The case of the imaginary fly..... or is it?

[Crazydancer]

Background - 23yr old gelding, had him since he was a yearling. Hacks out with no problems, not spooky or nappy. Usually forward-going but utterly safe, you can hack on the buckle-end at walk, but picks up the pace very easily once reins are shortened! We've had some trouble in the last 12 months where he's been reluctant to stride out, and having had saddle repeatedly checked, by 3 different saddlers (told it was fine) and had vet do cushings test (clear) we finally had another saddler say the others had all been wrong and re-fitted an old saddle. Ongoing physio during all of this. I finally feel we've turned a corner and in the last month he's been a LOT better. Striding out at walk, and wanting to pick up a trot again. This may be unrelated, but wanted to give the whole picture.

Anyway, in the last 2 weeks he's started to have an absolute melt-down when half-way round a hack, and acts like he has a really irritating fly. Starts with furious tail-swishing, swing head around, the he starts bouncing his back end and doing mini-bucks, and feels coiled-up underneath the saddle. He's such a genuine little guy, at this point I've been hopping off and checking his back-end for flies, but found nothing. (At the weekend I was furtling round his sheath and looked up to see a man and 2 dogs watching me.... how embarrassing!!)

Sometimes I've lead him and he's settled back down and I've re-mounted, sometimes he hasn't. It doesn't happen at the same place, or at the same time on a hack, and we always use a circular route so I'm sure its not an extreme case of napping. But when it does it's an extreme reaction......

So any thoughts on what it could be? We are not that far from the New Forest and I did wonder about crab flies, but like I said I couldn't feel anything on him - any tips on how to find a crab fly? I know you have to pop them (yuk) but need to know where to look. I did check under his tail, between his back legs, sheath etc.

Or any other suggestions? Has anyone else's horse every behave like this? Could it be diet related (although nothing there has changed, other than we've started this years hay)
Stumped!! Any ideas you lovely HHO lot?

 

[Illusion100]

Hmmm, odd one!

Are there any underground electric cables/pylons nearby? Anything that might be giving off a strange smell/or a close by abattoir?

 

[Crazydancer]

It must be a odd one, 150 views and only 1 reply!!

Nope nothing like that, we have limited hacking routes, out and back are the same road, been doing them for over a year. Smells - nothing I can pinpoint, but he's never reacted before, this is a horse that even goes 'ooooo pigs, aren't they cute' (well, obviously he doesn't say that, but his demeanour is like that!).

 

[Illusion100]

Yeah, this one defo requires a thinking cap!

It's probably something really obvious that some smartypants will point out soon!

What's his mood like when he has one of these episodes? Nervous/angry/frustrated/excited?

Have you changed your washing detergent recently that his numnah was washed in? Same with the girth, been washed recently? Any new tack cleaning products? Any tack change? Any new high vis gear/boots etc?

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Sheep Ked?
They can give exactly those symptoms. Do check or perhaps get vet and if necessary a Dectomax injection gets rid of them v quickly

 

[flirtygerty]

Sounds as if he is uncomfortable, a few things come to mind and apologies if I'm teaching a granny to suck eggs, bearing in mind, problems occur into the ride, could the girth be nipping, do you pull his legs forward before mounting, is his saddle moving slightly and pulling on his hair, is he having the equivilent of a menopausal episode, getting too hot and itchy, the thing that jumped out at me was, does he have KS, hope you get to the bottom of his problem

 

[Crazydancer]

OOOOO some fab ideas! Thanks.
Sheep ked - just looked it up, knew nothing about them. We have a lot of deer..... he did have some bite-like lesions on his rump, with yellow stick wax-like substance. A bit like a cross between ear-wax and thick honey..... his winter coat has come on so it's difficult finding things, but will give the vet a call. Thanks TFF.
Illusion, I have washed the numnah and will give it another wash to be safe in something gentle, thanks for that one. No new tack, we're very low-touch on that front! No boots, high-viz on me and his fly bonnet which he's had a good while.
Flirtygerty, thanks, that was my concern that this was a discomfort reaction. I check the girth, everything looks smooth under the numnah so think that all looks ok. Heck I really hope it's not KS.....

