The 'five freedoms' and horse welfare

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Shilasdair

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Hi all
Just pondering whether we keep our horses in a way that promotes their welfare in terms of the five freedoms (listed below for those like me who can't remember their own name most of the time ;))?

1. Freedom from hunger, thirst and malnutrition
2. Freedom from pain, injury and disease
3. Freedom from discomfort
4. Freedom from fear and distress
5. Freedom to express natural behaviours

Personally, I think 3. 'discomfort' might be quite hard to define objectively - and that 5. natural behaviours may well be limited for a domesticated horse.

Your views?
 
The freedom to express natural behaviours is covered as long as the horse has turnout and herd interaction of some sort.

I watch my boy being a perfectly natural baby in the field everyday, playing, grooming being told off (regular occurrence as he’s full of it!) by his herd mate.

I say as far as domesticated goes I do keep my boy free from those to the best of my ability. I’m sure most do as well.
 
Shilasdair said:
Hi all
Just pondering whether we keep our horses in a way that promotes their welfare in terms of the five freedoms (listed below for those like me who can't remember their own name most of the time ;))?

1. Freedom from hunger, thirst and malnutrition
2. Freedom from pain, injury and disease
3. Freedom from discomfort
4. Freedom from fear and distress
5. Freedom to express natural behaviours

Personally, I think 3. 'discomfort' might be quite hard to define objectively - and that 5. natural behaviours may well be limited for a domesticated horse.

Your views?
Click to expand...

I think 3 is too woolly to be much use - discomfort can be pain, but it can also be a training mechanism (apply pressure, horse moves to increase his comfort..?)
 
Really interesting post. I've been thinking about horse welfare a lot recently and think probably less horses achieve these than we suppose. Ill fitting tack, lack of turnout and suitable company are big concerns of mine that I think probably reduce the quality of life of many domestic horses. Theses three issues alone would impact points 2-5.
 
milliepops said:
I think 3 is too woolly to be much use - discomfort can be pain, but it can also be a training mechanism (apply pressure, horse moves to increase his comfort..?)
Click to expand...

Yes - it's a bit vague. It's going to be 30 plus here today - and if your field has no shade, but your stable is a wooden box - it's the lesser of two discomforts, I guess.

And the natural behaviours one - is that social interaction? Or the freedom to roam for miles, etc. So many horses are still turned out individually, too, but that could be to avoid 'freedom from pain, injury, disease' if they have no social skills.
 
Taken to the extreme, I don't think any horse kept for work of some kind doesn't have its welfare compromised at some point.
Eventually I expect I'll lose the ability to do the doublethink needed and give up keeping them.

In the meantime I think your average committed hobby rider can do pretty well on these 5 freedoms. Whether that is "good enough" depends on your moral viewpoint I think.

I have one that I definitely have to restrict on the natural behaviour front. Her natural behaviour is to start a fight with every horse she can get in contact with. The only horse she even gets to sniff noses with is my other ridden horse and she would kick him if she could.
I don't want her to cause or receive an injury so she is kept in her own paddock - I don't like individual turnout but it has its place if you want to keep a horse sound for sport... I don't know how I will manage her when she retires because I'm apprehensive of turning her out with my other field ornaments.
 
I do think that most us try to meet all the needs that our horses require. Personally I never would keep a horse on its own and try to keep them with others they get along with.

I would love to put one of mine in another field but the others don’t particularly like him and it causes friction with that herd.
 
Shilasdair said:
1. Freedom from hunger, thirst and malnutrition
2. Freedom from pain, injury and disease
3. Freedom from discomfort
4. Freedom from fear and distress
5. Freedom to express natural behaviours
Click to expand...

1. Mine definitely think they're hungry all the time. Like me, they'd rather not live on salad, but the size of their arses dictates that they must...

2. Well one does try, but pain, injury, disease and death are all inevitable in life. We can treat them, we can euthanise them as necessary, but we can't avoid them entirely.

3. Life is discomfort. This bloody weather is discomfort.

4. Butterflies. I can't kill all the butterflies just to keep Fergs from distress...

5. I'm not sure anything those hairy little freaks do is "natural".

So yea, I'm with you, on a very literal level. However, I do think we should aspire to them, within reason. Feed your horse an appropriate amount / type of food / water etc. Get the vet when they're ill. Don't do awful, unnecessary things to them. Don't expose them to things which are unnecessarily traumatic. Let them in a field to be horses, give them friends and a decent life.

