the importance of hi viz

OF COURSE IT HAPPENED you horrible person. Do you think that I could make up anything so sick.

Thank you for making me feel so much better. 10 years it has taken me to pick up the reins again of my life - no pun intended - and you and your friend have set me right back.

Thank you.
 
I'm also struggling with it but don't doubt it happened just that the unfolding events have become jumbled over time. The thing I take most from this though is not the high vis - that is almost irrelevant to such a horrific situation its the crossing anywhere near a blind bend, its certainly made me more aware of the dangers of that.
 
WelshD said:
I'm also struggling with it but don't doubt it happened just that the unfolding events have become jumbled over time. The thing I take most from this though is not the high vis - that is almost irrelevant to such a horrific situation its the crossing anywhere near a blind bend, its certainly made me more aware of the dangers of that.
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This and this
 
Just one thing, ringing 999 on a mobile was entirely possible 10 years ago. I know, I have had to do it and that was before this incident happened.
Motorcyclists are their own worst enemy, that's why so many get killed every year. I still find it hard to believe that any hospital would have sent you home with so many injuries and in such pain. You had also been knocked out. That is the part I don't get, I'm afraid.
 
I have been reading this post with interest and the comments made. I have my own opinion on this, but one question that i would like to ask that hasnt been picked up from what i can see so far. Please dont take this as a challenge, or respond in an angry manner. What really strikes me is the comment that you had been trying to keep this out of the media for the last 10 years? Can i ask why you chose to do this. As you can see from your post you have a huge amount of support, and have struck a chord with many on their own riding habits. Many of us are also motorcyclists, runners, pedestrians etc, and if you felt you could save a life of either human or animal, and you have had such a catalogue of mistakes (hospital wise), ongoing medical conditions, lack of support(financially or otherwise), why would you not have pushed this through the media? Thats the part i dont understand. Furthermore, you have spoken to Oz about it - so you have let some people know? I would appreciate your clarification, not your anger, to understand your decision please?
 
intrigue said:
What really strikes me is the comment that you had been trying to keep this out of the media for the last 10 years? Can i ask why you chose to do this.
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This struck me too - but I'd forgotten about it until you just posted.

Individuals really can't keep anything out of the media (unless they have a lot of money to throw at solicitors to put an injunction in place). So if was the case that this person hadn't wanted anything in the papers - they'd have stood no chance. Even if it was just a one liner reporting the accident on the local news or in the local rag.

The accident sound absolutely horrific and catastrophic - just the sort to be picked up by the media and run with.
 
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Exactly amymay. It isnt my place to question whether it happened or didnt happen, I find it absolutely horrific and if it can make any of us safer then its a good thing. However, there are points that Nikki has made that people are going to pick up on and question. I know its still emotive for her, and i dont think anyone is taking this away, they want clarification, and gettting personal or angry isnt the most pro active response. She wont name the hospital in case of libel action - but if they were in the wrong, she couldnt be sued, or at the very least she could counter sue. Secondly, insurances do pay out on long term trauma - otherwise there would be no whiplash claims! I also find it strange that the air ambulance wasnt called with those injuries - and before i am attacked saying i clearly havent had a major trauma - i have, the ambulance came, refused to move me and then i was airlifted! So i do have experience, my breaks were not as severe as Nikki's and luckily no loss of life to anyone.

I am incredibly surprised that this wasnt picked up and run with, especially in the early era of mobile phones - the benefits of carrying one etc. I also fail to see how the police would hold them partially responsible if they hadnt had high viz on? Also, any motor cyclist looking down at that speed regardless of being on a corner or not........

I've now gone on - i really didnt want to share an opinon on this - just several things i dont understand....
 
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Nikki J said:
It is not odd at all that I rang my husband - I had my mobile phone with me, and certainly back then you couldn't dial 999 on a mobile, you had to dial some other number.
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I personally have used a mobile phone to call 999 directly before the date of the incident.

I also feel that if I had been a victim to this accident I would have it whipped up into a media storm faster than you can say Daily Mail.

If this story isn't fabricated, it is one of many real fears that keep my horses and myself off of the roads as much as possible.
 
An RTA serious enough to paralyse a motorcyclist, kill a horse and injure their riders, plus close a road probably for several hours would most definitely have been picked up by the local media. I would have thought it to be local knowledge to horseriders in the area too.
 
