The Ozzy Diaries

Fransurrey said:
With regards to clicker training, whilst food is the most often used primary reinforcer, you might find that with Ozzy that scratches work just as well, especially as he's such an itchy boy. Get thee a good back scratcher or a shedding blade works well, and use that to reward him, on his most favoured scratchy spot (withers, shoulder, NOT rump unless you enjoy a horse arse in your face!).

With regards to the lapse in behaviour, consider 'spontaneous recovery'. Very common in rehabbing and training. Those habits have had up to 8 years to form, so you can expect the occasional 'regression' after 'extinction' of the behaviour (biting). The triggers for some of those behaviours won't ever go away (close proximity of another horse at feed time in this case), but he's being taught how to deal with those scenarios or that it's not necessary to react. Spontaneous recovery behaviours normally become less and less frequent, but the possibility is always there, especially in new environments and I wouldn't read too much into his biting, particularly in these early stages. You're doing grand! 😍
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From the short time he was with me and allowed me to get close I can say he loved a scratch at the top of his withers at the bottom of his neck. He would pull the funniest faces lol.
 
nutjob said:
This horse has been on a yard with a bad reputation. One of the staff looks identical to someone with a 10 year ban for horse abuse so it's highly likely his behaviour has been caused by previous ill treatment. It's also possible that he's in some level of discomfort either from legs or other issues but OP is having issues getting a vet to visit.

My biter has also stopped biting without the need to be hit in the face so it is possible.
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Sounds like the same person who worked at the yard where Ozzy came from, she also had a ban from owning horses. But Ozzy wasn't at that yard long enough for her to cause his issues he was only there 24 hours.
 
nutjob said:
This horse has been on a yard with a bad reputation. One of the staff looks identical to someone with a 10 year ban for horse abuse so it's highly likely his behaviour has been caused by previous ill treatment. It's also possible that he's in some level of discomfort either from legs or other issues but OP is having issues getting a vet to visit.

My biter has also stopped biting without the need to be hit in the face so it is possible.
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Glad you got yours sorted. He was smacked on the muzzle , not hit in the face. I'm not liking how people are using their own words, not the ones in the post. A wack is different from a punch, from a hitting in the face. Please stop changing the whole feel of my post.
 
nutjob said:
Grim.
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Its no wonder there are so many awful and rude horses about. Are you happy for your horse to bite you? This horse made an absolute mess of my friends stomach by biting her when she was holding him. I cannot understand why anyone would want to deal with a horse like that on a daily basis?? One telling off from a trainer solved the issue. It was made clear, once, that biting is not acceptable. What would you have done, given him a pat and a kiss and told him it's OK, you didn't do that much damage this time, I will give you another chance....and maybe next time I hopefully won't loose my fingers. I won't accept in any circumstance that it's OK for a horse to bite like that.
 
AutumnDays said:
A bit off topic, but do you remove the netting from the bale before/after/at all when using the hay bell? It looks like something I should be thinking of investing in after the amount of hay that I lost to the wind for my three last year!
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We removed the (fine plastic) netting from the bale and then put a giant bale haynet over the whole thing. I was advised to do this by my EP, who said that the net massively reduces wastage.
This was a big investment but I think there are so many advantages. Even when we just had AJ and Snoopy, I was never happy that AJ would push Snoopy off his net during the winter months - at 26, Snoopy has a hard enough time keeping any weight on and being deprived of forage really worried me. The addition of Ozzy - a food aggressive horse - meant that the haybell was an obvious choice for us!
 
Can I just say that I'm sorry if yesterday's post has sparked an argument about 'correction' for horses that bite.
I know that it's a very controversial topic and forum searches on previous discussions about biters shows this.
Although we've not owned a biter before, I've been around biters...some owners/trainers chose to punish physically, some didn't. In one case, the owner lost her temper, hit the horse repeatedly and consequently gained a super-headshy horse. In another case, an instructor gave a slap across the mouth and the owner reported that it had worked with that particular horse. As far as I can see, there is no single method that is guaranteed to work with all. We are choosing to avoid physical chastisement with Ozzy; it is still early days for him. But I do think manners are incredibly important and we aren't going to accept this sort of behaviour in the long term.

