The dealer that cannot be named

She was advertising the type of horse that many people want, not only first time owners but older experienced riders whose nerve is not what it was . Even now reading those adverts I saw a few that , on paper, would have suited me( older person not as brave as when young) she writes a good ad and if you thought the horse was as described , the two week trial was the icing on the cake and I wouldn’t have been expecting to return the horse, however I wouldn’t pay the full amount of money, maybe a deposit …
 
Buying horses is an utter minefield. People lie. All the time. If you’ve spent 12 months search to be lied to over and over, an offering like Lynn’s seems to provide protection. I mean, it’s a business, why would someone risk their business by being dishonest. Combined with the good reviews and fantastic sounding horses, it’s a win win. You cannot judge people “buying” through her based on what we now know. The blame sits firmly with Lynn
 
Apizz2019 said:
What I'm trying to say, in a roundabout way, is that none of us know how, and what, someone is feeling in any given moment. We don't always react, or behave, how others think we should or even how we imagine we would in a situation. It's very easy to sit on the sidelines and judge but until you're in a situation, you can't judge others for what you perceive as good or bad decisions.

Scammers, con artists, whatever we like to call them, are highly accomplished and sophisticated. It does not matter if it's parting with money for investment, a product, an animal or anything else. They know their game well and can fool even the most intelligent, experienced, and aware, individuals.

I think the aggravating factor here is that this was the sale of sentient beings where there is, in my opinion, a higher level of emotional investment than there would otherwise be.
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I agree with this. To add to it: remember all the stories we hear about people who are vulnerable, neurodivergent, lonely, elderly etc falling for scams (and some that are none of these things). Many people have lost even more substantial amounts than to this dealer: hundreds of 000s, or life savings on romance fraud, investment fraud and so on. The context here is that however incredible it seems to others or with hindsight, this stuff happens and is even worse than the c. 5-15k price range we are talking about.

This situation isn't a matter of people being bonkers or naive, it's a wider problem that trust is misplaced and that a good scammer can speak to a need within a person. The blame here is not on the victims, who were unwittingly part of a scheme that was unfair to the horses involved. No one would take a horse on trial for the fun of it, but with the honest belief that the horse was likely to be right for them, with the safety net of a return policy. Perhaps the attractiveness of this has been increased by the other 'dodgy' dealers who have sold unsuitable horses that couldn't be returned - her buyers were trying to safeguard themselves from this other known issue.
 
Late 2021 I was helping a close friend with a healthy budget look for a new horse. She was desperate to buy, saw the adverts and called to enquire about a couple of her unicorns to be told that she couldn't go and try but could take one on trial. My friend is generally quite naive and she's an anxious person whereas I'm a cynic and very cautious. She was tempted by the trial offer as it removed the stage of having to go and ride a strange horse in a strange arena in front of someone she didn't know. I knew the trial arrangement would never work for her due to her anxieties and being such a nervous rider and to be honest I didn't want to have to support her through a potential disaster so I steered her away. We were lucky to find a real life unicorn by word of mouth a few weeks later.

Buying horses is a minefield and buying unseen is not for the faint hearted. I really feel sorry for the horses involved. They were being pushed from pillar to post with potentially novice owners and riders. Possibly also being ridden in unsuitable tack. It's no surprise alot of them had issues.
 
A couple of well-regarded dealers who often get recommended on here and many other places are pushing buying unseen. One of them said in a recent post that they’d only done one viewing in 2025 - all the rest had been sold unseen. A local dealer here sources mainly cobs and cob x from Ireland, has lots of videos of hacking, mounting etc and offers a service where they’re brought over to the UK and then are on her yard for a week or so then get sent to the new owner. She has lots of happy testimonials on her website so it seems to be a model which works for some people
 
Yup another local to here price was premium but honoured a 2/3 month trial and took the horse back no quibble when it failed a vetting a month into trial (I was genuinely surprised by that given it could have been sound on arrival). I suspect he paid not a lot for it and plays the numbers game a bit.
 
From reading the posts on the group, it seems the selling contract did not always state that the horses were going on trial at all, let alone trial after trial, and the owners were not informed when their horse had left the yard. So they were kept in the dark about what was happening with their animals, along with them being sent with ill-fitting tack that wasn't theirs.