WelshD said:
I'm also struggling with it but don't doubt it happened just that the unfolding events have become jumbled over time. The thing I take most from this though is not the high vis - that is almost irrelevant to such a horrific situation its the crossing anywhere near a blind bend, its certainly made me more aware of the dangers of that.
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It most definitely did happen, and believe me the unfolding events are not in any way jumbled. I can go through every second of the whole thing starting from when it actually happened at 6.30 pm right through to when I returned from hospital with my husband much later than night.

You are right about blind bends. Although the police completely exonerated us riders from any blame as to whether we should or not have crossed there - it was 200 yards to the right of where we came out from the yard. If the motorcyclist had been travelling at 60 - even that was far too fast IMO - the acident would not have happened. When you bear in mind that the speed of the bike at point of impact was 70 mph - as confirmed by the jammed spedometer and the estimation of the police expert by the length of the skid mark on the road - a distance of 200 yards from the corner should be plenty.

However, after the accident my friend had a side gate put into her yard which led straight out onto the farmer's fields, so that she could go there onto the set aside, which sadly now has been ploughed up, but the farmer still allows her permission to go through there for obvious reasons.
 
lhotse said:
An RTA serious enough to paralyse a motorcyclist, kill a horse and injure their riders, plus close a road probably for several hours would most definitely have been picked up by the local media. I would have thought it to be local knowledge to horseriders in the area too.
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Horseriders in the area are aware of this accident. The vets at Towcester Veterinary Practice are aware of the accident, the vets in Daventry are aware of the accident because they attended the scene, so just stop trying to say that this accident did not happen.
 
RunToEarth said:
I personally have used a mobile phone to call 999 directly before the date of the incident.

I also feel that if I had been a victim to this accident I would have it whipped up into a media storm faster than you can say Daily Mail.

If this story isn't fabricated, it is one of many real fears that keep my horses and myself off of the roads as much as possible.
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I did not know this - I was always told that the emergency number for mobiles was not 999.

The last thing in the world I wanted following that accident was ghoulish reporters crawling all over the place. The police PURPOSELY closed the road to keep the public and the media away. The mess was unbelievable, and apparently the ditch was full of blood.

I always said that `10 years following the accident I would go public as it were, and I have. I didn't want to do it before, for my own personal reasons.
 
intrigue said:
I have been reading this post with interest and the comments made. I have my own opinion on this, but one question that i would like to ask that hasnt been picked up from what i can see so far. Please dont take this as a challenge, or respond in an angry manner. What really strikes me is the comment that you had been trying to keep this out of the media for the last 10 years? Can i ask why you chose to do this. As you can see from your post you have a huge amount of support, and have struck a chord with many on their own riding habits. Many of us are also motorcyclists, runners, pedestrians etc, and if you felt you could save a life of either human or animal, and you have had such a catalogue of mistakes (hospital wise), ongoing medical conditions, lack of support(financially or otherwise), why would you not have pushed this through the media? Thats the part i dont understand. Furthermore, you have spoken to Oz about it - so you have let some people know? I would appreciate your clarification, not your anger, to understand your decision please?
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Why should I be angry when you have asked so nicely? You have not accused me in any way of fabrication, so therefore I thank you for your kind consideration and courtesy.

I made a vow that after the 10th anniversary I would do whatever I could to raise awareness of those people who legally use our roads - particularly on horses, but also other vulnerable users like walkers, cyclists, joggers etc. I have spoken to Oz about this accident, because completely by chance we made friends on another forum on this website. I can't even remember how it came up in "conversation", but it did.

This accident is not the only unfortunate incident in my life. I have a daughter, now grown up, who has several serious health and other issues, and over the last few years have been heavily involved with my elderly father who has been very ill. In addition, I have found it very difficult to secure permanent work due I am sure to what happened - so all in all, I have not really had the time to do a lot. I haven't now, but a promise is a promise, so here I am.
 
Why do you think that now, 10 years later and whatever happened, anything helpful to anyone else is going to come out of this....there has been lots of accidents on our roads involving walkers, riders, cyclists as well as cars etc and there will continue to be so as we have crowded roads and lots of people in a hurry. I have known many moterbikers who have crashed, some fatally and the usual reason is speed and loss of contol, nothing to do with hi viv or not. If you really want to make a difference with your story you would be better, in my opinion, to highlight the dangers of speed, not what you were wearing at the time.....
 
