The sacked horse hitting ex teacher is going to court

[Gallop_Away]

It doesn't matter a jot whether the sabs were being intimidating or not.

It may not matter in your opinion but it could make every difference to her defence and the opinion of the jury.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

You have been condemning Sarah Moulds all the way through this thread for hitting her horse on the head a few times on camera, and yet as TPO showed you, you have told us yourself that you hit your horse on the head (that's where his nose is) 100s of times. Personally I feel that it is wrong to hit a horse anywhere on the head *once*

I should also add that the horses muzzle (nose/mouth) is the most sensitive part of the horse's head, so most likely to feel pain if it is hit.

 

[Gallop_Away]

How does intimidation lead to you kicking and slapping your horse? And if you feel intimidated why leave a child and pony unattended?

I'm not saying I agree with this line of thinking, but I agree with the previous posters who have said that they think her defense barrister will use this argument, that she felt intimidated by sabs who were masked and filming her and her children, and she acted out of panic/distress or whatever you want to call it, trying to get out of there as quickly as possible.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I will probably get loads of hate for this, but here goes…..imagine you are being filmed by a load of balaclava clad sabs. Worried and stressed about how your kid might feel about this and then the pony runs off when kid is trying to load it. Instinct kicks in thinking about what might happen if said pony gets loose on road and sadly you discipline it in a way that you wouldn’t usually, but said balaclava clad sabs have un-nerved you and made you act out of character. The rest is history and you regret forever. Pony is not harmed physically or psychologically but your world falls in and you lose everything. Maybe think about this before condemning her. I don’t know her but have seen sabs in action. Not condoning her actions but they are pretty intimidating and scary. Maybe if their faces weren’t covered they wouldn’t be so scary, but they apparently are allowed to remain anonymous…..

Janietee has worded it much better than I x

 

[YorksG]

Given the behaviour of some sabs, then I think she may well be able to use the "intimidation " defence. I saw on Facebook, this week, a photograph, on a sabs page,of a woman at a meet,eating a sausage roll, the vile and extremely personal comments were astonishing. Nothing whatsoever to do with illegal hunting.

 

[Birker2020]

You have been condemning Sarah Moulds all the way through this thread for hitting her horse on the head a few times on camera, and yet as TPO showed you, you have told us yourself that you hit your horse on the head (that's where his nose is) 100s of times. Personally I feel that it is wrong to hit a horse anywhere on the head *once*

Firstly I don't hit him on the head, you make it sound like I am striking him on the side of his face or the top of his head.
Secondly I don't 'hit' him at all, I give him a tap on his nose
Thirdly I haven't 'hit' him hundreds of times
Fourthly I have tried lots of corrective behaviour techniques and explained twice now about the one I have found that is most effective.

And giving him a smack/tap on the nose as I used to because he has nipped me or pulled my coat for the umpteenth time IS NOT the same as punching a horse four times and kicking it in the chest and to suggest it is comparable is totally erroneous.

You act like you can do no wrong criticising us mere mortals and looking down from your pedestal like you are God or something.
One thing I've never doubted is that you never stop learning with horses and those that think they know it all like you, I'm afraid usually don't.

 

[YorksG]

Firstly I don't hit him on the head, you make it sound like I am striking him on the side of his face or the top of his head.
Secondly I don't 'hit' him at all, I give him a tap on his nose
Thirdly I haven't 'hit' him hundreds of times
Fourthly I have tried lots of corrective behaviour techniques and explained twice now about the one I have found that is most effective.

And giving him a smack/tap on the nose as I used to because he has nipped me or pulled my coat for the umpteenth time IS NOT the same as punching a horse four times and kicking it in the chest and to suggest it is comparable is totally erroneous.

You act like you can do no wrong criticising us mere mortals and looking down from your pedestal like you are God or something.
One thing I've never doubted is that you never stop learning with horses and those that think they know it all like you, I'm afraid usually don't.

