The lost art of following through with the hands.

[Auslander]

I've probably just got out of bed on the wrong side this morning, but this has been bothering me for a while!

We all have our moments - and I'll happily hold my hands up and admit to having got it completely wrong and taken a horses back teeth out over a fence on more than one occasion.

Looking at photos on here though, I see SO many pics of people jumping in non "Arggh" situations, yet their hands are still firmly fixed near the horses withers.

I've had it burned into my brain that hanging onto a horses back teeth over a fence is a crime punishable by death, and my automatic reaction if things go wrong is to chuck the reins at the horse and use my legs and set to keep myself in the plate. If its gone really really wrong, I grab a handful of mane half way up the neck to help my get my balance back, whilst interfering with the horses mouth as little as poss.
On the rare occasion that I haven't spectacularly naffed it up, my default hand position is just in front of the shoulder blade, about half way between the withers and the point of the shoulder. Straight line from the elbow to the horses mouth, one hand on either side of the neck, with a soft elbow so that the horse can take your hand forward if he needs to.

I also hate seeing hands half way up the crest of the neck, although I conceded that at least they are forward.

I'm sure a lot of it is to do with instability/insecurity, which seems to be a modern problem. I know I'm getting old, but it saddens me that health and safety seems to be killing off some of the things we used to do in the old days that resulted in secure seats and riders who didn't use their horses back teeth to balance over a fence.

Bring back bareback gridwork with no reins I say.

 

[Fleece Navidad]

I'm sure a lot of it is to do with instability/insecurity, which seems to be a modern problem. I know I'm getting old, but it saddens me that health and safety seems to be killing off some of the things we used to do in the old days that resulted in secure seats and riders who didn't use their horses back teeth to balance over a fence.

Bring back bareback gridwork with no reins I say.

I'd say you've hit the nail on the head here. I've never jumped bareback without reins, wasn't allowed in the yard, although we jumped without reins or stirrups, down grids with one stride to a 1-1.05 oxer at the end, so not really sure why we weren't allowed take off the saddles...and I have to say doing that taught us a lot about balance and using your leg.
Having said that, I was taught my jumping position properly, now I see kids being told to lean forward and they're not told to put their hands forward, so they're holding the saddle. I know holding the saddle will stop them taking out the back teeth, but when they stop holding the saddle, they've never learned to follow through with the hands.

I too will hold my hands up and say I've caught the pony in the mouth while jumping, but it's a rare occurrence, as I'll always try to slip the reins a bit, or grab the mane if I lose balance (or if I anticipate a big leap that I'm going to find difficult to sit, such as into water), but I'm not perfect so it does happen.

 

[sleepykitten]

I agree with you completely, I was always taught to give with my hands and where I was taught, if you jabbed a horse in the mouth while jumping, you were summarily booted off the yard for the rest of the day!

We were lunged over jumps with no reins, no stirrups and quite often, no saddle.

I don't do any jumping now, but if I did, I would have my RI's voice ringing clear in my mind telling me to get my hands forward!!

 

[ester]

I do it withers or crest
and hunch my shoulders at the same time, pony not that inclined to stretch over a fence much anyway though that might be a chicken and egg situation .

I didn't have much of a jumping education as a child, jumps were done in lessons on special occasions only and if you stayed on you were effective , nothing about what you were actually supposed to be doing.

We were working on it pre lameness with a fab new instructor, and turning my hands over worked quite bit! I would love to sort it out properly at some point when I have the time/funds for someone to sort me out as even then pics taken at home were nowhere as good as those taken in lessons

 

[Mare Stare]

Haha!

You've just reminded me of my non-horsey mother who, when watching AP McCoy come off before the GN race started yesterday, said "He should have hung onto the reins tighter!". I had to explain to her that reins are for steering only.

Completely agree with you btw.

 

[Auslander]

I do it withers or crest
and hunch my shoulders at the same time, pony not that inclined to stretch over a fence much anyway though that might be a chicken and egg situation .

I didn't have much of a jumping education as a child, jumps were done in lessons on special occasions only and if you stayed on you were effective , nothing about what you were actually supposed to be doing.

We were working on it pre lameness with a fab new instructor, and turning my hands over worked quite bit! I would love to sort it out properly at some point when I have the time/funds for someone to sort me out as even then pics taken at home were nowhere as good as those taken in lessons

A useful tip here! My grandfather used to use a block of show chalk (dampened) to draw a cross on each side of the horses neck - half way between the wither and the point of the shoulder, just in front of the shoulder blade. Our aim was to get chalk on our hands - because if we did, he'd give us a Murray Mint!

 

[Auslander]

and another thing!! Climbing up the neck to jump!

I have an automatic three stage process...

Push heels down, so that legs slide forward a tad
Slide bum backwards in the saddle
Shoulders down - which takes hands down the neck

Another pearl of grandfatherly wisdom "You don't both need to jump the bloody fence - and the horse is better at it"

 

[ester]

cor I'd do anything for a sweet

bum backwards needs more practice too in fact pretty much everything on your list . I can supply lots of demo photos!