In fairness to Nikki, I feel that the very first post highlighted the high viz story as she wasn't sure how else to document it. However, I totally agree that speed is the factor more so than high viz, and we can continue to question what could have been. There are several points at fault here, and I think the learnings need to be taken from the total accident on all counts. What is sad for me is that it's taken 10 years to come out - it could have saved even 1 life in that time. I would be interested in seeing a national newspaper taking this forward - I appreciate it is very emotive for you Nikki, but if you could summon the strength to raise this as a campaign, it may be a positive focus for you moving forward?
In addition, I would like to know why you are worried at being found libel against the hospital by naming them. I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't want to be treated in the same hospital with that kind of negligence!
 
Why would a national newspaper, there's a clue in the title, be interested in something that happened 10 years ago and which one of the injured parties wanted to hush up ? We all know that accidents happen because people speed and don't concentrate....
 
It is only libel if the statement can be proved as false.

Came across a runner on my side of the road (technically correct I guess) in dark clothes, no reflectors, no lights on a national speed limit road, no street lights as outside development and no junction. Not sure he noticed me if I am honest and he needs to thank the combination of the car coming the opposite direction and him swerving something (assuming drain) for me to see him. That and I refuse to do 60mph because of hidden potholes :D

Just seems a slight mockery that it is a given that horseriders NEED to wear high-viz and insurance companies getting cute about us not wearing it if there is an accident, yet dog walkers, runners, cyclists seem to not have the same focus...
 
Dear Nikki, thank you for highlighting the issues here (also no pun intended) I totally understand what you are saying about the hi viz not making a difference in your particular case but that you wish for nobody else to suffer as you have and therefore that it is a great idea to wear it as it helps to minimise risk to some extent in many other scenarios. As I mentioned to you in an earlier post I am a district nurse and am out on the roads of rural suffolk and today I came around a corner to just be able to make out two horses and riders coming towards me. They were stunning horses, big and beautiful. Both riders in waxed jackets - one had an orange jumper on under her jacket which wasn't zipped to the top and it was this tiny glimpse of orange which stood out. Luckily I was driving slow and what with having you and your friend on my mind, I think I was probably even more vigilant than usual!

Just as an aside, 9 years ago, I went into premature labour - who was the first person I phoned in my panic?? Not the midwife or the labour ward (which would have made sense had I have been rational and clear headed) but my mum who lives in Spain! It was instinct to phone the one person I felt could make it all better for me.

Look at that photo of your beautiful girl and remember the best of times with her xx
 
bonny said:
Why would a national newspaper, there's a clue in the title, be interested in something that happened 10 years ago and which one of the injured parties wanted to hush up ? We all know that accidents happen because people speed and don't concentrate....
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You tell me bonny - why are the national newspapers intersested in the sex lives of TOWIE? I am not a journalist and wouldn't want to be one! I guess it depends on how much dirt they have to rake up on politicians, celebrities or other non description people - you probably need to ask them. However, I would say given the amount of deaths and mistakes with injuries within the NHS I would find the failings of a hospital particularly interesting and relevant right now, add to that mobile phones, speeding ( given the potential increase of the national speed limit), I don't see why it wouldn't be prudent for a national paper to review ... Over to you!
 
As a nation we are obsessed with celebrities and their personal lives, it sells papers as does any kind of sex scandal. An accident 10 years ago is hardly newsworthy and the failings or otherwise of the NHS 10 years ago is irrelevant too. How many accidents have happened in the 10 years since this one ? How many deaths ? I think we should drop this now, whatever happened it happened a long time ago and going round in circles isn't helping anybody.
 
lhotse said:
An RTA serious enough to paralyse a motorcyclist, kill a horse and injure their riders, plus close a road probably for several hours would most definitely have been picked up by the local media. I would have thought it to be local knowledge to horseriders in the area too.
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WRONG! What an assumption to make. About 10 years ago I was witness and first on the scene to a double fatality motorcycle accident where a couple in their 50's (who had grown-up children) were killed on their motorbike when a car pulled out in front of them, I was travelling behind. This was one of the most horrific experiences of my life. I called 999 from my mobile that I know - I had one of the big ones for work, I don't remember there being another number. I had to give evidence at the Coroners court but as the driver was going to make a guilty plea I didn't have to go to the Trial. I NEVER saw a single report of it in a newspaper local or otherwise. If it was there it certainly did not make big news.
 