I totally agree the horses weren't given a chance.
 
U.N.Owen said:
It's very sad! One being listed as now dangerous used to be handled and ridden by a 10 year old! Was definitely not dangerous but after (at least) 5 trials appears to be now.
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Poor horses , they are the important ones and it’s not surprising their temperaments suffer . What is going to happen to them now ?
 
splashgirl45 said:
Poor horses , they are the important ones and it’s not surprising their temperaments suffer . What is going to happen to them now ?
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I believe the dealer is so deluded that she probably still thinks this is going to go away. She's already tried throwing the sue card about, she's filed for bankruptcy so posts can now be removed etc.

One can only hope the authorities step in so return horses to their rightful owners, and those she is selling are removed and rehomed somehow, though this is wishful thinking.

The reality will likely be far from this.
 
Mollysmum said:
I’m not bonkers as you like to call us. I bought a horse from Ireland unseen, untried, asked 100’s of questions and got lots of videos. He’s almost perfect! I say almost because no horse is. He is exactly as described in his advertisement, unlike the ones from this person whose descriptions are a pack of lies.
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I bought unseen from Italy and she wasn’t as described… she was so so much better.
But I do think there was a bit of craziness on my part on that one.
 
I can fully see how these people thought this could be a safer option with the offer to return the horse if things didn’t work out. No doubt that was sold as a benefit to the horse so that they could “find their perfect home” etc to help reel folk in.
But I can’t imagine anyone who bought these horses were doing it with the intention of returning them and would’ve had no idea the ordeal the horses were going through.

I’m not sure where we draw the line when it comes to crime if we start blaming victims.
“Well it’s really her own fault she was stabbed. It wouldn’t have happened if she’d left the house in a full suit of armour “ 🤷🏼‍♀️
 
Apizz2019 said:
The saying 'You never know until you're in that situation' is very true.

I appreciate it's very off topic but I'll give you an example of this.

Without giving too much away to identify myself, a few years ago someone very close to me was the victim of a horrible assault. We're talking a severe injury.

I did not react or feel how I thought I would, or should. I was calm, reasoned, didn't cry - literally it was like any other normal day. Most of those around me could not understand. Even the police were surprised at how calm I was. A lot of my friends were aghast and some have not spoken to me since.

It didn't mean I didn't care, or wasn't thinking straight. It's just how I reacted at that time.

What I'm trying to say, in a roundabout way, is that none of us know how, and what, someone is feeling in any given moment. We don't always react, or behave, how others think we should or even how we imagine we would in a situation. It's very easy to sit on the sidelines and judge but until you're in a situation, you can't judge others for what you perceive as good or bad decisions.

Scammers, con artists, whatever we like to call them, are highly accomplished and sophisticated. It does not matter if it's parting with money for investment, a product, an animal or anything else. They know their game well and can fool even the most intelligent, experienced, and aware, individuals.

I think the aggravating factor here is that this was the sale of sentient beings where there is, in my opinion, a higher level of emotional investment than there would otherwise be.
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Not really sure of what you're saying tbh.

It's not a situation I would ever find myself in. I would never think that a 2 week trial in lieu of either a proper viewing or firm commitment to keep for a reasonable time is an appropriate way to buy an animal....because of the potential impact on the animal it I make a mistake.

In terms of being conned or buying dodgy goods I am more than capable of ending up in that position, and indeed have. Most notably with a horsebox - I was sold a pack of nonsense, ignored a lot of red flags, and following delivery had to send it back and then spent considerable months retrieving my money, which was only actually possible because I part-paid by credit card. But I don't buy live animals like I buy inanimate objects and would never take the same return risks with an animal's life involved in the mix. Prior to this incident/thread I actually thought I was fairly normal in this respect, but maybe I'm not. I do find it deeply depressing that people have been sending horses backwards and forwards like defective Amazon packages - I genuinely didn't realise it was so commonplace
 
DabDab said:
Not really sure of what you're saying tbh.

It's not a situation I would ever find myself in. I would never think that a 2 week trial in lieu of either a proper viewing or firm commitment to keep for a reasonable time is an appropriate way to buy an animal....because of the potential impact on the animal it I make a mistake.

