The lost art of following through with the hands.

[flump]

Its interesting to click through some of the others after you koko 945/952 are a bit

feel a bit more secure about my lower leg issues now!

 

[Auslander]

Thank you he isn't easy but so much fun so it's worth it.

I have been working on my lower leg (lots of lunge lessons) will definitely put my heel down. I do it into a lot of fences when I think about it but quite often forget, suppose I just gotta keep going until it becomes second nature. Cheers for the advice.

Interesting to see the who sequence - as I suspected, you are pivoting a bit off your knee, losing the lower leg, and climbing up his neck a bit to compensate. I can also now see why you said that you throw the reins at him!

I reckon, because he's a quick pony, that you're getting a bit over excited yourself, and throwing heart and soul into sharing the "Wahey" with him. It looks like he takes a flier, so you take a flier - and you both end up a bit spreadeagled!

Really hard to make useful contributions via an online forum, but if you were one of my victims, I would be working very hard on getting the approach right. If he could be persuaded to be a little less gung ho (without losing his enthusiasm) you would have more time to get yourself organised in terms of "Heels down, bum back, shoulders down, hands follow". It's very hard to be subtle when you're having to do everything at a million miles an hour just to keep up with him!!

 

[coss]

Its interesting to click through some of the others after you koko 945/952 are a bit

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

TBH Im more likely to throw the reins at a horse over a fence than to take its teeth out, My last horse if you socked him in the mouth you were off as soon as his back feet hit the ground on the other side

With my back my jumping position isnt amazing and my feet slide back a bit over fences but this is getting better

Im a person who that as long as I aint interfereing with the horse over a fence Im happy, regardless of what I look like as not even the prof's look amazing at every fence

 

[Copperpot]

Right I am off XC schooling now. Heels down, bum back, shoulders down, hands follow! This will be my mantra as I go round!! Oh and WAIT for him to jump as my OH helpfully shouts!!

 

[Kokopelli]

Its interesting to click through some of the others after you koko 945/952 are a bit

I think some of the moments are because the course was built bloody huge so most people (including me) were bricking themselves.

That's why some of my photos aren't that pretty, I kind of went "oh go on Andy you can do this I'll just sit here and make it look like I'm being useful"

Luckily he's genuine.

Thanks for the fab advice Auslander, we've been really working on getting him less gungho so to speak. We have good days where we're in control so I can think about my position and then we have days where I'm pretty sure I'm sat on a racehorse again.

 

[Auslander]

would be intrested to know what you think of my jumping, i know its not perfect,

Taken on lots of very different horses, so if you want any back ground on the horse let me know!

The first step towards improving is knowing that you need to! There's work to be done, but its not bad - don't worry!

You're another who gets a bit in front of the movement, loses the lower leg and pivots on the knee. It's interesting as a trainer, as I can see a theme emerging.

As I said earlier in my brief moment of techiness - imagine the power coming from the hock to the wither. If you're directly over where the power emerges, you're going to get fired forwards. If you can get the lower leg forward, and your bum further back, you'll be balanced over your centre of gravity, slightly behind the power exit, and it'll be much easier to sit, fold and allow your hands to follow the horses mouth.

Nice horses BTW! I'd be interested to know how forward they are, as these photos make it look like they've arrived at the fence without much oomph, which doesn't help matters. Number three is the best picture imo - yuo look nicely balanced and the horse is jumping fluently. I can see where your lower leg is, but I'm pretending I haven't, as the rest is pretty good!!

Sometimes it can help to approach a fence with your hands low and wide (careful not to pull back - think soft elbows) and focus on getting your shoulders down over the fence. The low and wide hands makes it impossible for you to use them to balance on, so you have to get your bum back and your shoulders down if you don't want to fall off! thinking xhoulders down, rather than hands forward tends to result in nice soft hands, which naturally go with the horses movement.

 

[Auslander]

Right I am off XC schooling now. Heels down, bum back, shoulders down, hands follow! This will be my mantra as I go round!! Oh and WAIT for him to jump as my OH helpfully shouts!!

And don't throw the reins straight over horses head!

 

[Auslander]

I think some of the moments are because the course was built bloody huge so most people (including me) were bricking themselves.

That's why some of my photos aren't that pretty, I kind of went "oh go on Andy you can do this I'll just sit here and make it look like I'm being useful"

Luckily he's genuine.

Thanks for the fab advice Auslander, we've been really working on getting him less gungho so to speak. We have good days where we're in control so I can think about my position and then we have days where I'm pretty sure I'm sat on a racehorse again.

I know where you're coming from! My party trick is to decide that I can't wait any longer for take off, whack my leg on and get my hands forward (shut my eyes if its a big fence!), which almost always results in horse thinking "Holy Crap, whats she doing - better take a flier at it" and taking off a stride early!

 

[flump]

The first step towards improving is knowing that you need to! There's work to be done, but its not bad - don't worry!

You're another who gets a bit in front of the movement, loses the lower leg and pivots on the knee. It's interesting as a trainer, as I can see a theme emerging.