This is a relatively recent issue; he was brilliant with the EP and doesn't try to bite when being tacked up. It's possible that he bit OH last week because he was finding the groundwork a little challenging. I probably over-reacted a little yesterday because it was very distressing for me to see and hear AJ squealing in pain. It never ceases to amaze me how horses can be so brutal to each other and then seemingly be OK with each other afterwards.

Anyway, I wanted to apologise for raising what is clearly a contentious issue. I can only say that the dynamics in the field are very different today, so Ozzy's behaviour towards AJ was almost certainly related to his food aggression. We will approach the next groundwork session with a bit more knowledge and preparation!
 
I think you have to be a special type of person to be able to manage a thread like this, to be able to show the good and the bad, and you are doing a great job! We all know that there are always going to be at least two ways of doing everything in the horsey world, just as there is in parenting, and you will never please everyone all the time. I am so glad that Ozzy ended up with you and I am, for one, thoroughly invested in Ozzy's slow introduction to a proper horsey home and love getting the updates.
 
Thanks @Nancykitt, it was the fine netting I was querying! I was going to invest in a large bale net to put on the on a cattle cradle feeder nicked off the cows, but the bell looks much nicer!
Congratulations on doing such a fab job with Ozzy, and for sharing all the good and bad so honestly, especially as we all know in the horse way there's always going to be a view/method that differs, and opinions can be strong. Rooting for you down in this far flung corner of west Wales!
 
I love the idea of giving horses 24/7 access to hay. Unfortunately, my girls would just eat an entire round bale in a week if they had access!

(I tried to feed Saus ad lib over winter and she just didn’t self-regulate. Suffice to say, she was plumper than she should’ve been coming out of winter.)
 
Nancykitt said:
I'm going to be honest and say that if it was me - and it was a surprise - I would probably have done an 'automatic' single slap reaction without even thinking about it.
OH's reaction left Ozzy in no doubt that biting is not acceptable. We'll see how he is during his next groundwork session.


This morning the three of them look as if they've been to an all-night party. The novelty of the haybell will wear off eventually I'm sure but it's almost as if they're scared to leave it in case it magically disappears. Ozzy in particular is a very pleasant character this morning!
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I wonder if it’s simply a case that he’s been with you just long enough to let his guard down a bit. He’s testing the boundaries, and found that that boundary didn’t move (ie he couldn’t dominate your OH).
Maybe he’ll accept that
Maybe he’ll test again.
I guess you need to keep the boundaries very clear and keep yourself safe.
 
Nancykitt said:
Can I just say that I'm sorry if yesterday's post has sparked an argument about 'correction' for horses that bite.
I know that it's a very controversial topic and forum searches on previous discussions about biters shows this.
Although we've not owned a biter before, I've been around biters...some owners/trainers chose to punish physically, some didn't. In one case, the owner lost her temper, hit the horse repeatedly and consequently gained a super-headshy horse. In another case, an instructor gave a slap across the mouth and the owner reported that it had worked with that particular horse. As far as I can see, there is no single method that is guaranteed to work with all. We are choosing to avoid physical chastisement with Ozzy; it is still early days for him. But I do think manners are incredibly important and we aren't going to accept this sort of behaviour in the long term.

This is a relatively recent issue; he was brilliant with the EP and doesn't try to bite when being tacked up. It's possible that he bit OH last week because he was finding the groundwork a little challenging. I probably over-reacted a little yesterday because it was very distressing for me to see and hear AJ squealing in pain. It never ceases to amaze me how horses can be so brutal to each other and then seemingly be OK with each other afterwards.

Anyway, I wanted to apologise for raising what is clearly a contentious issue. I can only say that the dynamics in the field are very different today, so Ozzy's behaviour towards AJ was almost certainly related to his food aggression. We will approach the next groundwork session with a bit more knowledge and preparation!
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I don't think you over reacted to the biting at all especially if it's not something you have encountered before. It can be a shock. And I also agree that's it's not something you want long term. As for them being okay with each other being awful to one another animals are much more forgiving than we are.
 