We might bicker about where we draw some lines, but in principle, it's not ludicrous.
 
The first two are pretty simple

I agree 3 is difficult to quantify - there's a level at which discomfort becomes pain (either physical or emotional) surely but until that point how can you tell? As an example, my boy has serious melanomas in his sheath. I assume they must be uncomfortable because they look like they would be but he doesn't show any signs of them affecting him. He wees(copious amounts :rolleyes:) with no problems, he's as active and playful as any other 23 year old horse (if not more so), in excellent condition, eating and drinking normally and never seems to pay any attention to them (i.e no kicking at his sheath or rubbing it etc). The only obvious irritation to him is me fiddling. I have to give them all a good clean every so often and he hates this so much I have to sedate him to do it. I would think getting everything clean and fresh would feel nice but he clearly disgrees so what I consider discomfort and what he considers discomfort are obviously very different.

As JFTD says 4 isn't possible all the time as there are factors beyond our control (which would also be the case in the wild) but we should strive not to cause/add to their distress or fear.

In terms of 5 - obviously their lives are very different from the lives they'd have in the wild but over time they have evolved / been conditioned to have new 'natural behaviours.' Daily turnout (unless on box rest) and interaction with other horses would be the minimum requirement I would say.
 
The five freedoms where developed as a concept to give a framework for acceptable farming practices .
They really mean very little
Freedom from hunger thirst and malnutrition
The second two, they are simple horses should not be malnourished by getting to little food or too much of the wrong thing , the first does not stand up to closer scrutiny, sometimes some horses have to be hungry it necessary for their welfare .

Freedom from pain injury or disease .
Impossible to guarantee you can’t stop horse getting viruses mud fever and a thousand things ,you can’t stop horses being injured except if they lived in padded cells and you could only free horses from the inevitable pain of for example old age by shooting them all young .

Freedom from discomfort

Well that’s just silly , while I can bring my horses in all day everyday in summer into large cool stables away from the flys many people can’t ,the examples of the silliness of this one are endless .
Some discomfort is evitable in life .

Freedom from fear and distress

I think we all sort of know what they are getting at no unnecessary proding with poles at marts the quiet calm handling of stock that sort of thing .
But a life totally without fear to distress shooting them all would be the only way forward

Freedom to express natural behaviours

Again we know what they are getting at but no gelding lots of stallions running about fighting over mares indiscriminate breeding , dying of starvation in old age when their teeth don’t work any more etc etc it’s not ideal is it .

Luckily the five freedoms are not law , because you can’t define them properly and they contradict the each other , they work as what they where supposed to a broad frame work to work out what is a reasonable way to manage animals .
 
This came from the RSPCA which is probably more in line with what most of us try to do.
  • need for a suitable environment
  • need for a suitable diet
  • need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns
  • need to be housed with, or apart, from other animals
  • need to be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease.

My mare would complain at #1 of the 5 freedoms - she's definitely not free from hunger, but without some dietary management she won't be free from laminitis either.
 
SEL said:
My mare would complain at #1 of the 5 freedoms - she's definitely not free from hunger, but without some dietary management she won't be free from laminitis either.
Click to expand...

Yes, my two would have something to say about "freedom from hunger" at the moment if they could.

They also had some impressive fear and distress this morning when I brought them some rose cuttings to pick at, apparently I looked like some form of horse-eating trifid.
 
I would view these as guidelines to provide the following:

1. Access to fresh water at all times when not working and a suitable diet for animals needs
2. Suitable precautions to prevent injury and disease, veterinary care when needed and a safe environment
3. Well fitting tack, acceptable fitness for level of work required and a sympathetic rider.
4. A good general education for the horse and consideration of environment and situations horse is exposed too
5. Ideally plenty of turnout. Opportunities to form social bonds
 
My lot are happy, they want to be ridden (fight over it sometimes!), they enjoy going places in the lorry (load selves, get grumpy when it’s not their turn), and are free to do whatever they want in the field (which grows v little grass so no one has to be muzzled or restricted ) 22 hours a day. That’ll do me.
 
No human or animal gets all those all the time - you just have to do
Your best - domestic animals have less suffering from pain than their wild counterparts but being able to achieve all of them all the time is just simply not possible... eg have you seen horses booting each other in the field? 5 is not possible if 3 must be maintained and vice versa
 
I can see some animal rights group claiming that 'freedom from discomfort' means horses shouldn't be ridden.
 
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