Surely you have told us that you have struck your horse on the nose? If you are now debating the level of force behind the strike, then this is a whole other level. Who is to decide what level of force is acceptable, in any given situation?

 

[Asha]

Sabs can be very intimidating . I dont hunt, never have but did go to watch what it was all about. I had my first and last interaction with them. I can assure you they are very intimidating. I can imagine if i was alone on the side of the road with young children and was being watched / filmed etc by them i too would panic. ( im not saying the lady in question did as i wasnt there /dont know her and in no way where her actions right bla bla etc etc ) But i can understand why anyone would panic.
The 'sabs' i met drove a car at the hunt secretary in front of everyone. They then slashed tyres on all horseboxes. They where masked. On my home i bumped into them, and to stop anything getting out of hand filmed them. As by that point the ring leader was leaning over a fence swearing and threatening the hunt master. After this, they came over to me and my daughter and suggested hunting was as bad as them coming to my home with their pit bulls and letting them eat my cats....

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Firstly I don't hit him on the head,

.

Hand on heart the only consistent thing that I have found that works after the 100th time of smacking his nose or telling him in a gruff voice "NO!" is when he goes to bite/chew something and then decides not to. You can see him working out the pros and cons in his mind and he goes to mouth something or bite something/someone and then decides against it.

............................................

This past fortnight I have rarely had him try to chew/bite anything which is progress. .

I rest my case.

How long have you had him? How many weeks did you persevere with trying to stop the habit through physical punishment? Poor horse!

 

[YorksG]

Which action do people think is most likely to cause a horse to become headshy? One occasion, that we are aware of, or being hit in the face or a hundred times on the muzzle,over a matter of weeks?

 

[tristar]

Do you think a horse and it's handler should be equal? Would still be interested to know how you'd deal with the scenarios I brought up a few posts back![/QUOTE

sometimes i say to a horse oh go on its fine, and sometimes a horse says to me, come on its fine.
i have one who will be a bit interfering in a head shaking way in the field, so i turn towards him and stamp my foot, to which he nearly has heart failure then dodges away, then a few moments later comes up quietly for a chat, and reading all this i thought what i was doing is just what a stallion or dominant mare might do, so his reaction is spot on, ie he understands
i might add he ran wild for 4 years on his own, except for goats, until 6 months ago

 

[AmyMay]

I'm not saying I agree with this line of thinking, but I agree with the previous posters who have said that they think her defense barrister will use this argument, that she felt intimidated by sabs who were masked and filming her and her children, and she acted out of panic/distress or whatever you want to call it, trying to get out of there as quickly as possible.

Yes I think that’s exactly what will happen. I guess my question was to counter that, especially where the child was concerned. It’s what I’d ask as the prosecutor.

 

[Quigleyandme]

Hunt sabs, as opposed to hunt monitors can be vile. There are the ones who just make a lot of noise to confuse hounds and disrupt and there are the ones who think of themselves as some sort of SAS style militia. I’m old enough to recall when the local hunt was followed by a police helicopter during Saturday meets to protect the field against sabs. One puffed English mustard powder up my friend’s horse’s nose causing it a great deal of distress. These people dragged a disabled young man out of a car in central London because of a liberty and livelihood sticker. Dug up and stole the remains of an elderly woman whose family farmed Guinea pigs. Expressed their unbridled joy when a child was killed in a hunting accident and when a hunt supporter was decapitated by a gyrocopter there to disrupt and film a hunt. How long do you imagine you or I could film children in a playground whilst wearing a balaclava before we were arrested? When hunting no longer exists these crazy nihilists will turn their attention to other horse sports or maybe to us for just keeping horses “in captivity”.

 

[Birker2020]

? you conveniently skipped past @The Fuzzy Furry post as she has screenshot of you being a bully.