I would never even consider leaving the yard without hi viz on but I have to say this story doesn't really sell the merits of wearing hi viz. It just highlights the dangers of speeding and riding on the roads IMHO.

I just worry those that are in the "I don't wear hi viz camp" would just read this and think well it didn't help in that situation so why bother? (arguably if the motorcyclist was looking down as they came round the bend there's no telling that the hi viz made much difference to their reaction times) Also to be honest I wear hi viz as I want to do everything possible to prevent my horse getting injured so if he were killed in an rta I wouldn't care two hoots what the police thought, though I imagine blame would come from crossing on a blind corner before not wearing hi viz?!

Whilst I also saw the inconsistencies in the story I don't think anyone would actually make something this horrific up.
 
intrigue said:
In fairness to Nikki, I feel that the very first post highlighted the high viz story as she wasn't sure how else to document it. However, I totally agree that speed is the factor more so than high viz, and we can continue to question what could have been. There are several points at fault here, and I think the learnings need to be taken from the total accident on all counts. What is sad for me is that it's taken 10 years to come out - it could have saved even 1 life in that time. I would be interested in seeing a national newspaper taking this forward - I appreciate it is very emotive for you Nikki, but if you could summon the strength to raise this as a campaign, it may be a positive focus for you moving forward?
In addition, I would like to know why you are worried at being found libel against the hospital by naming them. I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't want to be treated in the same hospital with that kind of negligence!
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I fully intend to, and thank you for your suggestions. It is very emotive for me, but my desire to make something positive come out of this whole horrible thing is stronger and more important than my feelings.

I cannot mention the hospital's name, mainly because the orthopaedic surgeon who was my Consultant was an extremely eminent and well-respected back surgeon. He could well take a claim against me, stating that his reputation has been ruined as many people in the hospital will remember me, even from 10 years ago. In addition, everyone who knows me here knows who this person was and is, so therefore through that route as well he could take out a case for defamation of character etc. etc. As an ex legal secretary, I know this to be true. The law of libel and slander is an interesting one too. To give an example ... after my accident, I could have gone to the papers, named the motorcyclist and stated publically that he was an absolute monster, horse murderer, totally wreckless, totally irresponsible, every emotional statement that you can think of. I could have stuck to the facts of the matter, facts all of which were true and were provable. HOWEVER ... and this is the interesting bit ... he could have taken out a case against me, the injured party, IF he could prove that despite the fact that my outburst was true, he had been driving wrecklessly, speeding, driving without due care and attention etc. etc., my reason for blackening his character in such a way WAS libellous because it was motivated by vindictiveness and a desire to deliberately get revenge upon him.

You have to be very very careful what you say and put into print - even if everything you say is true, you can still be taken to court for slander or libel.
 
GG2B said:
I would never even consider leaving the yard without hi viz on but I have to say this story doesn't really sell the merits of wearing hi viz. It just highlights the dangers of speeding and riding on the roads IMHO.

I just worry those that are in the "I don't wear hi viz camp" would just read this and think well it didn't help in that situation so why bother? (arguably if the motorcyclist was looking down as they came round the bend there's no telling that the hi viz made much difference to their reaction times) Also to be honest I wear hi viz as I want to do everything possible to prevent my horse getting injured so if he were killed in an rta I wouldn't care two hoots what the police thought, though I imagine blame would come from crossing on a blind corner before not wearing hi viz?!

Whilst I also saw the inconsistencies in the story I don't think anyone would actually make something this horrific up.
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The point is that had we not been wearing high viz, WE - the injured parties - would have been found to be partially liable. On top of my loss of horse, horrendous injuries, loss of job, etc. etc., don't you think that would have been just a tad too much to bear?

There is nothing I can do to prevent idiots on motorbikes speeding on country roads and lanes - all I can do is to highlight the importance of high viz, not just to make us easier to see and therefore keep us safer, but to ensure that we can never ever be found to be partially liable were we to be struck by a motorist. That motorist could claim that they couldn't see us if we were not wearing high viz.
 
Nikki J said:
I fully intend to, and thank you for your suggestions. It is very emotive for me, but my desire to make something positive come out of this whole horrible thing is stronger and more important than my feelings.