Flowerofthefen said:
Glad you got yours sorted. He was smacked on the muzzle , not hit in the face. I'm not liking how people are using their own words, not the ones in the post. A wack is different from a punch, from a hitting in the face. Please stop changing the whole feel of my post.
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For goodness sake, a pro boxer would be lucky to land a punch in a horse’s mouth, anyone else would just be lucky not to split their knuckles on its teeth! Of course you didn’t, the interpretation is for emotive effect, purely. And, the action was entirely effective - good.
These other tales are astounding - one person’s horse biting, even drawing blood, for two years, someone else’s horse treating them like a chew toy, someone else ten years down the line is able to take hay into the field, someone else actually expressing distress that the pony got nastily bitten, but not that the husband did.... ad infinitum. They are entertaining to read out, OH thinks I make them up, but it’s serious stuff.
Ultimately, if owners are prepared to tolerate being bitten, pushed around, kicked, generally disrespected - that’s their prerogative (there’s even a subculture where people pay good money to experience pain and humiliation, each to their own), but most horses also have to be handled at some stage by others; vets, farriers, dentists, trainers, grooms etc; and it’s simply irresponsible to permit any horse to treat any human just like they might another horse. Biting is extremely dangerous!
Forget your own injuries, it does no horse any favours, especially not if you ever need to part with it.
Unless, of course, it is only the owners / posters that these animals actually do disrespect and bite?
Anyway, hopefully Nancy and husband will get going with this cob as soon as possible, a three hour trek round the Scottish coast - and the thing he’ll want to bite is grass.
 
I’m not sure Nancy really needs a handbags session amongst the readers. Perhaps y’all could agree to disagree or start another thread to have a ‘last word’ competition. No I’m not in charge on here, it’s just a thought.
I would hate NancyK to stop updating a warts and all record. Just because we would do things differently or not is not the point perhaps?
 
I am mentioning this as an aside.

I had a horse that was seriously affected by changes in the barometer pressure. It got so that my other equines became wary and would not trust him. Every time the pressure dropped he attacked the other horses, never people though. I think it gave him serious headaches and was the main reason that I had him put down.
 
rabatsa said:
I am mentioning this as an aside.

I had a horse that was seriously affected by changes in the barometer pressure. It got so that my other equines became wary and would not trust him. Every time the pressure dropped he attacked the other horses, never people though. I think it gave him serious headaches and was the main reason that I had him put down.
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I've always wondered about headaches in horses!
 
rabatsa said:
I am mentioning this as an aside.

I had a horse that was seriously affected by changes in the barometer pressure. It got so that my other equines became wary and would not trust him. Every time the pressure dropped he attacked the other horses, never people though. I think it gave him serious headaches and was the main reason that I had him put down.
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This is obviously very sad - but I can imagine that some horses are affected by changes in barometric pressure.

We tend to take things one day at a time with Ozzy - and today is a good day for him.
Jasmine2023 said:
As for them being okay with each other being awful to one another animals are much more forgiving than we are.
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Aren't they just? AJ doesn't seem to bear any grudges at all. I don't think I would so easily forgive someone who did that to me!
 
Nancykitt said:
Can I just say that I'm sorry if yesterday's post has sparked an argument about 'correction' for horses that bite.
I know that it's a very controversial topic and forum searches on previous discussions about biters shows this.
Although we've not owned a biter before, I've been around biters...some owners/trainers chose to punish physically, some didn't. In one case, the owner lost her temper, hit the horse repeatedly and consequently gained a super-headshy horse. In another case, an instructor gave a slap across the mouth and the owner reported that it had worked with that particular horse. As far as I can see, there is no single method that is guaranteed to work with all. We are choosing to avoid physical chastisement with Ozzy; it is still early days for him. But I do think manners are incredibly important and we aren't going to accept this sort of behaviour in the long term.

