The cost of clinics.

I

Isabeau

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Arthur Kottas is giving a clinic in southern New Jersey the first week of August. It is $300/lesson (190 GBP or 265 Euro)

Would the rate be the same in the UK? Do other people pay these sorts of rates, or is it only Americans?

I don't ride well enough to get $300 worth of riding instruction out of anyone! :)
 
Ouch! :o

As a musician, I can understand why freelance gigs need to pay decently. An hour's performance represents many hours of preparation, and the rent needs to be paid! Similarly, someone traveling and giving clinics needs to make enough to cover expenses and then provide an income. However, to pay $300 for a lesson, I would have to think that that lesson would bring me more benefit than 6 lessons from my regular instructor.

I've paid a similar amount for a multi-day clinic, or half that for several sessions on one day (and auditing the rest), but $300 for just one lesson seems absurdly stiff.
 
spookypony said:
However, to pay $300 for a lesson, I would have to think that that lesson would bring me more benefit than 6 lessons from my regular instructor.
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I agree.

Re:similar cases in the UK - Phillipe Karl (School of Légèreté) clinics seem to be similar money but he only seems to attract quite a niche following. Whether this is the price or his training scale I don't know, though I get the impression his clinics have mostly riders who have already lessoned with him in the past.

Out of interest, how much would you (OP) expect to pay for shared XC clinic (5 riders inc yourself) with a 4* rider who has won a few international events?
 
hells bells :eek3:

I am happy to pay what I consider to be megabucks occasionally for mega trainers (assuming you are getting their full attention ;) ), but even for me that would break the bank.
 
DirectorFury, I see that Lucinda Green is going to be in the USA in October 2015. Cost is $450 for two days. Each day a 2 hour lesson in a group of 5-6 riders. That would still be out of my budget. I audited a clinic in NJ a few years ago, and I think $450 is a bit much for what was offered. She's great, bit it was still just a lot of very basic stuff. But the riders were also pretty basic level.


http://www.themarylandhorsetrials.com/shows/clinics/468-lucinda-green-clinic
 
Isabeau said:
DirectorFury, I see that Lucinda Green is going to be in the USA in October 2015. Cost is $450 for two days. Each day a 2 hour lesson in a group of 5-6 riders. That would still be out of my budget. I audited a clinic in NJ a few years ago, and I think $450 is a bit much for what was offered. She's great, bit it was still just a lot of very basic stuff. But the riders were also pretty basic level.
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$450? So, $225 for a 2 hour lesson, shared with 5 others?! Heck, I don't think I could ever afford to be a horse owner in the USA. I paid £65 for a 2 hour XC lesson in a group of 5 with Mary King last summer. I wonder if clinicians increase their prices for the American market as they think they can get away with it more easily?
 
Anyone based in the UK though, travelling over to the States, has to factor in the cost of the flight at least even if their accommodation is free, maybe this is part of the higher price rate? I'm not saying these prices are fair, but if they are UK based, they only have to factor in car/ train travel. I'm just trying to fathom why the prices are so much higher! I would never pay these rates because I couldn't afford to!
 
I'm not sure how these things are organised but presumably an agent in the USA organises it and they will want a cut? Also are there venue costs? Additional Insurance costs, Travel costs etc. Also I suspect there might be additional local taxes to pay?

My sister lives in Virginia and I think a lot of stuff she goes to seems expensive especially when it is an International trainer. I actually went to a Lucinda Green clinic about 8 years ago in Virginia where my brother-in-law was taking part on a youngster. I thought LG was good and made some very astute observations about the combinations before her but I don't think she gave anything more than a good local trainer could have given. You are paying in part for the name.

However $450 works out at about £70 an hour per person. I don't think that is extortionate given the situation even in a group. I have paid £50 for 45mins for training with a List 1 BD judge. If I had to hire a venue that would add another £20 plus she has no real travel costs as she only lives about 15 minutes away.
 