 

[Illusion100]

Good luck Detective Crazydancer!

Hope you get to the bottom of it and please update us when you have.

 

[Barnacle]

Do you have an outdoor school or field you can work in? Might sound silly but it might be interesting to lunge or longline him at walk and trot for about as long as you would on a hack.,. It'll eliminate a bunch of possibilities. Do it without tack.

 

[soulfull]

Good suggestions already probably neither of these but just in case

Maggots in his sheath Or ulcers that get irritated by exercise and leg on his side

 

[Suby2]

My friends mare had a skin condition which was not obvious but when she warmed up she became unrideable as she got so itchy she didn't know what to do with herself and flung herself around. Medication from the vet fixed it.

 

[Crazydancer]

Thanks again Barnacle, Soulfull and Suby2. More good suggestions. I'd rule ulcers out, this horse has the most relaxed chilled lifestyle, and looks the picture of health. No issues with saddling or girthing. Plus I don't use my legs much, our aid to pick up the pace is me shortening the reins! Very lazy and bad habit, but the lad is 23 and we know each other too well.
I'm now thinking either sheep ked, or skin condition - it occurred to me that the last farrier visit, and physio came straight after, was 2 weeks ago, and it was a gorgeous day. Instead of standing sleepy in the sun, he was jumping and tail swishing and generally not settled, but nowhere near as bad as I've seen when ridden, but I'd say it was not usual. Going to speak to the vet about the possibilities.
Thanks everyone, at least I have some ideas to discuss with her - will report back!!

 

[Shady]

after reading your opening post and reply the link does seem to be warmth and this would make sense if it is skin related, if i think about it in human terms, when i get a fly/ mozzie bite it initially itches then settles down but when i go to bed and get hot it flares up again and seems twice as bad , do hope you find the reason, keep us posted, i am very interested to know what it is now! x

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

would it be worth fully clipping him so you can really see whats going on at skin level? it will keep him cooler too so any itchy type grumpiness is helped?

 

[Annagain]

Some good suggestions, but one more. Unlikely from what you've said but although it seems the saddle issue is sorted, could it be related to that? Either the previous ill-fitting saddles have caused a problem or the current saddle isn't quite as good a fit as you think? Maybe it's tolerable to begin with but builds up?

Could you try long reining / walking in hand to see if it happens then and if not, maybe then try riding bareback if he's safe to do that?

 

[Clodagh]

There is a condition where they don't sweat, I can't remember what it is called. That could cause overheating?

 

[Crazydancer]

Well after a slow start we seem to be getting some great ideas! Thanks again!
Sweating - he isn't a horse that usually sweats. He CAN sweat, but usually only when VERY warm, or if he gets a proper tizz on about something - and that doesn't happen often at all, once a year would be a lot. I've only trace-clipped him twice in his life, as he lives out and even in winter I can ride without him getting sweaty. I'd be reluctant to clip for that reason, but if that is gong to help then of course it would be worth a try.
Saddle - that is what occurred to me, and was a bit of a worry. I am aiming to get him walked in-hand this evening, to see how he is, as it's a nice day here. Otherwise, he seems really comfortable with the saddle fit, I had it checked again by yet another saddler recently, who agreed with the one who re-fitted the old saddle. He now has a shimmed prolite pad as well. When he walks out he is relaxed, head low, long easy strides with good over-tracking. The symptom of the ill-fitting saddle was short shuffly strides that didn't go anyway at any speed. Physio two weeks ago found nothing worrying, so I'm pretty sure (but would never rule out 100%) it's not the saddle.
I've left a message for my vet to give me a call to have a chat. Will keep you all updated!

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I'd be suspecting something bowel orientated. Mine has behaved like this when he has had mild colic or when he went through a period of what I've called poo cramps he gets swishy tailed feels like he will take off and then eventually has a poo, then he shoots off once gone then calms down again. Sometimes mine holds on as he doesn't like pooing on concrete and I always pop him in his stable before riding as he nearly always saves a wee and a poo for his stable when he comes in from the field. He will not wee when being ridden no matter how long. Only once in 10 years. I always make sure he has a tummy/ gut supplement which seems to have helped him and don't take him out unless he has had some hay in the morning, more to protect from ulcers than anything. He is well-covered and shiny so not an obvious candidate.