 

[Fleece Navidad]

and another thing!! Climbing up the neck to jump!

I have an automatic three stage process...

Push heels down, so that legs slide forward a tad
Slide bum backwards in the saddle
Shoulders down - which takes hands down the neck

Another pearl of grandfatherly wisdom "You don't both need to jump the bloody fence - and the horse is better at it"

I'm guilty of this over bigger fences if I rush him, or more often out xc. I'm aware I do it though and once again, gridwork is brilliant for fixing it (and a pony who reminds me every so often that if I'm on his neck, he can't always help me if things go wrong).

 

[Auslander]

cor I'd do anything for a sweet

bum backwards needs more practice too in fact pretty much everything on your list . I can supply lots of demo photos!

Me too! Murray mints still taste of success to me 30 years on from when I was a little kid on a pony getting shouted at!

Go crazy with the photos -someone may have a comment/ suggestion that makes it click into place for you!

 

[Auslander]

I'm guilty of this over bigger fences if I rush him, or more often out xc. I'm aware I do it though and once again, gridwork is brilliant for fixing it (and a pony who reminds me every so often that if I'm on his neck, he can't always help me if things go wrong).

He sounds like a star! I learnt to keep my centre of balance behind the withers the hard way - riding an ex Grade A who really snapped up behind. It wasn't til I saw video that I realised that I was crawling up his neck like a monkey up a cannon - so the back end coming up was basically firing me upwards and outwards!

Going really techie now - but I always mentally picture the power from the back end coming in a straight line from the hocks to the withers. If your seat is slightly behind the point where the power comes through, you can sit on it. If you're too far forward, the power hits you right up the back side like a cannon ball.

 

[Fleece Navidad]

He sounds like a star! I learnt to keep my centre of balance behind the withers the hard way - riding an ex Grade A who really snapped up behind. It wasn't til I saw video that I realised that I was crawling up his neck like a monkey up a cannon - so the back end coming up was basically firing me upwards and outwards!

He is a great lad, but has given me a few sharp reminders which taught me to do my best to stay off his neck, nothing like a little wobble to remind you to sit up and look up. Having said that, it's probably because he gets such a shock when I come unstuck that he doesn't take advantage of me being off balance!

 

[dafthoss]

It depends on the horse though, mine if I lost all contact would not like it and would loose his confidence so my hands follow his mouth, when I rode fergie the other day he isnt like that so I found my self either slipping my reins when I had a handful of neckstrap or allowing my hands much further.

This one for example might not be text book but he certantly isnt having his teeth taken out.

 

[ester]

I wish I was nagged more in my formative years

oki dok, here we go. I have Santa Claus and LizzieJ to thank for most of the pics

this is an old one (5/6 years ago) think first year I had him, he does have a stop, drop left shoulder system but equally is a v good pony to put up with me at times!

This the stand up and rest hands on neck system

hands on neck

ooh this is a good one hunch shoulders and hands up neck

this is more recent last summer mid lessons!

then I turned my hands over but my shoulders started getting wayward

and this is as good as we got it in a lesson! (well that I have evidence for anyway!)

given that pony is likely to need to stick to hacking from now on I hate to think what I might be like when I ever get to go over a jump again! I do hope I can travel and get some schoolmaster sessions at some point.

 

[Auslander]

It depends on the horse though, mine if I lost all contact would not like it and would loose his confidence so my hands follow his mouth, when I rode fergie the other day he isnt like that so I found my self either slipping my reins when I had a handful of neckstrap or allowing my hands much further.

]

I think you misunderstood me - I'd happily use your photo to demonstrate "spot on"!! Perfection is a soft following contact that allows the horse to do whatever he needs with his head unimpeded. Chucking the reins away is for emergencies when the only choices are "no contact" or "removal of back teeth"!!

 

[Copperpot]

I am guilty of this too if I'm worried I'm gonna catch him I literally let go of the reins and pick them up when I land! Not ideal I know.

 

[Auslander]

I am guilty of this too if I'm worried I'm gonna catch him I literally let go of the reins and pick them up when I land! Not ideal I know.

Better that than jabbing him though!

 

[Auslander]

I wish I was nagged more in my formative years

oki dok, here we go. I have Santa Claus and LizzieJ to thank for most of the pics

given that pony is likely to need to stick to hacking from now on I hate to think what I might be like when I ever get to go over a jump again! I do hope I can travel and get some schoolmaster sessions at some point.

I think the pictures show a very natural progression towards what, in the last pic, is a nice secure, balanced position over a fence. I think you're over critical of yourself! Good work!

