The Good, The Bad and the Ugly...Shocking Reports..please read if you can..

Well actually that wasnt the point i was trying to make whether they are made in to handbags is not the issue especially in wales and the new forrest most of these ponies are bred on common land and grazed on there.

If they brought in some kind of law that if a certain percent of you herd was not of a certain standard when graded then you would lose the right to sell ponies in this way then they would be forced to upgrade their stock.

The way these ponies are kept and handled hardly makes them suitable for sales which is where they are going to end up or it makes them of such low value, i attend lots of sales and handled ponies in good condition always make more money and i am sure secure a better future.
I know these kinds of ponies have always been bred and raised in this way but it does not really benefit the breed or the buying public so if we are breeding these ponies for meat what are crusade should be about is having a slaughterhouse in the new forest wales dartmoor etc so if they have to slaughtered it is done close to home i would apply this to all livestock it would be better for the animals and would feed the green low food miles outlook as well.
 
sadly the fluffy bunny brigade dont like slaughter houses:(
And DEFRA helped shut a few down aswell hence why these dealers are making their money abroad.

Upgrading of ponies like New forest,dartmoors etc is difficult due to the rules surrounding stallions that are used.
And the appaloosa new forest ponies??? yeah that was numpties idea of improving the breed! :mad:
 
Yes i know that but the whole green issue low food miles etc could only help us i think breeding ponies for salaughter is obscene but i think if we are going to have a crusade we should object to these native ponies being bred in this way it benefits no one i am from the very north of england very north and they used the excuse of its aye been this means its always been to stop women riding in the common ridings.
Of course when you look back in history of course their was women fighting in wars which is what the common ridings are about so it wasny aye been.

I know alot of the slaughter laws are to do with the EU but things are now changing we want food to do less air miles use less fuel even the celebrity chefs on telly are killing their own animals.

There has been two posts in reply to my previous posts i think one said we should fight a battle we could win referring to trying to stop live export WHW and RSPCA have been trying to do this for years with some sucsess but we are dealing with people who eat horses so have a different outlook and this trade has been going on for a long time in their country if you talk to people in this country about it they are usually shocked and dont know much about it if you remeber the labour government used fox hunting as one of their vote winners what do you think would have happened if they had used videos of live horse transport, we need a high profile government member to front this.

What we need to do is support local slaughter for all animals the green low food miles is our perfect option this would answer the other reply towards my post regarding slaughterhouses and the chance to make them more local we need to join up with other groups supporting slaughter of farm animals the general public is very concerned with transport and slaughter of all meat animals and thier upkeep this is our chance to make a difference.
Another thing i cant ever remember a high profile campaign in this country about the slaughter or transport of horses as i would say again i hear more about foxes.
Just to say i do hunt just a point of what will stick in the publics minds most is whatever they hear a high profile public figure talking about so that would have to be the way to go.
 
nativeponies said:
I really don't know PF? :confused: :(

Those tiny, little ponies came from Dartmoor on the second weekend in October...trawled to the Sth France..."dodging" Customs, to then be sold to an Italian "fur dealer" because they are skewbald/spotted..and endure another 15 hour journey to be killed...and because they are only needed for their pitifull little skins, no-one will bother to either feed or water the poor little feckers....
shocking...

I believe HHO/and Horse and Hound, which promotes itself as the UK's best selling Equine Mag, should get it's act together and STRONGLY protest for the Ports to sort out/adhere to current legislation......

i wont hold my breath.....

As going by the inane crap that is posted on here on a daily basis...and by browsing through the mag that i no longer buy, as it's so lightweight it needs a brick on it to keep it from blowing out the newsagents door, it may well be a very long time before the horse owning Joe Public gets their head round the REAL world.
:confused: :confused:
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totally agree, the problem with the real world IMO is there to damn fluffy.
PTS.. lets bury in back yard bla bla bla

then you have these intelligent animals that suffer for many hours. I have no issues with a pony/horse being killed for a trade. But as yourself i have a huge issue with the torment that leads to the end of the supply/demand trade.
also the way it is gone about. uk ports have regulations so lets just ship them for a few more miles on a huge detour just to escape regulations.

