits installed. You're only in the next county from me, and you'd be very welcome to come and have a play on Alf. He does everything by the book, so he's quite useful for picking up balance/aid delivery issues

Thanks Aus, I may well take you up on that offer if you really don't mind. I do think you're right to a certain extent. I just feel so lucky that I've been given the opportunity with M and do kinda worry about messing him up even though I know deep down that's silly. I'm also finding the more aware of my body I become the more I have to think about. Like I now know I'm collapsing through my ribs on the left side at the moment, but when I try to fix it I just end up feeling wonky and then I have to fight myself not to end up gripping with my thighs. I know it'll come in time, as everything else has, but I'm just frustrated that something that once was easy has now become a massive issue in my mind.
 
Perfect sense from MP - as usual!
It sounds like you're getting a bit bogged down and emotional about this particular horse - yes, he's special and talented, but he's essentially just a horse, who was born being able to canter. It probably would really help to sit on something else, especially one that also has the frilly bits installed. You're only in the next county from me, and you'd be very welcome to come and have a play on Alf. He does everything by the book, so he's quite useful for picking up balance/aid delivery issues

^^ this would be an excellent opportunity :)

re the perfectionist thing. I get that, I am quite keen on details and getting things properly right, but I find having a trainer that dares me to try other stuff is complementary to my natural tendency to be hyper critical and tough on myself. Previously I trained with a judge who was - understandably - also a nit picker and while I absolutely trusted her eye and her ability, it made me doubt myself more and more to the point where I couldn't ride from one end of the school to the other. :o

You could say, I feel your pain.

I've learnt that the perfectionist bit is good for when you are training at home because you won't let a little error slip... but somewhere along the line you need to find a way to get a confidence boost., sense of achievement, a challenge conquered.. Whether that's from a more gung-ho trainer, or from daring yourself to try a test , or whatever...give it some thought, we don't always progress the fastest by training with the most like-minded people ;)
 
MP as always you make perfect sense, and I do love the fact you understand where I'm coming from. Makes me feel like I'm not totally nuts when I'm beating myself up :) I guess I fear I am teetering on the edge of falling into the trap of not being able to ride one end of the school to the other, although I am trying to counter this by being a bit more relaxed with my schooling sessions.

We were at the CH demo at YHL at the weekend, and for the first time in a while I felt super inspired. So in our next session I went in with a less rigid plan of just having a play and seeing what happened. We had an absolute blast, and even though it wasn't all perfect and sparkly it really did help with my sense of feel. I'm going to try and do more of that in the coming weeks and just push myself well and truly out of my comfort zone in the canter...and just see what happens.
 
good plan, and take up Aus on her offer if you can ;) just playing is often a great way to develop stuff you never knew was there :) and with no pressure on...as you can't expect perfection in play!
 
Like I now know I'm collapsing through my ribs on the left side at the moment, but when I try to fix it I just end up feeling wonky and then I have to fight myself not to end up gripping with my thighs.

There's been a lot of sense talked on this thread, and I suspect that there's not a lot I can teach you, but this bit caught my eye, as it's something I do on the same side as you, and I went to a clinic once who told me to look over my right shoulder and then look back and hey presto, it was 100 per cent better (I have scoliosis so never going to be fixed) - I still use it as a correction to this day. A good clinic can be so useful in just using a different phrase or technique that makes you think "Yes, that's what my trainer was talking about all this time!" All good trainers will appreciate that this is the case. Good luck overcoming your anxiety about it, but you sound like a really good rider, so I'm sure you'll get there.
 
I've not read all the replies and am far from an expert in cantering... but I have just been reading a bit of book about sports psychology. Happened to be about over thinking (something which I am very very familiar with, should see me try to ride a shoulder in when I actually think about it - look like a contortionist :lol:). Anyway...

Try singing or reciting poetry while you are cantering. Or do some sums in your head. Get your conscious mind really concentrating on something else and let you subconcious handle the cantering.

Worth a try I reckon... I'm going to try it next time I'm tying myself in knots and not letting myself just ride.

Also see about getting a lesson on a simulator?
 
Not much to add but wanted to let you know you are not alone. My girl is off games for a while so my lovely trainer has lent me one of hers and it is daunting. L is sharp and I have realised how much I have adapted my riding to her and riding W has highlighted how little leg I use. Probably doesn't help that he is 2hh bigger and longer! The fact he is hers definitely ads pressure, but she is happy he is getting some attention and he doesn't care if I get it wrong. I am trying to look at it as an opportunity to improve my riding and enjoy it.
 
Thanks folks, I know I can always count on you guys to help pick me back up and give me great advice.

Don't mind at all! He's old and wise enough to be perfectly happy with new people borrowing him for a play!

Aus thanks so much, I'll drop you a PM in a bit.