As I said earlier in my brief moment of techiness - imagine the power coming from the hock to the wither. If you're directly over where the power emerges, you're going to get fired forwards. If you can get the lower leg forward, and your bum further back, you'll be balanced over your centre of gravity, slightly behind the power exit, and it'll be much easier to sit, fold and allow your hands to follow the horses mouth.

Nice horses BTW! I'd be interested to know how forward they are, as these photos make it look like they've arrived at the fence without much oomph, which doesn't help matters. Number three is the best picture imo - yuo look nicely balanced and the horse is jumping fluently. I can see where your lower leg is, but I'm pretending I haven't, as the rest is pretty good!!

Sometimes it can help to approach a fence with your hands low and wide (careful not to pull back - think soft elbows) and focus on getting your shoulders down over the fence. The low and wide hands makes it impossible for you to use them to balance on, so you have to get your bum back and your shoulders down if you don't want to fall off! thinking xhoulders down, rather than hands forward tends to result in nice soft hands, which naturally go with the horses movement.

Thankyou, I havent jumped for a while but will be using this when i do start jumping again!

Pics 2,3,4 are of a schoolmaster type who is so very very honest but lacks so much oomph over fences, and in general.
Pics 1 is of my old tb who sadly pts last year but that was one of the nicest jumps he'd ever done!
Pic 5 is an old pic of a horse who wouldnt jump and that pic was taken after about 4 weeks of solid trying and we finally anaged to jump I fell off about 10 times due to cat leaps, run outs etc etc...i believe he jumps in his new home though so must of done something right!
Pic 6 is an eventer who used to be at work, the event guy left so I was left to play untill a knew home was found, he was too much power for me so i never really let him 'go' over a fence and mainly jumped from trot and only allowing a canter a few strides out.

I do have lower leg issues but think that will improve as i lose more weight. I feel like i collapse on them sometimes, Im currently getting my self and my windy tb fit and confident enough for jumping again and notice you are (maybe ) near me- berks- Do you do lessons?!!!

 

[Auslander]

Thankyou, I havent jumped for a while but will be using this when i do start jumping again!

I do have lower leg issues but think that will improve as i lose more weight. I feel like i collapse on them sometimes, Im currently getting my self and my windy tb fit and confident enough for jumping again and notice you are (maybe ) near me- berks- Do you do lessons?!!!

Good for you for identifying that you need to address a few things.

I do - drop me a PM and we can sort something out.

 

[flump]

Good for you for identifying that you need to address a few things.

I do - drop me a PM and we can sort something out.

Pm'd you- thankyou

 

[JFTDWS]

Aus I could keep you occupied for hours with my jp flaws I just panic and go into *cling on and hope for the best* mode. I tend to chuck the reins at him, which is insane as I don't have much of a contact on the way into fences to start with. Epic fail!

 

[ISHmad]

Havent read all the posts but whilst ordinarily you would follow the movement with your hands, you can also give by opening your fingers. So maybe people aren't holding on as tight as you might think OP?

 

[cambrica]

Thank you OP for a very interesting thread. Been a few years since I have done any jumping and at present my horses are either too young or too old (luckily for them !! ) but I now have 2 very keen kids that have this easter break decided that jumping is fun so your advice is greatly received.

This is a photo of my neice who has only just started jumping in the last 2 weeks, not a good angle I know and a bit tricky as the pony is only 11.2 but any advice here would be welcome.

 

[Jesstickle]

I think my hands are ok, but my lower leg is somewhat interesting and I know I get horribly infront of the movement. I do it enough on the flat but over a fence it can become ridiculous! I've given up though. After years of nagging I still can't do anything about it so have reached the conclusion I am just hopeless

yucky legs ( I don't own them so can't post the photo, only the link!)

http://www.photographybyrobmorris.c...pg&watermark=%A9%20photographybyrobmorris.com

http://www.photographybyrobmorris.c...pg&watermark=%A9%20photographybyrobmorris.com

http://www.photographybyrobmorris.c...pg&watermark=%A9%20photographybyrobmorris.com

And a video too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URtB1RVs5tY&list=UUxFfSyMkfhYDIib2u30aOcg&index=8&feature=plcp

 

[Auslander]

Havent read all the posts but whilst ordinarily you would follow the movement with your hands, you can also give by opening your fingers. So maybe people aren't holding on as tight as you might think OP?

But But But...

I didn't say "holding on tight" - I was banging on about failing to follow the natural movements that a horse needs to make in order to jump a fence in the best form possible for that particular horse. if you watch how a horse moves his head and neck to jump, you will see how it is impossible to give sufficiently just by opening the fingers - unless the hands are already forward. There needs to be softness in the elbow, and forward movement.

Opening your fingers just enables you to slip the reins - which is better than a sock in the teeth, but not as good as following with the hands. This is just my opinion though...