In terms of being conned or buying dodgy goods I am more than capable of ending up in that position, and indeed have. Most notably with a horsebox - I was sold a pack of nonsense, ignored a lot of red flags, and following delivery had to send it back and then spent considerable months retrieving my money, which was only actually possible because I part-paid by credit card. But I don't buy live animals like I buy inanimate objects and would never take the same return risks with an animal's life involved in the mix. Prior to this incident/thread I actually thought I was fairly normal in this respect, but maybe I'm not. I do find it deeply depressing that people have been sending horses backwards and forwards like defective Amazon packages - I genuinely didn't realise it was so commonplace
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I was referring to your comment about struggling with unbound empathy for the buyers and your assertion that you would never find yourself in such a situation. By your own admission you have been conned, albeit with a product, not a sentient being. There is no difference. Being conned is being conned.

Should we feel less sympathy for these buyers than you, because yours was an object and these are animals?
No.
I feel as much empathy for you as I do for them. Being taken for a ride with your hard earned money is no joke, nor is it something that we should blame on the victim.

I dont think any of the buyers went into this with the view that they could return a sentient being like an Amazon package. Why would they? They not only parted with substantial amounts of money for the horses, they also had vet costs, transport costs etc. The lady I know spent almost 1k on top of the purchase price before the horse had arrived on the yard, plus return transport costs when sending the horse back.

Your interpretation on the situation focuses on the trial period only and horses being shunted here, there, and everywhere, which I agree is awful, but if you visit the Facebook page, you will see a lot of the buyers were unaware that the horses they had, had been passed from pillar to post. sometimes for months on end. The general tone is not only buyers remorse for monies they may never see again, or injuries that will never heal, but the realisation that these horses were passed around like after dinner mints.

The trial was just one of the key selling points that made her offering attractive, albeit pointless as her terms did not supersede consumer rights. She had a good reputation, outstanding reviews on every platform, and she seemed to have the perfect offering. As 'bonkers' as it might seem (not my words or thoughts on this matter), people were drawn into the 'too good to be true' buyers dream and were well and truly hoodwinked.

It didn't help that every negative review was taken down as quickly as it appeared, and even dodgy dealer pages were endorsing her at every opportunity. One DD admin wrote if she were to buy a horse, SWSNBN would be the first port of call.

In todays world of horse shopping, where there is a dealer at every corner, many that we would not poke with a sh***y stick, the endorsements and glowing reviews only helped facilitate what we now know was fraud, on a larger scale than most of us had probably imagined.

My sympathy is with the horses and buyers. They are not to blame for this in any way, shape, or form.
 
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DabDab said:
Not really sure of what you're saying tbh.

It's not a situation I would ever find myself in. I would never think that a 2 week trial in lieu of either a proper viewing or firm commitment to keep for a reasonable time is an appropriate way to buy an animal....because of the potential impact on the animal it I make a mistake.

In terms of being conned or buying dodgy goods I am more than capable of ending up in that position, and indeed have. Most notably with a horsebox - I was sold a pack of nonsense, ignored a lot of red flags, and following delivery had to send it back and then spent considerable months retrieving my money, which was only actually possible because I part-paid by credit card. But I don't buy live animals like I buy inanimate objects and would never take the same return risks with an animal's life involved in the mix. Prior to this incident/thread I actually thought I was fairly normal in this respect, but maybe I'm not. I do find it deeply depressing that people have been sending horses backwards and forwards like defective Amazon packages - I genuinely didn't realise it was so commonplace
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Yeah, but I think the point here is that *no one knew* the horses were being sent back and forth on multiple trials like defective Amazon packages, not the owners (if they were on sales livery) and not the buyers. Obviously that's crazy, and it would upset most horses. As far as I can tell from being nosey on the FB group (and things my friend has said), this information has come out recently as a result of people communicating with one another and comparing notes, realising that some of these horses have been passed around a lot while the dealer has taken multiple payments for them.

People bought the horses believing what was said in the advert, thinking it was unlikely that they'd send it back so long as it was in the vague ballpark of the description and, to reiterate, not having the faintest idea that they were the fourth person to have that horse in two months.