This is a relatively recent issue; he was brilliant with the EP and doesn't try to bite when being tacked up. It's possible that he bit OH last week because he was finding the groundwork a little challenging. I probably over-reacted a little yesterday because it was very distressing for me to see and hear AJ squealing in pain. It never ceases to amaze me how horses can be so brutal to each other and then seemingly be OK with each other afterwards.

Anyway, I wanted to apologise for raising what is clearly a contentious issue. I can only say that the dynamics in the field are very different today, so Ozzy's behaviour towards AJ was almost certainly related to his food aggression. We will approach the next groundwork session with a bit more knowledge and preparation!
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Don't you dare apologise for posting about YOUR ongoing experiences with YOUR new horse for whom YOU started this thread (please).

We are here to read/share/learn about your experiences with Ozzy because we are interested in them, and that covers all of it, controversial or otherwise.

And thank you for continuing to share them 🥰
 
Nancykitt said:
Sometimes he will allow us to brush his legs, sometimes he snatches. I can try using the comb and scissors approach, he seemed to dislike the snipping noise (what a sensitive soul!)
I did think about using one of those mane combs with a razor incorporated. I haven't got one but if I can get a cheap one it might be worth a try!
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Have you tried having the radio blaring away? I have used this on several occasions when clipping/trimming sensitive souls, just need to work out their preferred music!
 
I just decided not to get involved with the bitey business (literally and metaphorically). I don’t want to sidetrack a good thread.

I also think that his chomping could indicate that he is becoming more confident. Hopefully, he now knows biting people isn’t acceptable, but there is a silver lining there.

You’re doing a fab job, and the results speak for themselves 😄
 
I would put the noise on at a safe distance, observe his reaction and gradually move closer over a period of time, like a week and let him see one of the others have a pretending bit clipped off
 
HaplessHorse said:
I just decided not to get involved with the bitey business (literally and metaphorically). I don’t want to sidetrack a good thread.

I also think that his chomping could indicate that he is becoming more confident. Hopefully, he now knows biting people isn’t acceptable, but there is a silver lining there.

You’re doing a fab job, and the results speak for themselves 😄
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I think that's a good point with regards to the biting and his confidence levels getting better. It's obviously something you don't want to continue though. I reckon he will stop it's early days.
 
Exasperated said:
For goodness sake, a pro boxer would be lucky to land a punch in a horse’s mouth, anyone else would just be lucky not to split their knuckles on its teeth! Of course you didn’t, the interpretation is for emotive effect, purely. And, the action was entirely effective - good.
These other tales are astounding - one person’s horse biting, even drawing blood, for two years, someone else’s horse treating them like a chew toy, someone else ten years down the line is able to take hay into the field, someone else actually expressing distress that the pony got nastily bitten, but not that the husband did.... ad infinitum. They are entertaining to read out, OH thinks I make them up, but it’s serious stuff.
Ultimately, if owners are prepared to tolerate being bitten, pushed around, kicked, generally disrespected - that’s their prerogative (there’s even a subculture where people pay good money to experience pain and humiliation, each to their own), but most horses also have to be handled at some stage by others; vets, farriers, dentists, trainers, grooms etc; and it’s simply irresponsible to permit any horse to treat any human just like they might another horse. Biting is extremely dangerous!
Forget your own injuries, it does no horse any favours, especially not if you ever need to part with it.
Unless, of course, it is only the owners / posters that these animals actually do disrespect and bite?
Anyway, hopefully Nancy and husband will get going with this cob as soon as possible, a three hour trek round the Scottish coast - and the thing he’ll want to bite is grass.
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Surely give it a rest now, Nancy vented about new horse after a bad day, this has been one incident of biting and it doesn’t sound like blood was shed. Some are pro hitting /others are not , this argument isn’t going to change anyone’s opinions.
 
rabatsa said:
I am mentioning this as an aside.

I had a horse that was seriously affected by changes in the barometer pressure. It got so that my other equines became wary and would not trust him. Every time the pressure dropped he attacked the other horses, never people though. I think it gave him serious headaches and was the main reason that I had him put down.
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Quite interesting. I am a human barometer but never thought about the equine version....
 
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