 

[Kaylum]

I was taught push your hands up the mane towards the ears. I hate to see riders holding on to the reins, hold onto the neck strap if your learning to jump and totally drop the reins (was taught this as well)

 

[Auslander]

I think my hands are ok, but my lower leg is somewhat interesting and I know I get horribly infront of the movement. I do it enough on the flat but over a fence it can become ridiculous! I've given up though. After years of nagging I still can't do anything about it so have reached the conclusion I am just hopeless

Your hands are mostly lovely though, and he doesn't appear to care what you're doing. so I wouldn't worry too much! I've looked at the vid, and the thing that strikes me is that it would be far easier if you cantered into the fences. I can't see a stride for toffee jumping out of trot, and find it a million times easier to be balanced and effective jumping from canter. He's quite relaxed about his jumping, so might benefit from slightly more pony club approach!

 

[nikCscott]

Must admit i am the worse for over egging it but i hold my own weight and hardly if ever catch the mouth, my WB has a 'big' backend when jumping and sometimes if your not out of the saddle- you soon will be!

Out hunting or XC my old instructors shrill words of 'always the neck strap- NEVER the mouth' ring through me!

I see so many one handed hunting shot of horses in gags on bottom loop - makes me want to cry!

 

[Auslander]

Aus I could keep you occupied for hours with my jp flaws I just panic and go into *cling on and hope for the best* mode. I tend to chuck the reins at him, which is insane as I don't have much of a contact on the way into fences to start with. Epic fail!

If it works for you - it can't be so bad. I like seeing pics of your 'alternative' style...

You should see me trying to ride with style and elegance - i'm not known as Wobble and Flop for nothing!!

 

[Auslander]

Thank you OP for a very interesting thread. Been a few years since I have done any jumping and at present my horses are either too young or too old (luckily for them !! ) but I now have 2 very keen kids that have this easter break decided that jumping is fun so your advice is greatly received.

This is a photo of my neice who has only just started jumping in the last 2 weeks, not a good angle I know and a bit tricky as the pony is only 11.2 but any advice here would be welcome.

Nothing really to say here - if she's only been jumping a few weeks, she doing very well! Hoicking the stirrups up a bit wouldn't hurt, but all in all, looking pretty good

 

[Auslander]

I was taught push your hands up the mane towards the ears. I hate to see riders holding on to the reins, hold onto the neck strap if your learning to jump and totally drop the reins (was taught this as well)

Different strokes for different folks - I don't like this technique as I feel that it causes a block in the contact, but it works for many people who are far better than me.

Agree with the second comment totally!

 

[Auslander]

Must admit i am the worse for over egging it but i hold my own weight and hardly if ever catch the mouth, my WB has a 'big' backend when jumping and sometimes if your not out of the saddle- you soon will be!

Out hunting or XC my old instructors shrill words of 'always the neck strap- NEVER the mouth' ring through me!

I see so many one handed hunting shot of horses in gags on bottom loop - makes me want to cry!

You'll totally understand my earlier comments about being the monkey in the cannon then!!

Neckstraps FTW! I'd rather go out riding with no pants on than no neckstrap!

 

[TheSylv007]

Not sure if the picture link has worked but I was quite pleased with my position on this one (even if the jump was weeeeny!). Not sure if I am right to be happy though, lower leg's a little back...

 

[rhino]

Looking at photos on here though, I see SO many pics of people jumping in non "Arggh" situations, yet their hands are still firmly fixed near the horses withers.

Have you been looking at my fb photos by any chance?

I'm the 'master' of dodgy crest release combined with an amazingly unstable lower leg

For some reason I have never been able to jump the chestnut very 'classically' yet with anything else I look a lot better (though still fairly cr@p) Am I beyond hope?

ETA as the jumps get bigger, I tend to look better. Well, slightly less awful anyway

 

[Holly Hocks]

A pretty appalling example of my jumping ability - on the plus side he's definitely not getting socked in the mouth - on the downside I think I'm jumping the fence for him - if he'd refused it could have been interesting...

 

[GinaGeo]

I think you must have been watching me!

Having ridden some seriously dirty stoppers in the past, the sort, that take off, change their minds and land again, my seat is rather on the defensive side Having not done much competing over the last two years, and thus having no photos of me jumping, I was rather mortified by rather awful lower leg, and hanging on hands...! It's seriously being worked on! This was taken a couple of weekends ago.

I have pictures of me when I was younger reaching for ears... Talk about one extreme to the other!

 

[Lolo]

There's also the thing that a photo is a snapshot of a whole course. I tend to look fairly decent over fences- I need to give more, but I would spread my hands on the neck so the fact my hands weren't very forwards didn't matter that much.

I know I need to drop my heel as well, but usually that was ok. My worst habit was looking down!

But my actual riding between the fences was poor- I'd rather see a less than perfect moment in time with the overall round looking smooth and neat than what I had to offer!

 

[Auslander]

Not sure if the picture link has worked but I was quite pleased with my position on this one (even if the jump was weeeeny!). Not sure if I am right to be happy though, lower leg's a little back...

Little bit - but the line from elbow to mouth is lovely, and you look pretty balanced. I tend to look t pics and thing "What would happen if the horse slammed the brakes on as he landed" I reckon you'd be ok!