You were a horrible bully and nasty as applecart and hopscotch. Now as birker as soon as something doesn't go your way you claim to be be a victim of bullying and that you've never done anything wrong to anyone. Maybe instead of constantly derailing threads you could spend some time looking through the posting history of all three accounts to gain some perspective.

wow what a lovely person you are. Talk about toxic, you literally ooze vitrol from every orifice.

Of course if you can show me any examples of when I've been bullying towards others I'd very much like to see. But of course you never can, when questionned like the others I have asked to give me examples, none are ever forthcoming. I've never treated anyone the way you have treated me and your other little cronies.

 

[Birker2020]

It may not matter in your opinion but it could make every difference to her defence and the opinion of the jury.

Gosh you are living in cloud cuckoo land. She was filmed hitting a horse and being (imho) quite violent towards it. I would hazard a guess (not hard to imagine tbh) that the school don't want someone that can do that near any kids nor would any sensible parents. Nor in a volunteering role either. Now whether that is as a result of a meeting such as I described having taken place or whether it is as a result of the school being bought into direpute. What defence she has has got to be minimal. Unless she can prove they terminated her employment illegally or without justification (if it was terminated )

What happened to her being filmed by sabs won't figure.

Years ago when I was in my mid twenties a livery who I'd grown quite close to hacking out together lost her rag with her horse, jumped off it in the school and started beating it with a whip, like pounding it with the whip over and over -she was dragged off it by other liveries. She reckoned she'd had a nervous breakdown.

If someone had wanted to they could have made a whole lot of trouble for her as she was a foster carer at the time.

 

[milliepops]

the court case is not about her employment though??

 

[Gallop_Away]

Yes I think that’s exactly what will happen. I guess my question was to counter that, especially where the child was concerned. It’s what I’d ask as the prosecutor.

I think it will be a very interesting case to watch unfold regardless of your feelings on the matter.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Gosh you are living in cloud cuckoo land. She was filmed hitting a horse and being (imho) quite violent towards it. I would hazard a guess (not hard to imagine tbh) that the school don't want someone that can do that near any kids nor would any sensible parents. Nor in a volunteering role either. Now whether that is as a result of a meeting such as I described having taken place or whether it is as a result of the school being bought into direpute. What defence she has has got to be minimal. Unless she can prove they terminated her employment illegally or without justification (if it was terminated )

What happened to her being filmed by sabs won't figure.

Years ago when I was in my mid twenties a livery who I'd grown quite close to hacking out together lost her rag with her horse, jumped off it in the school and started beating it with a whip, like pounding it with the whip over and over -she was dragged off it by other liveries. She reckoned she'd had a nervous breakdown.

If someone had wanted to they could have made a whole lot of trouble for her as she was a foster carer at the time.

I'm sorry have you been a "minute taker" in a similar court room case to? ?
Wind your neck in. I'm entitled to give my opinion on the matter exactly the same as you.
Where also have I mentioned the school or an employment tribunal? I am talking about the upcoming prosecution case by the RSPCA.

 

[Birker2020]

the court case is not about her employment though??

No and it won't be allowed to be mentioned and if the case goes ahead I expect the case will be heard in an area away from her locality due to public feeling on the matter. The jury may be asked to disregard what they know of her to date.

 

[milliepops]

wow what a lovely person you are. Talk about toxic, you literally ooze vitrol from every orifice.

I do have to counter this, TPO is actually a tremendously kind and generous person and i think quite a few of us on this forum have been on the receiving end of her thoughtfulness.
I think it would be better if you stepped away from this thread Birker for your own sake, it's just becoming a bit of a circus now.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm sorry have you been a "minute taker" in a similar court room case to? ?
Wind your neck in. I'm entitled to give my opinion on the matter exactly the same as you.