Has his bowel movements/ droppings changed in any way? Is he drinking enough? Is he weeing normally and easily?

As an aside mine has only been clipped twice in 10 years as he rarely sweats either

 

[Crazydancer]

Thanks - it's difficult to monitor as he's out 24/7, and we rotate and harrow rather than poo-pick, so the only thing I can monitor is how much he's drinking as we have containers that have to be re-filled. That seems to be much the same - less needed when we had rain last week, but otherwise unchanged. Actual droppings all look normal. He's currently in a single paddock so I know what he's been eating, a few slices of hay a night, a big scoop of AlphaA and half a measure of D&H Everyday mins and vits. Fence-line is moved every few days so he has a strip of fresh grass. Haven't actually seen him wee in a while, will go hang around the field a bit at the weekend. (He doesn't usually wee if we're hacking)
I'll monitor any droppings out hacking and his behaviour before and after.

 

[saffytessa]

I had very similar with my mare last weekend. Started out very forward as we left the yard and by 15mins in she was tail swishing withers twitching and head snaking all over the place. Tried to settle her down but she was having none of it. Then started with her bunny hopping rears (front feet less than a foot off the floor). Got off and she settled a bit in hand. Took her saddle off as we passed my house on the way back to the stables and got on bareback. She was ok for a short while then it started again. Its like she has trapped a nerve or something, definitely no flys causing bother. I'm having a Bowen therapist look at her then will reassess the situation. Sorry not much help!

 

[KrujaaLass]

Probably not this but my mare is quite sensitive. One day she started he same behaviour as yours but also tried to roll with me riding her. We found that her chestnut on her back leg had split and was really aggravating her as it was flapping about. Hope you found out what the problem is

 

[charlie76]

Deer tick/ crab fly. They are tiny and run when the horse gets hot hence they kick off half way through work. They used to make our rda horses turn into crazed beasts half way through a lesson! Not idea!! You can by tick spray from the tack shop which kills them . they are really hard to spot on a winter coat.

 

[charlie76]

http://equineink.com/2010/11/13/just-because-my-horse-is-brown-doesnt-mean-hes-a-deer/ pic of said tick that causes the most sedate horse to go nuts!

 

[Crazydancer]

UPDATE!!

Well I took him out for a walk in-hand on Friday evening, and rode this morning. Friday he was fine, had a little moment on the way back when he bumped me with his shoulder, but that was just a 'scratch me here, it's itchy!' thing, and I scratched the side of his neck and shoulder and he loved it.
This morning we rode round our circular ride, and no issue whatsoever. He seems fine.
So I think I have to put it down to flies/possible tick, and see how we go!

Thanks again for everyone who replied.

 

[Shady]

very pleased to hear this, i kept thinking about it! hope he continues to be ok, i v'e had the worst year ever for flies here and couldn't ride at all for the whole of August, my normally sweet horse turned into a loon so it's clear there is a limit to what they can deal with, good luck to you. xxx

 

[Nakipa]

If you think it is Crab Flies then get some baby oil or vaseline and plaster the area under the tail and around the sheath and all areas in between. The crab flies have nowhere to land and will go away. If you see one they are very hard to catch. The best way is with a wet hand as they can't scuttle around if they are wet.

My horses have them all the time (we live in France). I find the best way to catch them is to be ready with the wet hand and to lift the tail and grab them before they can scuttle or fly away. I can usually catch 3 or 4 like this. However oil or vaseline keeps them away for longer.

 

[Crazydancer]

Ah thanks Shady, yup they are a pain.

Just to embarrass me further, while we were out for our walk on Friday, we stepped onto the verge to let a car go past, I smiled and waved thanks..... at the guy who saw me handling my horses private parts last weekend..... *blush*

 

[Crazydancer]

Thanks Nakipa, that's really useful - I will keep that in mind and give it a try if it happens again. My money is on crab flies. They aren't everywhere, but definitely in the New Forest, so not that far away.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

My mare came back from schooling today and started being itchy. Sole crab fly!

They are very good at hiding barsteward things. She lives in the forest so used to them normally.

 

[biggingerpony]

Midges?