Not everyone can deal with a complicated project, unfortunately. We all have our limits. I had someone offer me a horse for free, when I was searching for one. This mare had been missold to a fellow livery, probably drugged when they viewed her. The owners were trying to do right by the mare and not just send her back on the merry-go-round. And you know what, as tempting as it was, I turned them down because I didn't want to deal with the mare's issues, either. I was looking for cheap horses and knew I'd get a project no matter what, but there were some things I was happy to work with and others, not so much.

It's a minefield no matter how you buy horses. I've always viewed them in person, but I've known that to go wrong for people too.
 
Peglo said:
I can fully see how these people thought this could be a safer option with the offer to return the horse if things didn’t work out. No doubt that was sold as a benefit to the horse so that they could “find their perfect home” etc to help reel folk in.
But I can’t imagine anyone who bought these horses were doing it with the intention of returning them and would’ve had no idea the ordeal the horses were going through.

I’m not sure where we draw the line when it comes to crime if we start blaming victims.
“Well it’s really her own fault she was stabbed. It wouldn’t have happened if she’d left the house in a full suit of armour “ 🤷🏼‍♀️
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Surprised it took so long for a ridiculous comparison to crop up...
 
Caol Ila said:
Yeah, but I think the point here is that *no one knew* the horses were being sent back and forth on multiple trials like defective Amazon packages, not the owners (if they were on sales livery) and not the buyers. Obviously that's crazy, and it would upset most horses. As far as I can tell from being nosey on the FB group (and things my friend has said), this information has come out recently as a result of people communicating with one another and comparing notes, realising that some of these horses have been passed around a lot while the dealer has taken multiple payments for them.

People bought the horses believing what was said in the advert, thinking it was unlikely that they'd send it back so long as it was in the vague ballpark of the description and, to reiterate, not having the faintest idea that they were the fourth person to have that horse in two months.

Not everyone can deal with a complicated project, unfortunately. We all have our limits. I had someone offer me a horse for free, when I was searching for one. This mare had been missold to a fellow livery, probably drugged when they viewed her. The owners were trying to do right by the mare and not just send her back on the merry-go-round. And you know what, as tempting as it was, I turned them down because I didn't want to deal with the mare's issues, either. I was looking for cheap horses and knew I'd get a project no matter what, but there were some things I was happy to work with and others, not so much.

It's a minefield no matter how you buy horses. I've always viewed them in person, but I've known that to go wrong for people too.
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But people keep saying the attraction of it was you could send back quibble free for a full refund if it didn't work out. So being able to do a quick amazon return was attractive - to many!
 
wills_91 said:
But people keep saying the attraction of it was you could send back quibble free for a full refund if it didn't work out. So being able to do a quick amazon return was attractive - to many!
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Yes, I suppose. In a way. On paper. But I don't think that's how people felt about it. Because it's a horse, they were genuinely emotionally invested in it and were devastated when the horses turned out to be a mess. If the dealer had a bunch of glowing reviews behind her, you'd almost see how one could think, 'well, she won't want horses sent back all the time because that's a pain, so if she's offering this, the horses *must* be as good as described.'
 
Apizz2019 said:
I was referring to your comment about struggling with unbound empathy for the buyers and your assertion that you would never find yourself in such a situation. By your own admission you have been conned, albeit with a product, not a sentient being. There is no difference. Being conned is being conned.

Should we feel less sympathy for these buyers than you, because yours was an object and these are animals?
No.
I feel as much empathy for you as I do for them. Being taken for a ride with your hard earned money is no joke, nor is it something that we should blame on the victim.

I dont think any of the buyers went into this with the view that they could return a sentient being like an Amazon package. Why would they? They not only parted with substantial amounts of money for the horses, they also had vet costs, transport costs etc. The lady I know spent almost 1k on top of the purchase price before the horse had arrived on the yard, plus return transport costs when sending the horse back.

Your interpretation on the situation focuses on the trial period only and horses being shunted here, there, and everywhere, which I agree is awful, but if you visit the Facebook page, you will see a lot of the buyers were unaware that the horses they had, had been passed from pillar to post. sometimes for months on end. The general tone is not only buyers remorse for monies they may never see again, or injuries that will never heal, but the realisation that these horses were passed around like after dinner mints.