Misquoted again I see. I never said I minute took at Crown Court but neither have you. 'Wind your neck in' what a totally lovely and charming way to speak to someone

I used to minute take at Position of Trust meetings where referrals were made iwhen it met the harm threshold and it was alleged that the person who worked with children has behaved in a way that had harmed a child, or may have harmed a child; possibly committed a criminal offence against or related to a child; or behaved towards a child or children in a way that indicates they may pose a risk of harm to children. Also in addition to that if an allegation arose about a member of staff, outside of their work with children, and this may have presented as a risk of harm/risk of children for whom the member of staff is responsible through their employment/volunteering the we would investigate that.

I used to convene the meetings and invite all the relevant agencies and then minute take.

Yes you can give your opinion and your opinion is worth as much as mine. I didn't say otherwise. But her defence won't be anything about sabs. If anything she will try and minimise her involvement in hunting I would have thought as I expect most people that form a jury I would have thought would be anti hunt.

 

[Birker2020]

I do have to counter this, TPO is actually a tremendously kind and generous person and i think quite a few of us on this forum have been on the receiving end of her thoughtfulness.
I think it would be better if you stepped away from this thread Birker for your own sake, it's just becoming a bit of a circus now.

Whatever

 

[Gallop_Away]

Birker you really do need to take a deep breath and step away from the thread.....

I replied to you with the same patronising tone in which you replied to me.
Unless you have been privy to this woman's meetings with her barrister you can not categorically state what her defence will be or tell me my opinion on the matter is wrong.
I have stated what I *think* her defence will be. Who are you to tell me I am wrong? By all means hold a different opinion but the way you shout those down who hold a different view to you is rude and undermines your point.

 

[milliepops]

OK well i guess we can look forward to another 19 pages of tit for tat. At some point it might pay to accept that we can't all have the last word.

 

[Birker2020]

Birker you really do need to take a deep breath and step away from the thread.....

 

[Birker2020]

OK well i guess we can look forward to another 19 pages of tit for tat. At some point it might pay to accept that we can't all have the last word.

Sorry but its a forum.

I've been insulted on here left right and centre and accused of God only knows what that no one can back up. And you want me to back off?? How does that work exactly?

Oh I forgot I'm a bully (apparently).

 

[milliepops]

I don't give the smallest toss whether you back off or not, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.
I am not trying to add fuel to the fire, but to stop you from self combusting tbh. It appears that you're getting really personally involved and i can only see this either getting even worse or the thread being locked.

On another thread TFC said it was unlikely that each side would change the other's mind, this feels similar.. sometimes it's better to save your breath, that's all.

 

[Birker2020]

I don't give the smallest toss whether you back off or not, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.
I am not trying to add fuel to the fire, but to stop you from self combusting tbh. It appears that you're getting really personally involved and i can only see this either getting even worse or the thread being locked.

On another thread TFC said it was unlikely that each side would change the other's mind, this feels similar.. sometimes it's better to save your breath, that's all.

Well its nice to think someone gives a damn about the state of my mental health after all these nasty comments and unfounded allegations about being a bully and hitting my horse over the head a few hundred times have been said, that's if its a genuine concern.

I just think we should all be kinder to each other, I would never dream of saying the stuff people have said to me in the last two dozen posts especially without any proof. And saying poor horse about the horse I have hit a few hundred times. I'm sorry but I've not HIT him a FEW HUNDRED TIMES. He has has a smack when he has bitten me, yes. PAS stop making up lies please!!

 

[Gallop_Away]

Well its nice to think someone gives a damn about the state of my mental health after all these nasty comments and unfounded allegations about being a bully and hitting my horse over the head a few hundred times have been said, that's if its a genuine concern.

I just think we should all be kinder to each other, I would never dream of saying the stuff people have said to me in the last two dozen posts especially without any proof. And saying poor horse about the horse I have hit a few hundred times. I'm sorry but I've not HIT him a FEW HUNDRED TIMES. He has has a smack when he has bitten me, yes. PAS stop making up lies please!!

A lot of which you have brought on yourself sadly, but you refuse to see that. Milliepops is right. For your own wellbeing take a step back

 

[Forum Admin Team]

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