 

[Mince Pie]

I have this issue on my cob as he tends to rush into jumps, lose momentum about 3 strides out and then heave himself over fences.
Anything else that's actually forward to a fence (including the cob on a good day!) I'm OK with:
good

(jump was downhill)
bad

(I was very nervous about this - steep incline down with an upright half way down)

 

[Copperpot]

That was my thought! I am working on giving more with my hands. Even if it's too exaggerated to start with until I can do it consistently every time.

 

[Auslander]

That was my thought! I am working on giving more with my hands. Even if it's too exaggerated to start with until I can do it consistently every time.

If it's any consolation - I threw the reins away so exaggeratedly that they went straight over my horses head once, whilst cross country schooling! He then decided to do a happy dance after the fence, and I ended up half way up his neck trying to grab the bit rings to stop him. Not my finest hour!

 

[ester]

BBH its a ginger cob issue obv though we don't have a loss of momentum problem, well if we do it means the brakes are going on.

thanks Aus, I didn't show you some of the other pics from that lesson I think we were working on that we had to take it apart to get it a bit better and the taking apart led to some interesting shapes . It did also mean that if we got it 100% right then I could think about me and do an ok job. If he took a long one/chipped in I couldn't revert to what I would normally do so it tended to look much worse than normal .

Getting it right certainly got him jumping much better though and start to round properly (even at a stuck in ways 18 yo!). I let him do his own thing for a long time (he knew more than me ) and just went with him and kept him in the snaffle so if I did catch him I didn't feel so guilty. But with a stronger bit I got more of a say about approaching pace and take off spot

 

[Copperpot]

Oh dear! I'm lucky he has a long neck and seems to not care whether I actually have the reins of not lol. In fact if I have them long and do nothing with them we get a better jump. It's when I try to interfere and control the pace etc. I have decided that he knows best for now!

 

[dafthoss]

I think you misunderstood me - I'd happily use your photo to demonstrate "spot on"!! Perfection is a soft following contact that allows the horse to do whatever he needs with his head unimpeded. Chucking the reins away is for emergencies when the only choices are "no contact" or "removal of back teeth"!!

Sorry (and thanks) I'm far to used to people who want you to throw the reins at the pony before it even takes off so I have to justify keeping a contact through the air (not my instructor I might add just people that I know). I only tend to let go if I have hold of my neck strap and thats normally after take off and tends to have been a little intresting up to that point so would rather let the pony get on with it than take its teeth out for jumping.

 

[Kokopelli]

Auslander you seem full of advice so what would you recommend for me. I tend to do the give with hands too much because I'm worried about socking my horse in the teeth as he very often takes flyers into his fences and he has a stupidly long neck.

This doesn't look too bad because it's a bigger fence.

 

[horsemad32]

I have seen so many, supposedly 'good' riders with fixed hands over a fence. Or those that snatch back automatically as they go over. Better to give to much than too little, and I've taught my niece to slip the reins if it all goes bottoms up, just as I was taught to do as a child.

 

[Auslander]

Auslander you seem full of advice so what would you recommend for me. I tend to do the give with hands too much because I'm worried about socking my horse in the teeth as he very often takes flyers into his fences and he has a stupidly long neck.

You've got a nice light giving contact in this pic, so if this is how you usually find yourself over a fence, I wouldn't be too worried!

Too be hypercritical, your hands could be a tiny bit lower, so you have a straight line from elbow to mouth, but I really don't see much not to like in this pic.

The one thing I would say is that your lower leg is not very stable in this pic, and it looks like you are pivoting on your knee, which is could make you tip forward, rather than fold correctly - although to your credit, you don't look to be tipping. Sliding your heel down as you approach a fence will keep your leg underneath you, which will put you in a more solid position, from which it will be easier to make subtle readjustments where needed.

He's by no means an easy pony (Ive been watching your progress with great interest), and I think you're doing very well

 

[Kokopelli]

You've got a nice light giving contact in this pic, so if this is how you usually find yourself over a fence, I wouldn't be too worried!

Too be hypercritical, your hands could be a tiny bit lower, so you have a straight line from elbow to mouth, but I really don't see much not to like in this pic.

The one thing I would say is that your lower leg is not very stable in this pic, and it looks like you are pivoting on your knee, which is could make you tip forward, rather than fold correctly - although to your credit, you don't look to be tipping. Sliding your heel down as you approach a fence will keep your leg underneath you, which will put you in a more solid position, from which it will be easier to make subtle readjustments where needed.

He's by no means an easy pony (Ive been watching your progress with great interest), and I think you're doing very well

If it's any help here's a link to the hole sequence.

Thank you he isn't easy but so much fun so it's worth it.

I have been working on my lower leg (lots of lunge lessons) will definitely put my heel down. I do it into a lot of fences when I think about it but quite often forget, suppose I just gotta keep going until it becomes second nature. Cheers for the advice.

 

[flump]

would be intrested to know what you think of my jumping, i know its not perfect,

Taken on lots of very different horses, so if you want any back ground on the horse let me know!

 

[ester]

Its interesting to click through some of the others after you koko 945/952 are a bit