The trial was just one of the key selling points that made her offering attractive, albeit pointless as her terms did not supersede consumer rights. She had a good reputation, outstanding reviews on every platform, and she seemed to have the perfect offering. As 'bonkers' as it might seem (not my words or thoughts on this matter), people were drawn into the 'too good to be true' buyers dream and were well and truly hoodwinked.

It didn't help that every negative review was taken down as quickly as it appeared, and even dodgy dealer pages were endorsing her at every opportunity. One DD admin wrote if she were to buy a horse, SWSNBN would be the first port of call.

In todays world of horse shopping, where there is a dealer at every corner, many that we would not poke with a sh***y stick, the endorsements and glowing reviews only helped facilitate what we now know was fraud, on a larger scale than most of us had probably imagined.

My sympathy is with the horses and buyers. They are not to blame for this in any way, shape, or form.
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My horsebox situation was because I took a risk with my money and ignored red flags. I'm not looking for sympathy. Risking my money is one thing, taking that risk with an animal's welfare thrown in the mix is entirely another and that is my point.

Caol Ila said:
Yeah, but I think the point here is that *no one knew* the horses were being sent back and forth on multiple trials like defective Amazon packages, not the owners (if they were on sales livery) and not the buyers. Obviously that's crazy, and it would upset most horses. As far as I can tell from being nosey on the FB group (and things my friend has said), this information has come out recently as a result of people communicating with one another and comparing notes, realising that some of these horses have been passed around a lot while the dealer has taken multiple payments for them.

People bought the horses believing what was said in the advert, thinking it was unlikely that they'd send it back so long as it was in the vague ballpark of the description and, to reiterate, not having the faintest idea that they were the fourth person to have that horse in two months.

Not everyone can deal with a complicated project, unfortunately. We all have our limits. I had someone offer me a horse for free, when I was searching for one. This mare had been missold to a fellow livery, probably drugged when they viewed her. The owners were trying to do right by the mare and not just send her back on the merry-go-round. And you know what, as tempting as it was, I turned them down because I didn't want to deal with the mare's issues, either. I was looking for cheap horses and knew I'd get a project no matter what, but there were some things I was happy to work with and others, not so much.

It's a minefield no matter how you buy horses. I've always viewed them in person, but I've known that to go wrong for people too.
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I Don't doubt that people had no idea of the amount of bounce backs from trial these horses were going through, but they knew that they might bounce it back, particularly if they knew they were unable/unwilling to deal with a horse that turned out not as described.

Given that this is unlikely to be the only dealer like this (albeit she seems to have taken it to a whole other level), I just think it is worth throwing into the discussion whether this is an appropriate way to ever buy a horse.
 
wills_91 said:
But people keep saying the attraction of it was you could send back quibble free for a full refund if it didn't work out. So being able to do a quick amazon return was attractive - to many!
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It was one of the 'attractive' elements to her sales pitch.

We've all heard of people buying a horse and the dealer refusing to honour the 30 days, or longer depending on the circumstances of the sale. This just gave extra, but pointless in the eyes of the law, reassurance but I don't believe was the deciding factor for those that went ahead and purchased. It was a 'glossy point' - she was one of very few dealers who emphasised what would happen if things didn't work out. I imagine this gave buyers a false sense of security as why would anyone be so confident to actively promote this, when in the buyers mind the dealer would be losing the sale and money, should things not work out?

If the only takeaway you have from this whole thread is the trial period and Amazon returns, that's on you.
 
DabDab said:
My horsebox situation was because I took a risk with my money and ignored red flags. I'm not looking for sympathy. Risking my money is one thing, taking that risk with an animal's welfare thrown in the mix is entirely another and that is my point.
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Very much the same as the buyers did! They too took a risk and ignored red flags.

The buyers were unaware horses were being passed around. Joe Public wasn't aware either as the horses were almost always still advertised for sale while out on trial.

Buyers didn't invest serious money, and time, thinking they would be handing the horse back at the end of the trial period. That's the point I think you are missing!
 
But surely buying a horse because there was an easy option to send the poor creature back if you changed your mind should NOT be a good thing!

Perhaps it makes it too easy for the prospective owner to not think the whole thing through properly?
I have never, and would never buy any animal thinking I could " just send it back"!

Doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks about whose fault the bad decision making was, this, as far as I am concerned is a vile way to treat any animal, let alone a species upset by changes of home.
 
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