There's been a lot of sense talked on this thread, and I suspect that there's not a lot I can teach you, but this bit caught my eye, as it's something I do on the same side as you, and I went to a clinic once who told me to look over my right shoulder and then look back and hey presto, it was 100 per cent better (I have scoliosis so never going to be fixed) - I still use it as a correction to this day. A good clinic can be so useful in just using a different phrase or technique that makes you think "Yes, that's what my trainer was talking about all this time!" All good trainers will appreciate that this is the case. Good luck overcoming your anxiety about it, but you sound like a really good rider, so I'm sure you'll get there.

JGC this is such a great shout, and definitely something I'll be trying in my next schooling session as I reckon it'll be just the fix I need.

I've not read all the replies and am far from an expert in cantering... but I have just been reading a bit of book about sports psychology. Happened to be about over thinking (something which I am very very familiar with, should see me try to ride a shoulder in when I actually think about it - look like a contortionist :lol:). Anyway...

Try singing or reciting poetry while you are cantering. Or do some sums in your head. Get your conscious mind really concentrating on something else and let you subconcious handle the cantering.

Worth a try I reckon... I'm going to try it next time I'm tying myself in knots and not letting myself just ride.

Also see about getting a lesson on a simulator?

Am already in the process of sorting a couple of mechanical horse lessons out as I think that'll really help highlight exactly what I'm doing wrong. Will also give the singing/poetry a try (when no one else is about!)

Not much to add but wanted to let you know you are not alone. My girl is off games for a while so my lovely trainer has lent me one of hers and it is daunting. L is sharp and I have realised how much I have adapted my riding to her and riding W has highlighted how little leg I use. Probably doesn't help that he is 2hh bigger and longer! The fact he is hers definitely ads pressure, but she is happy he is getting some attention and he doesn't care if I get it wrong. I am trying to look at it as an opportunity to improve my riding and enjoy it.

Aww I'm glad it's not just me. The old adage of "you don't know what you don't know" is just so apt! M's owner mention in passing to my trainer that she'd be happy to sell him to me (haven't broached that one yet as I'm not sure I can afford him just yet), so I can't be doing too much wrong but knowing it's someone else's horse at the end of the day does add pressure, especially when they're a clever one!
 
And a quick update...

So last night I threw caution to the wind and asked if we could have a ridden lunge lesson rather than our usual schooling session so I could focus purely on me. I half expected my trainer to say I was nuts as M has been particularly spooky since the nights have drawn in and is always somewhat "spirited" on the lunge (not to mention we weren't actually sure he had much experience of having someone on his back when lunged), instead she said yes and if he became spooky we'd just switch to a normal lesson. So we spent the lesson mostly without stirrups working on my position and using my seat to influence him in the canter. It was blooming painful at times but there were fireworks too....literally as the local town were switching on their Christmas lights! He surprisingly took it all in his stride and was an absolute pleasure to ride, and cooling down off the lunge I could already see a difference in how he was responding to me so all in all it was super helpful in helping me piece it all together.

My trainer was also super lovely and said it was such a pleasure to watch the improvements we're making and that she's sure we'll have the canter fully established by Christmas so I'm feeling a lot more confident in our progress too.
 
fab FF, well done :)

Thanks MP, and thanks so much for all the advice you've given me in the last year. Naively, I don't think I realised just how hard riding an advanced schoolmaster could be (and how demoralising the learning curve is at times!) when I took him on all those months ago so it's great to know I'm not alone in these trials and that we'll get there in the end :)
 
Am already in the process of sorting a couple of mechanical horse lessons out as I think that'll really help highlight exactly what I'm doing wrong

Just a word of warning about the mechanical lessons as I notice you are in Surrey. I resumed riding after a long break and wanted to have private lunge lessons from a good dressage orientated instructor to pull me to pieces and work hard with me to get back my skills. I used to do BHS novice eventing many many years ago and am a BHSAI so I would have classed myself as an experienced novice! I was told I had to have a lesson on the mechanical horse to be assesed which I was more than happy with as I was well aware that my skills would be shot to pieces, I then wanted to pay the premium to have lessons with the resident intermediate instructor. Well according to the instructor I was practically perfect virtually no correction at all, everything was good, well done etc., etc., a complete waste of my time and money and I was under no illusion I had plenty to learn. And I am my own worst critic when I was I did find somewhere good to learn I got my husband to video me riding and I could have cried.
So please pm me if you want to know where I went as I obviously won't put it on the forum.
 
Thanks Wren, I'll PM you as I have a feeling you might be referring to the same place I was planning to go. Sorry to hear you had a bit of a nightmare though.

So today I dragged my long suffering OH down to take some pics whilst I schooled. We managed some nice canter work just by playing around so I think this might be the way to go moving forward.

UMqZC7E.JPG


I'm under no illusion that there's still a bunch we need to work on where canter is concerned, but at least I'm feeling a bit more positive now :)
 
The one thing I can offer you, (because I have exactly the same problems!) Is if you're struggling to ride a circle, ride diamonds instead... trust me that will engage your outside leg ;)
 
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