Horse and hound come on pull your finger out, your an international mag, the dartmoors are now notoriusley badley bred, for no reason atall. Exmoor can remain pure why cant Dartmoor.
 
The campaign against live export from the UK and Ireland has actually been on-going for over a hundred years. I'm not exaggerating. I can find you clippings from before World War One about the trade.

Didn't H&H do a blog in which a journalist followed meat export horses across Europe? In partnership with WHW?

Yes, press coverage would be great, but it never seems to really tackle the roots of the problem. Look at this piece on the BBC about Brecon and hill ponies:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-11465930

Absolutely NO critical questions are asked as to why these ponies exist in the first place.


And related HHO discussion: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=406075

I spent a day at a major horse charity earlier this year and they were just off in convoy to pick up 30-odd neglected hill ponies. It would cost them an absolute fortune to rehab them.

I do pitch the odd article to UK papers but it's hard to do as a freelancer ( :o long, unrelated story) and it's often Liz Jones who takes up the horse welfare stories. She'd be perfectly placed to weigh in on the handbag/fashion industry angle. She'd be a good person to let know...
 
Just a thought, because I have signed a couple of these this year and the petitions were successful

Here's a link to E-Petitions, its a government run website where you can set up any petition neccesary and submit to Number 10. There have been similar petitions set up, but you have to get 500 signatories or more for it will be passed to officials who work for the Prime Minister in Downing Street, or sent to the relevant Government department for a response.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/about

So if anyone wants to put together a spiel to either:

a) Ban live exports of ponies or
b) Tighten current regulations of live export

I would do it, but looking at some of the replies on here, I don't know enough to put forward a clear argument.

Happy to set up the petition if someone can write the rationale, or leave one of you to it?
There has been similar petitions set up, but they have not reached the 500 signatories so they are now closed.
 
nativeponies said:
As does the Daily Mail ;)

Anyone fancy a "crusade"?
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Maybe it's time to use the sensational journalistic talents of papers such as the Mail to our advantage? The only problem I could foresee is that they would bias the whole article towards the banning of horse slaughter/handbag production per se, whereas in actual fact it is the illegal and inhumane transportation that most sensible people take umbrage at. I personally no more want to ban horse slaughter than I want to ban slaughter of other farmed animals, I just want to see the rules enforced regarding hoof transport/exportation. If cattle,sheep and pigs only had access to two abbatoirs in the uk, there would be uproar. I appreciate that far more of those go to slaughter than equines, but the fact remains, we need MORE facilities to slaughter horses, not LESS. I have no issues with traders making money out of horseflesh, or cattle/sheep/pigs, as long as they are humanely treated and slaughtered at the end of it. As I have said before, it is not just quality of life, but quality of death.
 
JenJ said:
*gingerly puts hand up*

Can I ask a probably stupid and potentially offensive question? I only joined HHO this year, but have heard a lot of muted reference to 'those who must not be named'. Whenever I heard of ERF I assumed they were part of it.

Now it seems I got that wrong - ERF have a different agenda?
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Yes you have got it totally wrong, ERF are definitely the good guys, unfortunately because they operate in *******ce, (the country which must not be named) they are unable to post on here.:(
 
Groom42 said:
Maybe it's time to use the sensational journalistic talents of papers such as the Mail to our advantage? The only problem I could foresee is that they would bias the whole article towards the banning of horse slaughter/handbag production per se, whereas in actual fact it is the illegal and inhumane transportation that most sensible people take umbrage at. I personally no more want to ban horse slaughter than I want to ban slaughter of other farmed animals, I just want to see the rules enforced regarding hoof transport/exportation. If cattle,sheep and pigs only had access to two abbatoirs in the uk, there would be uproar. I appreciate that far more of those go to slaughter than equines, but the fact remains, we need MORE facilities to slaughter horses, not LESS. I have no issues with traders making money out of horseflesh, or cattle/sheep/pigs, as long as they are humanely treated and slaughtered at the end of it. As I have said before, it is not just quality of life, but quality of death.
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That's where the "Tell Liz Jones about it" plan falls down :rolleyes:
 
This could do with a bit of support...

http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/pet...-tighten-the-1990-statutory-order-no2627/109/

Horse and ponies, as i've mentioned several times before, get a rough deal at markets/in transit because THEY ARE NOT CLASSED AS AGRI ANIMALS...