From personal experience, having lived in the States for 13 years during the 90's-early 00's, people can and will spend eye-watering amounts of money on certain horse-related activities.

The scariest amounts are on the "hunter jumper" circuit, especially on the East Coast.

Not that I'm saying the clinic OP is referring to is good value - but it's not prohibitive judging by what I've encountered. Many over there might even consider it pocket change! A different world.

Please note - I certainly wasn't one with megabucks, but I did it on a very frayed shoestring!!
 
By the time you factor in an extra 2 days for the trainer for the flights which will be around 6-9 hours and their flight costs plus travel on to wherever the clinic is being held and divide it out between the peope riding it will bump up the price a fair bit. you also have to look at the dollar rate right now as that brings the sterling equivilent down a lot. in the USA a lot of the people who go to the dressage clinics will have a lot more available money for training and others will be at a higher standard than most people on here so will be looking at getting more refined training and at current exchange rates will probably get their moneys worth out of it. for example if I were doing prelim or novice on my normal nice horse the higher level trainer would possibly not give me much more knowlege than local more normal trainers whereas if I was riding at PSG or GP on a more althletic horse then I would probably find the higher level trainer would help refine movements a lot more and possibly manage more in one or two sessions than I normally would in five or six. its all relative and if people are trying to improve and want to use a more expensive trainer to do so or widen their bag of ideas then good luck to them.
 
I can see how prices can be high if you account for flights/accommodation/facility hire but I could never justify spending that kind of price on a clinic.

In the UK you can get top quality instruction for £60-90 a private session, and plenty of very respectable training in the £40-60 bracket
 
I've been on the organizing end for American based clinicians who charge $2000 per day. At the same time (10 years ago) I worked with a UK-based clinician who was charging $1500 per day, plus a portion of total travel expenses, about another $100 per day.

Many of the people who are missing out on good instruction, because they can't afford to pay $300 for an hour, are the working professional horsemen. Sure, there are very wealthy people in this area of New Jersey who wouldn't blink at the costs no matter what. But most Professional riding instructors and riders are making much less than their clients.

I know that they don't always fill the $300 per hour slots. (Via calls at the 11th hour looking for ridrs to fill the slots.)
 
mytwofriends said:
The scariest amounts are on the "hunter jumper" circuit, especially on the East Coast.
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The first time I looked at prices of Hunters Jumpers in the US a couple of years ago I nearly passed out!

It makes you wonder if there's a "Look at how much I can spend on one horse" element to it.

Some of these horses up for $150k+ are doing 3ft circuits, if that. We've got fat & fluffy M&Ms over here doing that for £700.
 
Isabeau said:
Arthur Kottas is giving a clinic in southern New Jersey the first week of August. It is $300/lesson (190 GBP or 265 Euro)

Would the rate be the same in the UK? Do other people pay these sorts of rates, or is it only Americans?

I don't ride well enough to get $300 worth of riding instruction out of anyone! :)
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A top trainer, no matter what level you currently ride at, can give you a lot of input. The problem is that some of it will go right over your head. When you are riding at a higher level then the coaching you need does cost considerably more. There are less people who have the ability to train at that level therefore they can charge high prices. If you are competing dressage at Prelim, Novice & Elementary then in England you will get a really good coach for a third of the price mentioned. Obviously though a coach who has had to travel to the USA has had air fares, hotel bills & various expenses to cover. In reality comparing prices in the UK for a resident trainer against a visiting trainer to the USA is like trying to compare an apple with an orange.......can't really be done. :)
 
Toby you need to read some of my other posts in this thread. Like I said I've known native clinicians to charge more than people visiting from outside of the country.

SpringArising, what those six figure horses are providing is extremely reliable trips around the Hunter course, and gaits that will pin in the flat classes. The more money you can spend, the less competent you can be, and still win classes. A horse that will take the least skilled, chicken rider around a course, and still pin well, is worth a small fortune.
 
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