I cannot mention the hospital's name, mainly because the orthopaedic surgeon who was my Consultant was an extremely eminent and well-respected back surgeon. He could well take a claim against me, stating that his reputation has been ruined as many people in the hospital will remember me, even from 10 years ago. In addition, everyone who knows me here knows who this person was and is, so therefore through that route as well he could take out a case for defamation of character etc. etc. As an ex legal secretary, I know this to be true. The law of libel and slander is an interesting one too. To give an example ... after my accident, I could have gone to the papers, named the motorcyclist and stated publically that he was an absolute monster, horse murderer, totally wreckless, totally irresponsible, every emotional statement that you can think of. I could have stuck to the facts of the matter, facts all of which were true and were provable. HOWEVER ... and this is the interesting bit ... he could have taken out a case against me, the injured party, IF he could prove that despite the fact that my outburst was true, he had been driving wrecklessly, speeding, driving without due care and attention etc. etc., my reason for blackening his character in such a way WAS libellous because it was motivated by vindictiveness and a desire to deliberately get revenge upon him
You have to be very very careful what you say and put into print - even if everything you say is true, you can still be taken to court for slander or libel.
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Yes you can be taken to court if you name someone but if you can prove that your comments were true and not over embellished then it is not libel as the statement was fact but is up to you to judge whether you will be able to provide the evidence to support your claim. You can also say ' if I ever had an an accident I would not want to be taken to such and such hospital' as that is opinion and therefore not defamatory.
Also, for reasons to do with shelf life of forum threads, lies posted about people on forums are classed as slander rather than libel. :confused:
So nikki as a resident of the Daventry area if I were to ever have a horse riding accident round your way which hospital IN YOUR OPINION should I not visit the a + e of? ;)
 
Nikki J said:
The point is that had we not been wearing high viz, WE - the injured parties - would have been found to be partially liable.
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This is simply not the case.

That motorist could claim that they couldn't see us if we were not wearing high viz.
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They could claim anything they like. But given they were allegedly speeding and the weather conditions were good, with good visibility, where would be their case? As it is they didn't attempt to sue you for their injuries, so the only conclusion is it was his negligence that caused the accident - not yours.
 
Nikki J said:
Can't you read? What I actually said was that had we NOT been wearing high vis, and had we been on our phones, we would have been found PARTIALLY liable. In other words, the police, if they had wanted to be bar stewards, could have taken some sort of further action against us. In addition, our compensation claims would have been reduced by the % of which we were found liable.
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I don't get what mobile phones have to do with this whole incident? Was one of your party using one at the time of the accident? :confused:

It does seem ludicrous that the hospital and responsible drs would miss so many fractures. Standard policies following a potential neck/back injury would have you both scanned and X-rayed. They aren't taken lightly. They would have kept you on the backboard and neck brace in order to transfer you into the scanner without potentially worsening a fracture etc.
(At least, this is the policy at my local hospital and I imagine most to be similar as a means of precaution and avoiding more serious injuries and paralysis.)
 
Hmmm, not sure what to make of Nikki's story...I lived in Northamptonshire until 2004 and have not heard this story before.
It's impossible to 'keep stories out of the press', my own daughter was involved in a road accident when she was out riding and it was reported in the local press, yes this was in Northants.
She was also discharged from the local A&E after her horse flipped over backwards and landed on her, having been told there was "nothing wrong with her". As soon as she stood up she went green and passed out....she had broken her pelvis and 'X-ray' hadn't picked it up.....yes this was also in Northants and I don't mind naming and shaming , it was Northampton General Hospital.

So as far as I can see, some things add up, some don't, but I'm sure an accident that horrific would have hit the horsey jungledrums in no time at all, yet I don't know anybody from my friends in Northants who have heard of this accident. But why would anybody make it up, don't get that bit of it.
So perhaps it did happen but in a lesser way, I don't know, something about it is not right tho
 
I do get amazed when people who 'call out' a poster, mention 'glaring errors' and say 'something is not quite right'....

I have a philosophy of taking things at face value until proven otherwise and live and let live....

10 years ago is a long time. Maybe it's my age, but trying to think of being in music college 10 years ago is taking some doing! I remember lot's of course, but much is misty.....

Why would someone come on with such a horrific story for it not to be true? ....or am I looking looking rose-coloured glasses and being very naive about such things?
 
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