Until they have the same rights as cattle/sheep/pigs etc they will continue to be used and abused in this way.

I mentioned previously too that a horses passport/paperwork is just that a pice of paper.
it should have the same regulations attached as farm animals, whereby after it has been bought at a market IT CANNOT BE SOLD ON AT ANOTHER MARKET FOR 30 DAYS.

that would stop the trawling up and down of markets here.

i agree with Trinity Fox that this problem should be stopped at grass roots (but please, i DO NOT profit from these ponies, and i'm not involved in breeding them!)
The New Forest commoners do seem to be actively doing something to cut the numbers of foals born each year by restricting the turnout of the Stallions onto the forest,,resulting in a huge drop in numbers this year...infact the Stallions were only out for 4 weeks this year, so next year will see a further drop.

As for the DHP's/Welsh hill ponies..as far as i'm aware, Stallions roam all year round, so something similar to the Forest could be done to manage numbers there?..Does anyone on here have contacts in Wales/Dartmoor?

It's a massive problem, and i for one thinks it should be brought to the attention of not only the Equestrian World...but Joe Public as a whole.
 
This trade is totally sickening. I'm another who isn't against humane horse slaughter, but I hate the journeys the poor mites have to go through. Thanks for posting np, lots of people need to see that.


Should we start drafting a letter that we can all print off and send to our local MPs? It's a start and might just get the ball rolling. I think we need to gather enough evidence and sources and have it pretty eloquently written for it to have some clout.

I did see in our local saddlers a while back some flyers, which had been put together by the BHS (totally unrelated, it was about bridleways) but the concept of having a load of flyers with a message that your average Joe Bloggs who's wandering around the shop can pick up, sign and stick in the post to relevant MP (or somebody else) I thought was pretty good. Do we think something like that could raise some awareness or have any sort of effect? I reckon it's something we need to stick at the forefront of people's minds.
 
Trinity Fox said:
Sorry but have to angrily post again to NP you have posted about it being morally wrong for ponies being transported abroad and shot to make handbags when they can be shot here ha bloody ha why instead of posting about horses in france cant you protest about the low grade ponies at the sales over here .

Should that not be more important now if i am wrong then correct me but is it because you make money from this trade that you have not posted to people to contact the whw about this trade that is just as despicable.
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no need to be angry TF..

I'm actively involved with things that go on in the UK every week/month...and its endless and full of red tape..

The point i am trying to bring to peoples attention here is that these hill ponies, if all rules and regs were adhered to in the UK, WOULD NEVER HAVE GOT TO FRANCE in the first place.

This subject, welfare at markets/transportation is very much a "campaign" that i will always shout about/bang my drum about as quite rightly, as you say, should be sorted out, and sorted NOW
 
TF you have it so wrong. NP constantly draws attention to the plight of ponies at sales over here, yes she buys some of them, but to stop them suffering the nightmare described in the blog.
Just a thought, but does anyone have any contacts with the BBC? Countryfile did a feature on the hill ponies on Snowdon a couple of weeks ago, wonder if they would be interested in what happens to some of the hill ponies?
 
Quick question. If someone were to take some of these poor little beasts to a UK horse slaughterer and they are unhandled and scared of people, how do they shoot them? We've all seen the grey pony being held gently and shot in the head but how do you shoot a whole herd of frantic people-shy ponies?

P.S I like the idea of the "somerset pony handbag" but can you imagine the public outcry? I would buy one but I'd probably end up covered in red paint or something....
 
What I Dont understand is how DEFRA (Destruction of English Farming Regulartoty Authority) are so very strict on the welfare of sheep, cattle and pigs, yet horses it doesn't seem to matter???
I agree with horses being slaughtered but why do they have to suffer to such an extent beforehand???
Bit gross but when a sheep is killed you can tell if its been streesed and the meat isn't as good quality so isn't it in the horse butchers best interest for the horses to be looked after???
(I apoligise for spelling/grammer!)
 
I expect it's the same. I think, with theses horses however, they are being shipped to Italy to become a handbag/shoes etc. As a result, nobady cares if they are starving or if they have obscene amounts of adreneline pumping through them. Doesn't effect the skins.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
There have got to be people on this Forum who know someone who can provide DEFRA Export Dept with the intelligence they need to act.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/welfare/transport/horse/index.htm

The rules are strict, as those leaving our shores trying to take their elderly ponies with them will tell you, but are clearly being openly broken.

Come on HHOers start reporting what you see/hear--World Horse Welfare will listen,
DEFRA EXPORT will listen

The minimum value rules were introduced to stop our wild native ponies being transported hundreds of miles to slaughter, they clearly are not working.
One poster drew our attention to the NF pony foals, sold under their names at BRoad for less than minimum values which were on rescue sites one month later last autumn.
DEFRA EXPORT had no record of them leaving UK under those names.
 
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I apologise if this is slightly off-topic.
Half the problem with Joe Public is the sentimentality attached to animals, and the reasons behind the majority of them. For example, farmers do not grow lambs to make the fields look pretty in the Spring - they are a crop, inasmuch as wheat or barley. That crop will be grown and nurtured, to no more than is economically viable. Therefore,if a field of wheat rots, or is lost, it is disposed of when it becomes apparent that no amount of treatment will save it. Likewise stock. Many years ago, whilst veal production was being generally vilified, I continually stated that bull calves were a by-product of milk production. If we didn't want to consider continental veal crates then we needed to PROMOTE veal consumption, then the "poor little calves" would be grown for meat, and slaughtered here instead of being shipped off to the continent where the conditions of husbandry and slaughter were less than ideal. Hallelujah! At last, thanks to some celebrity chefs and the delightful Miss Street-Porter, the message is getting through; more veal is eaten here and less calves get a crate to live in. Racing is an industry, albeit one that generates a huge amount of income for relatively few people, and one that provides pleasure to an awful lot more. (Then, so does farming - think of the pleasure you get from a roast). Sadly, a by-product of THIS industry is a large quantity of inferior, for many reasons, horses. Perhaps if JP woke up to the reality, and the sentiment was removed, fewer of these "by-products" would end up in low end sales, and with shonky dealers etc? Someone mentioned on the Meat Man thread the possibility of buying these horses, giving them a few months of good grass and feed, then sending them for humane,quick and efficient slaughter. IMHO this would be a FAR better outcome for many than what they have to endure at present. It doesn't address the issue of ponies (natives, of any breeding) that get shoved through sales and then through the back door into Europe. Ending indiscriminate breeding will help, no doubt, but perhaps raising JP's awareness of what REALLY happens to these "cuties" after the Countryfile-style round ups would also? There is a FaceAche page screaming to "End Horse Slaughter". I think there should be one that is informed, and informative, setting out the reasons for HS to be supported and promoted. Perhaps if JP were better informed then surplus horses and ponies would enjoy the end to their lives that more and more bull calves are? ***** Sits back and waits for the "horse hater" bricksbats *****
 
Trinity Fox said:
Sorry but have to angrily post again to NP you have posted about it being morally wrong for ponies being transported abroad and shot to make handbags when they can be shot here ha bloody ha why instead of posting about horses in france cant you protest about the low grade ponies at the sales over here .

Should that not be more important now if i am wrong then correct me but is it because you make money from this trade that you have not posted to people to contact the whw about this trade that is just as despicable.
Click to expand...

The whole point, surely, is that the ponies NP posted about are *from* the UK! They are being transported for hours across Europe from this country.
 
MurphysMinder said:
Yes you have got it totally wrong, ERF are definitely the good guys, unfortunately because they operate in *******ce, (the country which must not be named) they are unable to post on here.:(
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Thanks MM. I suspect I'm not the only one who has misunderstood ERF. Not sure how that can be addressed on here though given the posting restrictions...

Certainly from a newcomer's perspective, the ban on mentioning names gives the impression that all ****ch R***** organisations must be bad.
 
JenJ said:
Thanks MM. I suspect I'm not the only one who has misunderstood ERF. Not sure how that can be addressed on here though given the posting restrictions...

Certainly from a newcomer's perspective, the ban on mentioning names gives the impression that all ****ch R***** organisations must be bad.
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Just to clarify, there's a huge difference between an organisation such as ERF that acts in France (where there is no other welfare body doing what they do) in a similar manner to the WHW (campaigning for transport restrictions, taking in neglect cases, pushing for law changes and prosecutions against those that abuse equines) and those dealer run 'rescue' forums that buy cheaply from French abattoir queues, transport and import illegally into the UK, and sell on into the UK herd for profit.

Admin, if you feel the need to remove this post, please do. BUT please leave the thread - it's vitally important that this knowledge is out there for people to see the reality of the trade in misery across the Channel.
 
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While I admit to being a bit of a " fluffy bunny" at times and hate to think of what happens to these ponies I can see the sense of having them killed quickly and humanely in this country. The hell they must go through on journeys abroad does not bear thinking about.
I have not read this whole thread so someone may have already mentioned it but would it be a good idea for someone to compose a letter and post it on here so wecould all print a copy sign and sendto the powers that be, whoever they are?
May be they would take notice of a few hundred letters on the subject?
May not change things but at least we would all be doing something. It may bring it to public attention anyway.
Might be a stupid idea but may be worht a go? What do others think?
 
Farrierlover said:
Quick question. If someone were to take some of these poor little beasts to a UK horse slaughterer and they are unhandled and scared of people, how do they shoot them? We've all seen the grey pony being held gently and shot in the head but how do you shoot a whole herd of frantic people-shy ponies?

QUOTE]



Exactly what I was wondering? Can anyone shed any light? Obviously alot Kinder than been transported to france but how would you do it?
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Indalo said:
Farrierlover said:
Quick question. If someone were to take some of these poor little beasts to a UK horse slaughterer and they are unhandled and scared of people, how do they shoot them? We've all seen the grey pony being held gently and shot in the head but how do you shoot a whole herd of frantic people-shy ponies?

QUOTE]



Exactly what I was wondering? Can anyone shed any light? Obviously alot Kinder than been transported to france but how would you do it?
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I would like to know this too please if any one knows. Maybe nativeponies knows?
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Indalo said:
Farrierlover said:
Quick question. If someone were to take some of these poor little beasts to a UK horse slaughterer and they are unhandled and scared of people, how do they shoot them? We've all seen the grey pony being held gently and shot in the head but how do you shoot a whole herd of frantic people-shy ponies?

QUOTE]



Exactly what I was wondering? Can anyone shed any light? Obviously alot Kinder than been transported to france but how would you do it?
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I'm sure it's a bit different when you have a whole herd to deal with but I had a similar pony shot earlier this year. Strangers couldn't get within about 10 feet of him. He was shot with a rifle by a guy who was an excellent marksman. He is sometimes called in by the police to shoot herds of wild ponies that are causing a hazard on a road or similar, so 10 feet was no problem for him. The guys at the abattoirs are well used to dealing with ponies like this so I'm sure they have a method that works well.
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1. Write to the European Commissioner for Health and Consumer Policy, John Dalli. He's responsible for any amendments made to the legislation covering the transport of horses to slaughter (EU Council Regulation (EC) No 1/2005). Scroll to the bottom of this page to download our template letter (English only - other languages to follow), or feel free to write in your own words. Get John Dalli's contact details.

2. Contact your MEPs and ask them to follow up with the European Commission for a response to the Written Declaration. To find out who your MEPs are, click on this link to visit the European Parliament website.

3. Send a postcard to the President of the European Commission, José Manuel Barroso, asking him to stop this unnecessary suffering. These are available in French, German and English. Request a postcard now.

4. Raise awareness in Europe. Although we already have supporters helping us across Europe, we always need more. Please ask friends and family to get involved. Also, if you can speak another language and would be willing to help with translation, we'd love to hear from you. Please telephone us on +44 (0)1953 497262.

5. Write to your local newspaper to spread the word of this inhumane practice and to encourage people to get involved

6. Tweet! An increasing number of MEPs have accounts on sites like Facebook and Twitter - why not get in touch with them about the campaign?

7. Join the team by becoming an active campaigner

8. Donate and help us to continue with the campaign

From the WHW website

http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/you-help/take-action
 
Would anybody with any sort of letter-writing prowess care to draft a letter and post it here? If it's going to be done it should be done properly and I'm reluctant to write a load of c**p and send it.
 
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